Great Western Coffee Shop

Can't say too much but it appears that thourough passenger counts are being made for some stations in order to speed up some "High speed" services! at last!

Oh!  No chance of HSTs stopping at Keyham, then, vacman??  :P

Good Idea. An extra unit might allow for this loss.

Bloody hope not! he he, in all seriousness though, some of these stops on late night services is pointless, many of the Saltash, St Germans, Lostwithiel, Par, Camborne, Hayle and St Erth stops could be taken out without any great hardship, a lot of the time we pick noone up and drop noone off on most of the late night trains!

1903 Paddinton - Penzance maybe!

I can understand that one stopping as it's the last train down, my issue is with the 1406 and 1703 from Padd stopping Saltash, St Germans and Lostwithiel from the new timetable when there is a 1755 UNIT going non stop from Plymouth to Liskeard! durrrrr, units were invented to stop at these glorified halts and HST's weren't!

I rather hesitate to ask this, vacman, but did they even ask for local views from those such as yourself, 'on the ground', when they were designing these timetable 'improvements'?

Silly question, I suspect?  ::)

I do know that the introduction of the 1755 ply-pnz was a last minute decision to cover for XC so may have been hastilly planned.

With the introduction of this unit it should stop at the stations like Saltash and St Germans, as at these stations. The dwell time seems to be much longer for the 1406ex Paddington, than any of the other stations it stops at. I believe this is due to passengers not shutting the door, and passengers being in the wrong portion of the train to alight, also sometimes it is very difficult to walk through the 1725 from Plymouth, due to over crowding, which slows down alighting. But these factors also occur at other stations, and the train does not take 3 - 4 minutes to move again, even at unmanned stations like Lostwithiel and Par. Possibly in May they may be able to change the timetable for this to happen.

Yes I know Richard Bickford mentions that the Saltash has a line speed of 15mph so it doesn't add much time to the train, because it has to slow anyway. The train is regularly sitting at Saltash and St Germans for 3-4 minutes easily when it is meant to sit there for about a minute. The 1406 ex Penzance can also be delayed at St Germans, because of bad rail conditions delaying the 1706ex Plymouth to Liskeard. There is more information about infrastructure priorities in Cornwall which gives more information about signalling in this area if I remember correctly.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=3009.0 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=3009.0)

The 1406 ex Paddington in the new timetable if running late could be made to run fast, to Liskeard if the train is running late, as the 1755 will quite easily be able to carry the passengers for Saltash and St Germans. This is a sensible idea as the current 1755 train quite often catches up the HST around the St Austell area if the 1725 is running late, or has been sitting at the small stations for longer than timetabled. Another suggestion is if the 1725 is running about 30 minutes late, run the 1755 30 minutes early from Plymouth, if it is already in the station.

well lets hope common sense prevails and HST's once again become "high speed"

I'm sure it does HSTs no good at all stopping and starting all the time as they were not designed to be used like local stopping trains but FGW have little choice owing to lack of DMU rolling stock to provide more local stopping services.

I guess it is time to make some comment.

Saltash passengers are pretty good now at shutting doors. i personally catch the 1406 ex Paddington almost every day. I am normally in Coach A where there are not normally any overcrowding issues, except during school holidays. I am normally first off the train and walk up the platform shutting any doors that are left open, but that doesn't often happen now. I am normally still leaving the station when the train leaves. I'll take a bit more interest in dwell times, but late night trains are in and out in less than a minute even when there are only 5 pr 6 getting off an already pretty empty train.

I'll keep defending HST stops at Saltash, we are no village halt, the town is bigger than Bodmin or Redruth, much bigger than Liskeard, Hayle or Par, by some way. Passenger numbers are steadily rising, and we are starting to get the kind of service the town deserves.

I know FGW have carried out some passenger counts on the 2011 ex Penzance, this is a sparsly used service and some stops could be replaced by the later running DMU service returning from Falmouth.

I dread the idea of head counting at this time of year to justify stops - I can see St Erth being dropped.
I visit Saltash now & again to birdwatch at Kingsmill Lake....'ups' don't stop so I go to Plymouth and return by train or (usually) get a PlusBus ticket (bargain) and return by the extremely regular services.
Plymouth PlusBus is really good the area covered is huge..west of Saltash to Eburton....however when I get to St Erth following a delayed HST there's no cheap option to get home as St Ives has no PlusBus.

'First' also has a transport monopoly here as they also own Truronian Buses...I think they ought to honour a route whether you have a rail or road ticket.

Also...anyone know why 'peak times' are enforced down here...I arrive at St Ives station with maybe a dozen fellow passengers....Ok summer is busy but not before 9am....I then arrive at St Erth where some more passengers join us...whatever service we depart St Erth on is mostly empty yet FGW want me to pay a large amount more than someone joining the same service at Truro.
Overcrowding is not a problem down here on early 'ups'......it certainly can be on 'school out downs' but they bear no penalty.
   
 
 

The "up's" are all quite busy in the morning, not overcrowded but certainly busy. As for comparing Saltash to Bodmin and Redruth I think you need to look at the passenger numbers! Saltash may be getting busier but it's a drop in the ocean compared to Redruth! At the end of the day FGW are becoming concerned at the extra wear and tear on HST's from stopping at small stations and I think we all agree that unit's are far better suited to stopping at these stations, for e.g. the 2026 dep from Plymouth, have never seen more than two people get off at Saltash on that train and have never seen anyone get on, and on the same train never seen anyone get on or off at St Germans or Lostwithiel. the 1406 ex Padd can have a few at Saltash but only people coming back from Plymouth who could be catered for far better with a sprinter!

Don't worry, I am not trying to compare passenger numbers. Just relative town sizes that should give an indication of potential numbers. Without a doubt Saltash has much, much more to come in terms of numbers. Give us a chance. In the end higher numbers will mean higher revenues for FGW, so I hope they stick with us.

I am pretty determined to get our numbers up well above a number of Cornish stops, and I think we will get there.

As for the 1406 ex Paddinghton, this is used by a mix of commuters and long distance users. People are starting to rediscover the trains at Saltash, with the direct HST's helping in that. Our counts on this and the 2026 from Plymouth show good numbers, certainly more than two, but I certainly don't count every train..

But it is not just about the timetable, we have lots to do in terms of promotion of services, and enhancement at the station. Soon to come is better lighting, CCTV, more seating and other DDA work. The entrance to the Cornwall bound platform leads straight onto the road, this will be sorted soon. With a bit of luck even the former station will building will see some action soon.

Bodmin Parkway and Redruth are both railheads for the area and not just the towns.

Population sizes don't really account for much though. Torbay as a whole (brixham, Paignton, Torquay) has a larger population than Exeter and Oxford, the latter with a half hourly fast service in the direction of London!

Point taken, but please don't refer to us as a village style halt!

We have the position to be a railhead for a number of villages, and small towns stretching as far as Callington to the North. For westbound travel much of the western and northern part of Plymouth, could use Saltash rather than attempt to get into Plymouth station.

There are some that alreday do this, but there is much more potential.

Any sugestions in boosting numbers are always received with thanks.

I agree though that Saltash deserves a decent service, when ever driving into Cornwall it can be seen that the area is fairly substantial. Perhaps some publicity regarding some bargains on trains from Saltash, Groupsave maybe? Expecially with the new toll fares on the road bridge which might increase numbers.

I have talked to some people in that live in Saltash and they insist that the town is in Devon.  I have always thought it was in Cornwall.  Does anyone know anything about this?

The River Tamar has historically been the border between Devon & Cornwall (afaik!!) so would presume is in Cornwall!

Cornish through and through.

We defend the border!

I'll certainly beg to differ on the 2026, i've worked it quite a lot and never seen more than two people get off at Saltash!

The tourist industry appears to agree with you - Saltash is in Devon

http://www.bramblesguide.co.uk/bed-and-breakfasts/devon/saltash.htm

Except when it doesn't!

http://www.bramblesguide.co.uk/bed-and-breakfasts/cornwall/saltash.htm

Try a more official site.

http://www.visitcornwall.com/site/about-cornwall/map-of-area

or even

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cornwall/content/articles/2008/05/09/history_saltashwalk_feature.shtml

Also, notice the 'Welcome to Cornwall' signs at Saltash station and on the road bridge.

Saltash did used to be in Devon. The old boundary marker is still between Cawsand and Kingsand. Perhaps they are all living in the past!!

I don't think we were ever part of Devon. Kingsand was but that is miles away from here. In fact St Budeaux was almost a part of Cornwall, with a few areas still belonging to Cornwall County Council.

'During the Civil War, Plymouth and its surrounding villages (including St. Budeaux) swore an oath to die for the Parliamentarian cause. They were besiegied by the Royalist Cornwall just across the water, which took control of St. Budeaux and used the church as a garrison. The church was virtually destroyed by the war's end and was not restored until 1655.'

For more Saltash history see
http://www.royalalbertbridge.co.uk/STC_Leaflet1_History_of_Saltash.pdf

Saltash is well and truely Cornwall! the Tamar being the official boundry.

It must be borne in mind that the revision of HST's stopping at 'small' stations' are not extra services for these stations but in the main are replacing previous DMU services. If the HST's did not stop at these stations the services would be lost. I am sure most of us would not like to see reductions in services anywhere on the line.

But in a realist world what is the point of stopping certain services when nobody will get on or off?

1703 ex Paddington - 4 off 1 on at Saltash last night. Train was stopped for less than 40 seconds and the TM did not get out of the train. From the carraiges that I saw, there were not many on the train.

4 off, MASSIVE passenger flow there!

And what's the cost of starting/stopping ?