Great Western Coffee Shop

What started this train of thought: first class pricing. In particular, the discovery that a first class single Penzance to St Erth is now  £10:00, which compares with standard single £3:70, so has something in the fares system come completely unmoored with this one? At one time do I recall that first class was priced at standard class plus 50%?

The £10 figure leapt off the page for me because in July 2018,  for *reasons* - we already had 1st class advance tickets from St Erth up country - I did actually buy a couple of 1st class singles from Penzance to St Erth and don't recall they were anything like as disproportionate in price. (To the credit of the train crew, they also checked first class and came round with coffee the moment the train left the station).

Checking the figure, and landing on a page from the national rail site introducing first class, the pulled quote struck me.

"If you’re travelling for business, First Class gives you space to work and focus. If you’re travelling for leisure, you can relax and arrive rested and ready to enjoy your destination." - from https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/on-the-train/first-class/

It struck me because of the shade the quote throws on standard class rail travel. It could be said that many DfT-mandated train interiors are not even delivering this in first, let alone standard class, and rail travel, especially long distance, for the majority of the time should deliver an environment where its possible to get work done and/or relax.

Then... the language "First Class", "Standard Class". At the time the railways renamed second class to 'Standard' they really really  also should have renamed first class. And then, first class is a bit like a certain referendum in that it's not defined, so the provision differs widely between train operating companies and routes - and that the DfT will currently have its sights on the lot. It's actually fair enough that it's not defined... well, fair enough until we return to the likes of that £10 PNZ - SER fare.

But this put me in mind of last autumn's trip to West Yorkshire, and a choice of driving or rail, when the opportunity of returning via London but an advance ticket on crosscountry influenced the decision and for the return, an advance 1st ticket with LNER as far as Kings Cross was the dealmaker.

Hence, the experience of travelling out of Bradford Forster Square in an IEP on a bright autumn morning and while the train was fully staffed only from Leeds, this part of the journey raised the tone of the entirety of the out and back trip. It was also an opportunity to see the effectiveness with which LNER is selling its first class seats - few passengers from Bradford but thereafter the train was well-occupied thoughout with first and standard 70% - 90% full from Leeds and first with a mixture of all ages too including people with children. The final part of the journey from Paddington was an opportunity for a quick glance at GWR's first class and a reflection on the contrasting occupancy level and activity compared with the train into Kings Cross - industry structures mean that LNER have a far freer hand in terms of provision and marketing than does GWR.

And then... visits to Chester, Runcorn, Manchester... and TfW's first class, which given their various issues with trains, is struggling against adversity. Another reason it must struggle is that the ticketing systems aren't good at pricing through ticketing where these trains are used as part of a longer journey and the best option seems to be "Buy an upgrade on the train" - or rather, not, see below. One booked train and another two potentials were no show, so that's three out of four. Actually, 'Substitutions' is a better word than 'No show', though I'm strongly suspecting that substituting a packed to the rafters 2 carriage 153 for a logo and coaches was responsible for one of the party subsequently being on antibiotics for three weeks to fight of a non-covid chest infection.

Finally, first class upgrades. Trying to recall if it was once the case that it was routine to have a ticket excessed for 1st class travel, at a cost of the difference between standard and first - something that in any case might or might not be handled well by TfW's systems, depending on whether things are set up to offer the upgrade on the basis of e.g. Newport to Chester, for a passenger with a through ticket from say Bath to Warrington - a Bath to Warrington 1st class anytime return is £477:10 if the fare and route is Crosscountry, but £90:30 *standard* return via Hereford with TfW - and no first class through fares available. How to calculate the  excess for a Bath Spa to Warrington passenger travelling on a standard class through ticket via Hereford for which they've paid £90:30? The price of a first class return from Newport to Chester being £113.80, the answer is presumably not the difference between the two.

Apologies to anyone who has read this increasingly stream-of-consciousness post, it needs distillation.

Mark

My initial thoughts are that there’s little point in remeniscing back to the days of BR pricing & travel without also doing the same on other types of public transport, including flying.

Everything evolves. Rail is heading for flying. You buy an allocated seat on a particular service. Most tickets are very inflexible,  but no one seems to complain.

National Rail seems to offer it cheaper, but GWR does quote £10 -  but would many people really want to pay more than they need to to travel in 1st class for a 7 minute journey?

I want to know if Mark managed to finish his coffee in time!  ;D

I'm interested in this idea. I'd agree (or state, because this might not be your line of thought at all) that it's inconsistent to have "First" not followed by "Second". Or to have "Standard" not contrasted against a term which would describe the non-standard qualities it applies to: maybe "Superior" or "Luxury", though the first sounds a bit snobbish and the second arguably false description.

So what should First class be called?

Good point, but that wasn't going to be a problem as we weren't going to alight at St Erth, we held advance-booked 1st tickets to take us on from there and paid the (then small) premium on the short journey to St Erth to avoid the pffaff of moving between carriages.

On another occasion, something similar *was* an issue. Again with advance booked 1st tickets from Plymouth to Westbury on the train with pullman dining that leaves Plymouth I think it was about 12:15, it emerged that pullman dining is intended for people travelling up to London and didn't cope well with passengers for stations west of Reading. Despite that they'd had sight of our tickets when leaving Plymouth the train was past Teignmouth before the catering crew started taking food orders - and east of Exeter before it started to reach tables. A three course meal has never been eaten so quickly, but the meals did leave the train along with us at Westbury.

A letter to GWR followed and they graciously refunded the cost of the meal - and amended the pullman dining availability on the up trains from Plymouth - on east bound trains, passsengers now have to be travelling as far as Reading - and in any case the majority of trains from Plymouth no longer call at Westbury.

Mark

It's really difficult. 'First' might actually be a strong contender in that it's a simple word and if the connotations of exclusivity could be shredded from it it would be fine. Other options manage to sound contrived or worse but there's probably a better term out there.

On the 'Shredding the exclusivity' front, it has to be marketed in a way that's effective and not unaffordable - it's that that gave the trip on LNER its qualities - the people in first class were a somewhat representative slice of the people travelling more generally that day. And of course none of this makes any sense if the result is a howling loss-maker all round.

And on top of this, the quality of standard class has to be raised - at least to be inclusive of, say, people travelling with children in buggies. There's someone somewhere at the DfT, responsible for speccing train interior design, who deserves the experience of a sleeping small child in a buggy to be brought into their office every day for a week, once it arrives, child is to be summarily removed in what to it is an unfamiliar environment.

Mark

One idea may be to simplify the entire fares system?

Sorry I forget, that's far too radical!  :)

There’s never been a better time to do it…but are the DfT interested?

When Virgin re-branded the Cross-Country trains, "First Class" became "Club Class" for a while - but confused people unused to flying (as did "First" on "standard" seats in First Great Western trains, IIRC).

I called online for synonyms ... "Premier", "Club", "Comfort", "Special", "Snooty", "Snobby"

"Better" and "Budget" classes?  But use of "Budget" will have people saying the fares are not in their budget.

Really Interesting discussion on "Interailing for the Older Crowd" on First v Standard pass; at least one of our esteemed members is there too.  I took a first class pass last autumn  - great for the extra space and the better chance of getting a seat on crowded services. Just sad at times sitting "up there" and missing out on seeing and perhaps speaking with more interesting people.

You should be able to get your Gnashers into a good Beano in Snooty class, but there's a Menace of getting a Bash from the Minxes and Kids at the other end of the train.

Personally I’d like to see the person who signed off on those lovely Fainsa seats on the Class 8xx have to use one as an office chair for at least a month. Oh and no extra cushion either (like I take and use when on GWR) they have to experience it like the passengers have to