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Title: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: grahame on August 17, 2022, 16:29:06 From The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/17/grant-shapps-bike-licence-plates-proposal-a-strange-and-pointless-idea)
Quote Transport groups and opposition parties have reacted with bafflement to a proposal by Grant Shapps to look at mandatory insurance and registration for cyclists, something previously rejected by the Department for Transport (DfT) as impractical and counter-productive. In an interview with the Daily Mail that appeared to surprise his own officials, the transport secretary said he “absolutely” wanted to extend speed limits to cyclists, adding: “I see no reason why cyclists should break the road laws and be able to get away with it.” He added: “That obviously does then lead you into the question of, well, how are you going to recognise the cyclist, do you need registration plates and insurance and that sort of thing? So I’m proposing there should be a review of insurance and how you actually track cyclists who do break the laws.” I can't say I'm surprised. It must be deeply frustrating for The Government that they haven't been able to tax or gain much income from fining cyclists ... Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 17, 2022, 16:38:20 I refer to my post in the "£2 bus fare" thread:
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=26638.msg324784#msg324784 Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: CyclingSid on August 18, 2022, 06:53:41 The administrative costs will probably out weigh what ever income they might get.
Railway staff, cyclists, I wonder who is next on Shapps' hit list. I am pretty sure it won't be motorists. Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: Marlburian on August 18, 2022, 09:11:09 This Guardian article (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/17/cyclists-grant-shapps-culture-wars?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other) puts things into a sort of perspective. I suspect that the Daily Mail , long seen as hostile to cyclists, distorted the facts.
The story led to a long thread on my Nextdoor neighbourhood forum. Complaints about the perceived antics of cyclists and e-scooterists feature frequently, but this time there were many posts about the impracticability of the suggestion. The incident adds to the impression of a vacuum within Government, with its leader demob happy and on another holiday (couldn't he have waited three weeks) and many of his Ministers engaged in the protracted contest for his successor. Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: TaplowGreen on August 18, 2022, 09:31:18 I think these sorts of proposals inevitably descend pretty rapidly into motorist v cyclist which is quite possibly the most pointless debate on the planet as neither side is prepared to acknowledge their own shortcomings or give an inch, and both are convinced of their own virtues and righteousness.
I can see the argument for compulsory helmet wearing for cyclists and as a cyclist I support it - the benefits are proven scientifically and medically - however number plates and registration for cyclists? Really? Can I have TG1? ::) Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: ChrisB on August 18, 2022, 09:53:06 Needed if insurance is required to enable claims to be made against said insurance.
Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: Mark A on August 18, 2022, 10:58:31 It's another dead cat distraction deploying one off the list of the target audience's hate groups. In a sane country this would be subject to a jolly good ignoring from the rest of the media.
Mark Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: JayMac on August 18, 2022, 14:57:43 Cyclist insurance is actually a wise investment- as protection against the costs resulting from injury to oneself, damage to the bicycle, or theft. Injury and damage can be as a result of accidents not involving other road users. And even when another insured road user is involved, having your own insurance for injury and/or cycle damage can be useful.
Compulsory registration and third party liabilty though? Bonkers idea. Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 18, 2022, 17:45:46 AIUI third party liability is often included in household insurance.
Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: TaplowGreen on August 18, 2022, 18:02:02 AIUI third party liability is often included in household insurance. I think you may find that provides cover in the event of someone having an accident and being injured in your home, or if their belongings are damaged in your home, not in the event that you (potentially, for example) clobber a pedestrian on your pushbike 20 miles away. Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: eXPassenger on August 18, 2022, 18:50:07 AIUI third party liability is often included in household insurance. I think you may find that provides cover in the event of someone having an accident and being injured in your home, or if their belongings are damaged in your home, not in the event that you (potentially, for example) clobber a pedestrian on your pushbike 20 miles away. My AXA Home Insurance policy states that it covers 'the private pursuits of you and your family'. It specifically excludes vehicles or crafts. From this I believe I have third party cover when cycling. Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: JayMac on August 18, 2022, 19:34:58 If Mr Shapps is adamant he's continuing down this particular rabbit hole then perhaps he should consider registration and insurance for mobility scooter users too?
BBC News - Boy, 3, hit by mobility scooter and taken to hospital https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-62592184 Roller blades/skates? Heelies? Jogging/Running? All have the potential for collisions with third parties causing injury. Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: JayMac on August 18, 2022, 19:46:16 It's also worth noting that the only country on the planet that requires registration and number plates for bicycles is that bastion of freedom and democracy, North Korea...
A great example to follow, Kim Jong Shapps. Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 18, 2022, 19:48:36 In Kafka's Trial, the document used by K to prove his identity is described as a bicycle licence, but it's not clear whether this is a licence to own or to ride a bicycle. Not that the difference matters in the context.
Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: Robin Summerhill on August 18, 2022, 19:55:56 It's another dead cat distraction deploying one off the list of the target audience's hate groups. In a sane country this would be subject to a jolly good ignoring from the rest of the media. Mark I also think that there is an unfortunate tendency by politicians in general, and Grant Shpps in particular, to aim for headline-grabbing withouy bothering tothink these "polices" through. In this particular case, obvious practical problems are: • When one branch of government is people to walk and cycle to get fitter and save the NHS some money, and also to help with pollution and global warming, now is hardly the time to put obstacles in they of cycling • There are no age limits on cycling, and some are ridden by children below the age if criminal responsibility • Cycles are not fitted with speedometers, and to legislate for retro-fitting would be more than is required for older cars under current legislation Meanwhile, other headline-grabbing howlers have included- • Use agency workers to break strikes. Will all agency workers who sign the road from Euston to Preston. Liverpool and Manchester, or are signalling competent, please form an orderly queue. You can gather in that phone box over there... • Why can’t maintenance workers in St Pancras walk over to Kings cross to work over there? They’re all maintenance workers, after all! Good idea – we could do the same with politicians – why not just install Kier Starmer as PM? He’s a politician too, you know... Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: broadgage on August 18, 2022, 21:58:34 It is in the nature of the administration industry to look for new things to tax, regulate, control and legislate about. Think of the extra employment for civil servants.
I would prefer that they concentrate on motor vehicles, increasing numbers of which are not paying what they should. Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: CyclingSid on August 19, 2022, 06:58:27 On the media yesterday (sorry source forgotten) they estimate there are a million vehicles being driven round without insurance, and that is not bicycles.
Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: grahame on August 19, 2022, 08:31:09 Quote It's the "silly season" with suggestions for registration of bicycles (or is that cyclists?) without any age limit suggested - so your 11 year old will need some sort of governmental involvement (and, hey, that's a potential tax charge). Suggestion is that this will help ensure that the number of serious accidents caused by cyclists will be reduced; problem is that there are very, very few such accidents and the cost of enforcement would far outweigh the benefits, and would divert limited resources from the policing of motor vehicles which have a far higher "damage rate". So - where has the suggestion come from - why from Grant Shapps, who's in charge of the Department for Transport; I rather ask if he's floating this and other ideas to enhance his visibility as a minister to Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss, with the intent of strengthening his case for a significant role in their new governments. Registration, taxation, insurance of pushbikes is a bad idea - as I suspect is the suggestion of MOT tests for them, cycling exams before people are allowed out onto the road, etc; they are solutions looking for problems - a look for something populist to adminsister, and amongst the stereotypical car driver it might be popular to punish and reduce the cyclists who get in their way. But it's also likely to put people off cycling - a green, clean, cheap, healthy and predominantly safe way of getting around - to save the bother and cost of running a bicycle, how many people would be driving local journeys instead? Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: broadgage on August 19, 2022, 09:28:49 On the media yesterday (sorry source forgotten) they estimate there are a million vehicles being driven round without insurance, and that is not bicycles. I have heard similar estimates. Consider also the widespread misuse of red diesel fuel, and the number of vehicles without road tax. And those who evade payment of congestion charges etc. Time in my view for a crackdown. In most cases the vehicle should be impounded, and destroyed if unroadworthy or worth less than £1,000. Unless there are strong extenuating circumstances, driving without insurance or road tax should result in a years driving ban. Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: Robin Summerhill on August 19, 2022, 15:41:49 I thought I noticed this thread locked when I looked in this morning. Am I going crackers or was it locked for a period of time? ???
Title: Re: Insurance and registration for cyclists? Post by: grahame on August 19, 2022, 15:46:53 I thought I noticed this thread locked when I looked in this morning. Am I going crackers or was it locked for a period of time? ??? Yes, it was locked for a period of time. I suspect that one of us who has permissions to be dangerous accidentally hit the "lock topic" button which is juicily close to some other more often used buttons .... in error. Someone sent me a message and I unlocked it. Rare happening but not the first time. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |