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Journey by Journey => Thames Valley Branches => Topic started by: autotank on March 25, 2009, 12:59:50 pm



Title: Reading Green Park
Post by: autotank on March 25, 2009, 12:59:50 pm
This has been cleared by the ORR: http://www.transportbriefing.co.uk/story.php?id=5741

Seems like a very odd way of financing a station - I am very unconvinced about these PPP's. Surely all stations should be owned by NR and not some outside company? I imagine the passenger will end up paying through the nose as usual!

Will it be of much use to those attending the Reading FC ground?


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 25, 2009, 03:00:39 pm
I agree that it's a strange way to finance and operate a station, but that seems to be the way we're heading. Why the extra few pennies to turn it into a 6-car platform can't be found though I don't know.

It could be a very useful station for the Madjeski Stadium as I will be less than a mile away from it. Green Park is already quite a big complex and set to expand further on land nearer to the site of this new station, so it will also prove very popular for people going to work there from Basingstoke and Reading.

It's also very close to the M4, so perhaps there is a 'Reading Parkway' potential that could also be exploited? It's a shame that land on the other side of the tracks is very low-lying and full of lakes as that would have given the site even more potential.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: eightf48544 on March 25, 2009, 04:42:39 pm
Web site says.

"The two-platform station design will accommodate five car train sets, with space for future extensions, connected by a footbridge with disabled access lifts. Work on site is expected to begin by the end of this month."

As industry insider says why not go for 6 * 23m to start. It shouldn't cost too much more.

How close is it to Southcote junction?

Is there room for a Basingstoke train to be stopped in the platform and let another train onto the line and clear Southcote otherwise it could cause delays to Berks and Hants trains.

PPP basically means that whoever rents the station (Netwrokrail?) will pay considerably more to lease the station over many years than had they built it  themselves and paid interest on borrowed capital.




Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Electric train on March 25, 2009, 06:13:10 pm
I think this new station has a lot to do with planning permission for Green Park, Reading Borough has added things like this in other business parks.

Its a good deal for NR they get an increase in train usage hence track access charges without the grief of looking after the station as the landlord.

The new station should be well clear of Southcott Jcn as I think the new station will be quite close to the M4


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: paul7755 on July 10, 2009, 10:51:49 pm
Has anyone seen any signs of activity on the site yet? Ages since I was up that stretch of line unfortunately. 

"Station construction works are scheduled to commence early 2009 and the station should be open by early 2010."
According to this:

http://www.greenparkvillage.co.uk/station.html (http://www.greenparkvillage.co.uk/station.html)

Paul


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Phil on July 11, 2009, 10:16:10 am
No, I went up and down that line last Thursday and there wasn't any indication of activity.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 28, 2010, 10:30:02 pm
No, I went up and down that line last Thursday and there wasn't any indication of activity.

And to confirm that almost a year on, and after the supposed opening date, there's still no sign of any construction work taking place.  Does anybody know what the hold-up is?  Has the scheme been quietly dropped?  The Green Park website only makes mention to a February 2008 press release giving final approval: http://www.greenpark.co.uk/cms/pdfs/GP_NEWS_FEB08.pdf (http://www.greenpark.co.uk/cms/pdfs/GP_NEWS_FEB08.pdf)


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 18, 2010, 01:46:31 pm
Does anybody know what the hold-up is? 

Nobody?  ???


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: paul7755 on August 18, 2010, 02:44:26 pm
I wasn't going to bother pointing it out, but could there have been a recession?  ???

Paul


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 18, 2010, 03:11:48 pm
I think there was, yes.  ::)  Shouldn't that lead to an official announcement of a delay or cancellation though?

The latest news I could find comes from the excellent Reading Chronicle: http://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/reading/articles/2009/11/01/42644-station-developers-ecobacktrack-/ (http://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/reading/articles/2009/11/01/42644-station-developers-ecobacktrack-/) - which talks of a change in specification last November (i.e. post recession), but still states that the work should now have started and be largely completed ready for a November opening this year.  That clearly isn't going to happen.  I'm a little surprised that there's not more public interest in what is a rare opening of a new station in England.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: paul7755 on August 18, 2010, 05:13:06 pm
I think there's a different media interest when 'the railway' announces an opening proposal.  This seems to be firmly associated with the overall development in the area - and I don't think it's something NR or FGW have publicised much?

So does that lead to less potential for 'railway bashing' by the local media, because as far as folk in Reading are concerned it's just part of yet another out of town development, and there's a sort of complacency because they are going on to their own agenda and timescales?

Paul


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 27, 2011, 09:27:16 am
At last, some news on this project, but sadly it's not good news!

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/s/2102282_green_park_station_plan_hits_the_buffers (http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/s/2102282_green_park_station_plan_hits_the_buffers)


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 04, 2013, 12:10:25 pm
A bit of positive news regarding Reading Green Park station:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-25198432 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-25198432)


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: bignosemac on December 04, 2013, 02:50:38 pm
Positive news indeed. But, that station name...

Makes me all misty eyed for another 'Green Park' that will never again see a train.

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/100_3001_zps08579727.jpg)


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: bobm on December 04, 2013, 02:55:51 pm
I can assure you Green Park in Reading looks nothing like that....

There was also talk of opening a station at Suttons Industrial Park to the east of Reading but I think that has died a death.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Timmer on December 04, 2013, 05:04:16 pm
Makes me all misty eyed for another 'Green Park' that will never again see a train.
Makes me sad everytime I walk through it.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: stuving on December 04, 2013, 07:41:27 pm
There was also talk of opening a station at Suttons Industrial Park to the east of Reading but I think that has died a death.

I've always wondered why I've not seen a station at Woodley suggested: i.e. at the west end of "Suttons' Seeds", or a bit further out. True, being in Sonning cutting adds to the cost, especially if you need to provide the Crossrail standard of 4 platforms, but ten years or more ago that wouldn't have been needed.

That would be closer to the spacing out from Reading of the first station on other lines - Earley, Tilehurst, and the proposed Green Park (ignoring Reading West) are all just under 3 miles. What should determine the spacing of stations like this?

I guess that, apart from operational matters, the main issue is how big a catchment a station can serve. Is there a standard figure for how far people will walk from work or home?


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: 4064ReadingAbbey on July 08, 2014, 02:48:45 pm
This proposal seems to have come back to life again. See

http://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/roundup/articles/2014/07/08/101760-plans-for-green-park-station-serving-reading-fcs-madejski-stadium-on-track-after-government-pledges-32m-for-transport-projects-across-reading/

All I can say is that it will be a long walk to the stadium. As the crow flies the shortest distance is about 3/4 mile.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: paul7755 on July 08, 2014, 04:31:30 pm
There seems (nationally) to be a strange idea that you can justify a station opening (or re-openings) by its proximity to a football stadium.  Whereas in the reality, although a stadium would be of some marginal interest to the business case, it will never be a prime justification, as headline writers seem to think...

Paul


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: stuving on November 21, 2014, 06:52:32 pm
Well, once more Network rail are right about a project they put in their plans - funding this has now been signed off, according to the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-30128617)
Quote
20 November 2014 Last updated at 20:06
Green Park train station funding approved for Reading

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/79155000/jpg/_79155055_79147410.jpg)
The new station at Green Park is near the Madejski Stadium, a new housing development and a business park

Funding for a new train station in Reading has been approved as part of a multimillion-pound spend on improving transport networks across Berkshire.

The ^6.4m Green Park station will be built on the Reading to Basingstoke line near the Madejski Stadium, with construction planned in October 2016.

It is part of a ^21.4m batch of schemes agreed by the Berkshire Local Transport Body, and funded by the government.

Newbury, Bracknell and Slough councils have had road upgrades approved.

Plans for the station include a bus interchange, park and ride, a short stay car park and taxi drop-off.

Reading Borough's transport chief Tony Page, who also chairs the Berkshire Local Transport Body, said: "It will be instrumental in unlocking the much needed housing and other facilities that are encompassed in the Green Park Village development."

Newbury is to get a direct link between the Hambridge Road industrial area and the A339 - costing ^2.34m, and a new ^1.9m junction to improve access to London Road Industrial Estate, a regeneration site.

Slough will receive a total of ^7.1m to improve the A332 Windsor Road as well as a scheme to improve traffic flow on the A355 between the M4, Slough Trading Estate and the M40.

Bracknell is to build a ^3.5m Warfield link road to facilitate plans for a 2,200-home development in the area.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Jason on March 20, 2015, 03:32:12 pm
The long-awaited Green Park railway station is back on the agenda after plans were submitted to Reading Borough Council...
http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/local-news/green-park-train-station-plans-8865748 (http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/local-news/green-park-train-station-plans-8865748)


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: TonyK on March 20, 2015, 08:00:35 pm
Any chance of one of these at Bath?


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 25, 2015, 08:07:51 pm
From GetReading (http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/first-great-western-suggest-green-8911892):

Quote
First Great Western suggest Green Park station won't be open until late 2018

There is confusion as to when the ^8 million development will be ready for public use

(http://i4.getreading.co.uk/incoming/article4132542.ece/alternates/s615/C_67_article_2080208_body_articleblock_0_bodyimage.jpg)
Planners are due to discuss the future of the Green Park railway station tonight

There is much speculation surrounding the completion of the planned Green Park railway station.

Original plans submitted to Reading Borough Council by agents Peter Brett Associates estimate completion by the end of 2017, if all goes well.

Councillor Tony Page, Deputy Leader of the Council and Lead Councillor for Strategic Environment, Planning and Transport confirmed this.

However James Davis, Media Relations Manager for First Great Western believes the ^8 million station will not be ready until December 2018, in time for the electrification of the railway line.

This is a separate project aiming to bring out a fleet of new electric trains across the Thames Valley and South Wales, replacing some of the old diesel engines.

Tony Page said First Great Western were being "pessimistic in their expectations.

"They're erring on the side of caution here," he said.

The 25,600 sq m station would be unmanned and would be part-funded by the Local Enterprise Partnership, receiving a grant of ^6.4 million.

Reading Borough Council would cover the remaining ^1.6 million.

Proposals for the station date back to 2007, with the original Green Park business park.

After being dropped in 2011, the project was resurrected in December 2013 when the council announced it would re-submit plans for the station.

In July 2014 it was announced the station would feature in a ^17 million Government investment in road and rail projects.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: TonyK on March 25, 2015, 08:47:20 pm
Confusion? In a railway project? Whatever next!


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: 4064ReadingAbbey on March 28, 2015, 11:01:42 pm
I would expect that the station opens with the electric service to Basingstoke. The reason is that the current 30 minute interval service can be maintained by 2 units with a journey time of 25 minutes. Lengthening the end-to-end journey time by 3 or 4 minutes will mean there is insufficient turnround time at each end of the journey for a reliable service to be run.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Adelante_CCT on March 29, 2015, 09:19:12 am
I agree with ReadingAbbeys comment, especially with the 150s the turnaround time is tight enough as it is, the stop at Green Park would be to much for 2 units. However if the turbos are being cascaded by then perhaps 3 units could be used until the line has been fully electrified.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: stuving on March 29, 2015, 11:50:26 am
I would expect that the station opens with the electric service to Basingstoke.

But when will that be? Remember this bit of electrification was an afterthought, is not due to complete GRIP 3 until December 2015, and all later milestone dates are TBA.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: 4064ReadingAbbey on March 29, 2015, 05:19:16 pm

But when will that be? Remember this bit of electrification was an afterthought, is not due to complete GRIP 3 until December 2015, and all later milestone dates are TBA.

Sorreee...! I should have made it clear that I was commenting on the difference in completion dates of the electrification given by Tony Page of the RBC (December 2017) and James Davis of fGW who quoted December 2018.

I quite believe the official documents only give TBA - but these documents are written for civil servants by civil servants and none of them will want to be definite if they don't have to be and the approved documents are not to hand. The operator needs to have something more concrete for their planning so I expect they are basing their working on some reasonable assumptions. The RBC politicians, on the other hand, want to have something in their hands so that they can later berate the railways so they pluck a number out of the air or, to be charitable, a date quoted in an earlier iteration of the planning... :o


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Jason on April 29, 2015, 09:40:07 am
Updated plans have been submitted as the original consents have expired as reported in
http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/local-news/green-park-station-expired-plan-9139923 (http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/local-news/green-park-station-expired-plan-9139923)


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 10, 2015, 12:34:00 am
From Railnews (http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2015/05/08-goahead-for-station-at-reading.html):

Quote
Go-ahead for station at Reading Green Park

(http://www.railnews.co.uk/img/medium/news02102.jpg)

Planning permission has been granted for a new park-and-ride station in the southern outskirts of Reading, eight years after plans for the station were first unveiled.

The ^6.4 million station ^ part funded by the Berkshire Local Transport Body and nearby property developers ^ will include a multi-storey car park and bus interchange, and be served by First Great Western trains on the Reading-Basingstoke line.

Plans now also include provision for the planned electrification of the Basingstoke line as part of the North-South Spine project.

The new station will serve a fast-growing high-tech and residential area on the south side of Reading, near Junction 11 of the M4.  Tesco already has a substantial distribution centre nearby, employing around 1,000 people, and Huawei, the Chinese telecoms giants, has recently relocated to Green Park.

The Berkshire Local Transport Body says the Reading-Basingstoke corridor provides access to over 50,000 jobs in central Reading and 10,000 jobs and 1,500 homes in South Reading. There is also planned growth of 7,500 jobs and 1,500 more homes along the corridor, and another 2,500 homes near M4 junction 11.

First Great Western said the station is expected to be completed by December 2018.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: stuving on July 23, 2016, 03:46:34 pm
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-36857446):

Quote
Reading Green Park railway station cost increases by £3m

    22 July 2016
    From the section Berkshire

The cost of a new railway station planned for Reading has risen by almost 50%.

Berkshire Local Transport Body (BLTB) awarded an additional £3m to the initial £6.4m contract for Green Park Station on Thursday.

The station will be built on the Reading to Basingstoke line near Madejski Stadium to improve transport networks across Berkshire.

Reading Borough Council said the funds would help "cater for more passengers".

Funds would go towards the provision of additional waiting shelters and ticketing facilities for passengers.

Tony Page, planning and transport councillor at the authority, said: "We need to future-proof for a much greater use by passengers than originally anticipated due to the growth in housing, leisure and conference facilities...over the next few years."

An assessment of forecast passenger demand for the station was undertaken in 2013 by Great Western Railway and Network Rail.

However, BLTP said recent reviews suggested "a significant increase in the forecast passenger demand for the station in comparison to the calculations undertaken in 2013".

Construction work on the station is set to begin in October 2016.

It is part of a £21.4m batch of schemes agreed by the Berkshire Local Transport Body and funded by the government.

Other schemes include road improvements in Newbury, Slough and Bracknell.

Now, what's missing from that (as it was from the shorter news item run on South Today on Thursday)? Oh yes, what trains might call there and from when.

While it's not in the thread above, the Hendy version of delivery dates gives:
Quote
Milestone Description Date Status
GRIP 3 AIP completionSingle option selection and AIP completionJune 2018Regulated Output
GRIP 4 completionSingle option scope definedAssumed CP6Indicative
GRIP 6 startStart on siteAssumed CP6Indicative
EIS Infrastructure authorised  Infrastructure authorised for passenger useAssumed CP6   Indicative
Output deliveredFirst timetabled public use of the infrastructure  Assumed CP6n/a

So if anyone is still counting on electric trains for this service, there's no rush to build the station.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Adelante_CCT on July 23, 2016, 06:18:44 pm
Having travelled a lot between Reading and Southampton recently I've noticed some houses being built at Green Park edging slowly towards the railway line so I would have thought passenger demand will be increasing fairly shortly.

Quote
Oh yes, what trains might call there and from when
With turbos being released from the main line, as I have said before I don't see any reason for not having three turbos shuttling up and down, would be far better for turnaround times as at the moment recovery times throughout the day are practically nonexistent.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: grahame on July 23, 2016, 07:53:41 pm
Having travelled a lot between Reading and Southampton recently I've noticed some houses being built at Green Park edging slowly towards the railway line so I would have thought passenger demand will be increasing fairly shortly.

Let's hope they have a train service to meet that demand rather than one that starts after they've all bought their second cars!


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Noggin on July 24, 2016, 10:05:22 pm
Well I suppose that it's good news if they are building it properly rather than a minimalistic effort that will have to be upgraded at great expense.

IIRC, the issue with the Reading to Basingstoke line is that you can just squeeze in the current service pattern, but an additional stop at Green Park would be too much. I believe that the faster acceleration of EMUs would resolve the issue, otherwise other stations would have to lose some of their services (assuming that a complete recast of the timetable is out of the question).

I'm inclined to think that with Hendy in charge, GWML electrification will be run like Crossrail - i.e. strictly no increases in scope, extras only get done once the main project has been delivered.     


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: stuving on February 26, 2017, 08:31:46 pm
This has popped up in GetReading:
Quote
Network Rail attempt to get Green Park Station project back on track
There are concerns that no trains will stop at the station when it opens in 2018 as the electrification of the line has been delayed*

ByNathan Hyde    11:37, 26 FEB 2017
(http://i1.getreading.co.uk/incoming/article9251709.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/green-park-stationJPG.jpg)
Artist's impression of Green Park Station

Reading passengers may be able to catch a train at Green Park Station when it opens in December 2018, even though the railway line will not be electrified.

Plans for the eagerly-awaited station suffered a huge blow in 2015 when Network Rail announced that work to electrify the line it sits on would not begin before 2019.

There were concerns that no trains would be able to call at the station when it opened.

The two diesel trains which operate on the branch line are not able to achieve the necessary acceleration in the short distance between Green Park and Reading Station.

However, Network Rail has revealed it could make alterations to ensure that diesel trains can stop at the station, until the electrification is completed.

"Were working with Reading Borough Council and the Department for Transport to put arrangements in so that the station can be served by diesel trains before the line is electrified," said a Network Rails spokesman.

He also confirmed that the station is still expected to open in December 2018.

Reading FC are keeping a close eye on the multi-million pound project as the station will offer another mode of transport for fans and people travelling to and from Royal Elm Park.
Royal Elm Park

The installation of an electrified line between Basingstoke and Reading has been delayed until what Network Rail call CP6, which is sometime between 2019 to 2024.

The announcement was made in the Hendy Report, published by Network Rail chairman Sir Peter Hendy after he was tasked with looking at a massive overspend on the electrification of railway lines across the UK.

Reading Borough Council has secured 13.7 million of funding for the project, from the Local Growth Fund and private sector contributions.

Plans for the railway station were approved by the council's planning committee in April 2015.
(*I'm not sure what that's doing there.)

Now, I wonder what's that all about? I mean, particularly, ""Were working with Reading Borough Council and the Department for Transport to put arrangements in so that the station can be served by diesel trains before the line is electrified," said a Network Rails spokesman."


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 26, 2017, 09:45:00 pm
Realistically it's either an extra unit to maintain the 30-minute frequency, or a one of the other three intermediate stops being removed.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Jason on August 01, 2017, 11:52:28 am
Green Park Station given major funding boost by Government

http://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/15440149.__2_3m_pledged_to_create_new_train_station/ (http://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/15440149.__2_3m_pledged_to_create_new_train_station/)
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-station-boost-for-passengers-thanks-to-16-million-government-investment (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-station-boost-for-passengers-thanks-to-16-million-government-investment)

Still no mention of hard timescales for trains actually being able to stop there.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Jason on September 19, 2017, 01:42:14 pm
Green Park station milestone reached as project edges closer
[ http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/green-park-station-milestone-reached-13637531 (http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/green-park-station-milestone-reached-13637531) ]

The station is set to be a transport hub for South Reading
Plans for Green Park railway station will reach a key milestone when spending on the project and a developer to lead the design are agreed.

Reading Borough Council bosses are expected to approve the scheme and spending for the new station at its policy committee on Monday, September 25.

Councillors are also expected to appoint developers Balfour Beatty.
Read More

    Green Park Station plans given green light by government

Councillor Tony Page, lead member for strategic environment, planning and transport, said: "The spend approval for Green Park Station is an important landmark for this council-led scheme and we hope to be in a position to announce when work on the ground will start at some point over the winter."

The station will be on the Reading to Basingstoke train line, and services will run every 30 minutes north to Reading and south to Basingstoke throughout the day.

The council is in discussions with the Department for Transport, Network Rail and Great Western Railway to agree a timetable for the delivery of the station.

Green Park station will cost an estimated 16 million and will feature two platforms, disabled access, a car park, bus stops, a taxi rank and cycle parking.
Artist's impression of Green Park Station

Football fans are expected to be major beneficiaries of the new station on matchdays, due to the proximity of the station to the Madejski Stadium.

It is hoped the new transport link will also help alleviate queues on the busy A33.

Cllr Page said: "Reading Green Park Station will be a key part of the towns future transport infrastructure as more homes, businesses and leisure developments are planned for the area.

"It will also be welcomed by football and rugby fans heading to Madejski Stadium.
Read More
Green Park station

    Government approve station plans
    Fears over station electrification
    Plan for flats nearby
    Royal Elm Park approved

"Quick and easy rail access to south Reading will also help keep traffic off busy roads like the A33, which is an obvious benefit to everyone."

The move comes after the Department for Transport announced it would put 2.3 million into the scheme.

Other funding will come from area development contributions (4.6 million) and 9.15 million from the the Local Enterprise Partnership.

When the Department for Transport approved the cash in July it stated the new station would be complete by March 2020.

The station will be just one part of major works going on at Green Park, which include the expansion of Green Park Business Park, the Green Park Village residential development and the Royal Elm Park mixed-use development.

Planning permission for the station was granted in 2015.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: ChrisB on September 19, 2017, 02:15:18 pm
Presumably another turbo will be required to provide this service? The trip will take more than 30 minutes once a stop here is served?


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: CyclingSid on September 20, 2017, 08:16:50 am
There was a previous article in the Reading paper about electrification, which is possibly the only way they would be able to keep to the current schedule. As for reducing road traffic, I can't see that happening unless there are some peak time trains direct to Paddington, and in the light of the recent changes to the Henley service I can't imagine that happening.
Plans for Grazeley Garden Village also suggest that there should be a station there, with the idea of "moving" Mortimer station (which I would imagine wouldn't be well received by the current users).


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 20, 2017, 09:32:23 am
Can't see electrification happening in time for the proposed opening date, but given that is likely to slip given its already slipped many times and experience of similar stations being delayed, who knows which will be ready first!


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: aifo on September 22, 2017, 11:38:04 am
There's more details in the agenda for the RBC Policy Committee, Item 10:
http://www.reading.gov.uk/article/10578/Policy-Committee-25-SEP-2017 (http://www.reading.gov.uk/article/10578/Policy-Committee-25-SEP-2017)
Quote
An indicative programme for delivery of the station by May 2019 has been agreed with the DfT, Network Rail and GWR, based on the requirement for the station to be included within the specification for the Great Western Franchise. There is also a requirement for an additional diesel train to be supplied for the Reading-Basingstoke line as part of this franchise to enable Green Park Station to be served prior to delivery of electrification of the line (which will enable the station to be served with the existing provision of two trains on the line) which has been agreed with the DfT.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 22, 2017, 11:44:38 am
An additional train would also mean much longer turnaround times at either end, which is less efficient but should improve timekeeping.  One less Turbo for the west though?


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 22, 2017, 09:48:18 pm
There's more details in the agenda for the RBC Policy Committee, Item 10:

http://www.reading.gov.uk/article/10578/Policy-Committee-25-SEP-2017 (http://www.reading.gov.uk/article/10578/Policy-Committee-25-SEP-2017)


Thanks for posting that information, aifo - and a warm welcome to the Coffee Shop forum.  :)



Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Adelante_CCT on September 27, 2017, 10:13:36 am
Funding approved by RBC, unsurprising as they don't have to fund any of it.
http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/green-park-station-funding-approved-13674198 (http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/green-park-station-funding-approved-13674198)

Quote
which is now expected to be completed by May 2019
Now, where's that pig flying emoticon?


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: ChrisB on October 01, 2017, 11:36:14 am
An additional train would also mean much longer turnaround times at either end, which is less efficient but should improve timekeeping.  One less Turbo for the west though?

Or the retention of a 150 once released from the West?


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 01, 2017, 04:18:35 pm
Possible, though I would think the Turbo option would be likelier as that means crew knowledge would be much simplified.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: eightonedee on February 17, 2019, 01:54:21 pm
Quote
Funding approved by RBC, unsurprising as they don't have to fund any of it.
http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/green-park-station-funding-approved-13674198

Quote
which is now expected to be completed by May 2019
Now, where's that pig flying emoticon?

It looks like your scepticism was justified-

This is what the site looked like earlier today-











Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: jamestheredengine on February 17, 2019, 04:10:08 pm
I'm not surprised that the station site still looks like that. What surprises me is the jump to using extra rolling stock, rather than inter-working with the Newbury local service, which already seems not to have very tidy turnarounds.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: grahame on February 17, 2019, 04:25:02 pm
I'm not surprised that the station site still looks like that. What surprises me is the jump to using extra rolling stock, rather than inter-working with the Newbury local service, which already seems not to have very tidy turnarounds.

But the Newbury local service is electric ...


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: stuving on February 17, 2019, 04:32:21 pm
After the last new date (summer 2019 in place of 2020), things have got delayed again, by guess who? Wokingham Borough Planning (http://publicaccess.wokingham.gov.uk/AniteIM.WebSearch/(S(lxusee5532hrj1yrr1n3ugr5))/Results.aspx?grdResultsP=1), that's who. As the applicants' agents (Peter Brett Associates) explain:
Quote
An application for the construction of a railway station, multi-modal interchange and multi-storey car park was granted full planning permission by Reading Borough Council (Ref: 141944) and West Berkshire Council (Ref: 14/03289/COMIND) in Spring 2015. As a result of subsequent detailed design work and engineering constraints (such as the existing Foudry Brook culvert and high voltage cables), it is necessary for the approved platforms to be relocated further south and for the platforms to be extended to 165m to accommodate 6 carriage trains. This, in turn, requires relocation of the approved footbridge and a change to the location of the approved ditch diversion. These proposed amendments fall outside of the previously approved application boundary and therefore a new full application is hereby submitted.

There is a tiny wedge of wayward Wokingham in the immediate foreground of eightonedee's picture (from Kirtons Farm Road bridge). It only goes as far as the equipment cabinet and half as far again, but the platforms in their new positions come right up to the bridge. The rest of the station is in West Berkshire, except for just the front wall and road access (including a 4-storey car park) that are in Reading. So a new planning application was made to WBC last May ... and there it still rests, listed officially as recommendation made and awaiting the start of a consultation phase.

Having refused Reading's application to build their bus bridge (East Reading MRT), on the grounds that it would ruin the riverside environment (which looks suspiciously like a scruffy bit of ex-industrial canal bank), I wonder what objections WBC will come up with this time?






Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: eightonedee on February 17, 2019, 05:12:21 pm
Quote
Having refused Reading's application to build their bus bridge (East Reading MRT), on the grounds that it would ruin the riverside environment (which looks suspiciously like a scruffy bit of ex-industrial canal bank), I wonder what objections WBC will come up with this time?

To be fair, Stuving, there was a lot of opposition (especially from "Green" groups) to the MRT. While I agree that it looks about the least attractive part of the Thames through Berkshire, there are a lot of people in east Reading/Newtown area who seem very attached to this their nearest bit of riverside greenery.

The same cannot however be said about Green Park Station. It has no effect on the amenity of any Wokingham residents at all so I cannot understand what WBC's problem is. I am also surprised that Councillor Page (who is not backward at coming forward!) has not been lambasting WBC in the local press about their delay in processing this application.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: stuving on February 17, 2019, 06:50:59 pm
That very odd boundary, in case you were wondering, dates way back to when it divided the parishes of Shinfield and Burghfield. At that stage both parishes extended well to the north, with a somewhat wiggly boundary (probably following a tiny stream) but nothing unusual. It was also a Workhouse Union boundary, and that became the basis for sanitary districts and then (following 1894) rural districts (Wokingham and Bradfield). But in 1887, when the RDCs were created, Reading Borough was extended (and promoted to County Borough) and took over part of Shinfield and Wokingham Union to the east of the railway. That cut off this little snippet of Wokingham.

Now historically parishes didn't bother to follow even county boundaries, nor to join detached parts by narrow contiguating strips. This time they chose to do both of those things, hence the north half of Kirtons Farm Road from the bridge eastwards is in Wokingham. The bridge is one-way with traffic lights, which at 300 m are quite far apart, and four of the signal posts are in West Berkshire, one in Reading, and the cable between them can't avoid going through Wokingham.

I'm sure it all made sense at the time ... to someone ...


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: stuving on February 17, 2019, 07:42:39 pm
Did you spot this bit? "...for the platforms to be extended to 165m to accommodate 6 carriage trains"? Is that just "while we're at it let's cater for future growth"? That's hardly the usual style, not for NR nor any other funders. So is there a cunning plan hiding out of sight somewhere - or maybe it's "let's put 165 m in the planning application, but only build 3-car for now"!

When electrification was still on, Mortimer and Bramley were going to get stretched from 3-car to 4-car platform lengths. That bit of the plan is now just sitting there sulking and dreaming optimistically of CP6, unless anyone has heard any newer news.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: CyclingSid on February 18, 2019, 02:19:55 pm
The other thing that struck me about the site of Reading Green Park, it would seem to be fairly close to having the National Grid lines overhead.

For those interested in the many and varied quirks of Berkshire boundaries might want to get sight of a copy of "An Historical Atlas of Berkshire". Also to show that the Local Government Boundary Commission for England has a sense of humour, see some of the proposals before they ended up with six unitary authorities.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 18, 2019, 02:25:39 pm
Did you spot this bit? "...for the platforms to be extended to 165m to accommodate 6 carriage trains"? Is that just "while we're at it let's cater for future growth"? That's hardly the usual style, not for NR nor any other funders. So is there a cunning plan hiding out of sight somewhere - or maybe it's "let's put 165 m in the planning application, but only build 3-car for now"!

To be able to operate match day specials for Reading F.C.?  Either 6-car Turbos, or 8-car 769s?


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: stuving on February 18, 2019, 06:34:02 pm
Did you spot this bit? "...for the platforms to be extended to 165m to accommodate 6 carriage trains"? Is that just "while we're at it let's cater for future growth"? That's hardly the usual style, not for NR nor any other funders. So is there a cunning plan hiding out of sight somewhere - or maybe it's "let's put 165 m in the planning application, but only build 3-car for now"!

To be able to operate match day specials for Reading F.C.?  Either 6-car Turbos, or 8-car 769s?

I thought not, as that would not have changed since 2015. However, the stock will change - now that the station design is for diesel rather than for electric. The earlier design was for 5-car (presumably 140 m), and it may be that one of the implications non-electrification is having to cope with only 3-car units.

I thought I'd just have a quick look at the new application - in whichever LPD it belongs to - and failed. It seems all three sets of planners think it's primarily someone else's, and haven't posted most of the documents. But I did find that it probably isn't Wokingham that's being difficult, but the other WBC (West Berks).

From various short summaries, it's clear the redesign has moved the platforms some 35 m southwards so as not to span Foudry Brook, and a bit less again to reach 6-car length. The old design stopped just short of Wokingham, so the move alone pushes into their patch and the extension is all theirs. So Wokingham got a full application, never having had one before, and so did Reading though with no visible documents; and both are just waiting.

West Berks only got a quickie non-material change application, presumably on the grounds (you don't get to explain why) that the only significant change is removing things to somewhere else. They have refused this, on the grounds that moving a planned building is material. I guess they should now get a full application, basically to explain why a full application wasn't needed. This of course is familiar territory for planning, where you can get a planning pseudo-consent (for permitted development) that says you don't need planning consent...

What is really odd though, is that Wokingham's site outline map shows an access route via West Berks,  while theirs doesn't and it wasn't in the first (approved) application to them. Isn't that a material change?

For completeness, and in case you want to look at the pretty pictures, the numbers are (the postcode is RG2 6GP, but so is a lot of Green Park, and no help if it was not entered):

Reading: (http://planning.reading.gov.uk/fastweb_PL/search.asp?Results=none&ApplicationNumber=&AddressPrefix=Land+West+Of+Longwater+Avenue&Postcode=RG2+6GP&CaseOfficer=&ParishName=&AreaTeam=&WardMember=&Consultant=&DateReceivedStart=&DateReceivedEnd=&DateDecidedStart=&DateDecidedEnd=&Locality=&AgentName=&ApplicantName=&ShowDecided=&Decision_Made=&DecisionDescription=&Sort1=FullAddressPrefix&Sort2=DateReceived+DESC&Submit=Search) 141944 full, 171011, 171064, 171258 conditions, 150254, 171205 minor, 181123 new one but no details

West Berk (https://publicaccess.westberks.gov.uk/online-applications/)s: 14/03289/COMIND full, 18/00034/NONMAT new one - refused

Wokingham (https://planning.wokingham.gov.uk/FastWebPL/search.asp?Results=none&ApplicationNumber=%09181514&AddressPrefix=&Postcode=&KeywordSearch=&Submit=Search): 181514 only one, full


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: eightonedee on February 18, 2019, 08:13:13 pm
As someone who has to deal with planning authorities all the time in my professional life, I normally have considerable sympathy with those whose plans get stuck in the mire of the planning system. However as this story unfolds I am beginning to question the way this has been dealt with.

Someone really should have settled the final design of this before going for planning in what is clearly a sensitive location, due to its unusual position in relation to the boundary between three different planning authorities. Perhaps this is why Tony Page has not been sounding off in the press - someone needs to explain

1  having got full permission - why have they gone back to change it?

2  If the change is essential  - why have they not made a new full application to West Berks in the nearly one year that has passed since West Berks decided that it was not a non-material change? That decision was made on 8 March 2018!

3  Why were the new applications to RBC and Wokingham made three and a half and two and a half months respectively after the West Berks application had already been determined? And why is the RBC application also undetermined?

You can view the documents on West Berks's planning website - the only thing missing is the covering letter accompanying the form and plan - which simply shows the old and new boundaries of the site.

Sorry - I've just had a "lightbulb moment!"

Just realised the answer to 2 above lies in the catchily named Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 2015, Schedule 2 part 8 paragraph A2 - No planning permission is required for railway related development comprising alteration of a building or bridge unless
Quote
the external design or appearance would be materially affected
. This would probably override West Berks's guidance which requires a full application for moving any building. My guess is that someone pointed this out to West Berks after receiving the decision notice (which does not mention the permitted development rights), hence no further application! Someone should though have had a dialogue with the planning authority to flush this out first. This principle should also apply to the RBC element - and possibly Wokingham's too, as I do not think that a minor permitted change to a previously approved scheme would need a separate consent simply because it strays across a local government boundary, so it does not explain either the Wokingham application, nor the latest RBC one. What's going on here?

Something is odd here - there is a story to be told!


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: eightonedee on February 18, 2019, 09:47:57 pm
Sorry - there's another answer I can give - the access is development that does not require permission - it is noted on one of the plans lodged with Wokingham to this effect (see-http://publicaccess.wokingham.gov.uk/NorthgatePublicDocs/00419682.pdf)


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: stuving on February 18, 2019, 11:53:56 pm
Sorry - there's another answer I can give - the access is development that does not require permission - it is noted on one of the plans lodged with Wokingham to this effect (see-http://publicaccess.wokingham.gov.uk/NorthgatePublicDocs/00419682.pdf)

There is a lot more in the Planning Statement (http://publicaccess.wokingham.gov.uk/AniteIM.WebSearch/(S(cspit355pwpglzexcxa3g0at))/Download.aspx?ID=419674) (bottom of page 2 of the document list), which also refers to a full application to West Berks (that didn't some up in my search, nor as a related application, but is 18/01451/COMIND). It refers to the haul road:
Quote
3.3.5 The access road would be constructed to provide access to the compound to facilitate construction and therefore falls under Part 2 Class B of the GPDO 2015 which permits:
The formation, laying out and construction of a means of access to a highway which is not a trunk road or a classified road, where that access is required in connection with development permitted by any Class in this Schedule (other than by Class A of this Part).
3.3.6 The development of the access road for use during construction can therefore proceed under permitted development rights. This was confirmed in writing by West Berkshire Council during pre-application discussions in November 2017.

I'm not familiar with GPDO 2015, but while that might apply to planning per se (i.e. to what is permanently built), surely controls still apply to construction phase aspects and all the environmental issues? There is also a construction management plan, from Balfour Beatty, which doesn't inspire confidence (even if it is only "outline"). It says its preferred traffic route is solely from the A33 at Mereoak and via Kirtons Farm Road over the railway bridge:
Quote
It is assumed there is no constraint on Heavy Commercial Vehicles using the rail bridge carriageway as they will be accessing premises along that stretch of road.
There is a 7.5t weight limit on the bridge. Now, that isn't the bridge's fault - it was rebuilt by Network rail in 2015 to "full strength", whatever that is, and the old limit of 3t was raised only to 7.5t after the local residents (all six of them) said they didn't want their peace and quiet disturbed. Now that might be negotiable for this project - but you'd think they would have found out about it first.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: stuving on February 19, 2019, 12:15:28 am
Poking about in that new West Berks application's documents, there's an extension of the time limit for determination to 15/2/19. That was caused by arguments between all of them and the EA about flood risk, and whether the station is "essential transport infrastructure" and so can't just be put somewhere else.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: eightonedee on February 20, 2019, 12:02:50 am
Apologies all - having re-read the relevant paragraph of the GPDO, reproduced below, I missed a crucial element (shown in bold)-

Quote
Permitted development
A.  Development by railway undertakers on their operational land, required in connection with the movement of traffic by rail.

Development not permitted
A.1  Development is not permitted by Class A if it consists of or includes

(a)the construction of a railway;
(b)the construction or erection of a hotel, railway station or bridge; or
(c)the construction or erection otherwise than wholly within a railway station of
(i)an office, residential or educational building, or a building used for an industrial process, or
(ii)a car park, shop, restaurant, garage, petrol filling station or other building or structure provided under transport legislation.
Interpretation of Class A
A.2  For the purposes of Class A, references to the construction or erection of any building or structure include references to the reconstruction or alteration of a building or structure where its design or external appearance would be materially affected.


RBC is not a railway undertaker, so has to apply for planning permission.

Thanks Stuving for ferreting out the apparently missing West Berks application. Their website does indeed have all the relevant documentation and correspondence, and their closing date matches Wokingham's closing date for consultation. The "smoking gun" has been found!

The flood risk issue is very much a live one in the vicinity. The nearby major electricity and gas infrastructure facitilities had to be sandbagged by the armed forces twice in the winters of 2012/3 and 2013/4 to avoid large parts of Reading losing power from these installations being being flooded. The EA is currently reviewing its flood modelling in the area and this has caused delay in other planning applications including one that is at an appeal that has been adjourned twice since it started in September. The issue about piling putting the aquifer at risk is also understandable - the area east of the line was for many years "Smallmead Dump" - a refuse landfill for Reading.  It is a little surprising that it seems to be more difficult this time around, but the EA would no doubt claim (with some justification) that they have to deal with these matters with limited resources while continuing to discharge their day to day land drainage and flood defence responsibilities.

Let's hope we're near resolution of these issues - but my guess would be 2020 for opening at the earliest, not 2019.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: eightonedee on April 15, 2019, 09:45:05 pm
Some good news - both West Berks and Wokingham Councils finally granted approval for the amended scheme on 28 March after a number of extensions to allow for EA input!


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: CyclingSid on April 24, 2019, 11:40:53 am
Looks like they have started.

Going by yesterday the undergrowth/jungle on the Up side has been attacked,


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 24, 2019, 11:46:24 am
Looks like they have started.

Going by yesterday the undergrowth/jungle on the Up side has been attacked,

Only ten years late, but hey-ho, a start is a start!  Unless that's just clearance for a ground survey of course!


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: mjones on April 24, 2019, 12:19:54 pm
They will be looking for newts and dormice.  It won't take long to find them, then they can stop work for another few years.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 24, 2019, 12:22:07 pm
To be fair, it's only the Great Crested Dormouse that's a problem, other mice are fine.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: bradbrka on May 13, 2019, 10:24:43 pm
I took a slight detour when walking around Green Park yesterday to look at the site of the Green Park station from the Kirtons Farm Road bridge to see if there has been any developments.

The answer is yes and no.

Yes, the ground work for the access road, parking, drop-off point etc. coming along.
No, nothing that will enable trains to stop.

I took some pictures and will try to share them tomorrow


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: grahame on May 14, 2019, 05:40:47 am
I took a slight detour when walking around Green Park yesterday to look at the site of the Green Park station from the Kirtons Farm Road bridge to see if there has been any developments.

The answer is yes and no.

Yes, the ground work for the access road, parking, drop-off point etc. coming along.
No, nothing that will enable trains to stop.

I took some pictures and will try to share them tomorrow

Sounds like good news; I would expect that the access road is needed first for site access, with platforms coming later.  It certainly worked like that for platform extensions that have happened within my observation in the last couple of years such as Melksham and Freshford.

Your first post!    Welcome to the forum - yes, please do add pictures and keep us updated; although there are a lot of members, we're thinly spread and it's really useful getting the Reading (and Green Park) view.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: stuving on May 14, 2019, 09:37:08 am
Thanks for the information, bradbrka - and welcome to the forum as contributor.

Sounds like good news; I would expect that the access road is needed first for site access, with platforms coming later.  It certainly worked like that for platform extensions that have happened within my observation in the last couple of years such as Melksham and Freshford.

There are two things that might be called an "access road". The road layout for the interchange, to the east of the railway, is the one thing that could start right after the planners' "bang". It's an extension of the housing site, and parts of it have been used as construction compound and parking. The other is the "haul road" in from the west (Cottage Lane). That has to be built before anything much else on the Up side stationwise.

There are also a few underground preliminaries that may not show a lot - slightly shifting a 33kV cable to the east of the line and an S&T route to the west. The big overhead cables (132kV) are staying, as are the buried 33kV ones and watercourses just outside the northern end of the station site - they are the reason it was extended to the south and so invaded Wokingham.

edit: recount volts


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: CyclingSid on May 14, 2019, 03:07:14 pm
The sunshine and the previous persuaded me to get the bike out and go down and have a look.

Waiting at the traffic lights to go over the bridge was almost squashed by a large dumper. Over the bridge there were some cones and on the corner of the road to the power station. Round the corner a large excavator making a start at digging out the "verge" on the railway (west) side. Presumably the start of the "haul road" that stuving mentioned.

Is there going to be any passenger vehicle access on that side when it is completed?


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Reading General on May 14, 2019, 03:39:40 pm
That's a good question, as the road in Green Park and the lane over the railway remain isolated from each other to prevent through traffic. It would make sense to have some access to at least drop people off on that side. There is the possibility that parking could occur on Kirton's Farm Road i guess.
This is the housing development happening right next to the station
https://www.berkeleygroup.co.uk/developments/berkshire/reading/bankside-gardens


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 14, 2019, 04:10:54 pm
515k for a 2-bed flat on the outskirts of Reading! Blimey!


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: stuving on May 14, 2019, 06:34:16 pm
That's a good question, as the road in Green Park and the lane over the railway remain isolated from each other to prevent through traffic. It would make sense to have some access to at least drop people off on that side. There is the possibility that parking could occur on Kirton's Farm Road i guess.

The only access will be via the interchange, and there will be no direct access to the Up platform apart from over the footbridge - not even for properly authorised newts. I presume the present works access in from Kirtons Farm Road will be reopened as part of Cycle Route 23 (currently diverted down Longwater Road), for pedestrians and bikes but not cars.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Reading General on May 15, 2019, 10:32:51 am
515k for a 2-bed flat on the outskirts of Reading! Blimey!
Quite! There are a fair few people who are under the impression that crossrail is a brand new fast line to london fully underground all the way into the Thames Valley. Many estate agents appear to be selling it as such, and as a result housing prices reflect this.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/reading-named-the-best-place-for-first-time-buyers-in-the-uk-2019-89xtwqvlh

Hmm.
Not sure this is true for many from here in the first place.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: stuving on May 15, 2019, 10:40:27 am
Quite! There are a fair few people who are under the impression that crossrail is a brand new fast line to london fully underground all the way into the Thames Valley. Many estate agents appear to be selling it as such, and as a result housing prices reflect this.

Berkeley and their copywriting weasels have taken care to not say that - not quite:
Quote
    A vibrant new destination for Reading
    Uber-stylish waterfront apartments
    Concierge, co-working studio, residents' gym and cinema room
    Extensive landscaped gardens and parkland
    New train station to Reading and Crossrail in 6 minutes
    Reading to London Paddington in 26 minutes

I find their weasels' prose rather funny - I mean, what style to you associate with Uber? Would you like to live in (rather than just near) a "vibrant destination"? Some of the internal descriptions are even better ... I guess it is just possible I'm not in their target demographic.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Reading General on May 15, 2019, 06:48:38 pm
I'm quite surprised that it being in Reading is even mentioned. Some developments just point out the journey time on the earliest train to london and that's it! It's as if there are no trains going anywhere else from here. Why wouldn't you let people know how long it takes to other places of potential work or leisure, Oxford, Basingstoke, Bath, the south coast, direct trains to three airports etc. Why not broaden the range of people your attempting to sell to? Or are london workers the only ones willing to pay that much to live in Reading? What a daft world.

Anyhow I'm still quite excited that a new station is opening in my town and the possibility of getting the train to watch the biccy men avoid relegation in the future.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: onthecushions on May 15, 2019, 06:56:18 pm

Estate agents once told me that they advertise "living at Reading" rather than "living in Reading"!

A Deo et Regina,

OTC


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: TonyK on May 16, 2019, 04:37:36 pm

Estate agents once told me that they advertise "living at Reading" rather than "living in Reading"!

A Deo et Regina,

OTC
Sic Transit Gloria Swanson.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: bradbrka on May 29, 2019, 10:32:56 pm
I took a slight detour when walking around Green Park yesterday to look at the site of the Green Park station from the Kirtons Farm Road bridge to see if there has been any developments.

The answer is yes and no.

Yes, the ground work for the access road, parking, drop-off point etc. coming along.
No, nothing that will enable trains to stop.

I took some pictures and will try to share them tomorrow

The pictures I took didn't come out to well so I went back this weekend to have another try.

The 3 views from Kirtons Farm Lane bridge are below, all looking north towards Reading.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: eightonedee on May 30, 2019, 09:51:58 pm
Hmm - not much work on the station itself yet..........


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Adelante_CCT on June 07, 2019, 01:10:00 pm
Now pushed back to summer 2020, allegedly

https://www.reading.co.uk/green-park-railway-station-application-submitted/


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Reading General on June 07, 2019, 06:59:10 pm
I do find the name Reading Green Park a little strange as it's not as if you could quickly get to the town centre. Reading West is valid but it's not Reading Tilehurst or Reading Earley. If it was a parkway type station like Bristol Parkway then perhaps the name would be valid. I only learnt recently that Parkway is the name of the M32 into Bristol and I guess that the term meaning car parking was simply adopted for other locations.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: eightonedee on June 07, 2019, 07:11:58 pm
I have previously suggested "Mad Stad"........


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: stuving on June 07, 2019, 09:23:01 pm
I do find the name Reading Green Park a little strange as it's not as if you could quickly get to the town centre. Reading West is valid but it's not Reading Tilehurst or Reading Earley. If it was a parkway type station like Bristol Parkway then perhaps the name would be valid. I only learnt recently that Parkway is the name of the M32 into Bristol and I guess that the term meaning car parking was simply adopted for other locations.

It would be even stranger if it was just "Green Park". No, not that one - nor the other one either. It's the one near ... well, Reading, as there it isn't really near to a place with a name other than that. And it's not that close to the stadium.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Reading General on June 08, 2019, 02:28:18 pm
I can't see people getting confused with which Green Park it is, and after all is the name of the place, albeit a made up one. I think it would be potentially more misleading if people left the train here expecting to change to another train or find the town centre. Perhaps if Reading (general) station had a second name it might be more appropriate to prefix with the town's name. Perhaps it's time to revive General.
 
There is the traditional railway method of adding the county name in brackets similar to Bramley (Hants) two stops down, or use the arrangement like the Southern oddity of London Road (Guildford).

I have certainly seen people leave trains at Reading West expecting to change trains but at least the town centre is in sight for those who alighted there to reach the town centre.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: CyclingSid on June 08, 2019, 06:04:26 pm
There have already been incorrect links from Reading Green Park to the Green Park in London. I don't know how the development came to be called Green Park. The one slightly north is Kennet Island which is vaguely understandable, not an island but within sight of the Kennet. Certainly better than the concept of Didcot on Thames.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Reading General on June 08, 2019, 06:55:23 pm
You would have to be pretty naive with maps to confuse this one with a tube station and park in london but I guess people following technology rather than common sense leads to these problems and others must just find it difficult. When I drove buses to Loddon Bridge park and ride from the town centre I encountered a handful of people expecting to go to london in the 3 years I was on it, some seemed fairly well educated types too.

There appears to be a lot of naming places for the benefit of search engines. The annoyingly vague Thames Valley Park in east Reading began the trend before the internet came along. It has been joined by Thames Valley Science Park south of the town now to add further confusion. A names such as Reading Gate, Reading Gateway, Reading No.1 and Reading International Business Park hardly inspire. Reading Borough Council seem to prefer brand new buzz type names for suburbs and areas rather than the historical reference points. Smallmead or Pingewood would be more appropriate names for this Green Park station and the development but I guess they don't inspire the global thinking types.
How about Green Park Village for the station? That's the name of the housing area next to it.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: didcotdean on June 08, 2019, 08:38:07 pm
How about Green Park Village for the station? That's the name of the housing area next to it.
There is the precedent of Bicester Village :)

Great Western Park in Didcot/Harwell is another example of a somewhat misleading development name. Used to be widely advertised as five minutes from Didcot Parkway - well it might be on the southern flank to the station by car or bus but is more than a mile across and much more remote and difficult to walk or cycle from than this suggests. The developers wanted the main road through it to be called Great Western Way (or possibly Avenue) but this was refused as there is already a Great Western Drive in Didcot.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Reading General on June 08, 2019, 09:43:08 pm
Isn't the pub called The Station or something?

I think Green Park's name was perhaps trying to pull at environmental strings upon it's naming. Green it is in colour with plenty of trees, but it has clearly been built for the motor car. Several different bus routes have to serve separate areas of it because of layout. and some of the bus stops don't even have pavement running to them. A previous transport manager at Reading Transport in the early 2000's told me he once went to seminar that had a talk on planning for public transport in housing and work areas. They put up a map on a screen to demonstrate an example of poor planning for bus routes and, although not labelled, he immediately recognised it as Green Park, and that was in it's early days!


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: stuving on June 08, 2019, 10:08:35 pm
I think Green Park's name was perhaps trying to pull at environmental strings upon it's naming. Green it is in colour with plenty of trees, but it has clearly been built for the motor car. Several different bus routes have to serve separate areas of it because of layout. and some of the bus stops don't even have pavement running to them. A previous transport manager at Reading Transport in the early 2000's told me he once went to seminar that had a talk on planning for public transport in housing and work areas. They put up a map on a screen to demonstrate an example of poor planning for bus routes and, although not labelled, he immediately recognised it as Green Park, and that was in it's early days!

There's that big whirly thing too.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: GBM on June 09, 2019, 09:58:19 am

.... or use the arrangement like the Southern oddity of London Road (Guildford).

There is a London Road, which is the next stop to Brighton, on the Brighton to Lewes Southern line


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: eightonedee on June 09, 2019, 06:41:29 pm
Quote
Reading Borough Council seem to prefer brand new buzz type names for suburbs and areas rather than the historical reference points.

Not just Reading to be fair. Remember the "Thames Gateway"? I have also been involved professionally with "Gateways" elsewhere - the term was very much in vogue 10 years ago. Sadly marketing folk like names like these  - there was a time when everyone had to have "Science" or "Technology" in the name of a business park, while "Green" and "Eco" have been more popular recently, and "Garden" is currently favoured. So let's (not) have "Reading Green Technology Gateway Garden Park"!!

As my Mad Stad idea has fallen flat, I'm for Smallmead or Pingewood, or for the unadventurous "South Reading" (or South Reading for Green Park and Madejski Stadium)


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: ellendune on June 09, 2019, 08:17:40 pm
Quote
Reading Borough Council seem to prefer brand new buzz type names for suburbs and areas rather than the historical reference points.

Not just Reading to be fair. Remember the "Thames Gateway"? I have also been involved professionally with "Gateways" elsewhere - the term was very much in vogue 10 years ago. Sadly marketing folk like names like these  - there was a time when everyone had to have "Science" or "Technology" in the name of a business park, while "Green" and "Eco" have been more popular recently, and "Garden" is currently favoured. So let's (not) have "Reading Green Technology Gateway Garden Park"!!

As my Mad Stad idea has fallen flat, I'm for Smallmead or Pingewood, or for the unadventurous "South Reading" (or South Reading for Green Park and Madejski Stadium)

Glad you said South Reading as Reading South has been used before!


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Reading General on June 09, 2019, 09:22:54 pm
Only oddly it wasn't south it was southern. South of General perhaps.
Were those stations on the Great Central main line with Central in the title closer to the middle of the towns than there counterparts? Or was it stating the rail line it was on? Parkway means car parking but the name appeared from Bristol Parkway which is named after a road. Different rail companies had different ideas about naming, and that still seems to be the case even with a national network.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: CyclingSid on June 10, 2019, 06:59:12 am
And possibly yet to come, Grazeley Garden Village, proposal currently somewhere in central government probably stuck behind a Brexit logjam.

They want a new station on the Reading - Basingstoke line, or if all else fails move Mortimer station ( a somewhat inflammatory proposal methinks). Details can be found if you rummage on the Wokingham BC website.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: stuving on June 10, 2019, 09:32:12 am
Only oddly it wasn't south it was southern.

Not odd - it had been Reading Southern from 1923 when the company name changed from South Eastern, but that wasn't part of the official name. Its owners called it "Reading", as did GWR theirs, and as happened quite generally. People added the company name so they could tell them apart.

On nationalisation, the companies disappeared, but something now had to be included in the station name so BR could distinguish them. Apparently, at Reading they went for General and South, changing back (in a sense) to Southern in 1961 - no doubt because South suggests something in the south of the town ... though probably not as far out as Green Park.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: grahame on June 10, 2019, 10:52:02 am
Only oddly it wasn't south it was southern.

Not odd - it had been Reading Southern from 1923 when the company name changed from South Eastern, but that wasn't part of the official name. Its owners called it "Reading", as did GWR theirs, and as happened quite generally. People added the company name so they could tell them apart.

To this day, you have "Wigan North Western" from London North Western Railway - that's the company that operated it until the end of 1922.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Reading General on June 10, 2019, 12:05:41 pm
Reading Great Western? Nice ring to it

When I was young I was always fascinated by the intriguing station names when I visited General and heard announcements (I applied for the announcers job in the early 90's an announced the Hereford train across the station as part of the interview).
Magical sounding places like Worcester Shrub Hill, Worcester Foregate Street, Birmingham New Street,Liverpool Lime Street, Manchester Piccadilly even Dorking Depedene. Bristol Temple Meads was the most exciting name, the pictures created in a young mind. All Reading ever got was General in brackets and by the time I came along this was dropped as well. It still appeared on some signs when I was young and was what my dad referred to the station as.

Cheers


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: paul7755 on June 11, 2019, 11:16:43 am
Im a bit confused now...   ???

What was the planning application for that was reported (by eightonedee in post 62) to have been approved in March?  I thought that and the previously discussed applications had already been for a station?

From Reading planning site:
190858
Site Address:   Green Park Station
Description:   Construction of a building comprising ticket hall, public conveniences, staff facilities and ancillary retail provision to serve the proposed Green Park railway station development, including associated signage...

So is this definitely just a building?

Paul


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: Adelante_CCT on June 11, 2019, 12:38:26 pm
Yes, I believe this 'new' application was for the station building rather than the actual station


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: stuving on June 11, 2019, 03:01:13 pm
Yes, I believe this 'new' application was for the station building rather than the actual station

The last complete planning approval in 2015 was for the interchange, multi-storey car park, and an unmanned station. That has now lapsed, the station had to be moved south and extended south, and the the station is now include booking office other passenger and staff facilities. The shift over the borough boundary meant Wokingham had to be involved too, and that station application covered a redesign of the interchange too, but omitted the building itself.

I think they wanted to avoid involving Wokingham in this one for the station building, on the grounds it could only add difficulties. Oddly, the new application says "the location of the proposed station building was shown indicatively on the approved drawings for the original applications", but all I can see is some cycle parking and ticket machines.


Title: Re: Reading Green Park
Post by: TonyK on June 11, 2019, 07:55:01 pm

There's that big whirly thing too.

That's the one that generated 100,000 worth of electricity, and 130,000 worth of subsidies in 2011.



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