Great Western Coffee Shop

All across the Great Western territory => Buses and other ways to travel => Topic started by: Chris from Nailsea on November 19, 2008, 23:09:58



Title: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 19, 2008, 23:09:58
Quote
The cost of using the two Severn bridges next year will not rise as much as some drivers feared.

Tolls on the Severn Bridge and Second Severn Crossing go up each January, based on the retail price index (RPI).  With September's RPI showing inflation at five per cent, motoring organisations predicted that the risefrom January 1, 2009 would be 30p.

But Severn River Crossing, which oversees the operation of both bridges, has just announced the increase will be 20p, taking the toll for a car to ^5.50.  The rate for small goods vehicles and small buses, currently ^10.60, will go up to ^11.10, while drivers of heavy goods vehicles and buses will see the toll break through the ^16 barrier, rising from ^15.90 to ^16.60.

See http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/Severn-bridge-toll-rise-feared/article-484232-detail/article.html


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 18, 2010, 01:21:23
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-11317735):

Quote
Severn bridges to accept card payments before Ryder Cup

Drivers entering Wales using the Severn bridges will be able to pay by debit and credit card before Newport hosts golf's Ryder Cup in a fortnight.

David Davies, chair of the Welsh affairs committee, made the announcement during a visit to the bridges.

He said this was a temporary measure while the company running the crossings works on a long-term solution.

Thousands of fans will cross the bridges for the event, on 1-3 October.

However, drivers wil be encouraged to use cash to pay the toll charge as card payments will be taken using "slow" hand held card readers and not a "fast swipe and use system," Mr Davies, the Monmouth MP, said.

Earlier, Vale of Glamorgan MP Alun Cairns had said it was "such an important occasion" and a short-term answer may have to be found.

In June Transport Minister Norman Baker promised that the new payment methods would be in place for the tournament between Europe and the United States, which runs from October 1-3.

Some 45,000 people are due to attend the tournament on each of the three days and it has been calculated that the event will boost the Welsh economy by at least ^73m.

In a statement before Mr Davies's announcement the Highways Agency said: "Discussions between the Highways Agency and the concessionaire, Severn River Crossings plc, to resolve the financial issues regarding the introduction of card payments are ongoing. Work to amend the tolling software to allow for the processing of credit and debit cards had started. We hope the matter will be resolved before the Ryder Cup begins."

Responding to the Highways Agency's statement, committee member Mr Cairns said: "I would urge the government and the tolling company to do everything possible in order to deliver this.

The Tory MP for the Vale of Glamorgan added: "This is such an important occasion for Wales. Arguing or debating over commission payments, if that is the reason, is simply unacceptable."

Speaking before the visit, Jessica Morden, the Labour MP for Newport East who is also on the committee, said she was "very disappointed" that the issue had not yet been resolved. "They should allow the public to pay to use the bridges with the most convenient modern bridges," she said. "It should be a relatively simple thing to sort out."

Meanwhile, evidence sessions for the committee's inquiry into the bridges will begin in October.

Among issues to be discussed will be toll prices, the impact of the tolls on the Welsh economy, the condition of the bridges and maintenance costs.

The Welsh affairs committee is to examine the future of the bridges after the crossings have reverted to public ownership.

Currently operated by a private company, the Severn Bridge will return to government ownership when the firm has collected a fixed sum of money from tolls.

In June Mr Baker said the bridge could return to government hands by 2017 based on current estimates of toll earnings.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Mookiemoo on September 18, 2010, 16:32:11
Well until they realise that vehicles like a navara or L-200 eetc are not proper large vehicles I will not be getting highway robbed by them again


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: JayMac on September 18, 2010, 16:45:25
I'd say your Navara was 'proper' large!  :P ;) ;D


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on September 18, 2010, 16:49:04
i always found it interesting how in some cases like this this type of vehicle was classed the same as a medium goods vehicle yet where speed limits are concerned they can do the same speeds as cars 


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: smokey on September 18, 2010, 17:51:21
Well until they realise that vehicles like a navara or L-200 eetc are not proper large vehicles I will not be getting highway robbed by them again


Get a Car with a Company LOGO on it and I understand you pay Double the Car toll.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Brucey on September 18, 2010, 17:57:39
Well until they realise that vehicles like a navara or L-200 eetc are not proper large vehicles I will not be getting highway robbed by them again

Same with vans.  You can take a small minibus with 8 seats over for ^5.50 but a Transit van with only 3 seats costs ^10.90 ???


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: devon_metro on September 18, 2010, 18:09:39
Going to be some pretty big queues if they are using the slow dial up card machines!


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 18, 2010, 18:33:11
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-11341414):

Quote
Severn tolls 'still quicker with cash'

Ryder Cup visitors using the Severn tolls to get to Newport are being told it will be quicker to cross if they pay by cash.

Credit and debit card options are being installed in time for the event, with the cup's practice days just over a week away.

The machines being used will be hand-held chip-and-pin devices, so motorists are being advised to pay in cash.

Officials are also urging visitors to give themselves plenty of travel time.

The Highways Agency is warning that major routes into Wales will see "significant" increases in traffic.

The busiest routes will be the M5 southbound and the M4 westbound, especially at the Severn Crossings.

The agency said it expected to see routes "very busy" from 0500 to 1000 BST right from the start of the opening week of practice starting from Monday 27 September, through to the end of the cup competition on 3 October.

"We would advise all people travelling into Wales while the event is ongoing to plan their journeys," said Graham Bowskill, Highways Agency Regional. "We know that it will increase people's enjoyment of this popular event if they are able to make their way to and from it with minimal delays."

One of the biggest concerns had been whether credit and debit card payments would be available for those paying tolls on the two Severn bridges on the M4 motorway.

It has been confirmed that the option will be available, however, it will be a temporary measure using hand-held chip-and-pin devices.

"The card payment system is being introduced in recognition of the large number of people from around the world who will be using the crossing for this event," said Norman Baker, the UK government transport minister. "However, as this will require road users to enter their pin number into a hand-held device, we strongly encourage crossing users to pay with cash for the quickest transit. I am grateful to the staff of the Highways Agency who have worked hard to ensure this card system is in place for the Ryder Cup."

The minister said a permanent swipe card system is expected to be in place early next year.

Other concerns about transport arrangements around Newport involving barrier work on the M4 are also being addressed.

Motorists have been forced to divert off the M4 around the city at certain times while central safety fence work and widening improvements have been taking place on a stretch from Tredegar Park to Coldra. Work is also being carried out on variable speed warning systems.

But the assembly government said all the road work restrictions will be lifted for the duration of the the Ryder Cup event, and the speed system work will have been completed.

However, a 50mph speed restriction in the area will remain in force until later in the year when all the safety work is completed.


Title: Switch to public transport behind Severn toll decline (Western Mail 28/09/2010)
Post by: JayMac on September 28, 2010, 15:59:26
From the Western Mail (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/09/28/switch-to-public-transport-behind-severn-toll-decline-91466-27353939/):

Quote
The recent fall in Severn Crossings traffic was partly caused by people switching to public transport, Western Mail research suggests.

Conservative MPs said last week they were worried by a 20% decline in vehicles using the M4 toll bridges.

The bridges^ operator blamed unemployment and fuel costs, but now we can reveal that growing numbers of people are crossing the Severn by train or coach.

Experts say people are heeding environmental messages from government and others. Worries about money during the economic downturn could also play a part, with coach companies offering some return tickets between South Wales and London for less than the Severn Crossing car toll.

New facilities and extra parking spaces at Severn Tunnel Junction station are enticing more people in Monmouthshire and east Newport to park and ride, rather than drive to Bristol or London.

The number of eastbound rail passenger journeys from Severn Tunnel Junction to the Avon or London areas has increased by 16.5% over two years ^ and 10% in the last year.

First Great Western has also seen an 8% growth in the last three months on its trains between Cardiff and Bristol, and 1.5% on its trains between South Wales and London.

A FGW spokesman said: ^Over the past 18 months we^ve seen a dramatic improvement in performance and punctuality on our trains. We^ve also invested in station and on-train improvements to increase security and customer comfort. More people are choosing to leave the car at home and travel by train.^

In June, National Express added two extra return services per day between Cardiff and London, reflecting growing demand. It provides 28 return departures most days of the week, rising to 36 on Fridays and Saturdays. Heathrow and Gatwick airports and Cardiff University are popular destinations.

Head of network planning Steve Way said National Express fares started at ^1 each way. ^People can sit back without worrying about driving, with no tolls to pay,^ he said. ^We have a huge mix of people using the coach, from students to businessmen.^

Stagecoach in South Wales also operates coaches between South Wales and London. Managing director John Gould said demand for the Megabus services had grown steadily. ^We put more services on about 12 months ago. We now have 11 per day,^ he said. ^The lower fares probably make it a little bit more attractive than the train or the toll.^

Friends of the Earth Cymru welcomed the cross-Severn trends. ^Switching from cars, which often only carry one person each, to public transport is better for the environment,^ said director Gordon James. ^More people are becoming aware of that, and realising it^s more stressful going by car. You can work on trains and buses and relax,^ he added.

He said Severn Tunnel Junction^s growth showed the value of upgrading public transport facilities.

^Road building is expensive,^ he said. ^You can get more by better traffic management and public transport investment.^

Stuart Cole, professor of transport at Glamorgan Business School, said people were switching from car to train because of road congestion, as well as increased public transport capacity and environmental concerns.

He said the recession had probably been the biggest factor in the Severn Crossings^ traffic decline.

^The evidence suggests that people who switch to train switch pretty well permanently. In the main, they don^t return to their cars just because the recession has ended.^

The recession affected rail freight as well as lorries crossing the Severn last year. But rail freight firm DB Schenker said: ^We are seeing an increase in demand to supply industry in South Wales. We are seeing some flows of goods switching to rail that otherwise were sent by road."

Freightliner Heavy Haul runs six trains per day through the Severn Tunnel, up from none five years ago. Each train carries as much as about 70 lorries.


Title: Switch to public transport behind Severn Crossing toll decline
Post by: Timmer on September 28, 2010, 17:38:02
From WalesOnline website:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2010/09/28/switch-to-public-transport-behind-severn-toll-decline-91466-27353939/
Quote
THE recent fall in Severn Crossings traffic was partly caused by people switching to public transport, Western Mail research suggests.

Conservative MPs said last week they were worried by a 20% decline in vehicles using the M4 toll bridges.

The bridges^ operator blamed unemployment and fuel costs, but now we can reveal that growing numbers of people are crossing the Severn by train or coach.

Experts say people are heeding environmental messages from government and others. Worries about money during the economic downturn could also play a part, with coach companies offering some return tickets between South Wales and London for less than the Severn Crossing car toll.

Quote
First Great Western has also seen an 8% growth in the last three months on its trains between Cardiff and Bristol, and 1.5% on its trains between South Wales and London.



Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 28, 2010, 18:51:29
In the interests of continuity and clarity, I've just merged a couple of recent posts here - purely to avoid duplication, in any subsequent discussion!

CfN.  :)


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Super Guard on September 28, 2010, 23:57:03
Why would the Government be worried about 20% less vehicles on the road  ??? ::)


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: JayMac on September 29, 2010, 00:30:48
Er..... less income from the various taxes motorists pay perhaps?

Or did you miss the 'tongue in cheek' smiley DG?


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Super Guard on September 29, 2010, 12:37:49
Er..... less income from the various taxes motorists pay perhaps?

Or did you miss the 'tongue in cheek' smiley DG?

 ;)


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: SDS on September 29, 2010, 19:18:24
Surprised they don't get that new Contactless payment system which Barclaycard seem to be advertising a lot.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: inspector_blakey on September 29, 2010, 20:14:34
From experience here in the US where many debit cards have a contactless chip, it's not much quicker than using the magnetic stripe (the technological advance of chip and pin has yet to make it to these shores!) - the bulk of the time is taken up with dialling through to the card company and receiving authorization.

As an aside, the bridge tolls certainly are encouraging people to use the train - I know some dyed-in-the-wool car users in Bristol who always take the train for trips to Cardiff because the station's conveniently located and the train fare works out significantly cheaper than driving when you factor in fuel, toll and parking.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: devon_metro on September 30, 2010, 00:34:09
Surprised they don't get that new Contactless payment system which Barclaycard seem to be advertising a lot.

Only really useful if you have the appropriate barclays/lloyds contactless cards.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 30, 2010, 17:46:20
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-11649821):

Quote
'Confusion' as card payments on Severn Bridge suspended

Card payment machines installed on the Severn crossings in time for the Ryder Cup have been withdrawn.

Drivers entering Wales have recently been able to use plastic instead of cash to pay the ^5.50 toll.

But UK Transport Minister Theresa Villiers has confirmed the removal of the devices while work is carried out to improve the system and reduce congestion.

Newport East MP Jessica Morden said the move had caused "confusion".

Temporary machines will be in use from next week with permanent ones introduced in the new year. The hope is the revised system will not require drivers to input their pin numbers.

Ms Morden told the House of Commons: "The facility enabling people to pay with credit and debit cards - for which I was grateful - was introduced in time for the Ryder Cup, only to be whisked away again the minute the event was over. That has caused confusion. My constituents would like to pay by modern methods, which is fair enough. Can the minister assure me that an end to the situation is in sight?"

Mrs Villiers said the initial systems were put in place to tie in with the start of the tournament. She said: "We considered it important to meet the deadline, given the significance of the event. The temporary scheme has been withdrawn for the moment, but is due to be back in operation on Friday next week. That gives us a chance to do some more work in order to make it more efficient, but there will be further work to make it more efficient still. We hope to introduce a system in the new year that will not require PINs. The temporary system does require them, and that causes delays and adds to congestion."

A Welsh Assembly Government spokesperson said they were "disappointed" the card payment machines had been temporarily removed. "This will cause unnecessary confusion to commuters who have benefited from their installation since the run up to the Ryder Cup. We would urge both the bridge operators and the Department of Transport to reinstall card payment machines on the Severn crossing as soon as possible."


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: LiskeardRich on October 30, 2010, 20:31:11
i cross regularly, andthink debit cards are needed, but wont it slow traffic down,
i find the 50mph average camera zone after the bridge towards Newport is stupid, fair enough during peak, but not off peak


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 09, 2010, 21:02:24
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-11719614):

Quote
Severn river tolls rise 20p for cars and 80p for HGVs

Car drivers will pay 20p more to use the two Severn crossings from next year, with the toll rising to ^5.70.

Toll increases for the Severn bridges in January were announced to MPs on the Welsh Affairs Select Committee by the UK Transport Minister Mike Penning.

Van drivers will pay 60p more than the current ^10.90, and HGV tolls will rise by 80p to ^17.20.

Two transport firms which spend more than ^200,000 on tolls between them say they had hoped for a toll freeze.

The tolls are linked to inflation but Mr Penning said there would be no extra rise despite the increase in VAT.

He told the committee that queuing onto the Second Severn Crossing affects the Welsh economy.

Mike Penning said that while he did not think that the tolls themselves had a negative affect on Wales' economy, he thought more should be done in order to minimise the time motorists have to queue to pay their tolls.

He said: "The queuing and the congestion does affect the economy, there's no doubt about that, because it's all to do with perception."

There have been calls to introduce card payment machines on the tolls as well as using technology so that motorists can pay online before arriving at the tolls.

Mike Penning said that the way the original contract with the Severn River Crossing (SRC) company was "very restrictive" on what the UK government could do.

Mr Penning said: "This particular contract makes it difficult to absorb technology" but insisted the UK government would be working with SRC to change the agreement.

This could involve the UK government compensating the company for any extra money they would have to spend to introduce any new technology.

A spokewoman for Caerphilly-based Glenside Commercials and Llanelli-based Owens Transport Services said the firms' spending on tolls "will obviously increase in the wake of the rise in January".

Katherine Williams-Davies said: "In view of the Welsh Assembly Government looking at the impact of the tolls on the Welsh economy and the current enquiry by the Welsh Affairs Committee, we were hopeful that there would be a freeze on the tolls this year. Transport costs for most companies just keep rising. We all have to pay the increases in fuel duty and road fund licences if we want to keep our vehicles on the road and to also have to bear the added burden of year-on-year rises in the cost of the Severn tolls just adds to the pressure."

Last week the Welsh MPs committee heard the tolls on both Severn crossings should be much cheaper once the concession to run them ends in 2017.

Severn Crossing Plc General Manager Jim Clune said only maintenance and running costs would need to be covered after that date.

Mr Clune told MPs the tolls cost ^15m a year to run and maintain, but generate a net revenue of ^77m a year at today's prices.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Sprog on November 09, 2010, 21:29:27
**** off!!!

I have a Van and i already cringe at paying 10.90.

I am simply NOT going to pay 11.50. It is a total rip off and totally unjustified despite what all of the corrupted MPs and company directors state..... it should be a non-profit company plain and simple. They should not be allowed to monoploise the entry to wales.

I will be driving via Glocuseter in future...happily clogging up the M5, congesting the roads in Gloucester and the A48 down to the Couldra. B*****ks to it............


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: JayMac on November 09, 2010, 22:41:44
It's pretty much a non-profit company. No-one is making oodles of money out of the Severn River Crossings PLC (Except maybe the banks who furnished the original loans!) In 2008 the PLC made a net loss of ^4.1m and in 2009 it made a net profit of ^4.2m. As far as I can tell from the company accounts available online, it has not once paid a dividend to shareholders.

The income generated from the tolls is used to pay off the capital costs of building the 2nd Severn Crossing, (^330m) paying off the debt on the 1st bridge (^122m) as well as maintaining the two crossings and covering running costs for the concession period of a maximum of 30 years. The concession granted to cover these costs was valued at ^995,830,000 and began on 26th April 1992. All figures expressed in July 1989 prices.

The current forecast is that the two crossings will revert to public ownership in early 2017. This being the date when Severn River Crossings PLC believe they will have reached the allowed cumulative revenue figure of ^995,830,000. So, yes, it could be argued that tolls are too high as the cumulative revenue figure looks likely to be reached 5 years early - however tolls have only increased in line with the Retail Price Index. Even when European legislation forced the UK to add VAT to bridge tolls, the Secretary of State and Severn River Crossings PLC structured a refinancing of the concession to avoid huge increases in tolls when VAT became payable.

Once reverted to public ownership the Secretary of State can continue to levy tolls for a further 5 years; the legislation is unclear as to whether the tolls should be only levied to cover running costs and maintenance. After 5 years new legislation will be required to continue levying tolls, or the bridges' costs could be met by general taxation like the rest of the highways.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: LiskeardRich on November 09, 2010, 23:57:06
i always found it interesting how in some cases like this this type of vehicle was classed the same as a medium goods vehicle yet where speed limits are concerned they can do the same speeds as cars 
incorrect if their gross weight is over 2 tonnes which i believe they do they are limited to a lower speed limit, i discovered this when i got done driving a a SWB transit, the police officer explained to me at the time that lower limits apply to any vehicle over 2 tonnes!!!!  the officer said many transit drivers get caught out
the limits for vehicle with gross over 2 tonnes  but less than 7.5 tonnes are as follows:
single carriageway 50 mph (60 cars)
dual carriageway 60mph (70 cars)
motorway 70mph same as cars!!!

info can be found here towards the bottom, 
http://www.smartdriving.co.uk/Driving/DefensiveDriving/Speed/UK_Speed_limits.html


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: JayMac on December 23, 2010, 22:18:45
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-12054654):

Quote
Welsh MPs suggest ^1.50 Severn Crossings tolls for cars

Tolls should be slashed on the Severn Crossings to as little as ^1.50, once they revert to public ownership, says a group of MPs. Reductions to a fifth are proposed by the Welsh Affairs Committee from 2017 and it wants the toll cut "at the earliest opportunity".

The tolls, which rise for cars on the M4 and M48 to ^5.70 in January, are called a "barrier to business".

Severn River Crossing Plc has been asked to comment.

The Welsh Affairs Committee makes a host of recommendations, including concessions for some businesses.

The tolls are charged on both the M4 and M48 motorways as vehicles cross into Wales.

The old Severn Bridge opened in 1966, while the ^300m second Severn crossing opened 30 years later. The MPs said they cost ^15m a year to run and maintain but they raise ^72m in revenue.

The committee report, published on Wednesday, was commissioned to assess the impact the Severn Crossings toll has on the economy of south Wales and beyond. But the MPs found much evidence was anecdotal and now recommends harder evidence is gathered about the economic effects of the toll on both sides of the border.

'Cash cow'

Committee chair David Davies, the MP for Monmouth, said: "We are very concerned by anecdotal reports that the level of the toll has put some people off investing in Wales and more hard evidence must be gathered about their economic impact.

"Unfortunately, due to the inflexible provisions of the 1992 Severn Crossings Act, neither the government nor Severn Crossings Plc is able to freeze or reduce the toll without incurring significant costs." He also accused the company of being "pretty haphazard" in introducing modern payment technology, saying, in all likelihood, it "would not have happened at all if Wales had not hosted the Ryder Cup this year". Mr Davies added: "The antiquated payment system in place until then had given visitors to Wales a poor first impression of the country. The government should invest now in free-flow payment technology without delay and recoup the cost when the crossings transfer to public ownership at the end of the concession period in or around 2017. At the same time, tolling prices should be reduced and concessions for those who depend on the crossings for their livelihood could be introduced. The government must not be tempted to use the toll as a convenient 'cash cow'," he added.

The report said: "With running costs of ^15m a year, and a current yearly income of ^72m, we estimate that the toll could be reduced to a fifth of its current level, to approximately ^1.50 while allowing the crossings to remain self-financing. We recommend that the government should seek to reduce the level of the toll at the earliest opportunity."

The Welsh Affairs Committee heard last month that most of the money the tolls raise is used to cover debts.

Severn River Crossing Plc General Manager Jim Clune told MPs only maintenance and running costs would need to be covered after 2017.

The Welsh Affairs Committee Report into the Severn Tolls can be found here (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmselect/cmwelaf/506/50602.htm).


Title: Severn Bridge - credit cards?
Post by: Brucey on July 16, 2011, 09:17:05
Is it still possible to pay the Severn Bridge toll by credit/debit card or was this just a trial run during the Ryder Cup?

I seem to be finding conflicting information online, including the slightly outdated "Cheque with a valid cheque guarantee card only" on the Severn River Crossing plc website.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge - credit cards?
Post by: des5564 on July 16, 2011, 20:02:01
They accept debit cards, used mine couple of weeks ago. Was reasonably quick and painless, not for boss hgv ^17.20!


Title: Re: Severn Bridge - credit cards?
Post by: Brucey on July 19, 2011, 08:18:09
Worked very well and reasonably fast (I suppose anything would seem fast after queuing for ten minutes to pay the toll)!  Made the whole ^5.70 experience much less painful.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 05, 2012, 22:40:13
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-16382595):

Quote
Severn tolls 'damaging economy' claim as charges rise

Tolls on the Severn bridges have gone up again, prompting fresh criticism of their impact on the Welsh economy.

Charges are now ^6 for cars, ^12.10 for vans and ^18.10 for lorries, following the annual New Year increase.

Some MPs want the UK government to discuss ways of reducing the charges with the private operator but others say it cannot be done.

Meanwhile residents of the Forest of Dean have called for discounts for people living near the crossings.

Martin Evans from the University of Glamorgan Business School told BBC Radio Wales the charges were having a negative impact on economic activity on the Welsh side of the crossings. "When you have a bridge with a toll across it, it is a restriction on economic activity on both sides," he said. "But in this instance we probably suffer more than the English side do."

He said a complicating factor was that although transport and economic development had been devolved to Wales, the UK government had responsibility for the bridges.

The crossing are due to pass into public ownership in five years' time.

Swansea West Labour MP Geraint Davies believes it is possible to lower the tolls now. He said: "It's a matter of the government sitting around the table. The bottom line is from 2017 we will be able to reduce the tolls from ^6 to around ^1 just to cover the operating and maintenance costs."

He said there was an incentive for the UK government to do so earlier as increased economic activity would result in higher taxes for the Treasury.

"What I think the government should do is firstly announce from 2017 there will be a substantial reduction once it goes into public ownership. The government could pay up front some of the money to get tolls down in order to reap the rewards sooner rather than later at a time when we urgently need inward investment."

Monmouth MP David Davies, who chairs the Welsh Affairs Select Committee, said its members had already made a number of recommendations about future charges. "The only way we could do it [drop charges now] would be to pay vast amounts of compensation to the company that built the bridge," he said. "Where I absolutely agree with Geraint is we can do something about this in 2017 because the original amount of money that was agreed for paying for the bridge will be paid off. Then we could go back to a much lower price."

Meanwhile residents living in the Tidenham and Tutshill areas of the Forest of Dean in Gloucestershire are calling for a local discount following the annual toll rise.

John Powell from Tidenham parish council said: "For those in the parish who work over in Bristol and have to use the crossing it's an impingement on them. Recently one or our friends had to go to a Bristol hospital to have chemotherapy about three or four times a week for quite a considerable time and at ^6 a time it was a very, very expensive exercise from which you have no recourse to reimbursement of the costs."


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: devon_metro on January 06, 2012, 00:28:21
Bet the divert via Gloucester doesn't even cost ^6 of fuel!!


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: inspector_blakey on January 06, 2012, 01:30:42
You either drive a Noddy-style pedal car with an exceedingly light foot, or you haven't seen the price of fuel recently ;)

I actually got stiffed by a toll collector at Christmas - hadn't read the sign on the way to the bridge with current tolls, remembered it being in the upper-five-pound range last time I went through so handed the cashier GBP 7.00 in cash to be on the safe side. Got 30p change back and only spotted as I was pulling away the little screen that said GBP 5.70 paid, thank you. Didn't think it was really worth slamming on the anchors ad reversing into the car behind for the sake of a pound at that point. :/


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: JayMac on January 06, 2012, 01:59:28
Well, it was Christmas. Perhaps the toll collector though the extra quid was a tip!


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: inspector_blakey on January 06, 2012, 02:57:03
That had never even occurred to me before now but you may even be right...!

Ironic really, as highway toll booths are one of the only places where you don't end up tipping staff in America ::)


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Btline on January 06, 2012, 07:47:59
That's appalling! You should ring the Daily Mail newline, I'm sure they'd love this.

"Tolls go up and man is OVERCHARGED" (accompanied by a photo of Inspector B sitting in his car frowning holding his hand out)


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: inspector_blakey on January 06, 2012, 15:23:13
That's a fantastic idea!  ;D


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: devon_metro on January 06, 2012, 16:46:06
Alternatively contact btline, resident Daily Mail reporter ;)


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: JayMac on April 15, 2012, 21:13:30
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-17713641):

Quote
Severn bridges: Longer deal allows company to collect extra ^33m

Tolls on the Severn bridges are likely to continue at their current level for longer than expected after a new deal with the company which charges the fee.

Severn River Crossing plc has been told it can run both bridges until it has taken an extra ^33m, up to ^1.02bn.

The bridges are expected to pass into public ownership by 2017, and MPs have said tolls should then be cut heavily.

Newspaper reports claim that will mean a delay of five months before the company loses its right to the tolls.

The Highways Agency said the date the deal will end would depend on factors such as traffic levels.

The Western Mail (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business-in-wales/business-news/2012/04/14/company-s-deal-to-run-severn-crossings-for-longer-91466-30754791/) has reported that current income levels would mean that the company would run the bridges between south Wales and England for five months longer than currently scheduled.

The newspaper also quoted the company as saying it had been in talks with the agency over issues which have affected profitability, such as a higher VAT element of the overall toll.

The agency confirmed that it had agreed a settlement in principle "which reflects recent tax changes and the costs of introducing card payments at the tolls".

A spokeswoman said: "The extension to the concession allows for a longer tolling period, as it is the additional toll revenue of ^33m which finances the settlement".

She said while the company's concession was limited by law to a maximum of 30 years, the actual end date will be when it has collected a set sum of ^1,028.9m.

"This will extend the end of the concession period but the actual date is dependent on a number of factors, including traffic levels," she said.

'Minimise impact'

The agency said it had considered a number of options for the company, including a cash payment, and a rise in tolls.

But it said it "opted for an extension to the concession so as to minimise the impact".

Severn River Crossing is responsible both for the original crossing, which opened in 1966, and the second bridge, built in 1996.

In 2010 the Welsh Affairs Select Committee recommended that drivers should pay as little as ^1.50 to use the bridges from 2017.

At present, the fee for cars is ^6. Larger vehicles pay ^12.10 and ^18.10 respectively.

The bridges are owned by the UK government, but the Welsh government is looking at the impact of tolls on Wales' economy, with a full report expected to be published later this spring.

The Welsh government wants to take control of the bridges when the contract ends. While it has said it would not scrap the tolls, it has indicated that it might be able to reduce them.

Tolls on the bridges go up every year, based on the Retail Price Index.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 15, 2014, 01:25:17
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-30058555):

Quote
Severn Bridge tolls to be increased in January 2015

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/78995000/jpg/_78995491_qdspupr9.jpg)
The cost of crossing the Severn Bridge will rise on 1 January 2015

The toll to cross the Severn Bridge and Second Severn Crossing into Wales will increase again next year.

From 1 January, cars will have to pay ^6.50 - up from the current ^6.40 - while small goods vehicles and small buses face a 30p rise to ^13.10, and heavy goods vehicles and buses will have to pay ^19.60, up from ^19.20.

Bridge owners Severn River Crossing PLC increase the cost every January in line with the Retail Price Index.

Calls have been made to cut the toll.

More than 25 million vehicles use the two bridges each year.

Funds from the tolls are used to pay the construction costs of the bridges.

The Liberal Democrats vowed the get rid of the tolls if they are in government after the 2015 general election.


Erm ... "The Liberal Democrats vowed the get rid of the tolls if they are in government after the 2015 general election" is shocking English from the BBC.  :o ::)


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 28, 2014, 16:03:24
From the Bristol Post (http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Severn-Bridges-expensive-stretches-road-world/story-25774188-detail/story.html?ito=email_newsletter_bristolpost):

Quote
Two Severn Bridges are now the most most expensive stretches of road in the world

(http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/images/localworld/ugc-images/276268/Article/images/25774188/9249846-large.jpg)
Severn Bridges

The two crossings over the Bristol Channel are among the two most expensive stretches of road anywhere in the world according to campaigners.

The claim has come as the annual increase in the toll for using the two bridges is due to come into force.

Motorists crossing into Wales on the M4 will have to pay ^6.50 if they are travelling in a car. The toll has increased by 10 pence for car users.

The charge for small goods vehicles and small buses face a 30p rise to ^13.10, and heavy goods vehicles and buses will have to pay ^19.60, up from ^19.20.

The Campaign Against Severn Tolls (CAST) said the increase makes the toll one of the most expensive per mile and claim the charges holding back economic growth in the region.

A spokesman said: ^Tolls for the Severn Bridge rise in line with inflation every year and are strictly regulated by the Severn Bridges Act 1992.^

Meanwhile a spokesman for CAST organiser said: ^The new year Severn toll bridge increases make it one of the most expensive bridge crossings in the world per mile.

"Because of these tolls new business opportunities to invest in Wales could be lost, and it will stunt the growth to the economy in our country. They will also be a bitter blow to the haulage and tourism industry.^

Bridge owners Severn River Crossing PLC said it increases the cost every January in line with the Retail Price Index.

More than 25 million vehicles use the two bridges each year and money raised from the tolls are used to cover the costs of the bridges.

The Liberal Democrats have vowed the get rid of the tolls if they are in government following next May^s election.


Erm ... those last three paragraphs in the Bristol Post article are remarkably similar to the text in the BBC item posted above - including the rather mangled grammar.  Plagiarism by the Bristol Post?  Surely not??  :o ::) ;D


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: ellendune on December 28, 2014, 16:08:39
Erm ... those last three paragraphs in the Bristol Post article are remarkably similar to the text in the BBC item posted above - including the rather mangled grammar.  Plagiarism by the Bristol Post?  Surely not??  :o ::) ;D

I suspect if you found the press release from the Campaign Against Severn Tolls (CAST) you wouyld find those mangled phrases come from the same single source. 


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: LiskeardRich on December 28, 2014, 16:32:26
Quote
The Liberal Democrats have vowed the get rid of the tolls if they are in government following next May^s election.

This isn't going to happen so is a pointless last line to waste space in the paper!


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 28, 2014, 16:41:26
I suspect if you found the press release from the Campaign Against Severn Tolls (CAST) you wouyld find those mangled phrases come from the same single source. 

To be fair to CAST, their website (http://severntollscampaign.org.uk/) is commendably accurate in grammar and spelling, and I can find no evidence of them being responsible for those mangled phrases.  ;)


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 13, 2017, 01:06:54
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/wales):

Quote
Severn crossings £3 toll plan from UK government

Cars, vans and small buses will pay just £3 in tolls when the Severn crossings go into public ownership around 2018, under UK government plans.

The proposed reduction is more than previously suggested, and is less than half the current £6.70 charge for cars.

Ministers are also seeking views on the introduction of a two-way "free-flow", barrier free charging system on the crossings.

A consultation is being launched on the proposals on Friday.

Transport secretary Chris Grayling said: "The future toll prices announced today will not only guarantee the future and safety of the crossings for generations to come but will also boost the economy whilst offering the best value for money for motorists and the taxpayer."

Baroness Randerson, Liberal Democrat transport spokeswoman and a former AM, said the proposals do "not go far enough".

She said: "Why should people using this bridge to pay for its upkeep when they already pay for road repairs through the tax system, just as users of other motorways do?"

(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/138CA/production/_93547008_letter.jpg)

Proposals on the tolls were detailed in a letter from the UK government to AMs and Welsh MPs

The news was detailed in a letter from Welsh Secretary Alun Cairns and UK Transport Minister John Hayes to AMs and Welsh MPs.

If a two-way "free-flow" charging system is also brought in, it would see the removal of toll barriers, with cameras being used to detect cars crossing the bridges, and tolls would be charged both ways.

It could also mean a toll of £1.50 each way for cars, vans and small buses, and £5 for larger vehicles.

The letter said the consultation would set out both the advantages and disadvantages of introducing such a system, which is already in use to enforce the London congestion charge.

"We understand the importance of the crossings for both the Welsh and English economies, and that they have benefitted both Welsh and English road users for 50 years," the ministers said in the letter.

"We believe that the approach set out in our consultation provides a sustainable approach, and a good deal for both users and the taxpayer in the decades to come."

Under the plans:
- Car tolls would be reduced from £6.70 to £3
- Vans and small buses will also pay only £3, down from £13.40
- Lorries and coaches will pay £10 instead of £20

Users of the Severn TAG cashless toll system will also see their charges reduced.

The letter said there was no intention to use the tolls for any other purpose other than to support the operation and maintenance of the bridges, and to repay the debt incurred by the UK taxpayer to fix "latent defects on the crossings".

"We can also assure you that the government will monitor toll prices closely with a view to further reductions if possible in future," it said.

Welsh Transport Secretary Ken Skates reiterated the Welsh Government's calls for the tolls to be scrapped once the Severn bridges revert to public ownership.

"We will continue to lobby the UK government for this," he said.




Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: TonyK on January 13, 2017, 09:05:12
I'll bet that ends up as £3 each way.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: chrisr_75 on January 13, 2017, 13:24:27
I'll bet that ends up as £3 each way.

Alun Cairns is quoted as saying £3 return or £1.50 each way if 2 way tolling is introduced:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-38600638 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-38600638)

Quote
We need to get to a compromise which allows us to bring about this new innovation in order to maintain the bridge in the most optimum condition as well as repay the debt.

This £1.50 each way - or £3 if you're only charging one way - strikes the balance.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Brucey on January 13, 2017, 19:37:33
As much as I detest selective road charging, a "free flow" system would be much welcomed.

I've been very happy with the Dart Charge system.  You either pay for an individual journey or have a prepay account (a bit like an Oyster card but without the card).  The account gives a discount.  Even when I had a zero balance one time, the toll was still applied to my account (at the discounted price) once I topped up the following date.

Many people say it is hassle having to pay online, but I personally find this easier than having to slow down, queue then count out cash at a toll barrier.  Especially as it can be done in advance and multiple journeys paid for in one transaction.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 17, 2017, 17:31:49
From the Bristol Post (http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/theresa-promises-scrap-tolls-severn-62322):

Quote
Labour and Tories both promise to scrap tolls on Severn Bridge

Ending the toll could boost the local economy by £100 million, the Tories predict

Theresa May’s Conservatives have pledged to scrap the tolls on the Severn Crossings linking Bristol to Wales if they win the General Election.

The Prime Minister said the move – which the Tories predict will bring a £100 million boost to the local economy – will happen as soon as next year when Highways England takes over responsibility for the bridges from Severn Crossings PLC.

The policy announcement came on the day Labour unveiled their manifesto, which also pledged to "work with the Welsh government" to scrap tolls on the two crossings.

Labour's long-held Bristol East is thought to be viewed as a Tory target in this election, given the popularity of Mrs May and the collapse of UKIP's vote since the referendum.

The Severn Crossings are key routes, especially for those living in South Wales and commuting regularly to Bristol for work and leisure.

The price charged on a car or van using the crossings is £6.70 a time, but rises to £13.40 for minibuses with up to 17, double-cab pick-ups or lorries under 3,500kg. Buses with 18 seats or more, and heavy goods vehicles weighing over 3,500kg pay £20 for every crossing.

There are heavily discounted seasonal electronic tags available for purchase, however. For example, a month-long pass for a car driver is the equivalent of taking 18 individual trips across the bridges.

Mrs May, who is due to formally make the announcement later today, is expected to say: “I want to ensure that our economic progress is shared across the United Kingdom. By abolishing tolls for 25 million annual journeys between two nations we will strengthen the links between communities."

"This will drive economic growth right across the country helping key economic centres in Cardiff, Bath, Bristol and Newport,” the Tory leader will say. “By significantly reducing the cost of doing business between Wales and England, the Conservatives continue to deliver on improving the economic prospects of ordinary working people.”

A spokesman for the Tories said the move was backed by commuters and communities on both sides of the crossings during a public consultation that closed in March.

(http://i3.bristolpost.co.uk/whats-on/family-kids/article250.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Dundry-hill.jpg)
A view of the Clifton Suspension Bridge and the old Severn Bridge, seen from Dundry Hill, Bristol (Photo: Dan Regan)

“For the past 50 years, tolls of up to £20 have been levied on vehicles crossing the Severn but a future Conservative government will scrap them for millions of drivers who use the bridges every year,” said the spokeswoman.

She said the decision would “bind together two economic areas in Wales and England, supporting the Union, whilst sharing prosperity right across the United Kingdom”.

Secretary of State for Wales, Alun Cairns, is expected to add: “Scrapping the Severn Crossing tolls is an example of the Conservatives of taking the big decisions when they’re the right decisions, in doing so, transforming the joint economic prospects of South Wales and the South West of England. Drivers using this key artery between two nations, en route to London, will benefit from a £100m boost to the local area.”


And, by the way, my personal thanks to Dan Regan for that absolutely brilliant picture of those two bridges - it's not an image I've seen before, but it really is a good one!  :D



Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Bmblbzzz on May 17, 2017, 20:29:05
As for abolishing the Severn Bridge tolls, are they talking about both bridges? It sounds like it. I'm not sure I think it's a good idea TBH.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: John R on May 17, 2017, 20:33:54
It would have to be both bridges else one would be rather quiet.

If the bridge has been paid for, which it will have been by the year end, it seems reasonable that the ongoing maintenance costs for such a vital link should come out of the general public purse. I suspect the costs of collecting the tolls will represent a large proportion of the reduced tolls that had already been agreed, and this again leans towards complete abolition.

I would put the Tamar Bridge in the same category.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: chrisr_75 on May 18, 2017, 00:48:37
It would have to be both bridges else one would be rather quiet.

One of them is rather quiet anyway, hence why I habitually use it in preference to the other one. The old lady deserves a bit of peace and quiet in her later years anyway!


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Western Pathfinder on May 18, 2017, 09:24:52
It would have to be both bridges else one would be rather quiet.

One of them is rather quiet anyway, hence why I habitually use it in preference to the other one. The old lady deserves a bit of peace and quiet in her later years anyway!

I too use the original bridge out of preference having spent many hours watching it being built from my bedroom window when a small boy the cranes kept me entertained for ages.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: TonyK on May 18, 2017, 09:33:09
I use whichever one is nearest to where I'm going, but I'm just an unromantic pragmatist.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 20, 2017, 16:48:32
Quote
And, by the way, my personal thanks to Dan Regan for that absolutely brilliant picture of those two bridges - it's not an image I've seen before, but it really is a good one!  :D

As our discussion about the perspective of that particular image has moved on, I have now split off several posts and created a new topic for them, at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18289.0

Hope this helps!  CfN.  ;)



Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: martyjon on July 21, 2017, 06:38:44
Severn Bridge tolls to be scrapped by the end of 2018. That was a news story headline item on BBC Radio 4 Today programme at 0600 this morning whilst I was in the bathroom but I didn't catch the rest of the item but it has been repeated on the 0630 news headlines.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: grahame on July 21, 2017, 08:22:52
Severn Bridge tolls to be scrapped by the end of 2018. That was a news story headline item on BBC Radio 4 Today programme at 0600 this morning whilst I was in the bathroom but I didn't catch the rest of the item but it has been repeated on the 0630 news headlines.

Interesting background article (from April) from Insider Media (https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/national/severn-crossing-revenues-pass-100m)

Quote
Turnover has passed the £100m mark at the company which operates the Severn Bridge and Second Severn Crossing, thanks to a 4 per cent increase in the number of journeys and inflation-linked toll increases.

Severn River Crossing was founded to take over the operation and maintenance of the Severn Bridge and finance, operate and maintain the Second Severn Crossing.

Revenue from toll charges is being used to pay off debt finance before both bridges return to public ownership.

The required revenue is set to be achieved in late 2017 with the bridges set to go into public ownership in 2018.

The latest accounts for Severn River Crossing plc show turnover of £103.2m was achieved in the year to 31 December 2016, up from £98m in 2015. Pre-tax profit also increased to £44.5m from £38.8m the year before.

The income generated by the business was used to repay an £80m bank loan during the year.

The company said traffic travelling westbound over both bridges had grown to 14.4 million vehicles, up from 13.9 million.

Car journeys increased by 4.4 per cent, light goods vehicles trips by 1.7 per cent and heavy goods vehicles crossing by 2.9 per cent.

In their report accompanying the accounts the directors said traffic growth was expected to continue in 2017, while revenues would be boosted by further index-linked toll price rises.

Earlier this year, the UK Government revealed plans to reduce tolls on the bridges when they go into public ownership.

Under the proposals, cars would pay £3 instead of the current £6.70. Small buses or vans would also pay £3, down from £13.40 lorries and coaches would pay £10 instead of £20.

A 'free-flow' charging system will also be considered, with toll booths removed and vehicles crossing the bridges instead monitored by cameras.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 15, 2017, 23:44:43
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41271239):

Quote
Severn Bridge tolls to be reduced in January 2018

Tolls on the Severn Bridges will be cut in January for the first time, as VAT is removed from the fees.

Cars heading for Wales will be charged £5.60 instead of £6.70, with vans paying £11.20 - down from £13.40 - and coaches £16.70, currently £20.

UK ministers confirmed it was a step towards abolishing tolls altogether at the end of 2018, as revealed in July.

Welsh Secretary Alun Cairns said tolls had been "an economic and symbolic barrier to Wales' future prosperity".

It will be the first time since the first Severn Bridge opened in 1966 that the toll has been cut.

The reduction takes effect on 8 January, the date the two crossings return to public ownership.

Motorists will also not face the usual inflation-related increase on New Year's Day.




Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: grahame on September 16, 2017, 05:42:49

Quote
Motorists will also not face the usual inflation-related increase on New Year's Day.


True. The VAT free prices are, though, rounded up so it's a modest 1p to 4p increase if you look at it like that. As the things are now in public ownership and VAT is a public tax, though, the reality is that total government take from private motorists (who are not VAT registered) is reduced, and some pay-and-reclaim stuff that's the business admin's workload is removed.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: JayMac on April 05, 2018, 17:12:25
The reduction in tolls is welcome, as is their abolition later this year.

Now, what do people think of the renaming of the Second Severn Crossing? The Prince of Wales Bridge.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-wales-43647151

I'm in agreement with fellow republicans. Just so unimaginative to name it after Brian.

Why couldn't there have been a public vote on a new name? Bridgey McBridgeface would have been so much better.  :P ;) ;D


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: grahame on April 05, 2018, 17:26:43
Now, what do people think of the renaming of the Second Severn Crossing? The Prince of Wales Bridge.

well

Quote
Labour Cardiff Central MP Jo Stevens accused Mr Cairns of "wasting time on PR projects".

"No tidal lagoon, no post-Brexit replacement funding, no rail electrification to Swansea but the Tory Secretary of State has managed to get a bridge renamed," she said.

I hope the renaming wasn't as expensive as the electrification to Swansea would have been!

It's good to see a smaller project near Pilning going ahead - perhaps that will set a precedent for another (http://www.sewweb.info)


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: chuffed on April 05, 2018, 17:46:16
Let's hope the bridge plaque doesn't say Price of Wails ! ::)

I hope abolishing the tolls won't let in the trolls !


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: jdw.wor on April 05, 2018, 18:14:19
You get charged for LEAVING England not entering!


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: johnneyw on April 05, 2018, 19:03:50
If only the link Grahame added on his post (2 posts back) was true. The term "no brainer" is not always applicable but it is with a station at Aztec West. It would also be about the closest that Metrobust integrates with the rail system.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: didcotdean on April 05, 2018, 19:15:42
I guess the same degree of consultation was made for this (re-)naming as done for the 'Elizabeth Line'.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: johnneyw on April 05, 2018, 19:22:19
Now, what do people think of the renaming of the Second Severn Crossing? The Prince of Wales Bridge.

well

Quote
Labour Cardiff Central MP Jo Stevens accused Mr Cairns of "wasting time on PR projects".

"No tidal lagoon, no post-Brexit replacement funding, no rail electrification to Swansea but the Tory Secretary of State has managed to get a bridge renamed," she said.

I hope the renaming wasn't as expensive as the electrification to Swansea would have been!

It's good to see a smaller project near Pilning going ahead - perhaps that will set a precedent for another (http://www.sewweb.info)

Blinkin' flip! I've just realised that I've actually been quoted on that "spoof" proposal on the above link. It's genuine, I did write it, either on the forum or possibly on something like an old FOSBR survey. A lot of the other quotes look a little more spurious though!


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: grahame on April 05, 2018, 19:25:24
If only the link Grahame added on his post (2 posts back) was true. The term "no brainer" is not always applicable but it is with a station at Aztec West. It would also be about the closest that Metrobust integrates with the rail system.

You keep telling 'em, I'll keep suggesting it, and somewhere the penny might drop.  It won't come from here, but it may be a brilliant idea that a politician thinks of in the next few years ...

But did you see how costly it would be?

(http://www.sewweb.info/sewweb_costcompare.jpg)


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: johnneyw on April 05, 2018, 19:35:40
I fear the full proposals would cost a tad more than the projection but would still be good value for money.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: grahame on April 05, 2018, 20:24:04
I fear the full proposals would cost a tad more than the projection but would still be good value for money.

It could do ... depending on who and how you get to plan and build it and whether you let a few years inflation get in the way. I'm sure you could add plenty of bells and whistles to eat up a few more million.  One lift, no bridges, no trackwork.  No public toilets. More controversially, no long public consultation but rather a shorter period of checking around.  You may add a second access / flight of steps at the Welsh end of Aztec West and get them sponsored by the businesses that would benefit.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: johnneyw on April 05, 2018, 21:15:01
I fear the full proposals would cost a tad more than the projection but would still be good value for money.

It could do ... depending on who and how you get to plan and build it and whether you let a few years inflation get in the way. I'm sure you could add plenty of bells and whistles to eat up a few more million.  One lift, no bridges, no trackwork.  No public toilets. More controversially, no long public consultation but rather a shorter period of checking around.  You may add a second access / flight of steps at the Welsh end of Aztec West and get them sponsored by the businesses that would benefit.

Yes, banish completely the malaise of long public consultations and GRIP with a carefully measured dose of JFDI.



Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 05, 2018, 21:57:44
So it's going to be the PoW Bridge. Hmmmmm...


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: JayMac on April 05, 2018, 23:07:13
So it's going to be the PoW Bridge. Hmmmmm...



Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: welshman on April 05, 2018, 23:35:28
A straw poll of everyone I've spoken to about it today has expressed incredulity about the decision to call the SSC the PoWB.  (Other descriptive terms are available - none of them complimentary).





Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: TonyK on April 06, 2018, 16:19:07
Hardly seems to have carried the mood of the nation, has it? And will it be Pont Tywysog Cymru on the way back? (With apologies for any unmutated consonants)


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Tim on April 06, 2018, 21:38:34
The reduction in tolls is welcome, as is their abolition later this year.

Now, what do people think of the renaming of the Second Severn Crossing? The Prince of Wales Bridge.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-wales-43647151

I'm in agreement with fellow republicans. Just so unimaginative to name it after Brian.

Why couldn't there have been a public vote on a new name? Bridgey McBridgeface would have been so much better.  :P ;) ;D

I am a very slight republican but renaming the bridge after the PoW irks me for another reason.  It just strikes me as not especially British to name bit of public infrastructure after prominent people.  It is the kind of thing that they would do in France or America where every airport or bridge is named after some famous person or other.  There is even an airport in America which manages to shoe-horn the name of two presidents into its title (Ronald Regan Washington National)


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: grahame on April 06, 2018, 22:17:34
Perhaps they could choose a name from the 100 Welsh Heroes list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_Welsh_Heroes) ... or from 100 English Heroes for the sake of equality


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: TonyK on April 06, 2018, 23:12:41
Part of Banbury Hospital, where my first grandchild was born, is named after my late grandmother.

She was Mrs E Ward.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: paul7575 on April 06, 2018, 23:32:02
Part of Banbury Hospital, where my first grandchild was born, is named after my late grandmother.

She was Mrs E Ward.

You were lucky.  If it had been named after Mr E Ward you might never have found it...

Paul


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: Bmblbzzz on April 07, 2018, 10:11:25
Part of Banbury Hospital, where my first grandchild was born, is named after my late grandmother.

She was Mrs E Ward.
;D

Perhaps they could choose a name from the 100 Welsh Heroes list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_Welsh_Heroes) ... or from 100 English Heroes for the sake of equality
A different name at each end...


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: TonyK on April 09, 2018, 16:22:51
You were lucky.  If it had been named after Mr E Ward you might never have found it...

Paul

 ;D


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: johnneyw on February 12, 2020, 10:48:05
BBC Radio Bristol News today has an article of the effects of the removal of the tolls on both the Severn Bridges. As predicted, motor traffic has seen a big increase which has (equally predictably) caused difficulties and delays.  The article goes on to cite examples of people having to move home or change jobs as a consequence.
Grist to the mill surely for SEWWEB?


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: broadgage on February 12, 2020, 11:12:59
What a surprise, making road transport cheaper encourages more traffic, and therefore more carbon emissions.
Meanwhile the greener option of rail transport continues to get more expensive, and less attractive.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 12, 2020, 17:48:53
...though trains continue to get busier as well of course.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: TaplowGreen on February 12, 2020, 18:17:58
What a surprise, making road transport cheaper encourages more traffic, and therefore more carbon emissions.
Meanwhile the greener option of rail transport continues to get more expensive, and less attractive.

………..seek not for whom the bridge tolls.


Title: Re: Severn Bridge tolls
Post by: TonyK on February 12, 2020, 20:02:53
What a surprise, making road transport cheaper encourages more traffic, and therefore more carbon emissions.

Unless they are all electric or hydrogen cell.



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