Great Western Coffee Shop

Well, wasnt sure where to post this but here comes the FGW buffet car farce. From December 2007 FGW will have 53 HST sets, but only 26 will convey buffet cars, the rest will be 7 coach 'high density sets'.

Out of the 26 sets that have buffet cars only 16 will have the 407xx series capable of conveying a proper restaurant service, so as far as I can tell like the rest of the franchise it will be a complete farce, the sets will never keep to booked jobs so we can see the 18:03 ex PAD 'Golden Hind' to Penzance as a 7 coach train with no buffet car and just a trolley that can move nowhere on a Friday night due to passenger numbers.

First 'First for being tight and not leasing 27 buffet coachs'. How on earth such a complete piss poor company can run a train service that could be the countires best is beyond me.....

Please, please, get First outa here for the sake of everyone that wants rail to suceed.......

Help, SACK FARCE GROUP NOW.......

FGW think that by reducing the fleet to 7 coaches it will help them improve the abmismal record on punctuality between London and Bristol. The amount of padding between Chippenham-Bristol is a a complete farce and should not be allowed as it only hides the chronic under investment thats needed on Brunel's railway.

So if they are operating a trolley service on this route we can expect to see more of Alison wheeling her goodies trolley down the train then  ;D

Problem with trolleys, is you are going to loose out on the hot goodies, like Bacon Rolls

I thought the plan was to use longer trains, with 8-10 carriages rather than replace the buffet carriage.

There is a desperate need for more capacity covering Bristol (Parkway+Temple Meads), Bath, Swindon and Chippenham in the morning and evening peak times. Simply replacing the buffet carriage will not address this, and remove from FGW of a good revenue stream.

 

See link below.
http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=438.msg1292#msg1292

The buffet not only provides food, but also a number of First Class seats.

I can't see performance improving. With the way some of the drivers drive it is no wonder as to why they loose time at every single station!

I am at a loss to understand the thinking behind the FGW decision on Buffet Cars.

Why didnt FGW take a decision to refurbish the buffet cars and REMOVE the 1st class seating and replace with high density standard class seating.

Majority of passengers satisfied.

Probably too simple a solution for FGW management.

By the way the 1557 PNZ - PAD service today was reportedly running today with no toilets in use. long time to wait to spend a penny.

Err ... I appreciate the feelings but are we getting a little too personal here?   Let's disagree with the decisions where we feel that's appropriate but not vere off towards the name calling.

thanks for the edit - much appreciated!

good news. the new MD of FGW has told staff today that more thinking is needed in relation to the removal of buffet cars from HST's on the Paddington to Bristol and Paddington to Cardiff routes.

Once the new timetable has been in for a couple of weeks a number of 'trial' sets will come into service to see if the system is workable and of benefit to customers and staff.

At the end of January the company will obtain feedback from staff and customers alike and then decide what to do next.

Obviously its very important that comments and feedback both good and bad, are made to FGW about this issue.

Excellent news!

Article on this (link below.)
http://www.rmtbristol.org.uk/2007/12/dismay_as_train_firm_announces.html#more

I think they should look into EMTs methods, install a Meridian style galley in an FO at one end of the train (opposite to TGS)....

Am I missing something here, We need more seats on the Trains not less, plus making 7 coach and 8 coach HST will only cause operational problems. My answer is get the buffet turned round so Kitchen Counter is next to First Class whip out the First Class Seats and install Standard Seats. Everyone wins 2 cars first class 5, 1/2 cars standard class.
Such a good Idea, Cheque payable to Smokey please FGW.
Oh I forgot Don't think FGW have a staff suggestion scheme, to tight to pay out.

I agree that is what they should do.

Maybe push the boat out and have some tables in the buffet!!

Agree entirely, and also make the table seats reservable only by groups of 3 or 4, so that they can get the benefit of actually being able to talk as a group. I think you'd find it would be the most popular coach by far. 

Virgin did that to it's buffets!

Pop quiz
It's 1750 on a weekday, your nearest 2+8 HST with a 407xx series buffet car has just left Reading for Paddington... What you gonna use for the 1803 Paddington to Penzance...  ???

Not impressed with this statemment ! The majority of time lost at stations is due to passengers all herding into one door and/or leaving them open !  I presume you refer to speed on approach ? many factors influence this, railhead conditions, RED SIGNAL at the end of the platform (I'm sure you'd prefer a slower approach rather than cancelled train due to SPAD ! ) too fast an approach requires heavier braking resulting in passengers falling into each other, crowded platforms with people leaning over the edge.... etc. etc I could go on

 Unless you have actually driven a train I suggest you are not in a position to criticise, the majority of Driver's are professionals who take pride in what they do.

Thank You..  Happy New Year !

A set thats in Padd???

1. Don't start me on that - there are so many stations which everyone has to get in 1 door at! To name a few examples where it happens:
Chippenham
Westbury
Swindon (P4)
Reading

2. Westbury is a sod for that one! P3 to Up Main is approch controlled - worse still if it don't change the back of the train is not in the platform

3. Yep, and rightly so!

Yes true, perhaps some of it is down to FGW, for example Reading - Swindon being timetabled at 110 mph running!

Just for info, the 07.51 Paddington to Great Malvern and 11.06 return has been operated most of the week by a seven-car, non-buffet HST, with trolley service.

Reasonably punctual westbound, though that probably has more to do with scanty passenger numbers towards Worcester at this time of the day than any reduction in train weight.

Worked a 2+7 the other day (with a buffet-no coach E!) in Cornwall on a train that we usually lose time on and we were early into every station!

Western HST fleet were built as 2 + 7 train sets, the East coast fleet 2 + 8 but worked a much flatter route for the greater part.

They were however soon made up to 2+8, with the cross country sets as 2+7.

Some East Coast sets also had back to back buffets.

Formed: TF, TF, TRFB, TRFB, TS, TS, TS, TS, TS

Whatr sort of service do first class get?

Or are we expected to wander to Carriage A to hunt down the trolley

Not something that is acceptable

Sorry to wonder into the middle of the topic, just a simple question here that really has nothing to do with this topic.

When you say something like 2+7 or 2+8 about the HST's, do you mean two power cars and 7/8 charrages?

They shouldn't get rid of buffet cars or anything... another question, do trolley's work on HST's at all?

No, First Class get their own trolley, so you don't need to wander into 'scum' class  ::)

Correct, 2 + 8 means 2 power cars and 8 carriages.

Except at weekends apparently

Apparently there was a 2+7 trial set going around the other day.

Passengers prefer the trolleys, according to FGW (link below.)
http://thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=145365&command=displayContent&sourceNode=145191&contentPK=19590089&folderPk=83726&pNodeId=144922

Personally, so was I.

Was very impressed with the trolley on SWT coming to my seat before reaching Honiton from Exeter. If a train is busy, I dont want to leave my bags/seat as i often travel on my own.

I've never seen a photograph of East Coast HST with Back to Back Buffets, yes there was were 2 catering cars one Restuarant Buffet in First class end and a Buffet in the Second Class section, think each Catering car was 3rd vehicle from Power car.

I wonder what sort of question they asked to get the feedback. I bet they asked everyone who had just been served at their seat "Do you appreciate the opportunity to be served at your seat?" and of course the answer is "yes".

A better survey would be to survey the whole train and ask whether they preferred a trolley which comes to their seat once or twice in the journey, and serves a limited selection of drinks and nibbles, or a buffet car that they can visit anytime during the journey and which offers a wider selection of hot and cold food.

But of course they wouldn't ask that as it wouldn't give them the asnwer they wanted.

Anyone from FGW know how this survey was carried out?

Based on the train I was on today.. 14:47 Paddington - Great Malvern the survey I believe was being done by an external company. Didn't get a look at the form unfortunately so couldn't tell you what questions being asked.

Sorry to dig this up again, but what is the score on buffet cars?

Have FGW and XC given up on this stupid idea yet?

One word: No.

FGW have it on some services, XC are running a trolley on their Summer HSTs.

Trials are 'on-going', no idea on the expected date for decisions, as i'm not that high up the food chain  ::) ;D

Don't know but the remaining unrefurbed ones are being dynamic lined, preumably so they don't stick out like a sore thumb.  There was an interview with Charles Howson(?) recently on Spotlight (at the launch of the revamped Night Riveria) where he said the new management were now listening to what customers want. So, over to you Charles.....

Mass removal of buffet cars is dead in the water, problem is that FGW don't have enough buffet cars for all it's HST's at present. So there should be a maximum of 3 HST's out each day without them. Further problem is the buffet cars numbered 409xx are worse than useless and aren't suitable for restaurant / chef services.
You spend ^ on refurbishing your HST fleet, stripping the coaches to a shell and rebuilding them, but you still kit the buffet car out to 3 different specs, 407xx, 402xx & 408xx

FGW have 53 buffet cars i believe.

Brainwashed!!

How do you think it will end up, oooooo?

And ten years later they are gone, stupid idea.

I wondered where I'd parked that time machine  ;D

You left it in the Buffet Car Lee.

Probably in a buffet car that is being scrapped.

More seriously, might it be worth merging this thread with the other major thread about catering ?

Many thanks WP. Inside, I found a bacon baguette, packet of Tyrells crisps, pack of shortbread, and someone who wanted to know where the trolley was.

In all seriousness, what orange juice does GWR sell in Standard Class? Any idea of the brand?  ;)

Hopwoods - sour, very expensive and rarely available  ;)