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Title: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: Btline on May 27, 2009, 13:57:25 Quote A NEW train service could be a danger to users who are forced to flag down the moving carriages to make them stop, a mother has warned. The more frequent service between Truro and Falmouth was launched last week and hailed as an "historic" move by train operator First Great Western, but local users are unimpressed by the changes. Perranwell Station has become a request stop and travellers now have to flag down the train from the platform or ask the driver to stop the train. Liz Wood from Perranwell Station, whose teenage daughter uses the train to get to school in Penryn twice a day, said: "I think it's really dangerous; we tell children to stay away from the platform edge but now if you want to get on the train you have to stand on the edge and wave your hand in front of a moving train to make it stop. "My mum, who's 81 and walks with a stick, would have to walk down a wobbly train in the six minute journey from Truro to tell the conductor she wants to get off. "I feel that the trains should continue stopping at Perranwell until they introduce a safer system such as a button to tell the driver you want to stop." The trains now run every half an hour instead of every hour because a new passing place has been built in Penryn. But the trains will only have one carriage instead of two, leaving people dubious that the service will relieve congestion and improve public transport use, as First Great Western have claimed. "I don't understand why they've done it ^ what possible benefit could it have?" said Mrs Wood. "If you have to timetable to get from Truro to Falmouth and sometimes the train stops and sometimes it doesn't surely that's going to create a timing problem? "What about young children who get on the train and it doesn't stop so they end up at Penryn. "They've told me that if you are responsible enough to get on a train by yourself you are responsible enough to stick your hand out to stop it." A spokesman for First Great Western said the station is rarely used by customers and making it a request stop allows for a faster journey time. They said the train crawls through the station at a very slow speed meaning there is no risk to customers who hail the driver to stop and passengers on the train wishing to get off at Perranwell should contact the guard who will be checking tickets. They added: "The safety of our customers is at the forefront of everything we do and we wouldn't have introduced the request only service if we thought it would jeopardise this. "The decision to introduce the half-hourly service was primarily to give our customers more journey options and convenience as opposed to increasing overall capacity. "However, despite the reduction from two to one carriages, the new half hourly service has seen an increase of more than 400 seats throughout the course of the day." What do people think? From: http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/westbriton/Hailing-train-prove-dangerous-say-passengers/article-1027000-detail/article.html Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: RailCornwall on May 27, 2009, 14:26:42 I have left a pithy response on the website.
Quote How does this passenger consider that the service could be operated without Perranwell becoming request only to it's hourly timetable. There is absolutely no problem hailing a train at Perranwell. The only problem being requesting the service to stop, this really isn't an issue either as the conductor has adequate time to check passengers from either Truro or Penryn station. The new service is superb. Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: eightf48544 on May 27, 2009, 14:31:37 There do seem to be some contradictions in FGWs response.
They imply the service is half hourly which is correct for the branch but I thought the request stop for Perranwell was only hourly. So what happens if you try hailing the non stopping train expecting it to stop? Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: devon_metro on May 27, 2009, 15:00:31 Better put cotton wool on the platforms in case they fall over. Drivers are not blind, a simple hand signal will make them stop.
Why are people never happy. Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: Tim on May 27, 2009, 15:00:50 So what happens if you try hailing the non stopping train expecting it to stop? Er, it doesn't stop and you wait half an hour for the next one? Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: Tim on May 27, 2009, 15:06:01 Better put cotton wool on the platforms in case they fall over. Drivers are not blind, a simple hand signal will make them stop. Quite, All that you need to do is signal to the driver. You don't need to trip the train up to make it stop (wasn't there a Monty Python cartoon of an old lady tripping a bus up with her foot to make sure it stopped?).Why are people never happy. And if the train is too wobly to find the guard between Truro and Perranwell how about you speak to him at Truro before you get on the train and still have your feet on the non-wobly platform Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: Andy on May 27, 2009, 16:02:17 Bitchy comment warning....but I'll try to be diplomatic:
Sounds like the interviewee is too uninformed to know what she's talking about and the reporter too ignorant to realise her comments hold little water. Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: devon_metro on May 27, 2009, 16:48:05 Bitchy comment warning....but I'll try to be diplomatic: Sounds like the interviewee is too uninformed to know what she's talking about and the reporter too ignorant to realise her comments hold little water. Indeed, I didn't read the whole article as it was very predictable. As Tim mentions something interesting, might be worth pointing out that if the Guard does not pass through the train, then it will stop. Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: vacman on May 27, 2009, 18:40:54 Oh dear what sad newspaper prints this crap! in Cornwall there are TEN other request stops on other branches that have been that way for years! all it means now is that the kids who get off at Perranwell can't hide from the guard anymore to avoid paying as they have to tell him to stop! as for her saying that "sometimes stopping sometimes not" will mess up the timetable, well if she actually bothered to look at the timetable then she will see that every other train stops there so it is uniformed and timed tightly!
Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: Rogang on May 27, 2009, 19:11:10 The press in this area are determined to discredit FGW's service improvement. Customer numbers on the route are up, and the service has settled down to fairly smooth operation. And yet, we get another uninformed story. The service is tightly timed, and making the lightly-used stop at Perrenwell an hourly request stop only in the off-peak helps to keep the service delay-free
Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: inspector_blakey on May 27, 2009, 19:12:35 That's the biggest load of garbage I've read in a while. And that's saying something because in absolute desperation I resorted to reading an abandoned copy of the Daily Mail on a train the other day ;)
Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: IndustryInsider on May 27, 2009, 20:09:51 What can you say about this? Local papers need to sell copies or recoup their costs through advertising. The age of the internet has caused them to start cutting corners even more. 'Andy' has made the point spot on. The reports on the punctuality records set by NR and the TOC's over the last couple of days is a good example. A true 'good news' story, which every rag I have seen has managed to fill up half the article by negative paragraphs bemoaning the fall in Virgin and LM's performance, and typically negative quotes from union leaders.
If you manage to include a perceived safety danger, and potential problems for frail old ladies, then it seems to be a story worth running - whatever the thoughts of us 'informed' mature individuals. Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: Kingfisherdart on May 27, 2009, 23:29:40 Articles like this are those that give Journalism a bad name. Just a little extra research and the reporter would have known that the story is based on hardly anything.
Well done to First Great Western for having the initiative to provide such an enhanced service - and for the bad press to finally be unjustified. Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: moonrakerz on May 28, 2009, 08:13:14 That's the biggest load of garbage I've read in a while. And that's saying something because in absolute desperation I resorted to reading an abandoned copy of the Daily Mail on a train the other day ;) You obviously missed the story about money-grabbing UK shops ignoring the "new" EU rules about warranties !!!! Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: eightf48544 on May 28, 2009, 10:12:01 Whilst I agree that hailing a train is no big deal, I still have some confusion as to what the service is for Perranwell is.
Is it totally a request stop and are there signs on the platform to say "Hail a train"? Do all trains stop if hailed? If not then are there prominant timetables to say which trains will stop? Otherwise, I think there could be some confusion as to which trains you hail and which you don't. Presumably you might get the occasional stranger/hiker who turns up not knowing the service. If all trains don't stop if hailed, is this different from the other request stops in Cornwall where I believe all trains will stop? If it is different from other request stops then it needs careful thought about how it is implemented. This comes under "Attention to detail", which should be the mantra for the operation of the railway. Whilst the article might be a gross exageration, there is a grain of truth in it which does require consideration. The fundamental questions, therefore, are not about the veracity of the article but: "Is the system for hailing trains at Perranwell as robust as it can be? Is it explained clearly and concisely so that anyone can understand it?" Hopefully you locals can confirm that there is a robust system in place with the necessary attention to detail I've eluded to above. Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: RailCornwall on May 28, 2009, 10:41:35 There are full panel displays facing the car park and the platform indicating that the station is a request stop. Additionally the full timetable is displayed which clearly shows the services that stop on request and those that don't. Finally the press button for information loudspeaker service clearly advises that the intending passenger must stand 'in clear view' of the driver and deliver 'an appropriate signal' to the driver of the oncoming train that they want to board.
Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: FarWestJohn on May 28, 2009, 13:20:50 Yet another pathetic newspaper article where the facts are not researched. It is too easy to find a moaner.
I appreciate the improved train service apart from the first off peak train that whistles through Perranwell @0910 without stopping. Hopefully that can be added as a requested train in the future. It is easy to hail the train without being anywhere near the platform edge and all the signs and timetable are prominently displayed. On my return I have asked the staff as I get on if they will stop @ Perrranwell with no problem at all. As it is only a single 153 unit it is pretty simple to speak with the train crew. I do not see what is different to other request stops like Exton where not all trains stop and have done so for ages. Great improvement, lets get more people on the trains and ignore the moaners. Thanks Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: vacman on May 28, 2009, 22:42:35 Well said gents, like I say, it's no different to any other request stop and it just takes common sense to signal to the driver to stop the train!
Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: thetrout on May 29, 2009, 00:16:43 To be frank, I don't see what the problem is really... It's no different to sticking your arm out at a Bus Driver to show you want to get on a bus...! Which considering some of the places buses stop in cornwall, that can be a frequent event...!
Take the suburbs of Bristol for example, If you don't stick your arm out, the Bus doesn't stop... End of! ::) So to summarise, What is the difference to signalling to a Train Driver to show you want to get on, compared to flagging down the X1 in Weston-Super-Mare??! The Answer...?? Not Alot...! Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: cereal_basher on May 29, 2009, 08:10:20 Old Ladies in Cornwall seem to think the bus will stop even though they don't put there hand out, and then complain when the bus doesn't stop.
Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: bemmy on May 29, 2009, 09:39:07 Take the suburbs of Bristol for example, If you don't stick your arm out, the Bus doesn't stop... End of! ::) And sometimes if you do stick your arm out, it doesn't stop.... because punctuality is more important than passengers.Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: thetrout on May 29, 2009, 15:14:13 sometines the buses don't stop in Bristol when signalled because they are at maximum capacity. Something regularly seen on the number 70 Centre - Ashley Down college service.
Sometimes pax are never happy no matter what you do for them...! And what i disapprove of the most is when the old ladies stand and complain to the driver that the bus is 20 minutes late... Carry on arguing and we'll be 30 minutes late, sit down and stop moaning! Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: devon_metro on May 29, 2009, 16:02:40 If the bus was free, I wouldn't complain if it was late!
Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: Chris2 on May 29, 2009, 16:15:16 sometines the buses don't stop in Bristol when signalled because they are at maximum capacity. Something regularly seen on the number 70 Centre - Ashley Down college service. In this case it is entirely sensible for the bus not to stop. There would be a problem though if trains had the same rules. In this case all of the busy commuter trains would have to be reservations only, which isn't any use for commuters, or passengers that missed a connection due to a late running train or late flights. :)Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: bemmy on May 29, 2009, 16:39:09 sometines the buses don't stop in Bristol when signalled because they are at maximum capacity. Something regularly seen on the number 70 Centre - Ashley Down college service. Fair enough, but often they don't stop when there are plenty of seats free. I don't blame the drivers, it's obviously company policy for the sake of timekeeping statistics. Of course the delays are rarely First's fault, it doesn't take much to cause gridlock in Bristol. The other day I caught a mid-morning bus from Westbury to the Centre and the driver spent around 10 minutes of the 25 minute journey reading the paper at stops, which shows how much padding they've put in over the years to accomodate the frequent delays.In this case it is entirely sensible for the bus not to stop. There would be a problem though if trains had the same rules. When the train is full to bursting, the guard will only allow on the same number of passengers that get off. Been left behind a few times at Parson St, could hardly complain to the guard as I could see there wasn't room to squeeze one more person in.Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: inspector_blakey on May 30, 2009, 16:07:22 ...and yet...
I experienced First Somerset and Avon at their worst last Saturday in Bath. Was catching the hourly 332 service from Bath bus station, which is scheduled to leave at xx33. The incoming bus arrived slightly at 0936, but I suppose you can't blame them if they get held up by the traffic in Bath at the moment, given all the roadworks. What you can blame First for though is the attitude of the driver. Firstly he barked at everyone to wait behind the gate, then spent a good few minutes setting up his ticket machine very very slowly. He did eventually open to doors to let us on but then spotted one of his colleagues and called him over for a good long chat whilst we all waited. Having finished that conversation he was just about to pull away but then spotted another mate who he called onto the bus for yet another good long chat. The final insult was when he eventually did try to drive away well over 10 minutes late and couldn't get the vehicle into gear. So, whilst some of First's poor timekeeping on the buses is undoubtedly due to traffic congestion, there is also some very sloppy working from certain members of staff. Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on May 30, 2009, 19:21:46 isnt it the case that in reality at most 'request only' stops, the train stops anyway
Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: RailCornwall on May 30, 2009, 20:07:06 Having travelled on the service five times in the last two days I'd say that there is an education exercise with Perranwell Passengers going on. The assumption seems to be at present that if there is anyone standing at the Platform that they intend to board the service and thus the train stops. Clear instructions were then given to those boarding the service AND more significantly considerable efforts made between Truro and Perranwell to ascertain whether the service needed to stop. The issue will almost certainly fade away.
I do note another 'attacking article' against the service was the lead on Friday's Packet. It's not online yet to link to. When it is I'll post. Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: inspector_blakey on May 31, 2009, 17:34:09 isnt it the case that in reality at most 'request only' stops, the train stops anyway I'm open to correction, but I think the service will only run through the station if the conductor positively confirms to the driver that no-one wishes to alight and no-one signals the driver from the platform. In the absence of any communication from the conductor the train is supposed to stop. I've sometimes heard ATW guards giving the driver "two" on the buzzer when approaching Kidwelly or Ferryside to confirm that they don't have anyone wanting to get off, although I don't know if this is official policy or an informal arrangement. Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: cereal_basher on May 31, 2009, 17:50:55 Not sure whether it is official or not, it is common practice to use the buzzer for communication at request stops.
Guard gives one for passengers getting off the train or two for none getting off. The driver replies one if one is give, or one for passengers on the platform or two for none when the guard gives two. Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: Btline on May 31, 2009, 18:06:22 I've also heard this on ATW. (Cambrian Coast Line)
It makes sense - if the guard gets caught in the middle of the train selling a ticket, or hasn't checked the whole train - the train stops, as no buzzer signal has been given. It also saves the guard the bother of having to signal for every request stop. The guard only buzzes for "no stop". Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: Hafren on May 31, 2009, 18:48:55 My experience is similar - conductor tells the driver after checking tickets, and 1 buzz will then be given for any extra stops needed. Until they've finished checking, the driver will stop - last time I went on the Heart of Wales line, the conductor started checking at Llanelli, and didn't seem to finish until Llandeilo, leading to stopping everywhere (which meant he had to stop checking every few minutes) which didn't help with timekeeping! Coming back, the conductor didn't seem to give the driver the list of required stops, and just gave 2 for no-stops. Except at Sugar Loaf, where passengers are unusual!
Still in Wales, but bringing it back to FGW, HSTs and request stops produce an interesting mix. The Summer Saturday Pembrokeshire Coast Express workings miss out the halts on the Pembroke branch, but the balancing trains make request stops. In practice a lot of crews just treat them as mandatory stops - the timetable appears to allow a minute for each one these days so it doesn't do any harm if the train's on time. On the afternoon up working in particular, when there can be a lot of passengers on at Tenby, and short runs before the request stops at Lamphey and Kilgetty, it would be difficult to check the whole train and then rush to the right door for SDO at the next stop. In the morning the requests are more useful - yesterday it stopped at every station but I didn't see passengers at many of them. On the other hand, on one occasion last year the 1455 PMD-PAD was doing request stops. In fact, it was the end of the season, and there was no-one for Saundersfoot, where there's a proper stop with long dwell time for holidaymakers... but the TM gave 2 and the train pulled away, and ended up being 2 minutes early at subsequent stops. Similarly, it's common for ATW conductors to treat Manorbier as a request stop on down trains (it's a mandatory stop in the timetable and up trains have to stop for the crossing). This could create problems for uninitiated passengers - the timetable says the train will stop, and on rural routes people often travel short of the destination shown on the ticket, e.g. see sights or walk to another station, so the conductor wouldn't know they're going there and they wouldn't think to say. Title: Re: Hailing a train could prove dangerous say passengers Post by: vacman on June 02, 2009, 21:41:24 each driver and guard do it differently, they usually come to an understanding before they set off.
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