Great Western Coffee Shop

Just for info....
There's a notice gone up saying that the ticket office is going to be shut from this Tuesday (the 3rd) 'till the following Monday for a refurbishment.
Temporary offices will be along platform 2, probably as it was when they were flooded.

I overheard a guard tell a driver that Gateline Barriers are shortly to be installed at Truro.  Apparently, these will discourage scrotes, (whatever they are). As penalty fares are now in operation up to Truro, (in a down direction), it seems that fare dodging may become less prevalent in this part of Cornwall.

DFT have specified that the barriers must be operational by 01/01/11.

Interesting. I use Truro for the Maritime line and regularly see people walking off the platforms onto the level crossing and arriving (with luggage) and leaving via the car park, to the back of the East-bound platform. Will all this lot be fenced off or will they just add restrictive signage?

The only access to/from the platforms will be either through the ticket hall on the westbound side or through a gate/barrier located somewhere on the back of the eastbound platform from the car park. The ramps at the east end of both platforms and the entire length of the old platform 4 will be fenced off and the buffet will have the roadside door locked out of use.

For the able bodied the footbridges will still be there (rumour that one will eventually replaced with lifts fitted)

I believe work starts in September

I've expressed my views on this in another thread some time ago. Bad move which will alienate many people. Platform three should be separately gated.

As an industry outsider, I'm not sure who pays for these barriers/fences/gates and so on. Can someone shed some light please?

I came to the conclusion long ago that  barriers are a waste of time, effort and money. All they do is annoy honest passengers and have NO deterrent effect on fare dodgers.

Yesterday I went through a barrier line 6 times, (four at Bath Spa, two at Swindon) between 1500 and 2030 - EVERYTIME they were unmanned and locked open !

Absolutely pointless !

The problem I always think about reliance on barriers is that they make people have a ticket but not necessarily a valid ticket.  A fare evader could buy the cheapest singles for their start and finish stations just to get through the barriers.

I believe there should be effective and visible on-train ticket checks, as this is the only way of making sure someone has a valid ticket.

My return home from BRI to NLS this afternoon included a full ticket check - with the Guard accompanied by a BTP constable (rather than a PCSO). Result: not the slightest squeak of dissent, from any passenger!  ;) :D ;D

Bet that gave the residents of Worle a shock!!!!  :D

I don't who's paying but I dare say it won't be cheap...and all a waste if there's no money left to staff it properly. As Moonrakerz says "pointless"

Whoever says barriers are ineffective is talking crap! when barriers are installed at stations then it is the surrounding stations that start selling more tickets, as for Truro, it wont matter if people are buying tickets to the next stop as thats where most of them are going anyway, there are to be two barriers on the up platform from the car park and the main gateline will be in the booking hall, there are massive problems with ticketless travel in and out of Truro and maybe if some of the Falmouth and Redruth people actually bothered to buy their tickets before boarding then the barriers wouldnt be needed, they know that the guard can't get through the train, personally I cannot wait to see them go in and think it is long overdue! and I think most of the season ticket holders will agree as they are fed up with all the one off travellers going for free whilst they pay through the nose!

Very true. How many people would chance it and not buy tickets at Nailsea if there weren't any barriers at Temple Meads and Bath Spa in the hope of not paying. I would guess loads would.

Though it would help if they are manned more frequently, especially in the evenings. 

Ticket barriers will only ever be effective if we have a London Underground system where the whole network is closed off from ticketless travel.

The fact that I could very easily keep a low profile on an HST tomorrow and get a free ride to Paddington due to the fact that entrance to most of the mainline platforms at paddington can be exited without a ticket  is beyond belief!

Surely they only annoy honest passengers when they're actually in use, doing what they're designed to do...? Or do you make a point of being annoyed by them even when they're not in your way? ;)

On a more serious note though, although they certainly aren't a perfect solution (and even if the entire system was barriered with no on-board ticket checks there's still the possibility for fraud by "dumb-belling" and buying a cheap single for each end of your journey) they are certainly better than all stations being open. Before barriers at Swansea, Bridgend and Neath it was painfully obvious that many of the locals used HST services as their free ride very frequently, due to lax on-board ticket checks*. Now that's much, much less common.

*Has anyone else noticed that Swansea guards seem to come in two distinct species? There's the ones who never emerge from coach A/F (depending on direction of travel) come hell or high water and certainly don't bother with any ticket checks, and then many others who are constantly on the go checking tickets after every stop and generally giving a bit of a master-class in how it should be done!

Just a couple of points from me:

1. Ticket barriers are brilliant - when they work - for fare-paying passengers.  The problem is, they do tend to reject perfectly valid, pristine condition, tickets, purchased only minutes previously! ::)  That's why many 'honest passengers' get a bit peeved, at having their tickets spat back at them and being told to 'Seek assistance' (necessitating reversing into the commuter scrum) so often!

2. Ticket barriers are supposed to be barriers - not locked open, while two members of FGW staff stand and chat to each other over them, giving a grudging nod to any passenger who is determined enough to actually wave their ticket at them while passing through ...

 ::)

I was speaking to a member of staff, and they stated that there plans for ticket barriers at St. Austell is this true?

I agree with Chris that ticket barriers are good when they work, and that they are not locked open.

Surprisingly, they "annoy" me when they are not "doing what they're designed to do".

After being told by the Duty Manager at Salisbury, and twice in writing by her employers, what an awful problem fare dodging is, as justification for not letting me help my daughter with her luggage - it does get "up my nose" somewhat to see the very expensive devices they have installed to counter this problem just not being used.  ???

Do the TOCs really know how much fare dodging there actually is ? How do they know/calculate/guess a figure ? Has anyone does a Cost Benefit Analysis of installing the barriers - which still need to be manned - OR, once they are installed does it beome "cheaper" for the station management to leave them open and not pay someone to man them ?
It strikes me to be rather like my local council when they claim to recycle 34.98% of household rubbish - how to they arrive at this figure ?

They use a weighbirdge at the refuse centre to measure the weight of rubbish and recycling as it comes in on the trucks and give the figures to someone who divides one number by another and sees that their calculator says 34.89 and neglects to think about rounding it to 35%.

St Austell isn't Planned, next is Penzance, this was going to be done (with Truro) in 2008 but was shelved due to the credit crunch, Truro is getting done partly due to staff constantly complaining about the amount of ticketless travel to/from the Falmouth branch, Penzance is still currently shelved though.

So will pax from the Car park, with heavy luggage be forced to use the bridges or not, I'm confused.

as my post states, there will be 2 barriers on the "up" side and the main gateline will be in the ticket office!

Surprised that the Falmouth line still presents revenue problems. Whenever I have used it the 153 unit has a guard and a ticket checker/seller.
The other day at Truro, awaiting the Padd bound 125, a couple who had arrived via the crossing ramp, enquired of the despatcher if it would be OK to upgrade to first on the train..."probably" was his useful response (equally useful was his response to "is first class at this end?"..."probably!"...the monitor didn't help either, just announced that it was an 8 coach train...wow)

Anyway there was no ticket check at the front end until after Taunton. They were travelling to Padd though.

So i take it the answer is yes. Shame. P3 should be separately gated. Does this work include resurfacing the footpath from the car park around the BTP office and into the Ticket Office?

What are you on about! READ THE POST! if there are two gates on the up side then they are from the car park! the car park is on the up side!!!!!

Not really sure that's fair. Not everyone knows which is the up side and which is the down - the people of Truro (who might just bump into this thread) would certainly understand car park side, whereas up side would mean absolutely nothing to them, and, I suspect, a good many of the people posting here, come to that.

and to clarify "up" is always towards London, even where the geography makes it feel intuitively wrong (not a problem in this part of the world, but maybe more so if you live anywhere north of London).

Isnt the up terminology due to oxbridge going up to london

As some one who grew up in scouseland and spent most time in scotland/midlands - what would it take t0 get rid of this.

Maybe by July I won't care as much - but its bloody annoying

T'other way round - you're thinking about going "up" to Oxbridge and going "down" to London.

The rational alternative is "northbound" etc.

I'm maybe wrong, but I seem to recall an oddity where the GW and Mid ran parallel (with consequent races) from Cheltenham to Gloucester. One Southbound was up and one down.

Your right of course, in York, you know you're talking to a seasoned railway employee in the pub when they talk about taking the train UP to Doncaster. ;D

most people may not know, but railcornwall does!

If the most guards did their job properly and more were used on busy sections this wouldnt be happening!

What? People not knowing their up from their down?  ;D

Here's an interesting one:

Exeter St Davids platform 1/3

Trains can depart to London in two directions, so which is up/down?  :P

Only if their couplings break...

Now, DM, the Up Side at Exeter St Davids is the direction towards Taunton (beimg a GW station...).

Of course, the Up Waterloo (as indicated on the signal describers) is the direction towards Central and Honiton.

As for Truro, up - to London, down - to Penzance (ie, away from London)

Good to hear there will be ticket gates on the Up Side at Truro.

Unless your up the welsh valleys of course ;)

Just to throw a spanner into the works, how would this work if it is possible to go either way to reach London?  ???

I'm thinking of the West Coastway Line between Southampton and Havant.  If you head towards Southampton, you can go on the South Western Main Line to London.  Towards Havant and you can use the Portsmouth District Line.  ;D :D

see reply 33 above RE exeter SD as the waterloo trains go one way and paddingtn trains the other way

It is near impossible to get everyone getting on in west cornwall, particularly on HST's with the SDO, same with the Falmouth branch, unfortunately it is most of the locals who are to blame for this with their persistence in not buying tickets from places such as Camborne and Redruth!

Changes of direction at St Denys and Cosham. Travelling east you leave the Up main at St Denys Jn onto the 'down Netley' as far as Fareham East Jn, [1] then join the 'down Portsmouth' as far as Cosham Jn. From Cosham Jn you take the Up spur towards Farlington and join the Up main towards Havant, (or the Up Brighton if going along the coast).

But 'West Coastway' is a term reserved for SN timetables...  :o

[1] Just for amusement, Fareham East Jn is at the North end of the station, and Fareham West Jn is at the South end. Anyone know the reason?

Paul

To get really off topic .............

The "Western" end of the Panama Canal is the one that ships heading West enter the canal by..... and vice versa !     

Not necessarily. As touched on previously by Caliwag...

On the old Midland Railway, "Up" was towards Derby.  This can still be found on the (formerly Midland), Charfield line from Westerleigh Junction (Yate area), where the northbound line towards Cheltenham and Brum is the "Up" although it diverges away from the main Badminton line to London.

UP is not always towards London, the Old Great Central  London extension (north of Alyesbury) was UP to Manchester.

Work starts on 29th September installing the gates, to commence operation in Jan

Crumbs...! I'd better start buying tickets then...!! ;) ::) :P ;D :-X :o *

* = This of course was a joke... I always buy my tickets before travel!

sooner than that..
Poster up in the ticket hall today saying they would be operational by November

The DFT funding was dependent on it being operational BY jan.

I see work is now underway installing the gateline at Truro!

Good...How are they dealing with people walking off the platforms at the crossing and off the Eastbound platform (lets not get into the up/down game) onto the car park?

i've often been lazy in the past and jumped off the up platform down to the car park, are they going to do anything to prevent this?

See above, barriers are going to be installed between the up platform and the car park.

What are the alternatives:

More robust on Train ticket checks - they need more staff to police a 7-car HST with frequent stops in Cornwall - probably one per coach on the busiest trains - but that'll put the costs up which we will all have to pay in higher fares.

The Penalty Fare deterrent - the current arrangement where someone has to weigh up the chances of being caught without a ticket and having to pay a fortune or purchase a ticket before boarding to avoid this.  Its a bit like speeding on motorways - most motorists take the chance but there is a risk that they might be caught by an un-marked police car, or in pre-Top Gear days by a hidden speed camera.

Do as the buses/ferries/airlines do - check everyone's ticket whilst boarding the train (AMTRAK and VIA Rail do this on their long distance services) but thats why buses are soooo slow, and why you have to arrive at the airport ages before the plane takes off - do we want our railways to be like that?

Compared to these options, barriers seem the best option to me. I can remember the 1970s when station staff always used to collect tickets from arriving passengers at every staffed station. No one complained about the extra seconds of delay then and I bet fare evasion was non-existent.



     

Came through on wednesday and there was something going on in the Ticket Office - wonder if there will be barbed wire at smoking corner on platform 1.

Its either work on the barriers, or they are repairing the roof which has a tendancy to leak when there is heavy rain!

Penzance used to do this for boarding HST's on platform 4.

St Ives barriers the platform in Summer and has extra Conductors.

The barriers in Truro will probably eliminate a lot of fare dodging as it's one of the biggest pickup/drop points in Cornwall - Plymouth & Exeter are barriered anyway.

I've seen HST TM's check tickets -it can be done but rarely is - I frequently travel down from Newton Abbot and I can't remember an HST ticket check.

sorry dont think you understood what i meant if when you get off the train rather than walk to the end of the platform it is possible to make a short jump down to the car park the whole length of the platform, they wont put gates the whole way along there as its not a conventional exit jumping down about a couple of feet,

To be fenced off as far as I know..

Hopefully to help clarify this particular point - may I offer this picture?

(http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/2603/015or.jpg) (http://img829.imageshack.us/i/015or.jpg/)

The length of the old platform (to the right of Platform 3 in my photo) currently involves a short jump down into the car park.  I know: I did it, on my Cornwall Branch Line Bash with Ollie, earlier this year!

If ticket barriers are to be installed at Truro, the rest of that old platform will indeed have to be fenced in.

And for further clarity:

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/truro.jpg)

The whole length of the old no.4 platform will be fenced off along with the slopes at the east end. A ticket gate and a ticket machine will be installed on platform 3 (eastbound) at the east end.

Will the fence be electrified  ::)

I hope they take advice about the height of fencing required. Within a few months of gating Fareham, SWT had to pay again to have the fencing seriously altered, as a fair number of ticketless pax were just vaulting over it. Similar situation to Truro to a certain extent, although there was a normal fence already, the car park facing side of the down platform is actually a disused platform. 

In the vicinity of the new footbridge people were then climbing the higher fence using the DDA handrails as a foothold - presumably not what the designers put them there for...

Paul

Passed through Truro today and there's fencing partly blocking access to the old platform 4 from the car park.
 (http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8973/trurofencing.jpg) (http://img146.imageshack.us/i/trurofencing.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

That's just temporary, to fence off the contractors compound.

Are you sure - the contractors compound is at the other end of the platfrom - these fences are by the level crossing.

Yep quite sure. A company call Strategic are the main contractors and they have the containers/storage in the photo, along with their cars, in what used to be the old post office loading bay at the level crossing end. This is what has been fenced off along with the concrete base of the old station managers offices (to the right, behind the bridge) which itself will be removed to make way for new ramped access to the platform.

That is definitely temporary fence as the above poster has established. I don't think anyone is stupid enough to put event fencing there and expect it to do the job of permanent fencing.

Spoke to a Dispatcher today - some tasteful fencing on the way along with 8 more staff !!!

just seen the following on the falmouth packet website:

I have to say I never found passing through the station a problem. The ticket office is well staffed, with loads of up to date timetables and brochures and the staff friendly. I can only assume this relates to the installation of barriers, which will annoy some, but give better rev. protection. What else can the article mean?

The barrier scheme is part of a different project that was funded by DFT, the improvements will include a rebuilt ticket office, full repaint etc..... work is well advanced with installing the gates now.

This is essentially the Public Transport Hub proposal of a few years ago re-hashed and updated. The difficulty with the site being the limited forecourt space to actually do anything worthwhile with whilst keeping the exisiting stakeholders happy.

It'll be interesting to see whats on offer.

As for the barriers, my views on this issue are well known here.

Further info on Truro station revamp:
http://www.southwestbusiness.co.uk/environmental/Work-begins-major-railway-station-revamp/article-2982367-detail/article.html

There is a 360 degree view of Truro station on this site:
http://www.urban75.org/vista/truro.html

There is a lot more about this in the West Briton newspaper this week but I cannot find a link to it.

Thanks, FarWestJohn!  I've found a link, from the West Briton (http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/news/Work-begins-major-railway-station-revamp/article-2982367-detail/article.html) (several local newspapers use the 'thisiscornwall' site for their online versions):

A slight correction to this.. the Ticket Office is not being touched in any of the plans. The booking hall (public side) is being done as the installation of the barriers has meant that some walls have been taken out and the floor dug up. The poor souls, both staff and public, have had to put up with pneumatic drills and sledgehammers going at it only 10 - 15 feet away from the ticket windows, for the last couple of weeks. My contact in there says there is definitely no plans for any work in their office.

A new Ticket machine has appeared on the eastbound platform, but doesn't appear to be working yet

yeah, your obviously quite happy to subsidise the free loaders from West Cornwall!

If other rail companies abroad can manage without barriers, I frankly find it more than annoying that ATOC cannot find a way using more efficient enforcement measures to avoid their use. 

Anyway We'll disagree on this.

Yes but in europe they have high penalty fares.  You have to stamp your own ticket before you get on the train in France.  The last ticket I had for that country quoted a minimum fare of 75 euros on train.  Now either you have a system with no barriers and very high penalty fares or you have barriers.  There seems to be reluctance in this country to go for high penalty fares so I dont see what else you can have apart from Barriers.

And dont say make sure everyone has a ticket because that is simply not possible at peak times.

The annoying people that use a credit card for a ^1.50 fare help to ensure the guard cant get all the tickets done!

And there's the annoying guard who doesn't have change for ^10, forcing me to use my debit card for a ^1.50 fare. Happened t'other day to me.

ah the annoying passenger that only has a ^10 for a ^1.50 fare  ;D

Try that on a bus!!

In my experience, my rather apologetically offering a handful of silver coins (not coppers!) for a ^3.60 fare has been met with expressions of joy from the train staff - 'thanks, mate, I was completely out of 50p's!'

It seems that this thread has gone way off topic. I was wondering if the mods could split off the subject of bristol bus fares into the right place
cheers

Done! See http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=8138.0 ;)

Chris.  :D

manual ticket checking should now be in operation with the gates to go live on the 17th.

Was great yesterday with all the usual teenage 'freeloading' traffic nearly missing the train becaus e they were forsed to but a ticket!  ;D

:D :D :D

Gates in operation today.

A sad week for Cornwall  :-[

For real...?! ???

It certainly was a sad week for the majority of the travelling Cornish public who have travelled for free for the past 30 years! and a very good week for the genuine fare payers and the staff!

It's been very satisfying to see revenue tightened at Truro. Despite the odd evader, I have to say that most of the passengers are carrying tickets.
I just hope the people desperate not to pay dont attempt to use the cattle grids alongside the platform ramps, particularly if the level-crossing barriers are down for another train.

Can't please everyone apparently..

http://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/8820457.Passengers_cry_foul_over_new_Truro_train_station_barriers/  (http://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/8820457.Passengers_cry_foul_over_new_Truro_train_station_barriers/)

"Conservative MP says 'please vote for me, we're dead lovely, honest' after FGW implements DFT-required scheme".

next time my gran flys from gatwick i'll ask if i can see her onto the plane....................

Looks like someone forgot to proof read the internet copy:

'The installation of ticket barriers at Truro train station was aimed at cracking down on ^fare dodgers^ but all users have welcomed the changes.'

Seems they missed a word out!

My emphasis in bold.

"A number of passengers, however, have complained that they have not been able to see their friends or relatives safely onto their train"

 If these people are seeing 'friends or relatives' onto their train how are they passengers????

They soon become passengers when they get on the train to 'see them off' and then end up locked on and overcarried!1  ;D

Whats the special platform pass then - have platform tickets returned but nobody's told us?

Nope...This "special pass" doesn't exist and platform tickets have not made any come back. 

And so it goes...
http://www.thisisthewestcountry.co.uk/news/cornwall_news/8828463.Police_CCTV_appeal_over_Truro_station_assault/?ref=rss

Well, gave in and used Truro this afternoon.

Not impressed, the platform ticket has to be reintroduced so people can meet and greet and say their farewells, one elderly greeter was quite distressed by not being allowed on the platform to meet an equally elderly pax from the London service. Feel a little sad for the staff having to implement the barriers really.

Doesn't do the PR much good either.

The amount of people "saying farewell" had become a real issue, making despatching the train a safety problem. People carried to the next station after being 'locked-on', non-travellers running alongside the train, hugging etc, through the open windows causing fears of being snagged on handles and generally blocking the vision of the crew being able to see the despatcher and/or the signal and causing distractions. It also stops the 'late runners' that are inevitable causes of the doors on catches that so often lead to more delays or 'incidents' for train crew.

None of that would be unique to Truro. So hardly a valid reason to prevent access to the platform for those wishing to help friends or relatives onto a train. A quick word from the gateline staff to say, "Please don't board the train yourself," should suffice.

Also easy enough for a despatcher/TM to shout "STAND BACK" to anyone too close to the train.

i use falmouth branchline to truro daily from Penryn, and i'd say 3 days out of 5 on my service i use, the guard/ TM or whatever cant get round the whole train leaving large numbers arriving at truro with no ticket to get through the barrier,

Regarding people needing help, how do these people manage at the other end of the journey? Most major destinations have the same set-up, you cant just stroll onto the platform to meet someone.?? There's also security and of course revenue. I'm sure we would all be shocked to be told how much was slipping through the net before barriers. Or is this just because its Cornwall and we've become complacent and dont like change??

As for the falmouth issue, I am sure the guard does the best he/she can!! I have seen them issuing them on the platform on arrival, which is no mean feat bearing in mind the tight 'turn-around' they have.

I can only really speak for Bristol TM. The gateline staff there are usually happy to let people through to see off or meet friends or relatives. Having briefly worked for FGW (agency temp) in the booking hall area as additional Customer Service staff, I can vouch for the discretion shown by the majority of gateline staffers. Common sense is applied.

Many reasons were given - a common one at the time was to allow Solo and Electron card holders access to the ATMs in the subway as back then the booking office did not accept them. Yes, there's a risk that the reason given for access to the station maybe spurious, but it's wrong to assume everyone is a fair dodging scrote. I don't think we want to see a situation where 'rail-side' becomes totally off limits to non-passengers. Let's not forget that TOCs 'welcome rail enthusiasts' onto their stations (although even that can be problematical - I have personal experience!) Hardly fair to allow them access and not the odd person wishing to help granny or see off the wife/girlfriend/secret lover!

At a major station like Paddington it is not necessary for people to meet and help relatives. Network Rail provide staff and electric buggies to help the elderly and infirm. All that is needed for this on an incoming service is a call placed by the Train Manager.

Or book ahead...

Easy enough to shout, yes.

However, whether or not the offending individual will (a) hear, (b) listen or (c) take any notice is not at all certain from personal experience.

the meeting arguement at Truro holds no water i'm afraid, there are now additional customer assist staff there. Bristol gateline just let anyone through, thats evident by the amount of people I get on the train from there with no ticket just saying "the man let me through", so to say that people who are let through don't get on trains is tripe.

Also, what difference does it make saying goodbye at the barrier or at the train? or meeting them at the barrier or off the train? just look at the chaos at exeter st davids when all of the people who were let through to meet people come back through at the same time as the other 300 people who have just got off the train!

Then the next, louder, shout is "GET THE F*** AWAY FROM THE TRAIN!"  ;)

Meet and Despatch are part of the experience, it is simply polite and civilised. Reintroduce platform tickets if necessary.

so the scrote will just buy a platform ticket to get through the barriers to get on the train.

i travelled today with my partner and our baby in pushchair, Penryn to Truro,
We were both on the same ticker, so the gateline staffhad to let me out at the show of my ticket when i arrived at truro, when i returned to Truro later on in the day the Gateline attendant (polite friendly male) opened the gate before i showed my ticket and said "dont worry i remember you from earlier" and let me through.
that to me is great customer service, remembering faces considering the large amount of passengers who he must see each day!

Thanks for posting that very encouraging example of FGW staff and their ability to provide excellent customer service, richwarwicker.  :)

I was at St Erth couple of years ago and before boarding the train emptied out my pockets of used tickets - was then gripped and couldn't find my rail card - sheepishly told TM I must have binned it at St Erth - incredibly she believed me - hopped of at Redruth and asked dispatcher to phone St Erth and ask if it would be possible to look for the rail card.

Three weeks later I was at St Erth and the Lady Station Manager presented me with my rail card - she not only emptied a rubbish bin to find it but remembered who I was - fantastic.

Recently on St Ives branch I queried a fare - several days later I met the same Conductor who had done some digging and agreed with me.

Very often the Conductors ask me where I off to and as I'm a bird watcher if there's anything of interest they can point out to other travellers.

Don't get that on buses.....

   

There are some ... fantastic ... front line staff with FGW.   I'm not supposed to name names / identify staff here (almost wish I could) but I can pick out a couple particularly - she'll know who she is if I say "last December - Santa Special"; made the word special.

I suspect that "don't get that on the buses" was in jest.  Actually, our town gave a civil reward to the regular driver of the town bus last year.  Really looks after people on his half-hourly round trip all day, every day.   We don't say "Thank you" enough to such gems.

I agree with Graham... There are some superb members of Staff with FGW. Some of the Customer Hosts remember how I like my Tea/Coffee and will even serve me at the Buffet without the need to show my ticket... :-X

I'm also known on first name terms to some of the Guards/TM's who know which railcard I have and where i'm going.

Buses equally as good I find, we have a few friendly drivers on the 267 & 234. There is another driver on a Wiltshire Service that I won't detail as I know it's breaking the rules, who lets me use my Bus Pass a little before 9AM for being so polite and a regular user... ;)

I've also recently experienced the Spanish Railways recently, my train into Alicante should have arrived at 19:30.But it was over an hour late due to a trackside problem. My connection onto Lorca was at 20:39 and I found the Train Manager and showed him my ticket to Lorca and asked if I would make the train. He phone through to Alicante and ensured that the train would wait for me at Alicante, As it turned out I arrived at 20:42 and the Lorca train arrived behind the train was on and had to do a Locomotive change, so it didn't need to wait for me anyway. And despite leaving 15 minutes late, we arrived at Lorca 2 minutes early ;D

Pity I can't say such positive comments about my flight back home with Ryanair ::) :o :-X :-\

I know this is only a rumour going round, and I for one don't like it, appears somebody travelled from Lostwithiel to Truro, and on arrival at Truro's Barrier got themself a ^20 Pently Fare.

Anyone Know more?

I don't know if it's true - first I heard of it, but if it's true they will get the penalty fare cancelled anyway.

For those who aren't aware according to NRE Lostwithiel is unstaffed, no TVM's and is not a penalty fare station.

indeed it is definitely unstaffed, no buildings or anything on the platform from memory, i imagine the above mentioned person actually received a UPFN

Surely this is a weakness in the penalty fare scheme in this area.  Anyone, if challenged at the barrier, could say they boarded at Lostwithiel.  Would the revenue lost cover the cost of a Permit to Travel machine?

the RP team quite often do blocks at the few unstaffed stations, then also cover the barriered stations, then when someone arrives at the barriered station claiming they have come from the unstaffed station they are sold a ticket then dealt with by way of an MG11.

What happens if someone has no money to pay for a ticket.  Can they not receive a penalty fare then ?

No - but it can be forwarded to prosecutions - who can then choose whether to to take it to court or not.

The vast majority of passengers are decent fare paying folk. There will always be an element of fare dodgers though.

There has been an instance of desperate people at Truro getting off an up train and walking down the crossing guards at the East end of the station platform, onto the level crossing deck and vaulting the barriers infront of the train. One hopes that a down train isn't running in at linespeed one day. :o

I believe BTP have caught one or two of them aswell.

Yes: BTP officers based at Truro do seem to be providing excellent value for money: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=8318.msg85575#msg85575  ;) :D ;D

Well their office does overlook the level crossing........................

So when is the refurbishment going to start, all I've seen so far is the de-cobbling of the forecourt. Are their any publicly available plans?

Allegedly no1...starting by the end of the month...
allegedly no2...the partial removal of the cobbles is only temporary they're going to be put back as part of the works!!

The new departure boards are going up on the platforms today.

... would have thought Platform 2 and 3 should have had at least two scrolling displays, probably three to provide information, much inferior to the old screens unfortunately.

So what else is to be done as part of the work at the station?

The old toilet block on platform 3 are now being worked on to bring them back into use.

They may be straining to do a good job on that - but if they do, they'll be flushed with success.  :P

Oh joy. Some cr*p puns (almost literally). It's been a while....  ::)

 ;D

Noted that access to Pumpkin from the Street was back in service today.

but the platform side was locked!

And when will railcornwall get over the fact that the gates at Truro are here to stay! maybe if certain people from Perranwell didnt pay by card for ^1.50 then the guard would get thro' the train on time  ;)

Nothing will change my view that they are brutal and dehumanising, the sight of an elderly passenger in tears when their relative was not permitted on the platform to see them off convinced me of that. No heavy handed actions of TOCs or DFT will change my view. Platforms are public spaces and as such should be open. How TOCs handle the issue of fare dodging ON BOARD should not be connected.

As for the CC argument. If technology had been updated then cards would be faster than cash.

That's a staff issue and not the fault of the barriers.


Platforms are on private property to which the public have access at the (most often implied) invitation of the TOC/NR.

I hope that's not a permanent move. 

Without doubt the the gateline has been a godsend.
Not only has it increased revenue and cut down fare evasion particularly from RED and SAU it has helped something all passengers hate - delays..  Now the platforms are clear from people that aren't travelling the delay minutes accrued from time standing in station have all but disappeared.  There have also been NO incidents due to people running along side the train, leaning on a moving train. Not to mention people being locked on with no intention of travelling. 
Also as a result the level of customer service has increased, particularly for the elderly who now get intercepted at the barriers and then helped over the stairs.
Let's not also forget what this has done for the local economy - 8 New posts created - not many companies are in that position at the mo.

Having the gates at truro or any other station not only helps ticketless travel but also helps maintain a station where it is free from drug users and anti social behaviour. As for this about not seeing people onto the train does it really matter, as has been pointed out you wouldnt turn up at the airport and expect to check in with the people you are seeing off.

Gates only help prevent anti social behaviour to an extent.  Most, although agreed not all, happens in the late evenings when ticket gates are invariably not in use.

Truro (and the rest of the west Cornwall area) now has BTP presence Weds - Sat until midnight. 

The only problem with Truro gateline is that the operational hours are too short, for example the gates open at 1745 on a Saturday! should be at least 2100 on friday/saturday nights.

How many staff do they have to work the gateline?

Not enough, apparently?  :-\

3 of the gateline staff were assualted this week whilst on duty.  Not sure on details.

Hmm. Be assured, vacmanfan, that as soon as I receive any details from BTP, they will be published here. >:(

I dont think they will issue an appeal, as the assailant was arrested at the scene.

Oh.  One assailant assaulted three members of staff on the gateline in the same incident, then?  :o

Yep!

Scaffolding now in place under the canopy of platform 2 (Westbound). The entire canopy is being replaced.

Work has also started on Platform 2 toilet improvements.

Out of curiosity, on the Westbound platform, between the Gents and the start of the footbridge flight of steps, there is a bricked up opening, which looks as though it might have been a newspaper stall. Can anyone shed any light on that please? Seems an odd place given that a small cluster of buyers would seriously create a bottle-neck at base of stairs. Jim

it was only bricked up about 5 years ago, it was just a side gate.

Back in the late 1950's early 1960's there was a newspaper stand in that area. I remember it well as it was where I bought my NME before going to School having travelled from St. Austell

There was a set of gates there in later years and it was used by the Post Office to offload from the mail train to their vans. It was bricked up after the mail train stopped running.
Edited to add....
 Also for the newspapers when that service ran.

FYI - when the actual construction work on the toilets starts next week only the disabled toilet on P2 will be available as the toilets recently installed on P3 have a drainage issue and cannot be used yet.
Will make for an interesting 10 or so weeks...

As of next week, the westbound footbridge will be out of use for 3-4 weeks

Thanks for the answers to the bricked up 'hole'.

I think the Truro Gateline Staff are fantastic!!!!

From the West Briton (http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Trolleys-station-Truro/story-15859090-detail/story.html):

Is there really so little news in Cornwall that this sort of sh!t gets put in the paper!

Absolutely nothing to do with 'elf n safety. HSE wouldn't give a flying f too hoots whether FGW provided trolleys or not.

FGW's bean counters and insurers might though...

How many hoots?  :P

Genuinely cannot remember the last time I ever used a luggage trolley at a station, or an airport for that matter. In fact, I was so oblivious that before reading this article I had no idea that they even generally existed at stations anymore...

They're something of an anachronism, now that nearly everyone has wheeled suitcases.  Even at Southampton, where people often show up for cruises laden down with more than typical quantities of luggage, it is quite rare to see the 'coin op' trolleys in use.

Having said that, on the odd occasions that they are used there doesn't seem to be any problem with taking them through the wide aisle gate...   

Paul

It is an absolute impossibility that "no staff are around" when the gates are in operation.  It is a legal requirement that at least one person is available during operational hours.  Did this passenger ask for a trolley?

I believe the reason they are located in the booking office is because of the narrow platform on the down side.   

Coin operated trolleys are scheduled to be installed very soon.

To be honest, if you need a luggage trolley you've brought too much luggage!

You got me.  ::)

Two. 2. Deux. Dos. Zwei. II.

The same number as the fingers I'm metaphorically sticking up to you, TJ.  ;D

Although Truro station (platforms 1-3) remains in good condition, the former yard could do with some serious redevelopment, even a wooden fence behind the 'up' platform would remove the 'eyesore' that is the yard. As TOC's love portraying their smart clean image, have a word with Network Rail and get something done, or at least get the weeds cut down :-[

 Keep your eyes peeled as something may happen to the yard soon!

Granite floor in the ticket hall has been dug up and all the ceiling tiles have been taken down overnight - ticket office still open to the public

 "Keep your eyes peeled as something may happen to the yard soon!"
 The Tesco container's have been rumbling around for years now...... no secret ;)

Flooring in booking hall grouted and completed.. Now 3 different types of floor tile in there! Area by ticket windows not yet re-carpeted.

Disabled toilets on P3 completed but an issue with drainage means they will not be in operation for the near future.

#cockup

Also, FYI, delay minutes for the west Cornwall region have been slashed considerably in the recent year.  This is mainly due to the restricted access to the platform at Truro, allowing them to dispatch the train without dozens of 'well-wishers' seeing people off delaying the dispatch process.  Proof it does work.

New canopy on P2 complete, what a difference it makes...

...shame the new paint is so patchy, some bits done, some not

http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/About-Us/Media-centre/Transport-Minister-praises-improvements-to-rail-network-in-Cornwall

New canopy certainly does look nice, the difference compared with platform 3 at the moment is remarkable.

Footbridge isn't far off completion - New treads going down. Won't be long before the East end is closed.

Thanks Vacmanfan, you are great!!!

It would appear we have a vacmanfan fan!  ;D

Thanks Slippy... Although sarcasm is the lowest form of wit! ;)

Whilst I'm here - New toilets on P2 are done!
Work will now start on disabled and new mess room plus east end bridge.

Everyone who is a realist is a fan of the elusive vacman.......

I'm not

From the West Briton (http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Legal-way-platform-tickets/story-16948454-detail/story.html):

I cannot speak for Truro, but the gate staff at Swindon are always polite when I make such a request and sometimes offer unprompted.  However I have only ever asked on a quiet Sunday afternoon.

What? Can we see statistics from stations that don't have a gate line where trains are suffering from untimely departures cause by people saying goodbye to loved ones?

Does this sort of thing cause a delay? (note: the tender moment is rail side):

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/britm.jpg)

Being forced to say your goodbyes before the gate line is probably worse as folk may miss their train or end up rushing for it. If loved ones are with you on the platform, waiting for the train to arrive, there's little chance of that happening.

Come on FGW, where's your romance? Waving goodbye to someone on a departing train is heart warming to do or see. It's a scene that has endured since the dawn of passenger railways and to use the excuse of 'timely departure' is just pathetic. Just one more instance of a lack of empathy toward customers by a TOC.

Oh and what about Granny? How do you help her with her luggage from outside a gate line?

No, but it was noon and sunny when they began to say goodbye. The trains came and went regardless.

I think that is more the point. With fewer station staff about helping relatives with luggage is a real issue. However I've not had a problem when I've asked at a gate line. I was even asked if I wanted to go up and meet bignosemac and Grahame on the platform at Swindon on Saturday before the STEAM meet but I declined!

I think the main problem with Truro is the fact that the platforms are more limited in space than say Bristol Temple Meads.

So it's a safety issue then?

What about the countless number of stations without gate lines that have similar platform space and footfall?

I know the trend is toward gating more and more stations, but I was under the impression this was for revenue protection purposes. Not to prevent folk seeing loved ones off or to control numbers accessing the platforms. Yes, in times of 'unusually large passenger flows', but not routinely.

The pragmatic approach taken by most staff on the ground is the right one. Taking the news item at face value it seems that some at Truro are being a little over zealous. And that's not helped when a spokesman from their employer appears to endorse their actions. I appreciate that stations are private property to which the public have access but in most locations staff will happily let you go rail side to help family or friends or just wish them bon voyage. It'd be a pretty heartless member of staff who told little Tommy he couldn't go onto the platform to meet or see off his visiting Grandma.

What is Truro gate line staff's stance on rail enthusiasts? NRE says that, "All Britain's Train Operating Companies and Network Rail welcome rail enthusiasts to their stations." Perhaps if Granny is not allowed to have her family help with the luggage, a nearby spotter can be pressed into portering duties.

That spotter could also deputise for the boyfriend seeing off his girlfriend, if said boyfriend had been refused access to the platforms.  :-* :-* :-*

If we could guarantee everyone seeing someone off on the platform would not board the train to help with luggage and would stand behind the yellow line at departure time I don't think we'd have a problem.

Plymouth allows people to see off relatives/friends on the platform and there have been countless incidents where people have delayed the train because they have boarded to help with luggage or are ignoring dispatchers calls to stand behind the yellow line - and we certainly get more dwell time than Truro!

People boarding to help with luggage is especially an issue when the service is busy, and as they say there goodbyes on the train they slow down the boarding through blocking the aisle right at the end of the coach.

Then you inform and educate. Notices and direction from staff is all that's needed. Using the gate line as a means of preventing all but those travelling from accessing the platforms, because they may be a safety problem or cause delays, is taking a hammer to crack a nut.

And I return to my earlier point. You're free to access the platforms at un-gated stations. Why do the public at stations with barriers need protecting from themselves? The much much busier Temple Meads has never, in my experience, prevented family/friends from accessing the platforms to greet/see off loved ones. Even when the RPIs are about. I've worked near the gate line at Temple Meads for FGW (via agency) and I was specifically instructed that if any one approached me and asked if it was OK to meet or see off a friend/relative I was to say 'yes' and tell them to speak with the gate line staff who would gladly let them through.

Why should Plymouth or Truro be any different? Are Devon and Cornwall family and friends not to be trusted to use common sense?

It's an over-reaction to a minor problem. If there really are 'countless incidents' at Plymouth (which to me seems like hyperbole with little basis in fact) why are Plymouth gate line still allowing friends/relatives through?

Evidence that it is an over-reaction can be found in the 'West Briton' article. Folk are buying tickets to Perranwall to bypass the over zealous gate line staff at Truro. Perhaps FGW's response is less about safety or timekeeping and more about the free revenue they are getting.

I've caused delay by stopping a train more than once, due to a "well-wisher" starting to lean against a departing train, or to decide it was a good idea to hold the hand of someone hanging out of a window and run along the platform!   >:(

Another example, being someone getting on a train that was sat in the station for 3minutes to help someone, was in no hurry to get off and then got locked on the train.  If the next stop wasn't too far, then it's not the end of the World granted, but in this case, the service was non-stop Exeter-Reading and the chappy in question was rueing parking in the 20 min free parking ;).

I'm not saying we should remove the romantic farewell from the Railway, but it is frightening how some people lose all common-sense when at a station.

You can inform and educate "well-wishers" as much as you like, there is nothing you can do, there will always be a better idiot!

Firstly, do not call the gateline staff at Truro "Over Zealous"..  They are not, they are simply doing as they have been asked.  Would you appreciate being called a "Geek" instead of a "Railway Enthusiast"??  No.  Leave the name calling at the door please. 
Secondly, Truro is a very unique location.  It has numerous access points and very few staff compared to other stations with gatelines.  The problem before Truro had barriers was that there would normally be MORE people waving off those people travelling on the up platform.  This caused numerous problems when dispatching the train due to people leaning against the windows, running alongside the train, touching hands through the droplight window, getting stuck on the train when putting luggage on for others and then leaning out putting doors on catch once the CDL had been activated... To name but a few.  There was also LOTS of delay minutes attributed to Truro due to these reasons. 
Platform passes were tried when the gateline was first put into operation, however, this was massively abused and people used these as a means to travel.
Pardon me for being OVER ZEALOUS but it seems that it made the station far more secure and efficient by introducing a no-access rule.  Very few delay minutes are now attributed to Truro which has saved FGW money.  More staff are able to assist people due to the increase in staff at the station and anyone who needs help and is not able to have help from a member of staff always has someone let through to help them. 
Whilst as an enthusiast it is easy to say "Educate and Inform", Joe Public is not interested in being educated only simply in waving frantically at a train. 

I believe that the strict rules will be relaxed in the very near future but it will not be come one come all... It doesnt take the whole family to help one person on with one bag... It someone needs assistance I agree that they should get it. 

I would also like to mention that the public aren't always the victims here.  The amount of abuse I have seen the gateline staff suffer from Joe Public over not being able to waltz on to the station is nothing short of disgraceful.  You certainly wouldnt walk into their place of work and be able to act like that.  Also when people request to come on to meet people from the down train (but have no idea where on an 8 carriage train that person is sitting) they wander up and down the platform looking for somebody when they are outside wandering round the car park looking for the person picking them up.

In closing it needs some common sense from BOTH sides, not just the guys at Truro. 

I wasn't aware that using the term over zealous was name calling. I see as I find and that was my interpretation of the story. I did not give the term capital initials (and later the whole phrase in CAPS) as you have done in your response to justify your view that this is a name rather than observation. Now, if I'd used the 'J' word then maybe you would have a point. I didn't. As for being called a 'Geek', I could argue the subtext is that this is what you are doing anyway, but by dressing it up as a question (with two question marks just in case anyone isn't sure) you can neatly sidestep any accusation yourself of name calling. As it happens I really couldn't care less what I'm called even when it's dressed up as a question. See? I can jump to what may be an incorrect conclusion by twisting words as well.

You're defence of the staff and policy at Truro is admirable, but I ask again what is so special and unique about access there? There are busier stations on the network, with equally challenging layouts many of which are not barriered. My experience of those that are is that gate line staff are happy to allow folk to see off and greet friends and family. Of course if the situation is dangerous due to crowding then by all means use the gate line to ensure only those travelling access the platforms, but this wouldn't be the case all day every day at Truro surely?

I took bignosemac's advice, when I dropped my daughter and grandson at BTM. I asked if I could accompany them to the train, to help with the rather large amount of kit needed to transport an 8-month-old anywhere beyond the front door. No problem Sir, ask for me if you have trouble getting back through the gate, said the pleasant lady.  ;D

Least she called you sir, nothing gets my goat more than being called 'mate'.  Seriously though - it is like most things on the railway, and indeed life, if you have a reasonable request and you ask politely you usually get the answer you want.

Bignosemac claiming the moral highground as on all forums as usual, Truro gateline is operated in the way that all stations should be operated, quite rightly my fan (and i still dont know who it is!!) has pointed out that the delay minutes at Truro have disappeared since the gates went in, I'm not going to get into an argument but other stations appear to be adopting a similar stance, when 5 people are let through to see of one person it causes congestion at the gateline when they all wonder back with the influx that has just come off the train when they try to push the gate open or follow someone else through and then get stuck and blame everyone but themselves, most arguments i have seen at gatelines is with people who aren't travelling and seem to think they can abuse the staff however they see fit.

Some random thoughts / comments ...

1. National Conditions of carriage state: "Unless you are disabled or have reduced mobility and have made arrangements in advance for assistance, you should be able to manage your luggage without additional help."

2. It's always harder to tighten up on a previously more permissive set of rules than to decide rules from afresh

3. I wonder if the particular references to delays at Truro caused by too many departing wellwishers are concentrated on trains that travel beyond Taunton?  Do Falmouth, Penzance, or Plymouth locals also suffer?

4. """Would you appreciate being called a "Geek" instead of a "Railway Enthusiast"??  No.  Leave the name calling at the door please.""" Personally I would be delighted to be called a geek; not sure what the problem is with that.  But I'm not a railway enthusiast in the classic mold!

5. """Whilst as an enthusiast it is easy to say "Educate and Inform", Joe Public is not interested in being educated only simply in waving frantically at a train."""  Hmmm - that may apply to some, but I've often found that most Joe Publics are quite happy to be educated / directed if it is truly education - giving a reasonable explanation of why.  Not just "because I say so", nor just "it's rules". In the area that I live and where I travel, most FGW customer facing staff are excellent at providing such information, it's appreciated, and results in co-operation.Yes - there are odd "cases".  Is Truro so different?

For the past couple of weeks I have been a regular passenger using Truro station and can endorse the view that it has special problems for staff managing the platforms.  This had grown steadily worse as the University at Falmouth got into its stride and the Falmouth unit disgorged 50 plus teenagers onto the already crowded platforms every half hour.  At least the barriers have stopped the rampant fare dodging which was a feature of this service.

I also use the station for railway photography.  "Geek" really doesn't work as I am no good with numbers, "Veg" is plain insulting, so enthusiast is probably about right.

I always make a point of asking for staff approval at stations and have yet to be refused but, although it isn't the case at Truro, it sometimes seems that the ATOC or BTP "Guidelines For Enthusiasts" don't reach frontline staff.  Some of their comments suggest they are making up rules as they go along rather than putting the responsibility on the photographer to follow the Guidelines.

This may not be a general view but I feel there is a responsibility on photographers not to abuse their privilege by intruding on travellers' privacy or snapping staff in unguarded moments then posting the pictures on public web sites.

I shall be back tomorrow to try and capture an image of the Burngullow-Long Rock fuel train whose erratic timing has, so far, eluded me.

 

Thank you very much for that positive and interesting first post, Snapper - and a warm welcome to the Coffee Shop forum!  :)

There is no automatic right of entry to station platforms for non fare paying members of the public.  Why should there be? Try walking to the tarmac at Newquay airport or onto the ferry at Plymouth.

From a guard's viewpoint, it makes supreme sense to have barriers at Truro. I have lost count of the number of times I have had to abort dispatch of trains at ungated stations, due to last minute dashes or repeated lingering farewells. Even worse are those who board trains not intending to travel; a major cause of doors on the catch as the hapless helper struggles to leave.

At Truro, there are no grieving relatives seeing off the passenger and consequently fewer bodies to interrupt line of sight with signals and the dispatcher, absolutely vital from a safety standpoint.

With regard to revenue, gate-lines are a huge deterrent to ticket bilkers.  Thousands in unpaid revenue, which was previously waltzing off the station is now collected.

Sadly, cost prevents the adoption of gates at all larger stations, although an initiative  at Penzance, using a member of staff to control the manual gates recently installed there; has reduced delays and prompted a significant increase in revenue collected. Long may it continue.

I  can't disagree with any of your observations about Truro.

However, having spent several hours on Pl 3 today, I would say that the unmanned access from the station car park is the source of frequent passenger frustration.

The sight of bemused passengers trying to discover which bit of the assistance point holds the camera with which the remote operator will examine their ticket and tell them which platform to use, suggests this facility is a technological step too far.

Still, in the interests of combating fare evasion and maintaining good time, both of which were high on my "wants" list, it may be a price we have to pay.

Finally, the footbridge at the East End (by the LC) is getting an external makeover from NR.   Soon.

Have just started some work in Truro, and commute down from Exeter (with overnight stays). Station looking good, but:

Why is there virtually no signage from Truro city centre to the station? I have found myself yomping up the wrong hill twice now, and have had to ask for directions several times.