Great Western Coffee Shop

Early days I know, but I was wondering what the initial signs were for usage regarding the new timetables on the branch lines and places like Ivybridge?

Half hourly service for the St.Ives branch ALL day, including after 6p.m. totally pointless! What a waste of resources.

Would you say that it was quieter this particular year, or is it just the case that every January is the same?

Probably no different this year, but still no reason to run EXTRA services AND a two car set starting from Dec timetable. The only time it would have been required was New Years Eve, and guess what - there was a single 153 on there! DOH!

Am I correct in thinking that the set in question is a Class 150 unit?

As opposed to it running once an hour and having the unit sitting doing nothing for 30 minutes each hour then..?

What are your observations on intial usage of the hourly Barnstaple service, TerminalJunkie, and what rolling stock is currently being used to provide the services?

I'm not really the best person to ask as I'm now a full-time homeworker; I've only been on the train once since last July!

The one trip I did make was on the 11.43 Barnstaple to Yeoford on December 19th*, and given that it was just five days into the new timetable I was slightly surprised that the train (one of the extra services) was over half full.

It was a Pacer both ways, which rather spoilt my day though...

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* ...for Christmas Lunch at the Mare and Foal with some of the people I used to work with in Exeter, one of whom happened to be the ex-wife of the train driver who took me home afterwards!

Thanks TerminalJunkie, sounds promising.

Anybody tried out/worked the new services on the other branch lines?

The new looe service is pointless. I year from staff that only one or two services are busy.

Is it the timings, or that it is too frequent (such a shame trains can't run direct to Plymouth).

And as for the St Ives line half hourly service - how is it a waste of stock when it has a dedicated unit? ;)

How's the Newquay (the highlight of the timetable for many) branch doing?

150/1 today

Pretty well all the Barnstaple services are now diagrammed for either 142 or 143 operation nowadays. Only the first round trip in the mornings is shown as a 150.

No idea, don't think there is much in looe out if season worth visiting!

I'd also be interested to know what usage is like on the Newquay services.

I have used the new Newquay branch line services regularly since the new timetable. Several times I have ended up being sent by bus from St. Austell with quite regular detours for the bus to Bugle then onto Newquay. The connections are tight travelling from Plymouth especially the 1310 as there are four minutes to change, but the train is not held at Par as it would mess up other connections on the return Journey.

The trains seem busier than they were before the time table started, there were about thirty people on the bus going to Newquay every time when the connection is missed. The first service of the day towards Par typically has about ten to fifteen people onbard when I board with the train stopping at Luxulyan quite regularly.

It is a massive improvement especially with the advance purchase fares that are available for all stations on the branchline from Luxulyan to Newquay going to Plymouth. ^2.50 standard class and ^4.00 first class one way all day. Which makes it cheaper for people from Par to buy a ticket from the branch line and not use the branchline and I know of people that are doing this.

Thanks Chris. Could you possibly clarify a few points for me (and bearing in mind that its still early days):

1) Is that 30 people travelling to Newquay during the middle of day?

2) Is 30 passengers the high end usage-wise, and what would you say average passengers per train was?

3) What percentage of usage increase would you say there was?

4) What rolling stock is generally being used?

5) Any evidence that missed connections/buses are having a negative effect on passenger perception of the service?

1) The thirty people travelling to newquay was about two in the afternoon, catching the bus from St. Austell. When I spoke to a member of platform staff at St. Austell, it is apparantly quite common for them to be using a 33 seater minibus (They said there have always been too many people to warrant sending the passengers in taxis).

2) The minimum i have seen on the train is 12 and the maximum is over 40 on the 1828 ex Par on 05/01/09

3) I have only started using the service since the new timetable.

4) The rolling stock is a class 153.

5) People complain that the bus is sent from Par to St Austell, but this is because Par is generally unstaffed later in the day, and the bus station is right next to St Austell Station, so easier to get onto the bus, with luggage as the car park at Par is not suitable for a bus so you have to walk out to the road. People would like to hear more announcements, if the connection will be missed, not announcing at Lostwithiel to stay on the train to St Austell. They say it is better than going all the way to Truro to be bussed back to Newquay or intermediate stations as St Austell is significantly closer especially for the branch line stations. People do not like the missed connections as the Train is quicker by the time it takes for the bus to arrive. The staff in Plymouth station occasionally give out the wrong information, like saying the late running 1310 will make the connection in Par. It would also help if the staff at st Austell station were informed earlier as sometimes they do not know that they are meant to be organising transport as control do not contact them.

Many thanks again.

Sorry about the confusion over 3)

I asked because you said the trains seem busier than they were before the timetable started. It would be good to make a comparison if any members have relevant info.

Those fares are good! However, what the people at Par are doing is non-legit - look at another post on this forum with more details.

It's a shame those connexions are being missed (although a 4 min connexion should be achievable - come on FGW!) as people WILL be put off. The lack of clarity on announcements will not be helping this.

Its 4 minutes for a reason, it is not a registered connection, you can't expect it to be held for you! It clearly states on the timetable that 5 minutes is the minimum connection time.

It is a registered connection as Par has a minimum connection time of three minutes labelled on all their timetables.

I put that in, as I have been passing the train station, there seems to be more people on the platform, than before the change of timetable.

Really? Very optimistic if walking from one end of an HST over the footbridge.

can you get a seat on the exmouth one yet?

I think the three minute connection at Liskeard is more optimistic

Why is it we can't get connections right in this country?

Is it 3 minutes, 4 minutes or 5 minutes.? If you arrive at the front of an HST and have to walk the length of the train to a footbrdge or subway or lift! How long are you allowed?

It's another case of lack of "attention to detail" not getting it right for every connection at every junction station.

Plus clearly advertising what are guarenteed connections and the conditons under which they are guarenteed.

So you would have to include advice to the TM to advise people wishing to make a particular connection to move down the train to alight. Ideally if travelling with a seat revervations the reservation would have been made in the nearest coach.

Then what happens if the connecting train is late how long will the connection be held? Plus what alternative transport will be provided if the connecting train is later than the holding time.

It's not difficult it just requires "attention to detail."

To answer my own question "Why is it we can't get connections right in this country?" It's because the "bean counters" can't understand how to cost a Network and don't understand that connecting services provide a valuble additional
contribution to the worth of the total network.

Reliable connections will increase rail usage, as many people cannot make the journeys they want without changing trains. Without reliable connections these potential passengers will find alternative means of transport, usually a car.

Running the St Ives half hourly at night is pointless, for e.g. it used to run to connect into/out of mainline trains after about 1800, now any commuters from Penzance have given up as the 1737 from Penzance arrives at St Erth 5 mins after the branch has left, the next one from Penzance is 1905 and arrives at St Erth about 4 mins after the branch has left, no-one wants to sit at St Erth for 25 mins at this time of year, particularly when there is a bus from Penzance to st Ives every half hour direct! those are just a couple of crap connections, if you look through the timetable there's more!

The Newquay is being quite well used with no less than around 20 people on each service.

Oh, and the St Ives is running around empty after about 1800, what a waste of diesel! it should be hourly after 1800 with every trip to/from Penzance.

build it and they will come....

just give it time

I don't suppose the bus is run by First, and it couldn't be that they make more money from bus passengers than train passengers....  ;D

I, personally, think that most trains should be extended to Penzance.

But obviously, that would require 2 units.

And during holiday periods, half hourly is needed in the evening!

before i just looked at how getting from digby to ivybridge would pan out......


im going to drive!!

Without consulting a timetable. 1035 d&s to Exeter sd. Then 1118 to ivybridge (hst)

wasnt saying it was impossible all the swt services call there the plymouth bound anyway
but its not a case of when your ready to leave you can... one way the website brought up before was down to plymouth then back to ivybridge

Ivybridge is best served by road at the end of the day, simply turning off the A38 near Endsleigh garden centre.

While Newquay was busy over the holiday period am not sure the figures on here are fair now the New Year has passed. For example the week just gone the first trip of the day arrived Newquay empty every time and departed with: Mon 4, Tues 0, Weds 1, Thurs 2 passengers........

Realistically the inward journey to Newquay is an ECS that's been put in the timetable. So I'm not suprised it's empty given the time it arrives.

But the outward journey numbers sound disappointing.

yes but your forgetting that the first one usually picks up at St Columb road and Bugle on the way to Par

Fair point, but I think Slippy was quoting the numbers on it when leaving Newquay, not arriving at Par.

I hope the powers that be give this service enough time to develop, as I'm sure once people realise there is a sensibly timed early morning service from Newquay it will build a decent number of passengers. 

Welcome to the forum, slippy, and thanks to the rest of you as well for the continuing usage info.

I haven't seen or heard of any advertising for the Newly improved Newquay service, and it's the public that don't use the trains that need to hear about it.

I just hope the powers that be give the Newquay Line  a couple of years to build up passenger numbers, whilst Timetable changes can kill passenger numbers OVERNIGHT it takes time, lot's of it!! for passenger numbers to build.

There was a press launch before the timetable started, it was on TV radio and in the local rags.

What about a door to door timetable delivery in Newquay and district? Chiltern did a advertising drop around South Bucks when FGW TV services were so poor. I think I may have put it on Coffee Shop.

I agree entirely with smokey's comments about timetable changes killing passenger number overnight.

Perhaps his comment should be tattooed on the back of the wrist of every DafT employee including ministers.

Nice Idea the tattoo's, but why give the DaFT a good (sorry bad) Idea like changing timetables every Month.

Sounds like a good idea as the connections quite frankly are a joke! Is there not still a section of single line though between St Erth and Penzance which could make this sensible idea a non starter?

The door to door delivery should either have happened or be happening very soon (similarly in the Par & St Blazey area).   We placed full page adverts in the Newquay Voice and Newquay Guardian the week before the timetable change with smaller ads the week before that and after too.  We'll be doing more ads during the Spring too.

Certainly agree with Smokey that it takes time for passenger numbers to build.  This is particularly going to be so on the Newquay line as the change is such a big one and there has not been a good year-round timetable on the line for many years.

Richard Burningham
Devon & Cornwall Rail Partnership

It's a short section the last mile or so between Long Rock and Penzance, so shouldn't in itself pose too much of a problem.

However First are already operating a bus service between the towns which is probably more profitable than hiring the extra unit and crew that would be needed for a half hourly train service. So the bad connections at St Erth may not be entirely accidental.

Thanks for that RichardB. From your Devon & Cornwall Rail Partnership perspective, what are your initial observations of usage on the lines within your remit since the December timetable change?

It's too early to say, Lee.

We do passenger counts on all the branch lines we work on in early February.  That will give us a lot more info.

The figures I have seen so far for the branches in 2008 have been very good.  You might almost think we hadn't had two terrible Summers on the trot....

Best wishes,

Richard

Falmouth seems particularly busy these days! particularly in peak!

Story from elsewhere in the area that FGW now serve:

2000 - Passenger numbers growing on a very limited service

May 2001 - timetable recast, with a service more than doubled

Passengers *per service* drop due to recast

Easter 2002 - passenger surveys of numbers on trains reveal low numbers

Passenger numbers grow, summer 2003

Passenger numbers grow, summer 2004

Summer 2004 - consultant study bases 2007 to 2016 service on 2002 survey

Passenger numbers grow, summer 2005

December 2005 - new franchise awarded

April 2006 - new operator takes over

Passenger numbers grow, summer 2006

New Operator slashes services, December 2006

Something of a tragedy - a service that had been bustling in November 2006 had become a near-parliamentary ghost train in January 2007. People had to switch to road.  People had given up their jobs. People were shockingly inconvenienced.

Mistake made by local people along this line?  To assume that it - because it was growing rapidly and getting better used every year from 2001/2 - that it was safe in the hands of the professionals.

The people of Newquay should take great care to bang the drum for their service  and to publicise it and protect it; just because it's newly improved doesn't mean that the bean counters will give it a realistic amount of time before they look to another change ...

I don't think Newquay will have any problems now as it has a dedicated unit that was freed up without any extra cost.

I assumed that the track was single to accommodate the carriage washer and that it used to be dual, on having a look there is only one track west from what was Marazion station up past the Mexico in at Long Rock and some houses would have to come down to dual it.....wonder why they did that ?

I see St Ives branch users up to 430,000 up 30 %.
I'd put money on the whole of St Ives not knowing they can have a day out in Plymouth for ^6.25 or Exeter for ^11 (with railcard)

(most branch users are holidaymakers)

Costs only  slightly less to get to Penzance by bus (10 miles).

Trains with Plusbus or Ride Cornwall tickets are a fantastic way to explore Cornwall...a little extra with a Torbay Plusbus  gets you to Paignton zoo, Living coasts, Kents cavern, Kingswear for Dartmouth, Brixham.
The Dartmouth visit is great as you can have a sea cruise and return by boat up to Totnes to return to Cornwall.

I work a six day week and really look forward to a day off....nothing better than a wander around Exmouth, a sea cruise, walk around Dawlish Warren, stroll down to Dawlish town.....couldn't really do this without trains - long may they continue to run.
       

The stretch from just west of the former Marazion station into Penzance was double track until 1975 and no houses have been built on the formation. The singling was purely an economy measure, as far as I remember. The fact that there were two or three level crossings on that stretch giving access to the beach may also have had something to do with it. The washer does impinge on the former "up" line formation, I think.

Well worth a visit  :)

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I assumed that the track was single to accommodate the carriage washer and that it used to be dual, on having a look there is only one track west from what was Marazion station up past the Mexico in at Long Rock and some houses would have to come down to dual it.....wonder why they did that ?
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The Main Line from Paddington to Penzance USED to be Double through-out except for 1 short piece that was always single.

Would that be where the Royal Albert Bridge is?

Mark

It would :)

That's another point - anyone know the life expectancy of the bridge ?

Well it is 150 years old this year, shame NR couldnt get their fingers out and paint the bloody thing. Although its only superficial (I hope) some of the rust is getting quite severe and its looking quite a state!!

Hopefully a new - straight - double tracked 100 mph bridge will be built soon.

The old one can be turned into a cycle path.

Are you bulldozing most of St Budeaux/Saltash then?

That would not be desirable. :(

Bu what do they do when they want a road / air infrastructure enhancements?

To avoid possible confusion / duplication, may I point out that there is another topic, relating specifically to the Royal Albert Bridge, at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=4211.0

I suspect the Royal Albert Bridge will see our great grandchildren out and quite possibly their great grandchildren too!

It might even last longer than a 1960s bridge not a million miles away.  ;D

The one that is already falling appart......???