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All across the Great Western territory => Buses and other ways to travel => Topic started by: infoman on August 10, 2022, 08:34:16 am



Title: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: infoman on August 10, 2022, 08:34:16 am
Experienced it for the first time a couple of days ago,its okay,but I wish there was another "tap out" point.

Some passengers were having a problem with not being able to tap out (for what ever reason).

A queue then built up with approx six passngers trying to get off as well trying to "tap out"


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: bobm on August 10, 2022, 09:59:21 am
Not sure if it is the same system as in Swindon, but here if there are issues with tapping out on the usual reader you can also use the one in the driver's cab where you tapped in.


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 10, 2022, 05:16:45 pm
I didn't know Bristol even had tap in, tap out. I see it was introduced on 17 July. As the last time I took a bus was in February, I presume that means July this year – but maybe not!
https://www.firstbus.co.uk/bristol-bath-and-west/tickets/new-tickets-more-choice/tap-tap

Shame it doesn't work for three-stop hops. As the WsM and WoE fares differ by distance or zone, it seems the system does know where you're tapping in and out, so is there a reason for excluding the three-stop hop?


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: Red Squirrel on August 10, 2022, 05:41:55 pm
Yes, July 2022. I've used it and it worked OK. Slightly oddly, it seems to charge you an initial 10p and then sort out the true fare later.

It does seem odd that it can't work out that you've done a 3-stop hop, though I presume they have their reasons... also it doesn't cater for children or young adults.


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 10, 2022, 06:04:46 pm
I can understand that it can't differentiate between children and adults, as it doesn't know who's holding the card. The bank presumably knows the age of the card's owner but probably won't divulge it to third parties and in any case can't confirm that a card registered to Mr R. Squirrel was not actually being used by Master Kit Squirrel, or vice versa.


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 10, 2022, 06:12:02 pm
It does seem odd that it can't work out that you've done a 3-stop hop, though I presume they have their reasons...
Borrowing an extremely cynical hat from other parts of the forum: people who know the system and know where they're going will ask the driver for a 3-stop hop. Others will be content to suck up the 90p for the convenience of tapping in and out. People making irregular short trips are less likely to hit the £5.30 daily cap, so the effective average price per user is raised.


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: Red Squirrel on August 10, 2022, 11:02:33 pm
I can understand that it can't differentiate between children and adults, as it doesn't know who's holding the card. The bank presumably knows the age of the card's owner but probably won't divulge it to third parties and in any case can't confirm that a card registered to Mr R. Squirrel was not actually being used by Master Kit Squirrel, or vice versa.

Yes; First would have to set up a system where users registered a card and then declared themself to be a student, child or other concession. Which is sort of what TfL do, isn't it? I can see that First may not want the added complication of this, but I wonder if the benefits of making buses easier for young people to use (and maybe gaining lifelong passengers) might outweigh these costs?


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 11, 2022, 08:16:51 am
I thought TfL simply didn't charge children? Maybe it's changed, haven't been to London for a while.


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: TonyK on August 15, 2022, 09:03:14 pm
And after years of saying what a good idea tap-in-tap-out would be for Bristol, it has finally arrived, but I won't be using it. My days of paying for bus travel are behind me, and I now refuse to out before 9.30.


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: bobm on August 15, 2022, 11:34:03 pm
Refuse to go out or just not up by 9.30?  ;D


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: infoman on August 16, 2022, 05:00:56 am
If your in Cornwall,bus pass's are valid from first thing in the morning 24/7


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: TonyK on August 16, 2022, 11:37:10 am
If your in Cornwall,bus pass's are valid from first thing in the morning 24/7

Sadly, not in Devon yet, and won't be if I visit Bristol. Plus, you still need a bus.


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: Ralph Ayres on August 17, 2022, 12:13:31 am
I can understand that it can't differentiate between children and adults, as it doesn't know who's holding the card. The bank presumably knows the age of the card's owner but probably won't divulge it to third parties and in any case can't confirm that a card registered to Mr R. Squirrel was not actually being used by Master Kit Squirrel, or vice versa.

Yes; First would have to set up a system where users registered a card and then declared themself to be a student, child or other concession. Which is sort of what TfL do, isn't it? I can see that First may not want the added complication of this, but I wonder if the benefits of making buses easier for young people to use (and maybe gaining lifelong passengers) might outweigh these costs?

TfL don't do discounts on bank card travel, only on Oyster. For security and data protection the processing that works out what fares to charge for a day or week's travel on a bank card (or phone etc) is kept entirely separate from the bit that is eventually told to bill the passenger's bank account for that travel.  The fare bit deliberately has no way of knowing who the person is and so can't charge for a child or for having a Railcard.  They're working towards possibly doing something to link the two in a secure way but there may well end up being just too many hoops to jump through.  Rather more likely is some form of virtual card on a phone, holding any discount entitlement, that could then be linked to a bank account for billing.


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: TonyK on August 17, 2022, 09:06:58 pm


TfL don't do discounts on bank card travel, only on Oyster.

I think they do - try looking at the TfL fare finder (https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-finder). I chose randomly, picking Euston station to liverpool Street station. An adult single fare is £6.30 cash, but "only" £2.50 by Oyster OR contactless card.


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: Alan Pettitt on August 17, 2022, 09:26:15 pm
I think the Oyster discounts referred to are things like adding a railcard to your Oyster for the discount.


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: Ralph Ayres on August 17, 2022, 10:20:23 pm
I think the Oyster discounts referred to are things like adding a railcard to your Oyster for the discount.
Correct. If you select any discount on the TfL Single fare finder it labels the result only as Oyster, whereas a full adult also shows Contactless.


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: TonyK on August 18, 2022, 11:10:14 pm
Ah - I get it.


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: Mark A on August 27, 2022, 03:41:43 pm
Tapping in and out aside, the card reader on the pillar next to the door. Anyone else think its placement is a bit iffy as thats actually intended as a handhold?

To add to this, the rather aggressive edge to the rigid pinky purple plastic notice that wraps round the card reader is a bit of a meat slicer even before the bus driver has to do an emergency stop etc.

If you're fortunate enough to board one of those smaller Optare buses and there's someone sitting in the sideways seat at the front nearest the card reader, do admire the position of their head relative to the well supported plastic blade.

All fittings on the bus with rounded edges, and then someone adds this...

Mark


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: TonyK on August 27, 2022, 05:16:45 pm
First, though, you need a bus. While the Bristol mayor is working out his lame duck period, drawing fantasy underground lines in crayon on local maps, First Bus and another of the local mayors are busy cutting the existing services, according to the Bristol Post (https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/anger-over-plans-axe-18-7517381).

Quote
Anger over plans to axe 18 Bristol bus services amid driver shortage
One Bristol Live reader said: "Oh for the good old days when all these different services did not exist."

(https://i2-prod.bristolpost.co.uk/incoming/article7320565.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/1_MYR_BRI_230718FirstBus_02.jpg)
Bristol bus services set for the chop (Image: Bristol Post)

People across Bristol face frustration after West of England mayor Dan Norris revealed 18 bus services in the area set to be axed from October.

The long-feared announcement of which buses will be cut is expected officially next week following a major network review over the summer, but the metro mayor has now named the 11 commercial and seven subsidised routes which he says will be scrapped.

The article continues at source, with First saying they can't say anything until they have finished the consultation, but a lack of drivers is apparently to blame. The Post's commitment to "Quality with a Capital K" journalism is evident, with no expense incurred in trawling the internet for comments by agry locals. The article adds:

Quote
The commercial services proposed to be cut are: the No 5 Downend to Bristol, No 22 University of Bath to Twerton, No 41 Lawrence Hill to Bristol, No 42 Odd Down park and ride to Bath’s Royal United Hospital, No 72/72A Temple Meads to UWE Frenchay, No 171/172 Paulton to Bath, the X2 Bristol to Yatton, X5 (in part) Bristol to Weston via Portishead, Y3 Yate to Bristol, Y4 Yate to Bristol and the Y5 Chipping Sodbury to Bristol.

The subsidised, or “supported”, buses set for the chop or changes are the No 11 Bathampton to Bath, No 12 Haycombe Cemetery to Bath, No 20 University of Bath to Twerton, No 36 Bristol to Annes which will be extended to Brislington but with the loss of Wick Road, No 82 Paulton to Radstock (Tyning), No 96 Hengrove to Brislington and No 178 Radstock to Bristol. Mr Norris says there will be a new No 47 covering Yate, Bristol and Downend and a new 379 serving Paulton, Bath, Midsomer Norton, Radstock and Bristol.

Marvin might doodle and dream of mass transit, but the reality seems to be transit mess.


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 27, 2022, 09:12:48 pm
TBF nearly every bus does seem to carry an advert along the lines of "If you'd like a job where you sit down and chat to people, come and be a bus driver." I guess we're all just so antisocial nowadays...  ::)


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: TonyK on August 28, 2022, 09:39:14 am
TBF nearly every bus does seem to carry an advert along the lines of "If you'd like a job where you sit down and chat to people, come and be a bus driver." I guess we're all just so antisocial nowadays...  ::)

The bus drivers with HGV on their licence who wanted to work with people seem to have been attracted back to driving lorries by the increased pay being offered by hauliers, in particular store chains, and the fact that their cargo doesn't insult or attack them.

It isn't just buses. I recently signed up to a local service, part of a national franchise. The first email I got was the standard "Welcome, our local team will be in touch soon". The second was "We are hiring in your local area".


Title: Re: tap in tap out on Bristol bus's problem
Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 29, 2022, 11:19:59 am
Yep. I know someone who, having been a kitchen fitter for a firm that went bust during the pandemic, took an HGV course a few months ago and is now doing agency work in the Midlands for one of the big parcel firms, earning far more than he ever did fitting kitchens.



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