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Gloucestershire County Cricket Club are looking to move to a green field site in South Gloucestershire "near to the M4". Does that also mean near to the railway, and if so which station?  Would that have an adequate service?  Do you know what I am wondering?

Of course the existing ground is within months of having a station open within a 5 minute walk!

My very thought.

This is madness.

In my view, planning permission should not be granted for major new sports grounds that are not close to a rail station.

Why not?

Thought it was an open meeting at 1pm on Tuesday 5th December,but it was for members only,and I thought there were two more meetings later in the day.

I think selling the ground for housing will bring more benefit for the cricket club to secure better players

Major planning applications require travel plans in addition to myriads of other plans and reports, but whether these are got right, and whether facilities provided are then actually used the intended and in a proper way.

Schools around where I live are a real problem - primary designed for a locality and with decent walking routes, but then primarily served by a set of fossil-fuel-burning, carbon-generating mum's taxis, clogging the local streets with SUVs in which the majority of seats are unoccupied and spend half their moving life on journeys to and from depot. It's caused by a freedom to choose a school for each little darling which we rightfully give but do not cater for.  And it causes discomfort s and safety issues around the schools - all of them - Rivermead, Aloeric, Manor, Bowerhill and Forest & Sandridge. A new build that's just outside my ward (in the next Parish) is in planning.  It's well scattered with the other primary schools -  designed with reasonable walking routes to and from the catchment that has no other close school, but there is a deep worry about traffic jams that will be caused due to very limited road access and just a tiny area of motor car facilities at the school.

Sports facilities here - the Oakfield ground Rugby and Football clubs - were built on a green field site on the edge of the town - the far side of the town from the railway station, and proudly around 400 yards from but route 15 with 2 services a day. Walking and cycling are reasonable though they are not, I note, in the strategic plan proposals that we have been asked to consult on over the next fortnight.    The people who come here ARE from quite a distance - away teams and fans from across the region - and I regret there not being better public transport there though the whole thing needs to be based on a very lumpy traffic requiring total journeys to and from other places which don't have easy rail travel from Melksham anyway.  This month - Evesham, Frome, Wimborne, Paulton, Supermarine and Bristol (Manor Farm)

I'm also minded by places like Coventry where as I understand it there's a railway station beside a huge new stadium (and it's a re-opened station too!) where the station is CLOSED on major match days because it would become dangerously overcrowded.

It makes sense to provide a travel plan for new builds and - looking environmentally forward - they should include crowd arrival and departure plans that are green mass transit at the venue, and considerate of total journey.  And, yes, a railway station with platforms long enough for high capacity trains, and lines to run enough of those long trains to and from places they can be further gathered from or disipated from is the excellent and obvious solution.  Whether that's a solution that will take the fancy and be accepted by the pockets of those who make the decisions ... we'll have to wait and see. The press comment of "near the M4" may give us a clue.

It may also be in relation to the changes in structure of the cricket season, especially the Hundred. Here Somerset, Glamorgan and Gloucester are vying for one franchise!

Station next to the stadium, and a little hourly shuttle, not sure if it's now more than two carriages. Mahoosive road connection and a nearby motorway though.

Looking at sport from the outside, there's a huge strand going through it that goes out of its way to be an enormous generator of traffic whether road or air - and to generally open people's wallets and that's not accidental, it's the core function. It's a long time since the likes of Shrewsbury football club retained a coracle in order to fetch the ball when it went into the Severn...

Mark

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:CAA/2023-12-13/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:CAA/2023-12-13/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt)

In order to reduce the environmental costs of road transport, in order keep major sporting events accessible to those who do not drive, and to avoid adding to traffic congestion.

That's largely because big stadiums are no longer just focused on Saturday matches, they are used for conferences during the week and concerts etc too (often with late night finishes) so those connections are necessary.

It's unrealistic to expect people to be obliged to be shoehorned onto a train when they are coming from often a long distance and from all directions.

By all means ideally have a station nearby (with sufficient capacity for large events, which in itself is limiting as anyone whose tried to get a post match train from Cardiff Central will testify) but people need to be given a choice whether travelling by car, coach etc.

To ban the construction of new stadiums unless they're near a station is plain daft I'm afraid.

To be fair, TG, Broadgage was not saying that everyone would be obliged to travel by train, merely that major new stadiums (stadia?) should be close to railway stations. It begs a question as to what "close" might be, but it is now an accepted part of planning decision making to consider the impact of transport provision, and to refuse permission if there's not adequate public transport (the provision of which might be as part of the proposed development). If it is a national sport (as county cricket is) I think it is reasonable to expect a major new stadium to be reasonably well placed for rail access, which might be by a good bus connection to a station with adequate capacity.  

OK I accept that up to a point, but if one of the drivers is "to avoid adding to traffic congestion" then there would have to be an element of obligation or at least incentive, and what if you're travelling long distance without a suitable connection?

Shuttle buses "football specials" are an entirely reasonable suggestion and worked well at Reading, but then again you would be raising an expectation, and would need to be able to guarantee rail services with adequate capacity and sufficiently late services to cope with major events (including day/night cricket matches with your example?), which simply isn't the case even in large centres such as Cardiff..............or even Plymouth! :-)

I suspect carrot would be a better approach than stick - the default position of shouting for things to be banned/not allowed without considering individual circumstances is, I repeat, daft - what, for example, do you do in the case of towns which have a big sporting footprint but no, or only a small rail station?, and I repeat that modern stadiums are about far more than simply Saturday afternoon sport.

I support freedom of choice, including the freedom to drive to major sports stadia.
What I can not support is preventing the freedom to travel by train, by building such stadia away from stations, thereby "locking in" road travel probably for decades to come.

"near" a station, should in my view mean within half a mile, measured from the mid point of the train to the main entrance of the stadium. Not half a mile from the station entrance , but from the train.

Whilst a major station is preferable, even a small station is a possibility providing that it can be improved in capacity. As part of stadium building project. An extra platform suitable for a 12 car train would be a considerable help. Three 12 car trains arriving say 30 minutes, 40 minutes and 50 minutes before the start of the match should shift about 4,000 passengers. With decent signalling, shorter headways should be possible, allowing for perhaps 10,000 passengers arriving a reasonable time before the match.

Aside (and I may split the thread) - what is the longest distance from a station entrance to your train?  I wonder about South Ken, with the tunnel to the museums, or Dovey Junction with the long walk out to the road.

Given that Twickenham stadium is 0.6 miles from Twickenham Station, I'm sure the RFU are relieved that you weren't in charge of planning policy when their application was submitted!  :)

... in... 1906 and largely before people drove everywhere.

Again, while I don't have the gene for sport, rail travel to Twickenham for the rugby has been a thing since whenever and presumably still is - people travelling to it do think of the stadium as about a half mile from the station - which it is, especially in wishful thinking terms.

The half mile separation is possibly useful to the railway as it must spread people out. It's been some time since I lived nearby - when the 1950s station's additional platform(s?) that served the stadium were very much part of things. Twickenham station's been much redeveloped though, curiously the current map at the National Rail site has those platforms (with track too...).

https://images.nationalrail.co.uk/e8xgegruud3g/31Q3CCYZjptJAnZfnHUfEX/c7f4a8a02538d2eaa357506ff8f917ec/Twickenham_station_map.jpg

Travellers for the rugby also visit Twickenham town centre which is in the opposite direction, and I recall a work colleague from a workplace 100 miles away remarking that he always associated a match at Twickenham with the smell of sawn softwood as he walked past Alsfords the timber merchants in Heath Road. Puzzling as Alsfords *definitely* isn't in the direction of the stadium or station...

Mark

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18.0&lat=51.45061&lon=-0.33047&layers=170&b=20 (https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18.0&lat=51.45061&lon=-0.33047&layers=170&b=20)

I must confess to not being entirely serious. Thought the smiley might have given that away!

To be honest at times when I've left Twickenham stadium it's felt like 10 miles (although that's normally Whitton Station, via the White Hart!)

It is worth adding context that the normal capacity of the current ground is less than 10k and even for international games where they add temporary seating it is still less than 20k. Nowhere near the grounds places like Twickenham etc get.

The existing ground is also pretty well served by buses, and has an existing train station within a mile (and the previously mentioned new station opening in 2024 about 500m away). It obviously is also incredibly accessible for those people who live in the general North Bristol area (and is within walking distance for tens of thousands of people).

You basically lose all that by moving away to a motorway based ground where driving will likely be the main transport option with potentially some buses if we are lucky (but not as many routes as the existing ground is served by). Essentially baking in car dependency for travel to the ground for at least a large percentage of visitors. Not something we should be planning for in 2023 IMO.

I take WelshBluebird's points about access for locals.  However, for international matches many spectators are from away.

The ground is not up to the standard of any of the others which host international cricket.  Temporary stands have to be erected for fixtures and even then the capacity is limited.

I've been to several international matches there.  There is no shade unless you happen to be in the pavilion and the temporary toilet facilities (largely those blue building site portabogs) are both inadequate in number and minging.

The last time I was there, the ticket/security check involved a 20 minute queue snaking down Nevil Road. Poorly compared with everywhere else except Lord's.

There is no car parking to speak of within any reasonable distance and, pending the opening of Ashley Down Station, no convenient rail connection.  There are bus services via Gloucester Road, Muller Road and Ashley Down Road so not very far away.  But you still probably have to park somewhere and catch a bus if you're not local.

I also agree, however, that a green field stadium somewhere off the ring road or the M4 is not the answer.  The majority of cricket played at Bristol is attractive only to a local audience and moving out of town would not improve attendance at Glos CCC matches.

A conundrum. 

The ground is fine for Glos CCC cricket but it is not up to scratch for anything beyond that.  As has been said above, there is competition for 100 franchises and as it stands Taunton would get the vote over Bristol as it's a much better appointed ground, as is Sophia Gardens of course.

One of the major reasons for the proposed move is to have a year round facilty. More attractive for international cricket in summer and multi-purpose to attract more non-cricket events.