Great Western Coffee Shop

The first set (XC01) left Doncaster yesterday and is not being tested:
Observations:
*Few tables
*New coach (TCC First Class/Trolley Store with oven/Standard class)
*The toilet at one end of the coach (and luggage rack) has been converted to seating

More soon...

Are they keeping buffets?

How many carriages/ first carriages / second carriages?

etc.

Formed
PC
TF First Class
TCC (2/3 First Class/ rest has a trolley store with basic cooking equip and 12 standard class seats)
Then 6 standard trailers with TGS and TSD plonked somewhere
PC

so 8 coaches in total.

Some photos here: http://thejunction.fotopic.net/c1584156_1.html
Notice the seats in what would be the toilet window http://thejunction.fotopic.net/p53771227.html

Thanks for posting the link to the pics of the new XC HST Liam.

One comment (noticing the seating where a toilet used to be) What is this obsession with providing less toilets these days!?!?! People still need to go just as much as they did when Noah was a lad...thats one thing that hasn't ever changed.

Surely the fact that they have 8 coaches (instead of 4 or 5) means they don't need to cram seats in the toilet area!

And D/M, I got a little lost with your abbreviations. Is that 2 coaches of first class? Or is one a buffet?

Thanks for the pictures.

Looks good, but still no destination screens near the doors.

Have to say it looks pretty smart.  The seats look the same as the refreshed NX HST that made an appearance during the summer.

It sounds  like there isnt much of a capacity increase in first class to me? 

However, i like the idea of removing some toilets, as lets be honesr, you dont need 2 in each carraige on an 8 carriage train!!

What cooking facilities are onboard?  And why are they even needed if the shops are all being removed eventually? 

I look forward to trying this coach when it is doing its rounds!!

However, I wonder if we will see similar work done to the Voyagers?  Especially the onboard shop and extra disabled bog?

Catering kit is basically standard buffet set-up: microwave oven, hot water supply, but without a counter, just space to park the trolley between trips up the train. I presume the intention is to offer same first class complimentary hot food as they do now on Voyagers, such as paninis and breakfast baps, hence the oven. Not clear whether standard class will be able to order hot snacks from the trolley stewards though.

TCC, as one of the picture captions says, means trailer composite catering. Composite is long-standing railway terminology for a coach containing more than one class of accommodation, in this case first and standard, though these XC ones and some in Hull Trains' Pioneer sets are about the only ones operating on the modern railway.
I think that apart from a driving trailer coach in the Class 442 electric units (I'm waiting to see if these survive the 442s' return to action with Southern), the last new build composites were BR Mk1 coaches.

Fewer toilets. Hmm, well let's wait and see on that one. As has been discussed elsewhere, FGW sets have a nasty habit of running out of water in the tanks if turnarounds are cut short, even with a few more toilets available to start with. And XC's long routes, conflicting with all manner of other services, have a habit of picking up delay minutes, so maybe it won't look such a smart idea on a summer Saturday, with a packed train that got turned back fast after arriving late somewhere in the South West and is out of water on reaching Yorkshire, with a good few miles still to go to reach Newcastle or Edinburgh.

I think are all missing the fact that there will only be one luggage rack per coach as aside to FGW who have 2.

>:( And one of the reasons that XC said for bring back HSTs was for more luggage space!

It is a shame there will be no double voyagers as a result of these 5 new HSTs, as VT have nicked them (to run under the wires!).

 >:(

Not happy.

Virgin didn't nick them, they were allocated by DfT, and in any case, the extra SuperVoyagers are to beef up the Chester and North Wales services (and replace dragged Pendolinos on this route as they are needed for extra electric services), so Virgin needs to use diesel trains of some sort, due to the lack of wires west of Crewe, plus they have to tilt to get paths in among Pendolinos, so SuperVoyagers are the only game in town.

they made it qute clear in the Franchise specification  that shops were out and trollies in!

and they are having jolly old SDO too

I thought it had been discussed several times that there will be some doule voyagers, as there are fewer diagrams to be fulfilled, with the remaining stock, even after the final units transfer to Virgin.  I would be very shocoked if we dont see more double voyagers coming up. 

No double Voyagers at the moment (I think)

5 HSTs go in;

5 Super Voyagers go out;

So I doubt there will be any/ any more double Voyagers.

Aren't the total number of diagrams reducing due to reductions in the routes offered? The Brighton trains are history come december for a start, aren't they?

Which will give AXC some capacity within the Voyager fleet to undertake refurbishment / adjustment of the interior layout. Not sure what the plan is this week with regard to removing the shop, the toilets are to remain as is as I understand it.

The following was the official announcement in April of the exact work being done to Voyagers and as far as I know nothing has changed since.

MORE SEATS AND LUGGAGE SPACE FOR CROSSCOUNTRY
CUSTOMERS
CrossCountry customers can look forward to extra seats and up to 25 percent more luggage space
following the award of a contract to redesign and refresh the interiors of the company^s Voyager
train fleet.
Starting in September, train builder Bombardier will add an extra 16 seats and 20 percent more
luggage space to each of the 22 five-car Voyagers and 14 extra seats and 25 percent more
luggage space to the 35 four-car trains, a total of 842 more seats across the fleet. The work will
take about 12 months to complete.
Space for additional seating is being created by minor modification of interior layouts and it has
been possible to retain all of the existing toilets, fully accessible to customers with special needs.
Increased luggage space will be achieved by introduction of new and improved luggage stacks
throughout each train and use of some of the space created by removal of the onboard shop,
which will also incorporate the cycle storage area.
As a result of customer feedback the shop will be replaced by at-seat service of food and drink
throughout the train.
CrossCountry Managing Director Andy Cooper said: ^Interior redesign of our Voyager trains will
make a significant contribution to our commitment to increase seating across our network by up to
35 percent. Getting a seat and having more space for luggage are customer priorities, and these
changes will allow us to improve the service we offer. People are naturally reluctant to leave their
possessions behind and take a walk to the shop, and we know that service of food and drink at
the seat is very popular.^

Ha! That's going to be a laugh - XC staff pushing through packed Voyager (because on average there are way more than 16 people standing per coach, let alone train).

I take it the shop will become a rack, but people won't want to leave their luggage unattended for hours!
I expect the extra seats will be carried out through lossing tables, legroom and reinstating seats 1 & 2 (which Virgin pulled out to try to ease the luggage space problem).

How else will they manage this?

We need MORE carriages/ double Voyagers to both eliminate the current critical overcrowding, and to give some space for passenger growth. This refit won't even scrape the surface with the overcrowding!

At least there will be a few HSTs rolling around, but they'll stay clear of the Cherwell Valley (i.e. FGW) routes!

Having seen photos of the HST trolley store interior, I imagine XC will decide to fit this into their Voyagers as there seems to be enough space to fit a person in with an openable window for serving.

Well, I'm all for giving operators a chance to prove their plans, but on the face of it 15 or so extra seats per set does equate to about 6 months of current passenger growth. I know their HST's are coming, and I know that services to some destinations are being pruned/withdrawn thereby releasing more capacity, but I remain sceptical that, with current growth in rail travel, AXC will do much to reduce crowding - unless there are more changes on the horizon?

Like I said, there were talks of efficiencies being brought about, and the timetable changes meant that less stock was required, plus the extra stock that will be gained from the Brighton services?  This means some will be freed up for doubel voyagers.

Lets remember, there must be excess voyagers in the fleet, to enbable them to start the voyager alterations?? 

Some photos of the new stock: http://www.trainpics.net/c1587437.html

Not mine

Interesting that they have used electronic reservations.

The overall view looks so much better than the FGW ones. The seats look comfier and there is less of a claustrophobic feel.

I don't know who designed the FGW ones, but the XC designer is miles better!

Roll this design out on the Voyagers I say!

The electronic reservations weren't in use today, maybe because on alternate days an unrefurbished rake will be used.

I can confirm that the look is much better than FGW, but not sure about the seats being any more comfortable. I was at a table, so will try and sample airline style on Thursday to judge pitch/leg room etc. Of course, Voyagers are narrower because they were designed for tilt, but GNER managed to accomplish a decent ambience in the Mk 4s with their Mallard rebuild. The seats in the XC HST looked very similar in fact.

think you will find the seats are the same ones used by XC as used by GNER in the Mallard Rebuild, also The XC 1st class seats are exactly the same as FGW 1st Class albeit trimmed in cloth not Leather, i also i am led to believe they are all made by the same firm whose name escapes me at present , although FGW Stnd seats were made by Grammar of Germany.
The layout looks OK , hopefully be on it tomorrow, but it looks a bit too much like a voyager for me

Certainly relatives who live in NXEC-land and came up from London to see me by FGW recently said they thought the standard class FGW interior felt too enclosed, but the seats were more comfortable than those in refitted Mk4s and Mk3s.

Is there any way to guarantee getting onto this HST?  What is its diagram?

Every other day M-F

0900 Glasgow - Plymouth (1711 Bristol)
0640 Plymouth - Aberdeen (0900 Bristol)

No Chance of me ever catching i then, as I need to travel after 930 with my railcard! 

Related article links.
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/edinburgh/Firm-rolls-out-its-refurbished.4550487.jp

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/High-Speed-Trains-make-comeback-Bristol-lines/article-376274-detail/article.html

Is back at Wabtec now due to faults  ;D

WHat faults are they?

you know what i was on a voyager yesterday to glouster and back smelly toilets rock hard seats noisy rattley a pacer would have been more preferable no joke

Can't find any mention of this, but prepared for  :-[ anyway....

I heard somewhere, that the seats in the FGW Mk3s are designed to be more user friendly in a crash situation, hence the high backs. 

thats true and i think you saw it the same place as me did you watch the refurb videos on youtube?

Yes, that must have been it.  FGW took lots of flak over seat design IIRC, particularly after Ufton Nervet

A XC memo said it went back for scheduled maintenance to ensure any initial problems could be ironed out.

Believe its back out today working 0900 Glasgow - Plymouth

Just had a look at some photos from the refurbished XC Mk3!
 :o

Impressive!
A lot nicer than the voyager seats   :-X