Great Western Coffee Shop

Sideshoots - associated subjects => Railway History and related topics => Topic started by: Chris from Nailsea on October 02, 2009, 23:19:02



Title: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 02, 2009, 23:19:02
This sombre occasion is covered in various publications:

The Reading Post: see http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/s/2058238_paddington_rail_disaster_10_years_on

The London Evening Standard: see http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23751599-ten-years-on-paddington-crash-survivors-tell-of-battle-to-recover.do

The Ealing Gazette: see http://www.ealinggazette.co.uk/ealing-news/local-ealing-news/2009/10/01/looking-back-10th-anniversary-of-horror-rail-crash-64767-24837148/

The Otago Daily Times: see http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/76414/nz-families-still-mourn-10-years-after-paddington-crash

The Telegraph: see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/vickiwoods/6256396/The-pain-of-Paddington-lingers-10-years-on.html

Lest we forget.  :(


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Mookiemoo on October 03, 2009, 00:17:09
Woh!

I havent done the links but I though the paddington crash was ladbroke grove

But i graduated in 97 and had a training course in reading that autumn - I had to get the slow line cos ladbroke grove had happened.

So what was paddington - I have dial up speed so links are not a good idea!


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: inspector_blakey on October 03, 2009, 01:25:08
Paddington/Ladbroke Grove are used more or less interchangeably to describe the accident that occurred in October 1999 where a Thames Trains service leaving Paddington passed a signal at danger and collided more or less head-on with an up FGW Cheltenham service. The first two cars of the 165 unit were all but destroyed, and there was a fire on the HST that engulfed coach H (the leading vehicle at the time). The final death toll was 31. Poor sighting of the signal involved (SN109) and poor driver training at Thames (the driver involved was quite newly appointed) were both cited as factors in the accident. The full investigation was long and complex, but the various reports are available online at http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/nav.1204 (http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/nav.1204).

The Southall rail crash (which also took place on the approach to Paddington, but has never to my knowledge been referred to as the Paddington rail crash) happened in September 1997. An up Swansea Great Western Trains (this was in the days before FGW) service passed a signal at danger near Hayes, and ended up side-swiping a goods train that was crossing ahead of it. Seven people were killed. The AWS* on the HST set had failed the previous evening, but due to a series of oversights and errors during the night the train had entered service the following morning without this fault being corrected. ATP* was installed and in working order on that set, but the driver concerned had not had the requisite refresher training in its use and so it was left switched off. In the absence of AWS to act as an audible prompt, it seems like the driver lost concentration and didn't register the double yellow/single yellow signal aspects; once he saw the red at Hayes he was still travelling at 125 mph and had no chance of stop in time. GWT was heavily fined on Health and Safety charges for allowing the train to remain in service without any operative form of cab signalling. Accident report and details are at http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/nav.1206 (http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/nav.1206). Sounds like it may be the Southall accident you remember from 1997.

*AWS - automatic warning system. Sounds a bell in the cab for a green signal aspect. A buzzer/siren sounds for a double yellow/single yellow/red aspect and the driver must press a button within a few seconds to acknowledge the warning avoid an emergency brake application. Once the cancel button is pressed, all braking is left to the driver.

ATP - automatic train protection. Train speed is continually monitored by an on-board computer which, together with "beacons" on the track, calculates the safe speed for the train bearing in mind the state of the signals ahead. This is displayed to the driver on his console. As long as the train is driven within this correct speed envelope, the ATP does not intervene. However, if it detects excessive speed at any point the train will automatically be slowed down to within the calculated safe speed. If ATP is installed and functioning correctly, the chances of a signal passed at danger are very small.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Electric train on October 03, 2009, 08:13:31
I am sure most of us can remember where we were when we heard the triadic news on that day.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Mookiemoo on October 03, 2009, 11:41:36
I think because I was still resident in Scotland until 2001 and was not as intimate with the south east as I later became I never registered the southall accident to the extent that once ladbrook grove happened, it overtook the memory.  ALthough to this day - I never travel in the front coach of any train.

I just remember going into london on the middle saturday of the training course and having to go to waterloo because the fast line was closed - the other abiding memories of that weekend was buying an almost black hair dye in the boots on Piccadilly circus and using it - discovering it made me grey and then dying my hair plum (purple) to cover it.  I wonder why me and a a big name accounting firm I was training with never got on well!


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: moonrakerz on October 03, 2009, 12:40:00
ALthough to this day - I never travel in the front coach of any train.


I'm afraid your logic is seriously flawed here ! There is nothing to show that the leading coach of a train is any more dangerous than the rear. In fact from an engineering standpoint I would have thought opposite was more likely - unless the train went head on into a really immovable object.

At Southall the most damage was to the 2nd & 3rd coaches.
At Ufton Nervet, the 3rd & 5th.
At Potters Bar the rear coach.

By coincidence I am at the moment reading a book about "survivability" (The Survivors Club by Ben Sherwod), I haven't come across any thing about trains but there is a section about air crashes, which is very interesting. 
It is always said that the rear of an aircraft is safer than the front. This was supported by a "Popular Mechanics" article which said that the rear passengers had a 69% chance of surviving, those in the front only 49%.
This how now been contradicted by the University of Greenwich, who say 53% in the rear, 65 % in the front.
Popular Mechanics or a University study ? take your choice !
The safest place on an Aeroplane ? - difficult to say - it all depends on the mechanics of the accident, if you knew that beforehand you wouldn't board that flight ! 

There are a few precautions you can take however.
Fly in a bigger aeroplane, more structure to absorb impact forces.
Sit within 5 rows of an exit - preferably a door, NOT an over wing exit.
Sit in an aisle seat.
Don't take your shoes off at take-off and landing.
Forget your carry-on baggage.
Wear cotton based clothing.

.........and amazingly people who worry about crashing are actually less likely to survive because they feel that they WILL die, so there is no point in trying to escape.

The US National Transportation Safety Board analysed all the aircraft accidents 1983 -2000 - 95.7% of the passengers in these survived.
Even in the 21 "serious" accidents 76.6% survived.

Flying is VERY safe - trains are MUCH safer still !


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 03, 2009, 15:07:06
You're safest in an airline seat with your back to the direction of travel towards the rear of the coach I believe? Though as to what actual carriage is the safest depends on the type of crash - as moonrakerz says, the number of major accidents that involve head-on collisions means it might not be the front carriage that gets the worst damage.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 04, 2009, 00:38:37
I have amended the heading in my original post, so any subsequent posts will clarify that we refer to the Paddington / Ladbroke Grove crash here.  :(


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Mookiemoo on October 04, 2009, 01:44:07
I have amended the heading in my original post, so any subsequent posts will clarify that we refer to the Paddington / Ladbroke Grove crash here.  :(

Sorry for upsetting people but I did honestly think 1997 was the ladbroke grove crash - southall was not even on the radar!  Upton Nervet I've heard mentioned but not sure what happened.  Hatfield I do know because the old journey time from l'pool to london went up to nearly 5 hours for months - just as I needed it!

Ironically I dont get scared on flights but I dont like using the loos on trains - the old being caught dead with pants down!  If you are in a pane crash then you wll be spread over significant distance so no pants on ankles moment


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: moonrakerz on October 04, 2009, 12:41:10
On the subject of rail, safety:

Ch Five Thurs 8th Oct 20:00.  "Megastructures - Built From Disaster", is about trains. May be worth a watch.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: moonrakerz on October 05, 2009, 13:19:55
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8290166.stm


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 09, 2009, 18:16:05
From getreading (http://www.getreading.co.uk/entertainment/film_and_cinema/s/2058699_pam_warrens_journey_of_trust):

Quote
Pam Warren's journey of trust

Pam Warren faced her fears this week when she took a 13-minute train journey into London ^ for the first time in 10 years. She agreed to make the journey for an ITV news documentary on the 10th anniversary of the Paddington rail disaster in 1999 in which she suffered severe burns to her face and hands.

On Tonight with Trevor McDonald, the Bradfield woman described the moment when she saw the fireball roaring through the first-class carriage towards her. She said she heard the ^very upsetting sound^ of men screaming. She said as the fireball engulfed her: ^I heard my hair crisping, I felt my skin crisping. The smell was terrible.^ And then she felt the pain.

After making the journey she spoke to getreading, explaining her misgivings. There were two reasons why she thought long and hard before agreeing to take part in the documentary.

The first and most obvious was the certain knowledge it would make her suffer distressing flashbacks to the rail crash.

The second was she was not prepared to allow herself ^ as the figurehead of the Paddington Rail Crash Survivors Group for many years ^ to be used by the rail industry to trumpet safety improvements until she was really certain things had changed.

Mrs Warren, 42, will not allow the crash to be described as an ^accident^.

The failings of the rail industry at the time ^ which led to Thames Trains and Network Rail being fined millions ^ meant to her that it was something that could have been prevented. But she does now believe the safety measures introduced since the crashes in Paddington ^ as well as Hatfield and others ^ have made railway journeys safer.

The cause of the head-on Paddington crash was a SPAD ^ a Signal Passed At Danger ^ when the Thames train travelling west went through a red signal and ploughed into a First Great Western express at Ladbroke Grove.

Mrs Warren said: ^There have been no accidents as a result of a SPAD occurring in the last 10 years.^

She agreed to be filmed making the journey with one proviso ^ that she would be allowed to pull out at the last moment if she was unable to go through with it. She said: ^It was very, very difficult. My psychologist was on the train with me and I kept him in sight throughout the journey.^

Mrs Warren said she took the trip from Slough ^ and not from Reading as she had on the fateful day in 1999 ^ because ^it was the shortest journey I could make^.

She said she would not be commuting but feels she will be able to make train trips in the future.

^I think at least I have put that behind me now,^ she said.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Btline on October 09, 2009, 19:27:28
That description of the crash sounds horrendous.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: JayMac on October 09, 2009, 19:34:33
From getreading (http://www.getreading.co.uk/entertainment/film_and_cinema/s/2058699_pam_warrens_journey_of_trust):

Quote
Pam Warren's journey of trust

Pam Warren faced her fears this week when she took a 13-minute train journey into London ^ for the first time in 10 years. She agreed to make the journey for an ITV news documentary on the 10th anniversary of the Paddington rail disaster in 1999 in which she suffered severe burns to her face and hands.

On Tonight with Trevor McDonald, the Bradfield woman described the moment when she saw the fireball roaring through the first-class carriage towards her. She said she heard the ^very upsetting sound^ of men screaming. She said as the fireball engulfed her: ^I heard my hair crisping, I felt my skin crisping. The smell was terrible.^ And then she felt the pain.

After making the journey she spoke to getreading, explaining her misgivings. There were two reasons why she thought long and hard before agreeing to take part in the documentary.

The first and most obvious was the certain knowledge it would make her suffer distressing flashbacks to the rail crash.

The second was she was not prepared to allow herself ^ as the figurehead of the Paddington Rail Crash Survivors Group for many years ^ to be used by the rail industry to trumpet safety improvements until she was really certain things had changed.

Mrs Warren, 42, will not allow the crash to be described as an ^accident^.

The failings of the rail industry at the time ^ which led to Thames Trains and Network Rail being fined millions ^ meant to her that it was something that could have been prevented. But she does now believe the safety measures introduced since the crashes in Paddington ^ as well as Hatfield and others ^ have made railway journeys safer.

The cause of the head-on Paddington crash was a SPAD ^ a Signal Passed At Danger ^ when the Thames train travelling west went through a red signal and ploughed into a First Great Western express at Ladbroke Grove.

Mrs Warren said: ^There have been no accidents as a result of a SPAD occurring in the last 10 years.^

She agreed to be filmed making the journey with one proviso ^ that she would be allowed to pull out at the last moment if she was unable to go through with it. She said: ^It was very, very difficult. My psychologist was on the train with me and I kept him in sight throughout the journey.^

Mrs Warren said she took the trip from Slough ^ and not from Reading as she had on the fateful day in 1999 ^ because ^it was the shortest journey I could make^.

She said she would not be commuting but feels she will be able to make train trips in the future.

^I think at least I have put that behind me now,^ she said.

I watched the ITV Tonight documentary about Pam Warren. Her courage and perseverence are to be admired.
It just a terrible shame that, as was mentioned in the programme, it is often catastrophic incidents like Ladbroke Grove that lead to great leaps forward in safety. The rail industry needs to keep it's eye on the ball all the time and not sacrifice safety for profit or operational convenience.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: John R on October 09, 2009, 20:22:06
I thought the program was reasonably balanced, and didn't try to dispute the view that rail safety has improved dramatically since Ladbroke Grove. (Only 1 passenger fatality due to an accident that was the fault of the railway since May 2002 is a remarkable improvement.)

Out of interest, how many HST's stop at Slough? Was the stop put on specially by any chance?


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: devon_metro on October 09, 2009, 20:31:26
I thought the program was reasonably balanced, and didn't try to dispute the view that rail safety has improved dramatically since Ladbroke Grove. (Only 1 passenger fatality due to an accident that was the fault of the railway since May 2002 is a remarkable improvement.)

Out of interest, how many HST's stop at Slough? Was the stop put on specially by any chance?

Varies between every half hour an hour. Mainly every half hour off peak


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: John R on October 09, 2009, 20:57:30
Thanks. I didn't realise that Slough was so well served by HST's.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Btline on October 09, 2009, 22:27:56
Thanks. I didn't realise that Slough was so well served by HST's.

Yep, Cotswolds and Oxford fasts stop (bar the peaks).

I assume that Slough commuters jut have to get a stopper in the peaks!


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 10, 2009, 16:51:06
Some of the following post here were becoming rather 'off topic', so I have split them into a new topic on 'Slough commuters', at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=5488.0

I felt this was appropriate, in view of the very sensitive nature of this particular topic.  :(

Thanks, Chris.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Bulliver on November 09, 2009, 19:54:32
Two major facts were excluded from most media reports on the Ladbroke Grove collision, following a train passing a signal at danger. 

    In normal railway practice, where one running line joins another, there is a set of trap points (or derailer) which diverts an errant train away from the route it would otherwise have taken.  Such trap points would be followed by a sand drag into which the train would plough and come to a very sudden but, depending on its speed, relatively safe halt.  There were no such trap points (or derailer) at the end of the line controlled by Signal 109, either because they had never been installed, or they had been removed to save the maintenance cost of such a once universal safety feature. 

    On 23rd June 1999 at Winsford, Cheshire a train on a slow line passed a red signal, ran onto a fast line and was hit in the rear by another train ^ because there were no trap points at the end of the slow line.  In this collision, just months before Ladbroke Grove, no one was killed or badly injured.

    Both at Winsford and at Ladbroke Grove, the presence of such points would have averted the collisions

    The other piece of normal railway practice missing was the way the facing points immediately beyond Signal 109 were set when 109 was at red.  Had they been reversed to take any down train passing the signal at danger onto the track to the right ^ which was also a down line ^ then no head on collision would have been possible.  As at Winsford, the worst that could have happened would have been two trains going the same way colliding.

    Another question concerns the failure of the driver of the down train to respond to three AWS (Automatic Warning System) alarms before accelerating past Signal 109.  The driver of the train that passed 109 at red would have heard and cancelled those three warning horns telling him the signals he was approaching were at caution or danger.  Instances of unconsciously cancelling AWS (and its decades old GWR predecessor Automatic Train Control) warnings are legion; that is why ATP (Automatic Train Protection) ^ which cannot be over-ridden in the same way ^ has now been installed on most if not all trains, even preserved steam engines, running on the national network.

    As in most railway accidents, it was human errors that led to the Ladbroke Grove crash.  Whilst some of those errors occurred on the day, others were built into the system waiting to be part of it.  Even a fully automatic railway would still have been designed by humans.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 09, 2009, 20:06:23
Welcome to the Coffee Shop forum, Bulliver - and thank you for posting such an informative summary.

Chris.  :)


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: willc on November 10, 2009, 00:22:38
Quote
that is why ATP (Automatic Train Protection) ^ which cannot be over-ridden in the same way ^ has now been installed on most if not all trains

No it hasn't. ATP is only active on the HST fleet on the Great Western Main Line and on the Chiltern Line's Turbo and 168 fleets.

What was fitted nationally was TPWS (Train Protection and Warning System) - which is an enhanced version of AWS, offering many of the benefits of ATP up to 75mph or thereabouts, in terms of stopping a train passing a signal at danger, but full ATP it ain't.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: JayMac on November 10, 2009, 01:21:08
TPWS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_Protection_&_Warning_System

ATP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Train_Protection

AWS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Warning_System


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: paul7575 on November 10, 2009, 12:55:02
    In normal railway practice, where one running line joins another, there is a set of trap points (or derailer) which diverts an errant train away from the route it would otherwise have taken.  Such trap points would be followed by a sand drag into which the train would plough and come to a very sudden but, depending on its speed, relatively safe halt.  There were no such trap points (or derailer) at the end of the line controlled by Signal 109, either because they had never been installed, or they had been removed to save the maintenance cost of such a once universal safety feature. 


This is called 'flank protection', and was discussed widely at the time of the original imquiry. Are you just pointing out that it wasn't mentioned by the media during the tenth anniversary reporting?Derailers or trap points seem to be more useful at the end of loops, where a train cannot be diverted onto another line.  I'm not so sure about them being feasible in multi track bi-directional areas, except on the outer lines.  I expect the Cullen Report covers it, it'll be online somewhere...

Interesting point about 'GW ATP', I believe that when the current kit it is life expired it will be removed and there are no plans for a like for like replacement. It is only on the GW as an experiment after all.  So there may be a gap between ATP removal and ERTMS roll out. I wonder if there'll be a public hue and cry?

Paul


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Tim on November 10, 2009, 14:56:40
Interesting point about 'GW ATP', I believe that when the current kit it is life expired it will be removed and there are no plans for a like for like replacement. It is only on the GW as an experiment after all.  So there may be a gap between ATP removal and ERTMS roll out. I wonder if there'll be a public hue and cry?

Paul
Correct although we do have TPWS into Paddington now (I assume that this was only installed because of anticipated ATP removal - it is currently not neccessary is it?)

One point about TPWS is that although it is only works at up to 75 mph, an improved version TPWS+ works at up to 100 mph and has been installed at high risk signals.  Also even if TPWS doesn't manage to stop a train completely, it will still manage to slow it significantly and thereby reduce the damage of any crash.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 10, 2009, 15:44:21
Also even if TPWS doesn't manage to stop a train completely, it will still manage to slow it significantly and thereby reduce the damage of any crash.

Yes, and that's a point that is all too often forgotten. The incident at Didcot North Junction last year is a prime example.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Tim on November 10, 2009, 16:59:50
Also even if TPWS doesn't manage to stop a train completely, it will still manage to slow it significantly and thereby reduce the damage of any crash.

Yes, and that's a point that is all too often forgotten. The incident at Didcot North Junction last year is a prime example.

IIRC, NR were critised after the Didcot North jnt incident because the site was "high risk" but TPWS+ had not been installed.  I'd only be happy to see obsolete ATP removed if proper risk assessment is carried out first and Didcot North Jnt type high risk signals are properly identified and addressed.  With Didcot N. the risk assessment had been done and TPWS+ identified as a mitigating technology - BUT it had not yet been installed.

It would be a great shame if we are only prepared to learn from tragidies like Ladbroke Grove and incidents like Didcot North (were an HST was 13 seconds away from collission with a Turbo) are ignored.



Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: devon_metro on November 10, 2009, 17:38:26
ATP isn't particularly reliable and quite expensive to install. Not to mention the fact that it causes delays as it restricts the speeds drivers can drive at, even if a green aspect can be seen on the horizon, the driver cannot accelerate until passing the ATP loop (I think!)

TPWS on vulnerable signals works on all other lines in the UK!


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Steve44 on November 10, 2009, 23:31:31
Am i correct in thinking that a couple of Carriages from the Southall crash were involved in the Ladbroke Grove crash? or am i thinking of something else?


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Tim on November 11, 2009, 09:56:33
TPWS on vulnerable signals works on all other lines in the UK!
But only if NR installs the equipment which it didn't do at Didcot North Junction


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: eightf48544 on November 11, 2009, 10:48:46
Two major facts were excluded from most media reports on the Ladbroke Grove collision, following a train passing a signal at danger. 

    In normal railway practice, where one running line joins another, there is a set of trap points (or derailer) which diverts an errant train away from the route it would otherwise have taken.  Such trap points would be followed by a sand drag into which the train would plough and come to a very sudden but, depending on its speed, relatively safe halt.  There were no such trap points (or derailer) at the end of the line controlled by Signal 109, either because they had never been installed, or they had been removed to save the maintenance cost of such a once universal safety feature. 

    On 23rd June 1999 at Winsford, Cheshire a train on a slow line passed a red signal, ran onto a fast line and was hit in the rear by another train ^ because there were no trap points at the end of the slow line.  In this collision, just months before Ladbroke Grove, no one was killed or badly injured.

    Both at Winsford and at Ladbroke Grove, the presence of such points would have averted the collisions

    The other piece of normal railway practice missing was the way the facing points immediately beyond Signal 109 were set when 109 was at red.  Had they been reversed to take any down train passing the signal at danger onto the track to the right ^ which was also a down line ^ then no head on collision would have been possible.  As at Winsford, the worst that could have happened would have been two trains going the same way colliding.

    Another question concerns the failure of the driver of the down train to respond to three AWS (Automatic Warning System) alarms before accelerating past Signal 109.  The driver of the train that passed 109 at red would have heard and cancelled those three warning horns telling him the signals he was approaching were at caution or danger.  Instances of unconsciously cancelling AWS (and its decades old GWR predecessor Automatic Train Control) warnings are legion; that is why ATP (Automatic Train Protection) ^ which cannot be over-ridden in the same way ^ has now been installed on most if not all trains, even preserved steam engines, running on the national network.

    As in most railway accidents, it was human errors that led to the Ladbroke Grove crash.  Whilst some of those errors occurred on the day, others were built into the system waiting to be part of it.  Even a fully automatic railway would still have been designed by humans.


I agree whole heartedly with Bulliver Ladbroke Grove was the most avoidable head-on collison  in British railway history.

To add to his summary there are a set of points 8059 B (now 9000) situated several hundred yards beyond Signal SN109 leading to the down relief, to give flank protection.  Which Cullen shamefully dodged in his report. These were set for the Up Main thus once the SPAD had occurred and the train was running away i.e out of control of fixed signals, it led inevitatably to the high speed head on collision on the Up Main. That's why SN109 was at danger because a train was coming up Line 2 which prevented the Turbo crossing from Line 3 to the Down Main.

Secondly there had been a dress rehersal 18 months before 6th Spad 14/2/98  where an HST passed SN109 at danger but fortunately stopped 400 plus yards beyond.  The IECC was able to stop an Up Heathrow express on the Up Main. I believe the trains stopped some 200 yards apart. I was caught up in this because our train had to back into Padd to clear the line for the HST to come back. It was reported in the press as a near head collision. Unfortunately the I didn't believe the"headon bit" as I had assummed that 8059B would have been set for the Down Releif with SN120 at green for Line 2 and Sn109 at red for Line 3. Had I realised that the "headon" wasn't press hype I think I would have written to HMRI asking why. At least my concerns would have been available to the Cullen report if nothing had been done.

My own speculation  is that it was the low sun shining onto the route indicator at SN109 that caused the Turbo driver to assumme the SN109 was showing a proceed aspect. At that time SN109 was an L shaped signal (non standard) with the red aspect to left of the lower yellow aspect at the same level, the green and second yellow were above the first yellow. Immediately to the left again was the route indcator showing DM or DR in white lights.  I think he mistook the overall whiteout caused by the low  sun to mean that the indicator wa showing a route and therefore SN109 was showing a proceed aspect.

Which could explain why he cancelled the AWS for Sn109 he assummed that it had changed to yellow.
I've looked back going into to Padd at SN109 before the changes to the new signals and seen the route indicator showing overall white in the low sun. I usually couldn't see the aspect becuse I was on line 6.

It was also the 9th SPAD at Sn109. 9 SPADS at one signal would have been unheard of in BR days without something being done. Usually by ASLEF demanding something be done because they were fed up with their drivers getting the blame for something being seriously wrong with the signal sighting. Unfortunately there is a school of thought which says it doesn't matter where we put signals drivers must obey them irrespective of how badly they are placed in relation to sighting distances etc. The other more traditional school tends to say lets put them in the best place and provide a track layout beyond the signal which avoids at least a head on collision if a driver SPADS and runs away.

The "running away" is not often mentioned most accidents are caused not by the SPAD as such but by the driver not realising he's SPAD and continuing to run. Most SPADS are a run  by caused by the driver misjugding his braking and the train stops within the safety margin beyond the signal.

Thanks Bulliver for your post.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Tim on November 11, 2009, 13:24:27
Unfortunately there is a school of thought which says it doesn't matter where we put signals drivers must obey them irrespective of how badly they are placed in relation to sighting distances etc.

There is of course a risk from universal adoption of ATP in that the signal people start to think that poor sighting and no flank protection is OK because it is impossible to SPAD.  That is fine if ATP is really universal and is always used and always works, but as we know GW-ATP can be switched off with deadly consequences, so I'd be reluctant to see traditional methods of mitigating risk (ie sensible signal sighting and layouts) abandoned. 

Of course the later stages of ERTM do away with lineside signals completely.  Drivers will have no choice but to compeletly trust the technology.   

Thanks for your Post


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 11, 2009, 13:33:35
There is of course a risk from universal adoption of ATP in that the signal people start to think that poor sighting and no flank protection is OK because it is impossible to SPAD. 

Even with ATP it is quite easy to still have a SPAD - albeit at lower speeds only.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 11, 2009, 20:45:13
I expect the Cullen Report covers it, it'll be online somewhere ...

Indeed: the various reports arising from Ladbroke Grove (including Part 1 and Part 2 of the Cullen report) are available on the website (http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/nav.1204) of the Office of Rail Regulation.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: anthony215 on September 17, 2011, 11:48:44
This has just been posted on WNXX:

http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/mxfmd/seconds-from-disaster-paddington-train-collision

 I think this is the Lambroke grove accident if i am right?

Sadly i dont have national geographic so i cant watch it although i may do so if it appears on youtube. This should be good if the previous episodes are anything to go by.

I am sorry if this is posted in the wrong place i just couldnt decide where to post it.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: ChrisB on September 17, 2011, 12:37:14
Ladbroke Grove?


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: anthony215 on September 17, 2011, 14:49:49
Sorry, for that i have always called it lambroke grove


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on September 17, 2011, 14:51:52
you may want to read this

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/incident-ladbrokegrove-lgri1-optim.pdf


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: bobm on March 04, 2014, 18:45:25
From GetReading  (http://www.getreading.co.uk/whats-on/arts-culture-news/paddington-rail-crash-survivor-pam-6771791)

Quote
(http://i2.getreading.co.uk/incoming/article6771693.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/JS32799332-6771693.jpg)

Paddington rail crash survivor Pam Warren has written a book about her fight for survival
 
Reading Post features editor Caroline Cook hears her extraordinary story

Pam Warren is a woman who has defied the odds.
 
When a fireball ripped through the first class train carriage she was sitting in at 8.11am on October 5, 1999, the chances of her survival were slim.
 
Minutes later as she was crawling underneath the wreckage of the Thames Train and First Great Western which had collided, with diesel dripping on her head, the future looked impossible.
 
And as doctors battled to heal her burns in Charring Cross hospital they couldn't be sure Pam would make it through.
 
But she did.
 
Pam Warren is a survivor.
 
Now 47, and living in Pangbourne, Pam has told her incredible story in a new book From Behind The Mask, in which she speaks candidly about the crash which changed her life.
 
Pam was just 32-years-old when she boarded the London bound First Great Western at Reading. A financial advisor living in Bradfield South End and working for her own company, she was living the high life, swapping the latest BMW for a Mercedes after a year and enjoying a 'work hard, play hard' lifestyle.
 
She was studying for her advanced financial certificate and on her way to a training day, which fatefully, had been moved to London from the Thames Valley because there were not enough people from the area attending.

"It was a cold, crisp, blue sky day and I remember standing on the platform with my eyes closed thinking 'gosh, this day is lovely'," says Pam.
 
The train pulled up and carriage H, the first class carriage, stopped just in front of her.
 
"I remember thinking that's lucky," she says with a sombre smile.
 
After taking her seat opposite a man who, unknown to her then, was Keith Stiles of West Reading, she did a bit of paperwork before sitting back and watching the world go by.
 
"Then we got to Ladbroke Grove and I always remember that it was the screeching first of all," she says. "For a second I thought someone has pulled the emergency cord. It was that sharp, grinding metal on metal sound.
 
"Just as I was thinking that, I must have looked at Keith, and I realised I was looking down at him. Both of us registered it. His face and my face, and it must have just been a look of 'oh my God'.
 
"That was when I realised something was wrong."
 
The Thames Train which had left Paddington Station at 8.06am had collided nearly head on with the First Great Western at a combined speed of 130mph.
 
Thirty-one people lost their lives and 400 were injured.
 
"It was just mayhem," continues Pam. "The carriage started bucking all over the place, we were being knocked around and it went dark. "There were brief cases falling down and all I could think of doing was grabbing hold of the seat and making myself small.
 
"That's when I looked over my shoulder and saw the fireball. It was probably only a second but it was enough for me to think 'I'm dead'."
 
The fireball tore through the carriage, leaving Pam with excruciating burns to her hands, face and legs.
 
"It did look like a movie special effect," she recalls. "I remember seeing yellow and orange and black and it was making this God almighty noise. I remember hearing men screaming which still upsets me.
 
"I had my hands up while it was going over and I have never been able to describe the heat. It's just impossible."
 
Immediately after the fireball had passed through Pam says there was a quiet in the carriage.
 
"I took my hands down and didn't realise how badly burnt I was. My leg had gone over the edge of the seat so it took the force of the burning, and it was still on fire.
 
"I put my hands down to put it out. Then I was over come by panic and thought 'I have to get out'."
 
Heaving herself out of a broken window Pam escaped from the wreckage, finding herself trapped in the middle of the 'v' shape with the two trains on either side.
 
Another survivor who had come from the buffet cart, helped her crawl under the Thames Train to safety.
 
"I think you go into survival mode. I think panic or getting upset or even registering hurt is ignored. Your brain goes 'I have got to survive'.
 
Sitting on the side of the tracks, Pam was comforted by other survivors who sprinkled water on her hands and hid the horror of her injuries from her. She would later be mistaken for another survivor, Evelyn, at the hospital, who had given Pam a jacket with her own ID badge in it.
 
After the ambulances arrived Pam was hoisted up out of the crash site on a pulley system, to a car park where survivors where being gathered.
 
"I remember, again just for a second, taking in the train crash, all those bodies laying around and my brain just went 'don't take it in, you have enough to deal with'. I shut it out."
 
Following the crash Pam was in a coma for three weeks while doctors added skin grafts to her hands and face. Although unconscious, Pam's survival instinct seemed to kick in and she continued to defy the odds.
 
"There was a bit of a scare because I was still in intensive care and there was some sort of virus going round," says Pam.
 
"If I got an infection on my wounds that could have seen me off. I caught double pneumonia too. I was not supposed to pull through."
 
She then spent another three months in hospital, undergoing painful physiotherapy and trying to come to terms with what had happened.
 
"They said I would probably get about 50 per cent usage back in my hands but I had to work hard.
 
"It took two hours to get the bandages off then when I saw why hands it was shocking. They didn't look like hands. It was like something out of a horror movie. But I had to do it. Even with the pain, I wanted more than 50 per cent."
 
It was more than a month after the crash that Pam saw her face for the first time.
 
"My doctor Nick [Percival] came up one evening and said, 'have you looked at your face?'," she recalls. "I said no, and he said 'you have to, and the time is coming close'.
 
"I waited until the next day when my family were not there and I went into my bathroom and I remember looking down the sink and there was a mirror and I gradually lifted my face to look at myself.
 
"I was horrified. It was just a mess. Even after six weeks it still was a mess. I just started crying.
 
"Afterwards when anyone came into my room I thought 'what must they be looking at'. That's when I started trying to hide my face, more so I didn't upset them."
 
It was her surgeon, Nick, who first suggested wearing the plastic mask which would help her skin to heal but would also become an iconic image of the crash.
 
Pam had been called as a witness to an inquiry into the crash and the day after her photo was on the front page of every newspaper. She became known as 'the women in the mask'.
 
"I went in on myself and refused to talk," she says, adding although she wasn't comfortable with the attention drawn by the mask, she realised it's importance.
 
"If the plastic mask needed to be the focus then that was it. It helped enormously in our campaign," she says.
 
In the wake of the crash Pam formed the Paddington Survivors Group to offer support to those who had been effected. The group took on greater significance as it successfully campaigned for better rail safety, helping to transform rail safety standards.
 
Although her work with the group was a focus in the months immediately after she came out of hospital, eventually the memories of the crash took over, and Pam stepped down in 2004.
 
She began having horrific nightmares of the crash but tried to hide them from anyone else until it all became too much, and she tried to take her own life.
 
"The suicide attempt happened when the nightmares and flashbacks were becoming overwhelming and I didn't ask for help," she says.
 
"As a result of it I had to have my stomach pumped and they wouldn't let me out of the Royal Berks until I was going to get help. I went to a clinic for people with psychiatric problems."
 
In her book Pam also talks briefly about the breakdown of her marriage, which happened several years after the crash.
 
Although she doesn't want to talk expressly about it, she says: "This is generic, but if you have a strong marriage and something like this happens you are going to work your way through. There must have been something wrong beforehand."
 
The nightmares and flashbacks she suffered in the years following the crash also triggered a period of alcoholism.
 
"I was having panic attacks and I didn't admit it to anyone," says Pam. "I was trying to cope and hardly sleeping. I started turning to alcohol to put me to sleep. I started with one or two glasses then a bottle and so on.
 
"That's a period of my life I'm very ashamed of. It is not who I am now or who I was before."
 
It was a meeting with Falklands war hero Simon Weston, through charity The Healing Foundation, of which both Pam and Simon are ambassadors, that helped turn things around.
 
"I went to visit him at his home in Cardiff and he said 'what would you like to drink?'. I asked if he had a glass of wine, but now I think he meant tea or coffee. He looked at me and started asking questions and he said, 'do you NEED a glass of wine?'.
 
"Admitting my problem to him was not as hard as it would have been to others. He was a relative stranger and I had a huge respect for him and he turned round and said 'Oh Pam, I have been there and done that'.
 
"To know it had happened to someone like that, I blurted everything out."
 
After putting that difficult period behind her Pam threw herself into work with The Healing Foundation, which works to support people living with disfigurement, and The Dame Kelly Holmes Legacy Trust which is committed to getting young lives back on track.
 
She works in project management and although not formally campaigning for rail safety, she still raises issues with the rail networks if people get in touch with concerns.
 
"Nothing can be 100 per cent safe," she says. "It's physically impossible. You have to accept there is a risk to catching a train, even I know that and I'm catching them now.
 
"But to me there is a level of unacceptable risk which is what was happening back then. If I stop catching the train, and I know a lot more about it than most, then people should be worried."
 
After travelling on a train in 2009 for the first time since the crash, during an appearance on Tonight with Trevor Macdonald, Pam now uses trains occasionally.
 
She some times travels to Paddington, always accompanied by a friend who assists her in the event of panic attacks which occur at times.
 
October 5, 1999 is a day which will always be part of Pam, she still has flashbacks of the crash and has to cope with the physical effects and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
 
But after everything she has been through, the Pam Warren today has a smile on her face.
 
"Writing my book has been helpful but mostly I have done it because this is my way of saying life is wonderful and don't give up.
 
"I didn't feel right writing it any earlier because I wanted to put hand on heart and say I am definitely through this, and I am."
 
From Behind the Mask by Pam Warren is published by Biteback Publishing on March 4.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: trainer on March 04, 2014, 22:33:26
I found this very moving to read.  Thank you for posting it.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: ChrisB on March 05, 2014, 11:02:44
^13.89 atr present from the publishers

https://www.bitebackpublishing.com/books/from-behind-the-mask-hardback


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: JayMac on October 05, 2014, 15:48:44
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-29493287):

Quote
Paddington rail disaster remembered 15 years on

Those bereaved by the Paddington train crash have marked the 15th anniversary of the disaster with a ceremony.

They have placed flowers at a memorial site high above the railway line at Ladbroke Grove in west London.

Just before 08:10 BST on 5 October 1999, 31 people died when two trains collided almost head-on.

The subsequent inquiry found the Thames Trains service travelling from Paddington to Bedwyn in Wiltshire had gone through a red signal.

It then crashed into the London-bound high-speed First Great Western train which had left Cheltenham Spa in Gloucestershire at 06:03.

The Thames driver, Michael Hodder, 31, and the other train driver, Brian Cooper, 52, were among those killed as the collision led to a fireball in which coach H was burnt out.

As well as the fatalities, more than 220 people were injured.

'Lives changed'

Paddington Survivors group chairman Jonathan Duckworth, 56, from Stroud in Gloucestershire, was on the First Great Western train.

Father-of-two Mr Duckworth said: "Luckily, I was only in hospital for around 24 hours but then I suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder.

"I had to have about 18 months of treatment and was only able after that to take on small, part-time jobs.

"It was six or seven years before I was able to work full-time again."

The Paddington disaster was followed by fatal rail crashes at Hatfield in Hertfordshire in 2000, at Selby in North Yorkshire in 2001 and at Potters Bar in Hertfordshire in 2002.

Michael Roberts, director-general of the Rail Delivery Group, which speaks on behalf of Network Rail and the train operators, said: "We remember those who lost their lives and all those whose lives were changed as a result of the Paddington crash.

"After serious accidents in the early 2000s, changes such as an overhaul of employee training for those doing safety-critical jobs and a better approach to staff working hours have helped improve safety on Britain's railway."


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: readytostart on October 05, 2014, 16:04:58
Used to work with a lady who was travelling pass on that fateful HST, hearing her story always put me on edge for a few days.

Unfortunate typo in the GetReading article though regarding the name of the hospital.   :(


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: didcotdean on October 05, 2014, 16:37:54
As I have mentioned before, I too am a survivor of that crash. Travelling in the first coach to stay upright and seated backwards my physical injuries were very minor, but it was not an experience that is easy to think about, even after this time.

All that week I had been on the next train (7:35 from Didcot). That day I happened to get to the station just a little bit earlier.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Oxonhutch on October 05, 2014, 18:44:40
I remember the morning well.  I was undertaking a business trip to America that day and was staying overnight at a hotel in London.  I now work in London and I walk pass this same hotel on my way back to Paddington for my evening commute.  At that time, the Heathrow Express had just started and the airlines had check-in desks at Paddington Station in the area that is now the shops ^ Yo Sushi! bar, M & S, etc. I checked my luggage in there and caught the HEX to Heathrow where some hours later I caught my flight to Chicago.

On arrival there after U.S. immigration, I was waiting in the baggage hall for my luggage when I heard my name being called over the Tanoy ^ never a good sign.  I made myself known and was told my bags had not made it to Chicago.  ^How?^, I protested. I had checked them in three hours before boarding at Paddington.

^Have you not heard about the train wreck?^, I was asked. ^What train wreck?^, I replied.

It was the days before mobile internet.  I had heard nothing at Heathrow and had to wait to get to my final destination before the full horror of the day made itself clear.

Apparently, I was on the last HEX ^ and possibly the very last service of any kind ^ that passed through Ladbroke Grove before the collision that morning.  My bags were on the following HEX and never left Paddington.

Every evening as I walk past The Leonard, I remember that day.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: BBM on October 05, 2014, 22:16:16
I also remember the morning well. I took the very last departure from TWY which made it through to PAD, passing Ladbroke Grove about 15-20 minutes before the crash. In those days I used to walk from PAD to Notting Hill Gate and as I turned from Leinster Terrace into the Bayswater Road I heard a very loud but distant bang which I remember I thought came from behind me, it certainly made me turn round, it must have echoed from the nearby buildings. A few minutes later I could see ahead of me a very tall plume of smoke rising into the clear sky. I thought it must be a major building fire in the Westbourne Park area, but about 20 minutes later I was routinely checking the uk.railway newsgroup and was amazed to read the first reports of the crash.

I've actually just managed to find that very thread on uk.railway: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.railway/ERTKcbtSDpk%5B1-25-false%5D (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.railway/ERTKcbtSDpk%5B1-25-false%5D)


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: PhilWakely on October 05, 2014, 22:28:30
I remember the day clearly. The wife and I had been on holiday in British Columbia and that was the day we flew home. Vancouver is 8 hours behind London, so we woke up to the news having had an early night in preparation for our flight home. Our son was at home in Exeter and was due to travel by train to London that day. All we knew was that there had been a crash involving an HST outside Paddington, so we were naturally a little concerned and got on the 'phone as quickly as possible. Thankfully his train was not the one affected (he actually travelled up to Waterloo).

Ironically, our son's bloodied face was the image broadcast around the world a few years later as he was on the train involved in the Upton Nervet incident.

Our thoughts today are with the families of those involved in the Ladbroke Grove crash.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: JayMac on October 05, 2019, 03:20:33
Today, 5th October 2019, marks the 20th anniversary of the Ladbroke Grove rail crash. Following this disaster there was a step change in safety management and regulation of the railways in the UK. Recommendations from the official inquiry into the disaster (https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=38) led directly to the setting up of the Rail Safety & Standards Board (RSSB) and the Rail Accident Investigation Branch (RAIB). Whilst the primary cause of the disaster was a signal passed at danger (SPAD) the inquiry found that there were numerous contributory factors including train protection, signal sighting, flank protection, signalman complacency, management and regulatory failings. It's possible that if just one of those contributory factors had been addressed the disaster may never have happened.

31 people lost their lives. One of the darkest days on the post-privatisation railways.

Are things better on the railways today? The statistics suggest they are. But, could complacency be setting in again?

From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-49666089):

Quote
Paddington rail disaster: Survivor fears safety 'could be slipping'

A Paddington rail disaster survivor has said he fears safety standards may be slipping 20 years after the crash.

Thirty-one people died when two trains collided almost head-on after a driver missed a red signal on 5 October 1999,

In 2018-19, 304 trains passed through red signals, a 10-year high, according to official data for England, Wales and Scotland.

"The risk now is that standards might drop," said Jonathan Duckworth, chair of the Paddington Survivors Group. He was one of 227 people hospitalised when his First Great Western train collided with another train at Ladbroke Grove, about two miles from its destination of Paddington, at a combined speed of about 130mph.

'Continually learning'

In the 10 years following 1999 the number of Signals Passed at Danger (Spads) more than halved, from 593 to 273. But the number has begun to creep up again and July saw 41 Spads, more than one a day, the highest number in a single calendar month for 12 years.

The UK has "one of the safest railway networks in Europe", rail minister Chris Heaton-Harris said. He added: "We are continually learning how to make our railways safer, that is the legacy of a terrible disaster such as this. "But disasters could happen any time. That is why one of my many jobs is to ensure we have safety hardwired into every decision that they make."

A 70-metre wall of fire engulfed the two trains as fuel caught alight following the collision at about 08:10 BST on a Tuesday morning 20 years ago.

"We went through a massive fireball. I could feel the heat coming through the windows," Mr Duckworth said. "I had no idea what was going on. I thought perhaps it was a bomb. We basically derailed and overturned, so our coach ended up on its side. There was a bit of a battle to get out. It's not easy to get out of an overturned carriage." When he got out Mr Duckworth saw "smoke billowing out from charred carriages" lying on their sides as police and rescuers swarmed over the wreckage to try to locate trapped survivors. It would take days to remove all the bodies from the wreckage.

The outcry that followed led to the biggest-ever safety reform of the country's rail network. A series of complex public inquires culminated in two reports by Lord Cullen. The inquiry found the crash was caused by the Thames Trains service travelling from Paddington passing through a red signal. But Lord Cullen concluded the crash was the culmination of "a catalogue of failures to act". He levelled severe criticism at Thames Trains for its "slack and less than adequate" safety culture. It was fined £2m in 2004. Railtrack, Network Rail's predecessor, was accused of a "lamentable failure" to introduce safe signalling systems in the entrance to Paddington station.

Paddington was supposed to be a watershed but a series of fatal rail crashes followed at Hatfield in 2000, at Selby in 2001 and at Potters Bar in 2002.

The Paddington Survivors Group, set up to help victims and bereaved families cope with trauma, campaigned to improve rail safety. Under pressure from the group, a train protection warning system that halted trains passing through red signals became industry standard. The group worked with the Office for Rail and Road and Network Rail to reorganise the industry in the wake of the crash.

Network Rail, which superseded Railtrack in 2002, was fined £4m in 2007 for health and safety breaches in the run-up to the Paddington crash, after years of campaigning by the survivors group.

In addition to July seeing the highest number of Spads for more than a decade, the past 12 months has seen 10 trains pass red signals and reach the "conflict point" - the position along the track at which a collision could theoretically take place. The average over the past five years has been between four and five. Concern over the the increase led the Rail Safety and Security Board (RSSB) to write to Network Rail and all train and freight operating companies.

Mark Phillips, RSSB chief executive, said the 20th anniversary of the disaster was "a timely reminder of what can go wrong if we don't keep our eyes on the ball. We need to look at current train protection technology and industry initiatives, and ask whether enough is being done," he added.

Mr Duckworth said: "The risk is now that there hasn't been a serious rail crash for 20 years, standards might drop and focus might change. The industry needs to keep recognising that safety is of great importance, because though these incidents don't happen anymore, when they do occur they are devastating."


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: grahame on October 05, 2019, 09:04:13

Are things better on the railways today? The statistics suggest they are. But, could complacency be setting in again?


That is an excellent pair of questions that need to be asked from time to time.

In 20 years, the number of train services run has grown.  Any increase in SPADs is unwelcome but has the number of journeys per SPAD also increased - which would be a positive stat.  And are the changes in SPAD numbers real, or the effect of changed reporting procedures and a continuing move from smaller signal boxes and manual systems where (perhaps) incidents weren't always reported to signalling centres which automatically log.

Don't get me wrong - one SPAD is one too many ... but we need to understand the stats.   And - delighted - that the current general safety record is so much better than the general safety record 20 years back.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 05, 2019, 09:14:19
Indeed, I remember it very well.  We need to be very careful about the SPAD statistics though.  I'm sure the majority were very minor, possibly a slight misjudgement in braking and passing a signal by a few yards, and trapped by the TPWS equipment well within the safety zone ahead of the signal.  I don't think we will know exact details of every case but don't forget it includes SPADS on non-passenger lines as well, e.g. in depots.

I'm not trying to make excuses, just trying to be a bit realistic.  It's not, and never will be a perfect world out there.

Quote
Number of signals passed at danger (SPADs) without authority on the mainline. Each SPAD is assigned a score between zero (no risk) and 28 (very high risk):

Figures for 2018/2019 for
Potentially severe (score >= 20): 16
Potentially significant (16 - 19): 65
No significant risk (0 - 15): 202
Unclassified: 21

For comparison with previous years: https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/statistics/health-and-safety/rail-safety/signals-passed-at-danger-spads-on-network-rail-controlled-infrastructure-table-525/


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 05, 2019, 10:11:01
I wonder why the number of ‘unclassified’ SPADs was so high last year (21)?


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: broadgage on October 05, 2019, 12:39:50
The absence of any fatal accidents* to passengers in any one single year might be due to good luck.
The lack of passenger fatalities* for so many years strongly suggests a great improvement in rail safety.

The increase in reported SPADs is certainly cause for concern, but I would urge not being unduly alarmed by this. A minor misjudgement in stopping at a signal, resulting in stopping a few meters beyond, is unlikely to have serious consequences, and in years gone by was probably not even reported.
And of course if a train stopped just beyond a semaphore signal, the signal could still be observed and the train re-started when it cleared. Cant do that with colour light signals which are now nearly universal.

Not all SPADS are dangerous, and some ARE potentially dangerous, but are true accidents with no one to blame. I was on a train, many years ago that passed a red signal. Relying on my imperfect memory the sequence of events was;

Large tree blocking the line, observed by off duty railman.
Signalman informed, relevant signals put back to danger.
Driver of train had just passed a green signal, and found the next signal at red. Emergency braking applied promptly.
Without any preliminary caution signal, it was not possible to stop by the red.
Red colour light signal passed at an estimated 25 MPH.
Train collided with tree, but speed was then down to walking speed.

So whom was to blame ? no one in my view, it was a true accident, fortunately without any serious consequences. Yet it was undoubtedly a signal passed at danger.


*Excluding suicides and trespassers, such tragedies are no more the fault of the railway than "head in gas oven" suicides were the fault of the gas board.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: eightonedee on October 05, 2019, 13:59:38
Ladbroke Grove was a particularly harrowing one, made worse by the lack of information about the extent of casualties in the immediate aftermath. There were reports of dozens of cars left at the station car park in Reading that evening. I was away at the time in Norfolk, and inevitably thoughts were of who among our friends and neighbours might be involved.

I am not sure though that it is fair to include the Selby/Great Heck accident in the list demonstrating the deficiencies in Network Rail's approach to safety. It was the most unfortunate set of coincidences that saw a vehicle crash onto the line, an express hit it and derail and to run into a fast freight on the opposing line, more akin to the Ufton Nervet crash. Incidentally, by tragic coincidence, the recent death of PC Andrew Harper was on the road that leads to the bridge that has replaced the crossing at Ufton.

I have also been on a train that ran past its stop point (I think not strictly a SPAD, as I think the signal in question is west of the station) when it ran past the end of the platform at Pangbourne. The driver was clearly very shaken. He walked back through the train telling the passengers that his train (a Turbo) failed to respond to the brakes in time. It was I believe in the autumn, so probably poor railhead conditions. We had to wait for him to be allowed to take the train back to the platform. There was no danger to anyone, but I guess the driver would have been disciplined as a result.

Shortly after, I heard a group of what were clearly railway employees (but not drivers) discussing SPADs, the consensus seeming to be that mostly it was simply driver inattention, and the tone was clearly not sympathetic to drivers. However we should remember that the drivers of the trains involved were (if I recall correctly) all among the fatalities in the spate of accidents around the turn of the century   


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: SandTEngineer on October 05, 2019, 14:09:14
This was posted elsewhere and I missed it originally: https://www.rssb.co.uk/Insights-and-News/Latest-Updates/Rail-safety-body-voices-concern-over-trains-passing-red-signals

Quote
July saw 41 trains pass red signals, the highest number in a single calendar month since October 2007.

In the last 12 months, 10 trains passed red signals and reached the ‘conflict point’, the position along the track at which a collision could theoretically take place. This is higher than the five-year average of between four and five, and the total for the last financial year 2018-9 which was seven. The risk from signal passed at danger (SPADs) has not been as high since September 2014.

Quote
In the last 20 years, the industry has reduced SPAD risk by more than 90%. It has been over 12 years since the last train accident involving fatalities, hence today Britain has one of the safest railway networks in Europe.

This is partly down to significant improvements in collaboration across the rail industry, and a shared commitment to monitor risk, as well as improved investigation processes which consider underlying causes.

.....and https://www.rssb.co.uk/-/media/Project/RSSB/Platform/Documents/Public/Public-content/Insight-and-News/mark-phillips-spad-letter-19-september-2019.pdf


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Adelante_CCT on October 06, 2019, 08:18:05
Remember this well, my father was on the HST, standing in the vestibule between coach A & B (I think) towards the rear of the train, luckily for him just some minor whiplash received from the incident. He got out the train and made his way towards Paddington via the tube where he worked in the Telesales office off Platform 1. On arrival they were surprised to see him and sent him straight back home (to Reading) in a taxi.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 06, 2019, 09:32:01
There was no danger to anyone, but I guess the driver would have been disciplined as a result.

That would depend on whether he followed the driving procedures for when encountering wheelslip.  If he did then there would have been nothing he could have done and so no disciplinary action is taken.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: grahame on October 17, 2019, 06:39:04
A long account from a passenger on the train published this morning here - in The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/17/ladbroke-grove-paddington-train-crash-inquiry)

Quote
On 5 October 1999, two trains collided at speed in west London, killing both drivers and 29 passengers. Barrister Greg Treverton-Jones, who survived the crash and worked on the harrowing inquiry, pieced together what went wrong

• Warning: this article contains graphic descriptions of injury and trauma

There was no warning and no screech of brakes – just a huge bang, and then we were crashing ...


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: didcotdean on October 17, 2019, 11:51:19
I guess everyone's experience was different; I didn't stay on the trackside for 20-30 minutes after the crash or go to the school. I followed a line of other people who had already got out of the train walking a little way down the line to an access ramp leading up to street level and the Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury's where the shop staff were already looking after people with cups of tea and cleaning & patching up minor cuts etc with supplies from their in-store pharmacy. The police arrived there after about 20 minutes, took name and addresses and told everyone that they were 'free to go', which since nearly everyone didn't know where they were was a bit of a problem.

I went out into the main road and found a bus stop which indicated a service to Victoria. Whilst waiting there someone came up to me to say it had been diverted because of the rail crash. When I told him I'd been in it he kindly invited me to his house, but I asked instead to show me where the buses were. I eventually got to Victoria, walked up to where I was working so they knew I was alive and went home. By train from Waterloo.


Title: Re: Ladbroke Grove (Paddington) train crash - 5 Oct 1999 - anniversaries, memories and publications
Post by: Incider on October 18, 2019, 22:07:31
There was no danger to anyone, but I guess the driver would have been disciplined as a result.

That would depend on whether he followed the driving procedures for when encountering wheelslip.  If he did then there would have been nothing he could have done and so no disciplinary action is taken.

Sorry for the pedantry, but wheelslip wouldn’t cause a SPAD or station overrun, but wheelslide might.



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