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All across the Great Western territory => Across the West => Topic started by: grahame on August 29, 2022, 20:43:55



Title: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: grahame on August 29, 2022, 20:43:55
Having closed my local railway station on - what - seven or eight days this summer, to the immense frustration of transport advocates trying to persuade new people to use the trains and buses, we find ourselves coming towards the end of the summer holidays, the opportunity passed, and no strikes planned in my diary.  Why is that?

I don't think it's because the various disputes have been resolved with compromise.  I don't think anyone has "won" or "lost". I don't think anyone has given up.  I do wonder if it's because there's lots of talking going on that has a real prospect of coming up with a solution, so there's a ceasefire in place to let that happen.  I wonder if there's a pause while the Tory leadership contest concludes, as there's no-one around at the moment who can make any government decisions.  Or has the strike left a significant hole in staff funds and their union leaders are giving them a chance to recover financially?

This is not just an idle ask - a marketing question - "can I rely on their being a train service here on 17th September?" - and I'm asking not just about a service timetabled, but one that actually operates.  Thoughts and educated guesses would be much appreciated.


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: Timmer on August 29, 2022, 21:56:59
This is not just an idle ask - a marketing question - "can I rely on their being a train service here on 17th September?" - and I'm asking not just about a service timetabled, but one that actually operates.  Thoughts and educated guesses would be much appreciated.
You’ll know the answer to that by the 3rd of September with 14 days notice required.

The London marathon is at the beginning of October. Could that be a juicy target on which to call a strike?


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: a-driver on August 30, 2022, 05:48:58
.  I wonder if there's a pause while the Tory leadership contest concludes, as there's no-one around at the moment who can make any government decisions. 

We were only talking this over the weekend and we all came to this conclusion.  Not only as there’s no-one around at the moment but also no one who can make decisions full stop!  Plus there’s the possibility that Grant Shapps may not be the Transport Secretary for very much longer!

Quote
Or has the strike left a significant hole in staff funds and their union leaders are giving them a chance to recover financially?

In short, No!  From my depot most are prepared for another year of strike action.  Most think the government will try to use the cost of living crisis to break the strikes.

Edit: fix quotes - Red Squirrel


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: ChrisB on August 30, 2022, 19:36:32
I would concur with the above post completely.

Waiting to see if Shapps loses his post & whether any replacement is going to agree to take part in the talks. No point in wasting members money striking when he's almost certainly losing his post. Just how quickly any new incumbent can get round a table though?

But if Shapps retains his post, you can expect fresh dates within the week of being confirmed!


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: ChrisB on August 31, 2022, 09:54:40
Spoke too soon! ::) ::)

From the TSSA website (https://www.tssa.org.uk/news-and-events/tssa-news/tssa-announces-24-hour-september-strike-across-railways)

Quote
TSSA announces 24-hour September strike across railways

Rail union TSSA will hold a country wide 24-hour strike next month in an escalation of the ongoing national rail dispute over pay, job security and conditions.

Staff at nine train operating companies (TOCs) as well as Network Rail (NR) will walkout from midday on Monday 26 until midday Tuesday 27 September.

The union remains in talks with NR about the possibility of a settlement. However General Secretary, Manuel Cortes, has written to both Transport Secretary, Grant Shapps, and bosses of Department for Transport (DfT) held train companies in recent days.

Cortes called for the government to allow TOCs to return to the negotiating table with a revised deal which improves on the insulting 2 per cent offer which was rejected earlier in the summer. 

The strike action will coincide with the Labour Party Conference, being held in Liverpool. As a Labour affiliated union TSSA will be looking for support from Conference delegates and MPs to join them on the picket line to show solidarity in fighting the Conservative’s cost of living crisis.

Commenting, TSSA union leader Manuel Cortes said: “The dead hand of Grant Shapps is sadly stopping DfT train operating companies from making a revised, meaningful offer. 

“Frankly, he either sits across the negotiating table with our union or gets out of the way to allow railway bosses to freely negotiate with us, as they have done in the past. 

“The reason for the current impasse lies squarely at Shapps’ door and passengers are paying a high price for his incompetence and intransigence.

"I welcome the fact that negotiations are ongoing with Network Rail and the gap towards a resolution is narrowing. Time will tell whether a deal can be done to avert our next strike.

"I will be standing on our picket line in Liverpool and will be encouraging fellow delegates and Labour MPs to do likewise, so they can rightly show they stand shoulder-to-shoulder with those fighting the Tories’ cost of living crisis."

*Last week hundreds of TSSA members at TransPennine Express and West Midlands Trains voted overwhelmingly for strike action. 

*TSSA members took strike action on 20 August in Network Rail General Grades (Bands 5-8) and Controllers, Avanti West Coast, c2c, CrossCountry, East Midlands Railway, Great Western Railway, LNER and Southeastern on 18 and 20 August. 

These companies would be at the centre of the strike on the 26th and  27th September, along with Network Rail.

Forgot about the Party conferences. I do suspect these might get targeted.


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: BBM on August 31, 2022, 16:10:07
From BBC News - Train drivers to strike again on 15 September:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62735147 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62735147)

It's an ASLEF strike which will affect 12 companies including GWR.


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: grahame on August 31, 2022, 16:36:48
From BBC News - Train drivers to strike again on 15 September:

from the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62735147)

It's an ASLEF strike which will affect 12 companies including GWR.



Ooh - the day of the Railfuture Annual Conference in Leeds. What a depressing Rail Future ... "a bigger better railway". I agree with their "better", not sure if it needs to be bigger if it can gain more through more efficient provision so it doesn't actually need to be bigger.

At the risk of lighting the bus touchpaper here, and of linking two stories that should not be linked, I bring you "Quiet Quitting" also from the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62638908)

Quote
What is quiet quitting?

Despite the name, it actually has nothing to do with quitting your job.

It means doing only what your job demands and nothing more. Quitting doing anything extra. You still show up for work, but stay strictly within the boundaries of your job requirements. So no more helping out with additional tasks or checking emails outside work hours.

Since the pandemic, an increasing number of young workers have grown tired of not getting the recognition and compensation for putting in extra hours. They're saying no to burnout, and instead focusing on work-life balance. The movement is centred around self-preservation and "acting your wage".


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: ChrisB on August 31, 2022, 16:49:22
From ASLEF (https://aslef.org.uk/news/train-drivers-strike-15th-september)

Quote
Train drivers to strike on 15th September

Train drivers at 12 operating companies will walk out on 15th September in a dispute over pay.

This follows two days of action - in July by members at seven companies, and August at nine companies - and very strong votes for industrial action in ballots across the companies.

Drivers will not book on for duty between 00:00 and 23:59 on Thursday 15th September 2022.

 
Companies affected

ASLEF members working for Avanti West Coast, Chiltern, Cross Country, Greater Anglia, Great Western Railways, Hull, LNER, London Overground, Northern, Southeastern, Transpennine Express and West Midlands Trains will be on strike on 15th September.

 
Why drivers are taking action

Most train drivers haven't had a pay increase since 2019.

When inflation goes up and pay doesn't, that's a real-terms pay cut.

Train drivers agree that every working person should be paid fairly and that pay should be increased to keep pace with inflation - many public sector workers deserve far more than their long-frozen pay amounts to.

Senior managers in our industry take home huge salaries; rail operators have paid dividends to their shareholders right through the pandemic, and the rolling stock companies (who own the trains and lease them back out) have made billions. The claim that there's no money left to pay rail workers properly is just not true.

During the pandemic, train drivers went out to work to keep the country moving. Rail helped other key workers get to work, and kept goods like food and medicines moving around the country.

And their press release (https://aslef.org.uk/publications/aslef-train-drivers-strike-again)

Quote
Train drivers who are members of ASLEF – the train drivers’ trade union which represents 96% of the train drivers in England, Scotland, and Wales – will walk out at 12 train operating companies on Thursday 15 September in a dispute over pay.

‘We regret that, once again, passengers are going to be inconvenienced,’ said Mick Whelan, ASLEF’s general secretary. ‘Because we don’t want to go on strike – withdrawing our labour, although a fundamental human right, is always a last resort for a trade union – but the train companies have forced our hand.

‘They want train drivers to take a real terms pay cut – to work just as hard this year as last, but for 10% less. Because inflation is now in double figures and heading higher – much higher, according to some forecasts – and yet the train companies have offered us nothing. And this for train drivers who kept Britain moving – key workers and goods around the country – throughout the pandemic and who have not had an increase in salary since 2019.

‘We want the companies – which are making big profits, and paying their chief executives enormous salaries and bonuses – to make a proper pay offer to help our members keep up with the increase in the cost of living. That’s why we are calling on the companies today to do the right thing – the decent thing – and come back to the negotiating table with an offer our members can accept.’

ASLEF members at 12 companies – Avanti West Coast; Chiltern Railways; CrossCountry; Greater Anglia; Great Western Railway; Hull Trains; LNER; London Overground; Northern Trains; Southeastern; TransPennine Express; and West Midlands Trains – will strike on 15 September.

We have already walked out for 24 hours on Saturday 30 July and on Saturday 13 August at those companies which have, so far, refused to do the right thing.

This year we have successfully concluded pay deals with nine companies: DB Cargo; Eurostar; Freightliner Heavy Haul; Freightliner Intermodal; GB Railfreight; Merseyrail; MTR Elizabeth line; PRE Metro Operations; and ScotRail.

We have multi-year deals already in place with several other companies.

We are in negotiations with Direct Rail Services and Transport for Wales.

And we have put an offer from the company to our members from Colas IM.



Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: grahame on September 02, 2022, 06:21:54
Here we go ... RMT on 15th and 17th September ... from the BBC ...



Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: grahame on September 02, 2022, 06:24:53
Here we go ... RMT on 15th and 17th September ... from the BBC ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62757431 ...

Quote
Rail workers will hold fresh strikes in a long-running dispute over pay, jobs and conditions, the RMT union has said.

It said 40,000 of its members who work at Network Rail and 14 train companies will walk out on 15 and 17 September.

The first day of these strikes coincides with a walkout by train drivers at 12 rail companies.

The Aslef union said the action by 9,000 of its members will be the biggest strike drivers have taken part in so far.

The RMT walkout follows six previous days of strike action by its members across June, July and August.

RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said union members had "no choice" but to continue striking.


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 16, 2022, 11:14:23
Next up...?

Well, you can expect both the RMT and ASLEF to heavily target the Tory conference at the beginning of October!


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: Mark A on September 16, 2022, 11:16:55
Credible Twitter *rumour*: ASLEF strikes 1st and 5th October. TOCs notified today to meet the 15 day notification condition, public announcement Tuesday.

Mark


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: Timmer on September 16, 2022, 12:15:56
Credible Twitter *rumour*: ASLEF strikes 1st and 5th October. TOCs notified today to meet the 15 day notification condition, public announcement Tuesday.

Mark
Sigh, sadly confirmed by David Horne MD of LNER.
https://twitter.com/davidhorne/status/1570724791900078083?s=21&t=A9J_Xh2JY5n7kDVz79Z5SQ

ASLEF may not be announcing it publicly until after the queen’s funeral but the news of new strike dates will spread very quickly. Could backfire on them not waiting until after the funeral before giving the required 14 days notice. I’m disappointed that they couldn’t have waited another few days.

Be interesting to see what the RMT do now who appeared very genuine given the situation when they suspended strike action last week.


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 16, 2022, 12:22:14
Be interesting to see what the RMT do now who appeared very genuine given the situation when they suspended strike action last week.

I'm hearing 3rd and 6th for RMT.  So the two combined will cover the whole of the conference if so.


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 16, 2022, 15:24:18
Be interesting to see what the RMT do now who appeared very genuine given the situation when they suspended strike action last week.

I'm hearing 3rd and 6th for RMT.  So the two combined will cover the whole of the conference if so.

Well, that'll really help the situation.


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: Timmer on September 16, 2022, 16:06:38
The train drivers strike on the 1st and 5th of October now being widely reported in the media including on the BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62923999

I wonder if that’s what ASLEF were expecting or did they think the TOCs would keep stum until after the queen’s funeral? Do they even care when people find out?



Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: Timmer on September 16, 2022, 16:10:32
RAIL magazine’s Philip Haigh reporting RMT planning to also strike on the 1st of October but doesn’t want operators taliking about it.
https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1570782162907172875?s=21&t=1CWfEYxUdErgZqEOtNbdQA


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 16, 2022, 16:31:35
The train drivers strike on the 1st and 5th of October now being widely reported in the media including on the BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62923999

I wonder if that’s what ASLEF were expecting or did they think the TOCs would keep stum until after the queen’s funeral? Do they even care when people find out?



London Marathon on 2 October too - if they want to lose public sympathy, that'll be a pretty good way of doing it.

TOCs quite right to provide as much notice to customers as possible.


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: Timmer on September 16, 2022, 17:47:02
TOC websites now showing the RMT will also strike on the 1st of October.


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 17, 2022, 08:48:29
Keen to get some expert advice on behalf of a friend who is tentatively planning a trip from London to Cornwall sometime between 1 and 7 October - if the RMT and ASLEF strikes go ahead on the dates flagged, is it realistically likely that the whole week will be disrupted to a greater or lesser extent?

He is slightly disabled and not really physically up to coping with rammed trains or short notice changes of plans.

Any advice appreciated


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: ChrisB on September 17, 2022, 17:13:04
You don't say how long for.....go on the 3rd, 4th or 7th and he'll be fine.


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: Timmer on September 17, 2022, 19:40:55
Best avoid the day after a strike as GWR tend to axe all the semifasts to/from the SW leaving the fasts to pick up the slack. Combine this with people not being able to travel the day before and you are left with some very busy trains.


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: LiskeardRich on September 17, 2022, 21:27:20
ASLEF 1st and 5th October. Won’t be announced until after mourning period ends, but train bosses have been notified under 14 days rule on Friday.

LNER have pulled all of their services out of booking search engines for those dates returning “no fares available” as per screen shot attached


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: froome on September 17, 2022, 21:29:16
I am going to ask a similar question to Taplow Green's. I am attending a conference in Yorkshire on the weekend of October 1st. Fortunately I had already decided to travel up there on the Thursday, so I'm not expecting any undue problems then. However, it had been my intention to then spend the next week from Monday to Thursday using a 4 in 8 day rover ticket to explore some of the area - I would probably use the NW explorer ticket as that includes as far east as Leeds, and would allow me to travel up to Cumbria which I wish to do. Obviously one of those days (the Wednesday) is now a strike day, but I could extend my stay by a day and use the ticket on the Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday, though I would have to travel back to Bath later on the Friday.

So I was wondering just how busy/delayed/cancelled trains are likely to be on the 4th and 6th, as I would wish to make full use of the ticket on those days if I could. Any advice appreciated.


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 18, 2022, 08:59:45
Best avoid the day after a strike as GWR tend to axe all the semifasts to/from the SW leaving the fasts to pick up the slack. Combine this with people not being able to travel the day before and you are left with some very busy trains.

Yes thanks for this (and to all those who have offered advice), with the RMT looking at 3rd and 6th October too perhaps the following weekend would be the best bet (8th?)


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: Mark A on September 18, 2022, 09:41:48
For the rail roving, would you continue to be based in Leeds? There's hopefully enough of a network available to you that you'll be able to work around any missing services to either side of the strike day.

The North West Rover, it's not in the National Rail website's list - but Northern list it on their site - so perhaps it's just that the National Rail compilers have slightly lost the plot with that gargantuan list of theirs...

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/rangers_and_rovers.aspx#N

Mark


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: froome on September 18, 2022, 11:47:48
For the rail roving, would you continue to be based in Leeds? There's hopefully enough of a network available to you that you'll be able to work around any missing services to either side of the strike day.

The North West Rover, it's not in the National Rail website's list - but Northern list it on their site - so perhaps it's just that the National Rail compilers have slightly lost the plot with that gargantuan list of theirs...

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/rangers_and_rovers.aspx#N

Mark

It is called Freedom of the North West. I lose track of what names each rover has now - they seem to change ever time I look at them! (and increase in number).

No I won't be based in Leeds, but will be nearby on the Monday morning. I was hoping to move around the north-west, so be based in different towns each night, but I'm quite flexible in my plans (to the extent that none of this might happen and I just return home from Leeds).

My guess is that services will be reasonably normal on the Tuesday apart from perhaps stopping early in the evening and being generally busier than normal (?) but that on Thursday there will be quite a bit of disruption. If that is the case, I can probably work around it, and accept that I wouldn't get as complete value from the rover ticket than I might have had otherwise.


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 18, 2022, 13:04:51
Yes thanks for this (and to all those who have offered advice), with the RMT looking at 3rd and 6th October too perhaps the following weekend would be the best bet (8th?)

It looks like my source for the RMT on 3rd October is probably wrong as they would have to give notice today, so perhaps they'll be a largely normal service on 3rd and 4th?


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: Timmer on September 18, 2022, 21:49:16
It looks like my source for the RMT on 3rd October is probably wrong as they would have to give notice today, so perhaps they'll be a largely normal service on 3rd and 4th?
I think it will all become clearer come Tuesday.


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 20, 2022, 14:27:13
Yes thanks for this (and to all those who have offered advice), with the RMT looking at 3rd and 6th October too perhaps the following weekend would be the best bet (8th?)

It looks like my source for the RMT on 3rd October is probably wrong as they would have to give notice today, so perhaps they'll be a largely normal service on 3rd and 4th?

RMT announce Strike on 1 October, ASLEF confirmed 1 & 5 October.

https://twitter.com/RMTunion/status/1572207856983674884?t=cJB0ndOYJKBLI99LMQHn4A&s=19


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 20, 2022, 14:57:21
AIUI they have to be careful to not be accused of co-ordinated action to cause the most disruption, so choosing the same day removes that risk I guess.


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: grahame on September 20, 2022, 15:01:49
Details on the BBC at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62969423 with analysis by Katy Austin:

Quote
We're now months in to this series of strikes. But Saturday 1 October is shaping up to be the biggest day of action yet to hit the railway, with members of multiple unions, including train drivers, taking action on the same day.

Talks have so far failed to produce agreements. The ongoing disputes appear deadlocked. Unions continue to push for a pay rise to help workers cope with high inflation, and the rail industry insisting "modernisations" must pay for any increase in wages because of the financial gap left by Covid.

It's still unclear how this impasse can be broken - although when it comes to the RMT, Network Rail has argued members should be allowed a vote on its latest offer.

If they go ahead, these will also be the first train strikes since Anne-Marie Trevelyan replaced Grant Shapps as Transport Secretary.

She has already invited the general secretaries of Aslef, RMT and TSSA for meetings. This signals a desire to be seen to take a less adversarial approach than her predecessor. However, it doesn't mean the substance of the government's position has changed.


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: broadgage on September 20, 2022, 15:48:13
AIUI they have to be careful to not be accused of co-ordinated action to cause the most disruption, so choosing the same day removes that risk I guess.

AFAIK, nothing prohibits trade unions from coordinating strike action.
What IS prohibited is sympathetic strike action whereby trades unions who are not in dispute, refuse to do certain work in order to help support other disputes.

The classic example was rail workers refusing to handle coal trains, NOT because said rail workers were in dispute, but to support the coal miners who were in dispute.
Or Royal mail workers refusing to handle post for Grunwick, a film developing firm involved in a dispute.

Such cases used to be common but are now prohibited.


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 20, 2022, 15:57:26
BBC leading on the impact on the London Marathon if strikes go ahead on 1 October

BBC News - Train strikes could impact the London Marathon
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62969423


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 20, 2022, 16:03:21
AFAIK, nothing prohibits trade unions from coordinating strike action.

Yes, I think you’re right having done some more research.  Though ASLEF seem to think it’s not allowed:

https://www.workersliberty.org/blogs/2022-07-12/aslef-drivers-vote-strikes-now-name-coordinated-action


Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: Marlburian on October 02, 2022, 18:31:41
It seems that TASS is having its own strike on GWR services on Thursday, October 6 ("strike action by TSSA managers and office staff only"). The National Rail website advises that "an extremely limited service will operate. Services will start at 07:30 and all journeys must be completed before 18:30" - and promises a timetable update  today, Sunday.

No doubt TASS members are important, even vital, workers in the rail industry, but is their action really going to have such an impact? I wonder if someone has merely copied the warning previously posted for days when ASLEF members are on strike.

(A friend is flying in from Poland the day before and is due to visit me on Thursday and I'm wondering whether to advise her to endure the Waterloo-Reading service - I'm waiting to see what the updated timetable is like.)



Title: Re: Wot - no more strikes in my diary?
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 02, 2022, 18:38:42
TSSA members staff the control office, so that’s why action by them can have a big impact still as there needs to be control staff.



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