Great Western Coffee Shop

Petition response - see http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page18921 (http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page18921) for full list of signatories, etc.

"We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to reopen Wootton Bassett Train Station."

Details of Petition:

"Wootton Bassett is a town of 11,000. It used to have a train station, providing easy access for travellers to Bristol, Swindon, London and the South Coast. However, the station was closed in 1961 because of the Beeching Cuts in the 1960s. The reopening of one of them, Wootton Bassett, is viable and necessary, and would be of great benefit to both business and commuters and the town as a whole."

The Government's response:

It is for the local authority to determine whether or not re-opening Wootton Bassett station is the best way to meet local transport needs. In doing so it would need to work with Network Rail and the train operator, First Great Western, to demonstrate that reopening is deliverable in engineering and operation terms, offers value for money and can be funded from local or regional funding sources.

Personal Comment

In my view, there is a good case for re-opening a station at Wootton Bassett. Indeed, it is one of the locations we have listed (along with Staverton / Holt, White Horse and Wilton) as being worthy of further investigation as a later phase of making appropriate use of the TransWilts line (http://www.transwilts.org.uk/pledge.html) - the first phase to get back something approaching an appropriate service, which should not be delayed while waiting for stations to be rebuilt.

Wootton Bassett would also have been an appropriate stop, along with Corsham, on the Oxford to Bristol service, and it would be very likely to be a sensible stop on any similar / revived service - thus giving Wootton Bassett a more frequent calling pattern.

Wootton Bassett is in the new unitary Wiltshire, so the government's answers tell the petitioners to have a chat with Wiltshire council.  However, most of the traffic from Wootton Bassett would be to non-council destinations such as Swindon, Bath, Bristol, Reading and London.   And the relatively short distance from Wootton Bassett to Swidnon is both a blessing and a curse. On one hand, it makes the traffic levels on offer very high.  On the other hand, it presses the case for a higher frequency service - typically, people are prepared to wait only shorter times for shorter journeys.

It would be good to re-open some stations, but not at the cost of the HSSs.

HSTs must not be slowed any further by extra stops/ getting stuck behind stoppers.

An excellent question asked of me by email - "what about Wootton Bassett", and it was asked in the context of (re)opening a station there, and support for such from the TransWilts Community Rail Partnership.  It's too early for there to be any official line, but I wrote a full answer and felt it worth sharing here - partly to let those of you with more knowledge that I chip in and add your own elements to the jigsaw.

For reader who don't know Wootton Bassett - it's town that's six miles to the west of Swindon, at the point where the London to Bristol via Bath and to South Wales via Badminton and Bristol Parkway split.  The original station there closed 40 to 50 years ago and since then the tracks have been re-aligned and there's no platform or station buildings remaining.   The town itself is busy - in some ways it's become a suburb of Swindon, to which there is a major flow, largely by car but also a significant number of buses that people use.  However, the roads are busy, and the bus takes 20 to 33 minutes.

I wrote:


The question I was asked went on to ask "If Great Bedwyn can have an hourly terminator from London, then surely Wootton Bassett has a good case" - I am paraphrasing here.


Carrying through to an initial conclusion ...


That Corsham link : http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8106.0

Potential sites on the TransWilts for which I'm aware of aspirations for new / re-opened stations are (North to South): South Marston, Blagrove, Wootton Bassett, Lacock, Staveton / Holt, White Horse Trowbridge, Wylye, Wilton and Petersfinger. That's not expressing any view on any individual cases here - just saying I'm aware of them.

I do feel that some of the very genuine and realistic cases put forward for re-opening of stations are greatly undermined by some that are really best described as "no hopers" !

Melksham certainly has a very, very good case, BUT -  Lacock, Wylye, Wilton,  Petersfinger, etc ,etc ? (Have you seen the old photos of Lacock Halt ??)
Even in the days of steam, when private car ownership was pretty much for the well-heeled, these stations were very little used. If you look at many of these stations most of them are actually more that a short walk from the local "centre of population". I can remember (just) when Codford and Heytesbury were still open - they were a three day camel ride from the village ! Who is going to get a bus from, say, Wilton to the station, when that same bus can take you straight into Salisbury? Who is going to operate that bus for a handful of passengers each day ?

I am all for greater use of the railways but promoting lost causes really does more harm than good for the credibility of the argument.

It is worth remembering, however, that we have a far more mobile population now than was the case in the pre-Beeching era. Just reopening stations is often not the answer as monnrakerz points out, but to dismiss them out of hand as "no-hopers" maybe a tad disingenious.

More 'Parkway' type stations, which can serve a wide area, with integrated public transport and decent car-parking facilities, perhaps?

Please please note that I was very careful to say "for which I'm aware of aspirations for new / re-opened stations".  Being aware does NOT make a case or imply that I would support it for what that's worth.  But at the same time, I keep an open mind and don't just dismiss an idea because the trains in pre-Beeching days were quiet - we must look at new flows too.

Right.  No opinion expressed on viability but ...  You drive up from the West Country for your week's work in London, pull off the A303 to a park and ride station in the countryside where you can leave it all week if you like.  There are direct trains to London at 06:20, 07:20 and 08:20, getting back at 18:08, 19:08 and 20:08 and 21:08.  There are a handful of other direct trains though the day.  And there's an hourly service from that A303 trunk to Salisbury, Southampton, Portsmouth too during the day - not nice journeys from the West country, with a change at Salisbury for London.

Absolutely NOT part of a core "TransWilts" strategy ... but worth spending a few minutes asking "might there be something for the future here" rather that dismissing it out of hand as mad-cap without even a look, a talk with people, and an understanding of where the case is coming from.  And that understanding needs to look at modern requirements, flows, and potential flows - not the village traffic from the 1950s

And my original post also says ... but we're also going to need to be cruel to be kind sometimes, and say "no - we can't push xxx because it would risk so much else".

P.S. Some, for sure are likely to be revealed as very unlikely candidates - but that's after a look at the skeleton of the suggestion and not just based on a place.  I think we'll do a good service to all by taking an open view, but realising that a service that uses existing tracks and existing stations is probably the first step, an order of magnitude more affordable than schemes that call for new tracks or stations.

So explain Long Buckby?

A good friend of mine lives in Daventry - nearest station is miles from Daventry with little or no bus link.

Its almost easier to get the train to Rugby/Northampton and get the bus from there than it is to go to Long Buckby.  I used it because I take me bike but if I didnt, I'd either drive (about 90 minutes each way minimum) or go rugby/northampton route.

The reality about re-openings on InterCity lines is that the faster and more frequent the main service is, the more difficult it is to fit in stopping trains, evidenced by the loss of local services along the main lines. Thus minor, slower routes, including slow/relief lines are often the best for re-openings. If Didcot-Swindon were ever quadrupled for freight, as may be reasonable, then platforms near population centres and cascaded emu's could follow. If Chippenham's extra platform materialises and extra stock  found then there would be hope for Melksham...

Electrification would also help as the better legs of an emu reduces performance difference between stopping and fast services, as the RUS points out.

Good luck to Wootton Bassett (and Melksham)

OTC

There are, of course, individual cases which disprove my general comments. I can't comment on Long Buckby as I don't know anything about it - BUT I do know well most of the places Grahame ( I did note his comment regarding support !) mentioned and feel that my comments are fairly well founded.
Grahame says "a service that uses existing tracks and existing stations is probably the first step" - totally agree ! this is just what he personally is doing for Melksham - but all the other stations mentioned have long gone, the cost of rebuilding just one would be enormous !
Mac has a valid point about the usefulness of "parkways" - but "Lacock Parkway" ??  Sorry, but when you put "Wylye Parkway" in the same case as expanding services through Melksham it really does make the whole argument a little silly and very easy for those who wish to opposite expanding Melksham services to show how poor the arguments are.
If you are going to put forward a really sound case I am afraid that putting in "pie in the sky" proposals (even as trading points) just weakens the whole case.

For those interested in Long Buckby, there is more information (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Buckby_railway_station) in Wikipedia.

Just looked up the station usage figures - they aren't great for Long Buckby

Championing "pie in the sky" cases as an integral part of the TransWilts suggestions would be enormously damaging.  But failing to even acknowledge that a lot of other aspirations exist at a time that we're setting up a new body for the route would be sticking our head in the sand.  This is a good time to list / document anything of potential interest, but I personally doubt whether any should / could / would be included in the early stages of an improved service.  Most - and perhaps all - wouldn't be likely candidates even in the foreseeable future.

We're looking at current and projected travel requirements and stations - everything from the tiny aspects of repainting white lines in station car parks to make them more user friendly and asking for a service to be retimed 5 minutes to make an extra connection, though to much bigger cases.   We set up a steering group last Friday evening, and that meets - for a longer and more substantive session - on Saturday, 17th April.   There are lots of doors and until then, we are not turning the key and saying "locked - we're not going through there" but rather acknowldeging that the door exists.  It's called "policy review", it's a community partnership and driven by real people in the community who have asked "what about xxxx" and community inputs are welcome.

P.S.  A couple of backup comments

Who suggested "Lacock Parkway"? That's a new one on me. I haven't yet explained the reason behind that particular suggestion that was made and it was not as a "park and ride" for some local town or other ... please don't put words into our mouths  ;)

I note the Long Buckby comments - thanks for those extra inputs

One of the things that does come from this review is information from "left field" sometimes.  And some of that information might be significantly, positively useful. There are some interesting rumours around at the moment. Remember that we're looking at a corridor which has substantial traffic flows, and which is growing and changing rapidly. For instance, let's consider an employer with staff in Trowbridge or south thereof may relocate a whole bunch of them northward towards Swindon, or one with a whole bunch in Chippenham or east thereof may move a bit south. Before my time - 25 years back - that was the catalyst behind the raising of the TransWilts service from a summer saturday only service that it had "enjoyed" for the previous 20 years, with a single Wolverhampton to Weymouth via Oxford  return trip hauled by a Hymek.   Different times, but we can learn from history.

I must dash - 06:30 meeting  ;D

No one did - nor "Wylye Parkway";  joke - to make a point    ;D

Golly gosh...

http://railwayeye.blogspot.com/2010/03/open-access-without-orr-approval-way-to.html

Already the subject of extensive (and even perhaps intensive...?!) discussion here (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=6509.0). ;)

From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/wiltshire/hi/people_and_places/newsid_9382000/9382142.stm):

While I might quibble about the historical accuracy of the story (nationalisation in 1965?) it's good to see the proposals getting some publicity.  To run this service and eliminate overcrowding around Bristol (see another recent post), we desperately need some new rolling stock.  According to the latest Modern Railways, it was 666 days since the last new train order - it seem's to be the devil's own job!  ::)

I would agee entirely with onthecushsions that any reopening on a main line would have to be on a 4 track section to allow the stopper to be overtaken. This would make any new station very expensive as you would probably  have to provide the loops with assiociated points and signalling, and almost certainly a 4 track span bridge and lifts to provide disabled access to both platforms.

Having said that if we could run railways properly then a stopper enters the loop 2 minutes later the fast overtakes at full speed and the stopper departs 30 seconds later. The Japenese do with intermediate stations on the Bullet trains.

Is the new station planned to be to the east of Wootton Bassett Junction, with the possibility to serve both the Main Line and the Badminton line, or to the west of the Junction on the Main Line?  If the latter, this would preclude the possibility of a direct service to Bristol Parkway or South Wales but would mean that you would only have to fit in with 2 HSTs per hour, instead of 4.

In my neck of the woods, First Capital Connect manages to stop two trains an hour at Welwyn North, on a two track section with about 5 inter-city trains per hour plus a half-hourly non-stop to Cambridge and a half-hourly semi-fast to Cambridge / Peterborough.  It's tight and the 2-track section is relatively short, but it is possible with good timetabling and efficient operation.  The point about fast acceleration of EMUs, mentioned above, also applies.

I was reminded by this letter from my mailbag that we haven't mentioned RWB of late  ;)


In a nutshell, Royal Wootton Bassett is still very much there and in everyone's view.

The case for a TransWilts service to run hourly in the peaks, and at least once every 2 hours has been made from economic, business and operational viewpoints, and public business and community surveys have been done based on this service in order to learn about the local reception to such a service.  And in the summer, a trial service of extra trains was run on 8 Sundays to test if we really could get people to use extra trains.

All of the cases / surveys / trials have come out  exceptionally positive - not really a surprise when you think about it, as the TransWilts is not branch line to a terminus where everyone has to change mode away from rail at one end - it's connections all around.  And the TransWilts links links 4 SSTCs (Strategically significant towns and cities), with heavy growth projected, in just 57 miles of railway.

The case for a service at a decent level stands very much on its own - with trains calling at existing stations only.    And it needs to - we can't loose the chance of sorting out Trowbridge to Swindon, Chippenham to Salisbury and Melksham to anywhere issues because the only case made depends on the re-opening of a station somewhere else, with the effect that would have on timescales, bids, capital programs, etc.  HOWEVER ...

The operational study HAS also include the stopping of all trains twice more along their route - once at Royal Wootton Bassett, and once at Staverton.  Those studies have been made with the existing rolling stock (taking the trains with the poorest acceleration that might be used), but looking at the service level which will be run when the line from Swindon to Chippenham is electrified (worst case testing again), and it's confirmed that even in this scenario there are no problems with making the extra stops.

There is little point in getting a station built if there's nothing passing that can realistically stop there.   That's the longstanding issue with Corsham, and indeed the current situation at Royal Wootton Bassett too - the Department for Transport's current consultation on the next Greater Western franchise is touting the idea of cutting stops out rather than adding them in, to give faster end to end journeys and to save money too.  But ... add in a regional fast train (as opposed to intercity express) that passes through the town, and it's more practical and cheaper to build a station - it doesn't need to have platforms anything like as long - lower cost to operate, and has less negative effect on city to city traffic on which passengers really don't want to feel that they're on a "stopper".

Various inputs are going in to the consultation - from Wiltshire Council, from TransWilts Rail CRP, from our (Chippenham) MP, from the Chamber of Commerce, etc ... and we are co-ordinating those as best possible.  They're asking for the TransWilts service level to be set at that for which the case has been made.   And requesting a specification which allows for the additional stops which we know are possible to be added in later - i.e. allowing an extra few minutes of running time to allow for Royal Wootton Bassett station.  Our MP, indeed, specifically mentioned the station in his speech in parliament in December - although of course that was as something of an aside as it's off his turf - see
   http://www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?id=2011-12-20a.389.0&s=hames+transport#g397.2

There's more, too ... the LSTF bid currently under way is for a substantial sum which includes capital improvements up to and around the TransWilts - right across Wiltshire. It's all very much on the table and agenda, though there's very much more to putting in a station than there is simply to changing timetables to run a service on lines which currently have spare capacity, with stations already open. So we're hoping to have more Sunday trains again this summer, but you shouldn't expect them to stop at RWB.  It's unlikely that a station would be open and running from the first day of the next franchise (1st April 2013) either.   But it's being facilitated.

You - and other residents - could do so much to help push this forward, in fact:

1. It would be really useful if you could add your support to the consultation request too ;-) ... and to ask your MP to provide support.   I don't think he spoke about it in the debate. Consultation document is at
   http://assets.dft.gov.uk/consultations/dft-2011-36/great-western-franchise-replacement.pdf

2. It would be really useful for other organisations too around the town to do so. And especially involve the MOD [Lyneham changes], and Wiltshire Council [ Developer's Contributions]

3. An active group in Royal Wootton Bassett, pressing for the station and based on the real prospect of having trains that could stop, would help all of us press our cases.

Eyup, ere we go again: Swindon Advertiser says it's on again: http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/10434548._/ (http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/10434548._/)

I'm interested to know what they have to say about the old chestnut of the lack of a suitable stopping service - or has something changed?

There are three trains towards Swindon per day (arriving at Swindon at 07:48, 09:15 and 20:20) and two back (06:12 and 18:44) which are short enough to stop and be fully platformed / 15x units.    That will rise to 9 into Swindon and 8 back when the TransWilts service starts up - most likely May 2014 not December 2013 due to the franchise system changes.  The operational case for these extra services was looked at in detail by Network Rail in March 2011 as part of the TransWilts studies fronted by the Wessex Association of Chambers of Commerce and supported by Wiltshire Council and many others.

Although not a part of the business case for a TransWilts service (it has a BCR of 2.74), the stop at RWB was tested for availability in the operational case, and with a couple of specific comments, it is within the capacity.

Note that the Network Rail work was done on HST acceleration curves, but with a train frequency of them at the enhanced level of services after electrification, and assuming 153 units (slowest to gather speed) on local trains - very much a worst case study, at it still passed muster.

The above will give an hourly peak / 2 hourly offpeak service.  There's also a train parked up for 70 minutes in every 2 hours at Swindon that could shuttle out to / via RWB ... that's a more difficult issue as it'll need to turn around somewhere, and it may find itself assigned away from Swindon once Kemble, Stroud and Stonehouse get enhanced to an hourly through train to London.

Sounds like we could be seeing more interesting things happen around the GW region.

Perhap Go-op could also serve the station if their open acess service gets off the ground.
Sadly I very much doubt it especially since they have gone very quiet and their facebook page has gone

A long overdue update to this thread. It's triggered by an enquiry in my inbox, which may make the tone a little odd in places for a forum post - but the update / summary is good for the public record.

---

We divide work at TransWilts between the tactical / short term - that’s me (Graham Ellis) getting bums on seats, and the strategic / Long term which is looked after by our chair - Paul Johnson - involved in providing the extra seats, services and stations.   Bob Morrison, our membership / friends secretary, is our data controller of personal data - keeps note of where to send out the newsletter, who to invite to events / call up for local help, etc.  I’m taking the liberty of copying my answer on to Bob and Paul - we do overlap (so I will include some of the longer term stuff here) but they are both going to be far more detailed and current in their data, and will also be ‘up’ on the privacy stuff as to who we can refer on to in “RWB”.  Paul is also a career rail industry professional as well as having served a term as chair of the LEP, so knows  a thing or three about major projects.

OK - Royal Wootton Bassett.

There is great interest in a station … not only for the residents of the town, but also as a park and ride for Swindon.  Development plans as the town expands attract the thought of a station, with developers and land owners interested; the main site there, though, is to the east of the railway junction near the section of line which is used by the South Wales trains, the Bristol trains and the Westbury trains.  There are suggestions that a loop would be needed to allow a train to stop and perform station duties while another one passed it … and suggestions that with signalling headway there could still be capacity issues and you would need more than a double track all the way in to Swindon.  Some very expensive ideas indeed.    An alternative site - to the west of the junction on the Chippenham line - would require far less engineering. it might be done on current track layout, with the TransWilts train up to hourly and additional capacity available for a second train in the hour too, calling there on the way in to Swindon then slotting in behind the express from Cardiff or Swansea.

The ‘east’ option would use junction 16 of the M4 for Park and Ride access; the ‘west’ option a junction 16A which lays out easily on the map where the M4 crosses an existing unclassified (at present!) road. Both options are styled “Park and Ride” for Swindon - so the financing would almost certainly involve Swindon as well as Wiltshire - thank goodness they’re both in the same LEP, but there could still be border politics involved.  And being a Park and Ride, more than one train an hour would really be needed; stopping something that’s characterised as an InterCity express would be a hard sell, and the extra journey time for passenger between (say) London and Bristol on that train would put a dent in the business case.   An extra local service each hour would (perhaps) come from Bristol - but with only Royal Wootton Bassett extra station, that train would be difficult to justify.  Sure, it might be busy, but much of that would be abstracted from the long distance trains that are running on the line anyway. The case improves if you add a Corsham station - the sum of the two stations benefits in the total scheme making for something with a much better BCR (Benefit Cost Ratio) than either individually - no point in having a station if there’s not the trains you need to stop there.  And that’s my “enabler” comment on the proposal you came across; the improved TransWilts service would - just - give enough “regional” trains through RWB to serve the station - thinly, but the proposal does not need (any) of the new stations to make it work.  Timings do allow for the stops - the Swindon to Southampton service is designed / characterised to give a robust and regular service and not to be trimming minutes.

You mention extra traffic (to attract us to the idea ;-) ?? ).  Qualified “yes please”.  We really don’t want a train that’s so busy out of Swindon that it can’t take any more traffic, just to have it drop off most of its passengers at RWB and then carry fresh air all the way to the Solent.   We’ve already had the situation with the 17:36 off Swindon being so full and standing that we stopped marketing it for a while;  this year though the train has gone up from one to two or three carriages, and we have some breathing space.  And the platform at Melksham has been lengthened so the longer trains can stop and open all their doors - “single door” was adding significant delay.  Good news for RWB on the traffic though - trains headed out from Swindon pick up a lot of people at Chippenham and it’s from there to Melksham that the train is at its busiest (until you get to the Southampton area with certain peak services).  Timings from Swindon are typically just after a Bristol express to avoid us abstracting too much traffic onto a train that’s been too short to cope - even so, we have some regulars on the 17:36 who catch it because it’s far more friendly than the 17:30.

You mentioned that you found the Swindon to Solent suggestions with my name on them [ http://atrebatia.info/swi_sol_201712_v11.pdf ], which lead to this introduction. As ever in the rail industry, things may come in small steps, but what started off as a sketched idea from our community team (I’m not a railway professional by background, but have learned a bit) has been gaining traction. It makes sense for just about all parties - I could write even longer than the text above to fill you in with a benefit analysis,  and also point out the very few objections / losses / problems and how they would (no let’s be optimistic and say “will”) be worked around.  The idea has gone beyond the community in to the rail industry and central government too;  the SWR franchise requires a study of the Southampton to Swindon operational options, and SWR and GWR are co-operating on this and discussing elements as they go with us with what has become a good community rail track record, and with the Three Rivers partnership who’s trains currently serve the final third of the route. Wiltshire council has commissioned and sponsors two studies - on Wiltshire connectivity, and on the capacity issue that might arise on single line sections and at certain key stations.

Anyway - that’s my ‘end’ of the story and I have strayed rather a long way into Paul’s territory.   I’ll leave it to him to add anything I’ve overlooked at this intro stage.  It could be really useful - should you have the time - for you to take a look through the timetabling elements (I am currently digesting 87 pages of 2019 drafts for north and central Wiltshire) - TransWilts is “too, from and within Wiltshire” so we’re also aware of (and looking at) other aspirations such as a later train back from Bristol to Chippenham and Swindon.