Great Western Coffee Shop

Gather 166's A/C is failing as the temperature rises.

Does any one jnow if the mods done to 166 201 worked? I've not yet trvelled on it since modification.

I travelled on it at least 2 or 3 times last summer (this was definitely after the mods which I believe were done about a year or so ago) and it was noticably cooler than other 166 units. I was always very happy to see it in the platform at Paddington! (although I was even happier when my train home was a 165 with opening windows!) Presumably when the Turbos get their forthcoming heavy refurbishment the 166s will get better A/C? Will the 165s also get A/C? I think the Chiltern 165s have it?

if you think 166's are bad spare a thought for the people who have to endure the west 158 fleet,crap a/c and only 4 opening windows per carriage.

And most didn't have the faults fixed by Wabtec Bodgers!

Chiltern sensible sealed up the windows when they added a/c to their Thames Turbos.

I really get annoyed when people open windows on Thames Turbos - the air con can't work if you do this!

It even says it on a sticker. ::)

???

Maybe if the aircon was not broken half the time then they wouldnt need to

Or maybe if a 165 did not look so similar to a 166 (to the average punter who thinks I am a spotter) they would not automatically assume the train they were on had no air con therefore the only air they had was the windows!
 ???

no offense wabtec maybe bodgers but they are not contracted to fix a/c that is meant to be done at spm by depot bodgers

It always 'seemed' like the unit refresh was to include a mechanical overhall according to the bumf FGW produced..... But..... I really dont think this has happened, check the 153 fleet, look good, but still have all the same mechanical faults... Half a job!

I tend to avoid the 166's (if possible) as the air con just seems to pull in the exhaust fumes without cooling it at all.

166 201 was definately better though last year, but I've not discovered if it's still cool now.

Ah fair enough - but whoever should be 'bodging' it - I wish they would get on with it!

As far as I can see FGW have little or no interest in the Thames Valley local services as the 165 / 166 have only to stay in service until 2017 when Crossrail is supposed to be in operation

But that is 9 years away - more than the life of a typical franchise. And of course, chances are it won't come in until nearer 2020.

FGW have previously raised the possibility of Crossrail enabling a cascade of Turbos west, to displace Class 143 and Class 15x units on cross-Bristol services.

They can keep them in Thames Valley, they are awful units, a pacer beats them.

No, really it does not.

I would prefer a turbo to a pacer anyday

Fine then, we'll take 4 car 142's on our branchlines and you can have 2-car turbo's for Devon local services.
Turbo's are horrible.

Turbos are far more suited to commuter work (unlike pacers)

*Wider body meaning wider 2+3 seats
*doors at 1/3 and 2/3 intervals
*faster acceleration/top speed
*better suspension

Meaning they will never be cleared for any work outside Thames Valley.

And they don't couple with anything except themsleves.

they can couple quite happily with other units so long as they have bsi autocouplers,i.e all our west fleet.

AFAIK, turbo's were made with non standard couplers to prevent them bein reused by other BR sectors.

http://rpm-railpics.fotopic.net/p22713130.html

Looks like a BSI coupler to me.

Surely any former broad gauge line will take them

St. Ives?

thats because they are,maybe they have since been modded?

i have seen chiltern units coupled to the 168's and also thames link as they once were coupled to central's units some time back.

FGW seem confident that they will be at some point....

Anywhere built to a broad gauge could technically take a 165 or 166, later developments could have restricted the possibilities of doing so but I daresay it's all rectifiable.

158's aren't even passed for st Ives, well, they are but they're not allowed into the branch bay platform at St Erth, 165/166's are crap but they are slightly better than 14's, they would be a lot better if they were to come to the West region if they replaced the seating with 2+2.

142029 is currently at Reading Depot so maybe we are doing a swap  ;D lol

We are supposedly giving Reading one 142 to cover Turbo refurbishment, don't think it will end up happening though.

Its there for a transmission change.....

Still amazes me that no West depot is capable of heavy maintenance!

FGW Turbos and Chiltern's 165s and 168s will all happily couple to each other - if Chiltern have to run through to and from Paddington via Oxford, when their route is shut, then their sets are coupled to FGW workings to/from London to avoid taking up extra paths on the GW main line. But you can't couple a 168 to other Turbostars of the 17X varieties.

The 165/166 sets are cleared for the Thames Valley routes and out to Hereford, but are also approved to work up to Birmingham Snow Hill via Kidderminster and Stourbridge Junction (originally broad gauge Oxford Worcester and Wolverhampton Railway).

When Turbos were launched, BR did run an experimental service - one train out in the morning and back in the evening Birmingham-London, I think, via the Cotswold Line - I suppose a kind of precursor of Chiltern's Kidderminster services today. I did once do Stourbridge Jct-London and back on this service but it wasn't exactly busy to/from Worcester, so not surprising it got dropped.

they all have BSI couplers so i cannot see any reason why a 168 cannot couple to a 170?

Software issues

168s are a combination of Turbos and Turbostars - different version have cabs off different ones.

So, I would think they can couple to 170s - they pretty much are 170s (more Turbostar than Turbo)!

As swlines states, the (needless!) computer doesn't agree with each other.

They can couple mechanically but cannot couple and provide through working/wiring due to incompatibilities between units.

>:( ??? >:(

By that I mean, they can couple perfectly fine, but trying to get them to move off at full speed won't happen - think max speed is 15mph for mechanical coupling on the 170s

I recall that too - if my memory serves me right it only ran on Saturdays but I think it ran London to Birmingham and back, and during the day the unit (which was booked to be a 166) was used on Snow Hill to Stratford-on-Avon services alongside the more usual 150s. However I'm happy to be corrected - maybe a second unit was used for this in addition to the Birmingham-London return journey?

Definitely ran weekdays too, as I was working permanent Saturdays at the time, so couldn't have used it if it was an Sat only working.

Just came across the following exchange about 165/166 facelift in the minutes of the FGW east area customer panel meeting last month, which I thought might be of interest to all you Turbo fans out there...

Peter Caplehorn, member for Gatwick Airport to Shalford (PC) requested more detail on the specific work within the LTV stock refresh, stressing that temperature fluctuations are common and must be looked at.
Tom Stables, FGW Commercial Director (TS) explained that FGW is reviewing all aspects of the 16X fleet, for example
^   Seating capacity
^   First Class? For example, 166 needs it but does the 165?
^   Information provision on board
^   Air conditioning and cooling ^ 166 has air conditioning but does not work so being addressed.
^   Additional disabled seating
PC asked for the seating to be replaced and assess how more luggage space can be put on the Gatwick services.

Theres a good reason for that.

Up to Birmingham it is a fast intercity service

Fro Birmingham to Worcester it stopped almost as often as the central stopper train!

Of the total journey time, a good portion was spent just getting as far as Birmingham

There was no incentive to use the Chiltern service beyond Birmingham

I wasn't referring to the current Chiltern trains past Snow Hill - which were never going to be quick with all the Centro services using the route too - just the BR Turbo service back in the early 1990s, which started at Snow Hill, then I think called Cradley Heath, Stourbridge Jct, Kidderminster and Droitwich only to Worcester en route to Oxford and Paddington and the same on the evening return journey.

I seem to rember that when the 165/166s came out it was remarked they couldn't couple with 158s due to I belive number of control wires linked through coupler. I believe Turbos are 9 wire whilst most other units are 8. So although as has been said they can couple mechaniclly but not electrically.

It was suggested that depending on which unit was in front you either had a brake or didn't, which would be scary.

This is another gripe of mine why is it the private railways of the USA have had a standard coupler since the early 1900s, BR still hasn't got a standard coupler. In fact the situation is worse now than when I left the Southern in 1967. On the Central we were down to three, screw link and Westinghouse brakes on the 4 subs,  the buckeye and EP brakes on the rest of the units, 33s 73s TCs and screw and plain links on loco hauled stock and freight wagons with vacuum brakes. Although most hauled passenger stock had buckeyes to couple with 33s and 73s. The South Eastern was down to 2 as they had no 4 Subs by 67.

there are 42 cables in the couplers on west fleet controlling all manner of things from brake and power to public address.

i still find it hard to believe 166 cannot coule to 158 as i have seen ct class 170 coupled to them,i have also seen swt 159 and 170 coupled so that would mean 158's could couple to 166.

159s and 170s can couple, as can 158s and 170s ... however, they have a brilliant reputation. Doing 100mph past Farnborough, emergency brake goes in and won't release. You get the idea!

I'm still pretty sure 16X can only couple to 168s which although they are 170s their couplers are 16X configured. 159s are really 158s so should be able to couple. As SWT have proved by converting some more 158s to get rid of their 170s. Salisbury depot regularly wins one of Roger Ford's spanner awards. They usually go  to dedicated depots looking after a single class which means poor St. Phillip's Marsh doesn't stand a chance.

Now let me think, It was 1892 when Brunels faster and more stable Broad Gauge was taken out of use.
In that 116 years a few civil engineer jobs have been done that have brought the Great western Regions line down to the more standard Loading gauge.

St Ives rebuilt 1970, Lelant Saltings Openned 1978, that stops 165/166 working the St Ives Branch, plus they would have to be brought down by road.

Devonport Station in Plymouth has had it's Platforms widened since 1892.

Plus all the Wooden Viaducts that were replaced.