Great Western Coffee Shop

That's from the FGW ticket site.

Something I wondered about this morning ... if a T.O.C. chooses not to have an appropriate ticket machine at [station in question], why can't the advanced ticket be issued by the train manager?  They're electronically connected, after all, so there isn't a technology problem. Perhaps it's a way of pricing passengers away from the smaller station?

Going on line at the moment, and checking fares.   I can get a 37 SWI - PAD return going on the next available train and coming back at lunch time.  Or I can pay 133 for MKM - PAD going on the next available train and coming back on the first train after lunch.

1) because TM are too busy; and 2) because it would be seen as undermining the "buy before your board message".

The solution would be to allow you to print your own tickets at home.  I know that there are issues with forgery, but there are ways around this (afterall the Royal Mail lets you print your own stamps and can check to see if they are genuine)

Like this ticket I printed before leaving for India:

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d134/rupereeno/ticket.jpg)

Passenger no 1 has to have the ID card with the stated number, otherwise the ticket is not valid. In Britain, as guards have credit card terminals, it should be sufficient to carry the card used to buy the ticket online.

Something I wondered about this morning ... if a T.O.C. chooses not to have an appropriate ticket machine at [station in question], why can't the advanced ticket be issued by the train manager?  They're electronically connected, after all, so there isn't a technology problem. Perhaps it's a way of pricing passengers away from the smaller station?


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No they are not electrically connected so the train manager would not be able to issue the ticket.  Something for the future perhaps but there would be a cost to develop the software / hardware

My advice would be to purchase a Chippenham -> Paddington ticket (and appropriate return) online and collect them in advance at Chippenham station.

I've quite often sat on the 6:45 pm train from Swindon to Melksham, shown the TM my return ticket covering me for U1 to Chippenham and explained I'll need a ticket to cover me for the missing part of the journey from Chippenham to Melksham, only for him to smile back and say "that's OK mate, don't worry about it".

On the odd occasion I've been together enough to collect tickets in advance from Chippenham (say for example if I am travelling to London on Tuesday and Thursday, I will collect the Thursday tickets on arrival at Chippenham the previous Tuesday), and got on the morning train up to Swindon from Melksham, the same thing has happened: show the TM my pre-purchased ticket covering me for a return from Chippenham to Paddington, say I need a ticket to Chippenham, and he or she has usually (not always) let me off the Melksham-Chippenham part of the journey.

Really kind of them to do that, and probably completely against regulations, but it's always nice to be on the receiving end of a little goodwill, especially in this day and age.

You think thats bad. FGW wanted ^272 for an anytime return for 2 adults from BPW > paddington for next week,

I think not.

Agree re goodwill, but it won't do anything for the footfall count at Melksham.

Yes,

I had to change my advance ticket just before I went and had to pay for a new ticket at the station, could not get a refund or pay extra because it was advanced ticket.

Just travelled on DB with advance ticket printed with Bar Code and show credit card and because there were no decent fares for London travelling after 9.25 from Cardiff returning about 6.30 on a Monday used Megabus from Cardiff for 24 pounds for 2 people printed at my printer will be using this in future can at least book a couple of buses and still not pay the cost I lost through being unable to change a ticket.

Basset

It's made clear when you buy an Advance ticket that there are no refunds or changes.

I don't think it IS clear to everyone.  I don't think the conditions are as widely known we sometimes think.  I know the conditions appear on the website when you book, but not everyone reads this (even though they should) When you buy an airline ticket or book a hotel room online the ticket/recipt has pages of terms and conditions.  If you book an advanced ticket on line, the bit that arrives through the post does not say "non-refundanble, non-exchangable, if you travel on another train you will need to buy a new ticket before you board" anywhere does it?  I happen to think that it ought to.  Anything that reduced teh number of people breaking the rules and getting into conflict as a result must be a good thing

The ticket says to be used only with reservations. Do some people really suffer from a complete lack of common sense?

Fraid so, that's why it's much easier to run a freight train.

When you buy it at a station you get a little card with it explaining the terms, and like you say, when you buy it online you agree to it by ticking the box, i've got no sympathy for people who can't be arsed to read the small print!

A little harsh I think the railways don't help with the complicated fare structure and ticket types.

When you buy a plane ticket or a theartre ticket it is pretty obvious that it is for a particular flight or performance. With plane tickets it usually states if it can be changed and what cost.

Rail sells tickets for anytrain, trains after certain times of day (sometimes with restrictions on return travel  as well) and tickets for particular trains. The latter causing the most trouble, like the post on here about the lady from Manchester who caught the train before after asking staff. With a half hourly service this is likely to happen if the passssenger asks the next train to London assumming theirs is next. It will be interesting to see how Virgin get on with a 20 minute service to Birmingham. After all you don't get a 20 minute service with flights.

Also the differential between the cheapest and anytime tickets is too wide which also exacerbates the problem if someone boards the wrong train.  In many cases you can buy two advanced tickets for conceutative trains cheaper than an anytime ticket, so if you're not sure what train you might catch this could be a cheaper option.

I think that was part of the rationale behind bringing all of the advance-purchase tickets under a common branding with a common name: at least now passengers aren't faced with a whole different array of silly ticket names. The NRES website (and no doubt those of the TOCs) clearly state that Advance tickets are available only on the date and trains booked. And it's also printed on the front of them: tickets issued using STAR or similar systems have "booked train only" in the validity section, and I think TRIBUTE-issued tickets have a line of similar text (although these seem to be dying out).

But then again, long experience teaches me that people don't read their tickets, never mind the terms and conditions!

What is doesn't say is that if you travel on the next train you will be charged a second full fare (and possibly a penalty fare) and that money already paid will not be taken into account.  It might be obvious to some people but there are plenty of people who don't know how the system works.  The ignorant are sometimes people new to rail and it is bad business practice to start fining new customers even if they couldn't be bothered to read the small print if it means that they never travel on a train again.  In the current issue of Rail Barry Doe reports on a passenger who had an open ticket and reservation who didn't realise that his ticket was valid on any train that day.  You also hear of people who think that they need to buy a separate ticket for each leg of their journey when they are changing trains.   Previous postings on this forum reveal that some members didn't realise that an advanced fare might be able to be refunded at a ticket office for a handling charge (this is all teh kind of information you get printed on an airline ticket.

I am all for coming down hard on fare evaders but the flip side of this is that information on ticket validity as well as the consequences of travelling outside of it need to be explained much better- otherwise in addition to the fraudulent, you end up presecuting people who are merely stupid, lazy, confused or ignorant and who might make good customers if they could only be educated.

So come on TOCs.  Lets have better information on the back of tickets and if you wan't people to buy before they board how about painting this message on doors of your trains?  I know it is pandering to the stupid, but I can't see it doing any harm.   

Yes I thought I read on this forum that advanced fares could be refunded. I remember APEX fares could not. What confuses me and does not help is when you actually go to FGW ticket site. I have just tried this

Cardiff to London going out on the 10th February after 9.00 am and return 12th February after 12.00, the first screen comes up single tickets no advance singles are refundable but the 60.00 pound off-peak single is. Therefore on that page the cheapest flexable return ticket is 120.00 before peak.

If you go to the return page, bearing in mind I asked for a return you are presented with a off-peak return at 61.00 pound which is refundable.

Like I said I now think I understand the ticket prices but it is still confusing and would it not be easier for everybody if they put something like Non Refudable / changeable on the screen.

If the government bodies meant all their fine words in numerous documents about "modal shift" they would address these issues. However for them it is enough that the train companies can advertise a ticket from Penzance to Aberdeen for a fiver.

There seems to be a school of thought that people ought to be prepared to make the effort to learn all the Mysteries of Railway Ticketing. Whyever should they? if they find it too much hassle they will drive. When you drive you don't have to plan your journey 12 weeks in advance to avoid paying 10 times as much for your petrol. When you drive you don't have to take a detour adding 100 miles to your journey because it's a Saturday. When you drive you are guaranteed a seat in your car. And so on.

I'm not against "demand management" altogether... some kind of premium for peak services is reasonable to spread demand and make more efficient use of resources. But the current ticketing situation is absurd and perverse. And the government's long term strategy is not to have less of the "demand management" on the railways.... instead, they want to progressively introduce it on the roads.... maybe when the London congestion charge reaches ^200 per day there will actually be some "modal shift" back to the railways.  ::)

I have got a few of those.  Darn good system IMO and it works very well.  The scrum for unreserved 2nd class at Mumbai CST is almost as bad as the morning scenes at Yate though. ;D

The move towards a book in advance or pay expensive fares system is not helping with any modal shift.  If anything it's making the car more attractive as it does not cost you more if you don't plan your journey in advance.

Well said, but then the Ministry of Motoring (DafT) doesn't actually want people to switch to rail as it would mean more investment to cater for the extra passengers.

Yes but they also don't want to invest in road building and tell people they should get out of their cars.

The only reasonable way to implement a reasonable ticket price structure is to price all journeys by disatance, and whether they use a station or line at peak time.

The arcane pricing method that currently allows me to save ^25 per week by buying two weekly season tickets, rather that one is maddening.

Ticket types should be

open - any day, any train on that day
day open - any train on a set day
fixed - specific train on a set day

and the cost of the ticket should relate to distance travelled, and congestion of the route.

The tickets are priced by congestion of the route.  That is why it is cheaper for you to buy two tickets.  In the old BR days you werent allowed to use combination season tickets so fares were set depending how busy /  congested the route was.  I assume that one of you season tickets was for a route that was not so busy so was set cheaper than the busier longer journey. Of course we are talking about how busy it was 15 years ago so a lot can have change since then.

Since privatisation season tickets became regulated meaning that it is no longer possible to get rid of these anomolies. Well unless a rail company is going to reduce the price of a season ticket which is not going to happen !!

FGW reduced the Cornish seasons quite heavily when they restricted the local railcard to off peak only, a falmouth-Truro 7 day went from about ^17 to ^11.60.

Nigel Harris in this weeks Rail writing about Virgin WCML VHF timetable (train every 20 minutes from London to Manchester) asks what is the point of spending ^9 Billion of taxpayers money to upgrade a line to "turn up and go" frequencies when their are no longer any affordable turn up and go fares?

Nigel's point is absolutely spot on. And why fill all the seats with people travelling for ^9 or whatever, so full fare passengers still can't get a seat.

And why dont they put the season tickets up.  If they do it for the new javelin service surely the same should happen on the WCML?

Running a service every 20 minutes to me implies a turn up and go service so surely fares should be adjusted to encourage just that.