Great Western Coffee Shop

Over the last year, I've come across all sorts of rail trivia, and I'll be posting a random question here each day - a "Twelve days of Christmas" quiz.  No formal prizes on offer / some of the "answers" may be matters of opinion, but let's have some fun.  Some of the questions I have in mind could lead to hours of research if you're fed up with turkey and tele!

Let's start with a bonus for Christmas Eve ...

0. What special precautions can you list in the British Isles that are currently taken in particular locations to stop rock falls onto the track? I can think of three straight off ...

On the Oban line trip wires will put semaphore signals to danger if rocks fall on them. I believe that this is the only use for these signals, which are therefore almost always off.

Fence at Dawlish, trip wires between Folkestone & Shakespeare Cliff, Penmaenmawr avalanche shelter?

I had the Oban line signals as one of the three I expected ... more details at

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/location.php?loc=Falls%20of%20Cruachan
http://www.railbrit.co.uk/location.php?loc=Pass%20of%20Brander
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pass_of_Brander_stone_signals
http://www.railsigns.co.uk/info/stonesig1/stonesig1.html


Those are good ... I had two other avalance shelters that I knew of (can anyone come up with places?), but had overlooked Penmaenmawr until you mentioned it, and I had wondered what there was at Dawlish.  Vague bells ring about Shakespeare Cliff - are the trip wires still there?

They detect rather than stop rock falls onto the track, though!

You're right, of course.   Now if I had taken bets on who would have picked me up on such an error, guess who the odds-on favourite would have been  ;)   ... Happy Christmas, TJ

Following up from yesterday, the two others I had were the rock shelters / avalance deflectors between Llwyngwril and Fairbourne, and on the Kyle of Lochalsh line between Strathcarron and Duncraig Castle if memory serves right

Christmas day question ...

1. What Christmas words can you find hidden in station names?   For example, you'll find all the letters of "Christmas" in "King's Cross Thameslink" (and yes, there are two "s"s).

Here are some things to start you ...

* There are two stations in towns that FGW serve where you can find "reindeer"

* First Great Western provide some of the services where there's "turkey"

* And who will you find in Lelant Saltings?

There's a station list at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/smr/index.html ... if you get a sample station data set, then you need to log in (if you're not registered - go on - it's free and we always welcome more members especially at Christmas!)

I think I can see 'Santa' at Lelant Saltings. ;)

... and I'm sure there's a reindeer in Cardiff Queen Street - and another in Windsor & Eton Riverside.

A turkey has also been seen in Ashchurch for Tewkesbury.

As well as snow in Ascott-under-Wychwood, and a robin in Bicester Town.  ;D

... and, rather topically, there's ice in Nailsea & Backwell! ;)

Yep all of those ;-) ...   But I hadn't spotted the snow at Ascott, nor the Robin at Bicester Town.

There is a second 'Christmas': Swinton (Gr Manchester) {OK, a bit of a cheat}

A mince pie: Manchester Piccadilly

Presents: Parson Street, Weston-super-Mare (and Newport (S. Wales))

And if you don't like your gift there are 8 receipts:

• Liverpool Central
• Rhoose Cardiff International Airport
• Chapel-en-le-Frith
• Clapham High Street
• Manchester Airport
• Berwick-upon-Tweed
• Manchester Piccadilly
• Prestwick International Airport

Sprouts:

• Paisley Gilmour Street
• Portsmouth & Southsea
• South Ruislip
• Whitchurch (Shropshire)
• Portsmouth Arms
• Weston-super-Mare

These are all the Reindeer:

• Edinburgh Waverley
• Dunfermline Queen Margaret
• Windermere
• London Liverpool Street
• Birkenhead Central
• Burley-in-Wharfedale
• Cardiff Queen Street
• Windsor & Eton Riverside

Two more if you include the suffixes: Howwood (Renfrewshire) and Moreton (Merseyside)

You can also find the individual reindeer names:
2 Rudolphs: Northumberland Park and Upper Halliford
Blitzen: Leighton Buzzard
There are 66 Donners, 57 Dancers, 56 Dashers, 8 Prancers, 39 Comets and 3 Cupids. There aren't any Vixens, though (unless you spell 'St' in full, when you can have two: 'Exeter Saint Davids' and 'Saint Budeaux Victoria Road')

Nine Scrooges:

• Birchington-on-sea
• Chessington North
• Cooksbridge
• Gainsborough Central
• Stourbridge Junction
• Worcester Foregate Street
• Georgemas Junction
• Princes Risborough
• Stone Crossing

I found 98 Santas and 89 Robins. And finally, there's one Humbug: Musselburgh.

---

Telly's been crap tonight, hasn't it...

Did you spend xmas day on your own then!

Excellent list TerminalJunkie.. Saved me a lot of effort :-)

There are twenty "terminals" but only one "junkie".   Anyone know where it is?

The "Junkie" is at Beckenham Junction".

I rather suspect that the impressive list of answers didn't take all that long for our friend from North Devon ... I know that I wrote a program to do most of the work for me, and suspect he did so to.  I'll put a copy online a little later and come back and modify the post to point you at it.   Meanwhile, for today, one that doesn't easily automate ...


Update ....   Automated script:

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/cgi-bin/algo_cgi.pl

2. Can you identify the station that I am writing about, and where these slow trains went?

[All three answers today are from pages I came across online so you might be able to research them that way too]

a) One line in from one end ... several lines going out of the other.  On one of those lines, there were just two trains a day ... arriving at 10:18 and leaving again at 10:40, then arriving at 15:55 (16:40 on Saturday) and leaving again at 18:40.  The journey those trains made - of some 20 miles - took no less that an hour and 26 minutes. [Bradshaw, October 1950]. The station site has been completely replaced by housing in two new roads called Station Fields and Beeching Close.

b) A population of 1,120 in 2002. In July, 1922 just trains used to leave the station here (at 08:00 and 14:45) for the 75 mile journey to a city, where they arrived at 13:08 and 19:48. The service from this terminus ceased in 1940, though part of the line remained open until 1947, and a shorter part still until 1953.

c) Departures at 05:20, 07:16, 09:47, 13:00, 16:23, 18:22 and 21:00 (just on Saturdays) ... a journey of about 45 minutes from this terminus to the junction some 9 miles away.  The line was officially opened in 1872, but the timetable I have quoted is for 1950, by which time it had a different gauge and destination. The very last train ran on 5th November 1966, when the line was cut back by 5 miles and four stations closed, leaving just a stub of 4 miles from the junction and two stations on the 'branch'.

Hmmm ... not even a hint of an answer ... I guess the TV's better today  ;)

Two of the three are right down in the South West  (that's "well beyond Taunton" from where I live) .... the other one is mostly in "The South", but geographically is north of most of "The North", and isn't anywhere near where the FGW runs its trains.

a) Halwill Junction?

Hmm.  Sorry, grahame, but these three don't seem to be too easy, do they?

Taking your 'hint' that a couple of them may involve Devon or Cornwall, I found myself floundering in Padstow, or Wadebridge, for example - but I was clearly out of my depth!

Another clue (or three!) would be welcome!

C.  :-[

Those are indeed trickier ... perhaps too tricky.   But Bignosemach had Halwill Junction correct; lines to Padstow via Wadebridge (so you were on the right lines, Chris), Bude, and that twice-a-day to Torrington.

The other one in the South West ... the remaining section is the only line AFAIK that was built as a light railway and remains open as part of the main network.    And .... you can only have the south looping round and coming above the north in Ireland, can't you?  There were a couple of narrow gauge lines that became international services when the 26 counties and the six counties separated.

c) Callington

Yes, indeed -  (c) is Callington

Here are the links that I used to glean the information for yesterday's question ... and they include links for a fourth question which I did not give you.

http://trainweb.org/railwest/railco/sr/cal-service.html
http://www.trainweb.org/railwest/railco/br/halts.html
http://www.cdrrl.com/LLSRtimetables.htm
http://deaves47.users.btopenworld.com/Tunnels/Tunnels1.htm
http://trainweb.org/railwest/images/misc/wtt-cal-br50.jpg
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/stations/h/halwill/index.shtml
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=102796

You may enjoy browsing some of those, and you can certainly tell me that it's "B for B......." now, I suspect.

b) Burtonport -  was just getting there when you posted links, honest!

Yes,  on the Londonderry and Lough Swilly Railway ... a fascinating line from another age.  The clues given, including the extra ones at the end of yesterday would have given it to you, so I do believe you were looking around in country Donegal (Killybegs, Glenties, Ballyshannon [which also had an 08:00 departure for Londonderry], Buncrana, Cardonagh)

3. Can you name the 12 furthest terminating points for trains that departed from London's Paddington station in 2009?   As a bonus, can you list any other destinations that would have displaced places off that list in the past?

How about

1.  Penzance
2.  Plymouth
3.  Paignton
4.  Exeter St Davids
5.  Taunton
6.  Weston Super Mare
7.  Carmarthen
8.  Swansea
9.  Cardiff
10.Hereford
11.Great Malvern
12. Worcester Foregate St

From the past Newquay, Falmouth, Kingswear, Fishguard Harbour,Weymouth

A good start.  I can find some others from this year which will displace a few of your lower ones  :D ... and I can think of some altogether more "out of area" destinations from the past!

From the past - Birkenhead Woodside, Aberystwyth, Minehead, Pwllheli, Barnstaple.

Wrexham is certainly one!

Last year we also had Newquay and Pembroke Dock.  In the past I am sure that there was a Paddington to Glasgow/Edinburgh service for a while, definitely a paddington to Manchester.  Historically you can also add St Ives, Falmouth, Kingsbridge, Kingswear, Ilfracombe, Neyland, Milford HAven & Fishguard Harbour

Good lists ... Winter 1997 - 1998 (and probably for longer), there was a 14:18 Paddington to Edinburgh, arrive 21:38. I have the previous stop shown as Lockerbie at 20:29 ... so it wasn't Glasgow, at least not that winter.

From the past Wolverhampton Shrewsbury Chester, Birkenhead, Pwllheli, Aberystwyth.

When I were a lad there were frequent Sunday excursions from Padd/ Slough to various Valley destinations such as Aberdare, Treherbert etc. Some of the older spotters used to take them to get the pre grouping tanks. 

Wasn't Newquay served this year?

Wasn't that when WSMR terminated into London Padd because of the London Marylebone Engineering Works...?!

Yep

Yep,

How about Pembroke Dock to the list too?

Revisiting a previous question.....

Passing an idle half hour whilst on the 1823 TAU-PAD to BRI, I was looking for 'Santa' elswhere on the FGW network map included in the FGW magazine*. Taking the names as they appear on the map, I found Santa at five FGW served stations. Anyone wanna have a guess?

*What do we call the rail equivalent of an in-flight magazine?

There are eight, actually. Swipe your mouse between the asterisks below:
*Aldermaston, Barnstaple, Bramley (Hants), Cheltenham Spa, Hayes & Harlington, Lelant Saltings, St Andrews Road, Stapelton Road*

'Litter' ::)

Thanks TJ. I missed Barnstaple and Hayes & Harlington. Bramley appears on the FGW network map minus the bracketed 'Hants' though. There is one more FGW served station where 'Santa' can be found methinks....

Southampton Central?

Bingo!

Bignose waits with bated breath for the next question. Gotta be more enjoyable than the Bank Holiday Monday telly....not a sniff of 'The Great Escape' on terrestrial telly..... :D

Nor 'Where Eagles Dare'  ::)

You can find "Litter" in Bristol Temple Meads, Severn Tunnel Junction ...

There are some that I am not sure on here ... this was the "best" list I could some up with ... I've listed somewhat more than 12 as I'm not sure of relative distance and some of my suggestions need validation.   And I have just added Wrexham as I had overlooked that - it was during 2009, was it?

Penzance
Truro (? During engineering works or was it a late running train)
St Austell (? During engineering works)
Newquay
Par (Special, 5th April)
Plymouth
Kingswear (Specials, 13th June, 9th September)
Paignton
Newton Abbott (During Engineering works)
Exeter
Taunton

Pembroke Dock
Carmarthen
Swansea
? Any short turn arounds between Cardiff and Swansea ?
Cardiff

Abergavenny (or is that historic / only towards London?)
Hereford
Gt Malvern

Chester (Special, 6th June)
Wrexham (during Engineering works on Marylebone run)

I couldn't trace any specials from Paddington to Minehead in 2009. Southmapton Central is an interesting destination.  Was it in 2009?   Even if it was, I suspect it wouldn't be in the list above as it's too close in to London and not one of the furthest.   Excellent list of other places that have been served in the past too ... and I'm sure there are large numbers more

4. With a handful of quieter days between Christmas and the New Year, rail management staff will be seated at their desks and thinking strategically ahead. What positive new ideas should / could they implement / test / start work on in 2010 to the benefit of their passengers, their staff, their shareholders / stakeholders, the environment ... ?

Let me start the ball rolling

"Railway Awareness Day / Weekend".  On an otherwise-quiet day or weekend, an extra train or two will supplement the service on a line to encourage extra traffic.   With a strong local marketing campaign, a simplified special fare for the day, and perhaps trains that aren't normally used on the line this could attract extra people and publicity that would last well beyond the weekend!  I recall Alison Forster addressing Travel Watch South West and telling us how there are large numbers of people out there who would use the train if encouraged to do so. This could be a way to bring some of them in, and start traffic levels on an up.

I suppose this comes under "Benefitting passengers and possibly increasing revenue

Being very parochial and it's nothing to Grahame's problems getting a decent service to Melksham.

Sunday Services at Taplow.

EnvironmentSpeed up electrification.

Back to Paddington destinations.

Penzance has milepost 326 II on the station.

What is unique about this particular milepost?

Its wrong?

I make Paddington - Penzance via box 328m30c!

The milepost at Penzance has the highest value on the system.  It records the mileage from Paddington via Box, Bristol and the old Millbay station at Plymouth.  It reads slightly higher than the present mileage via Box and Bristol.  Devon Metro I suggest you check your figures again as you are 3 miles out.

A lot of the ideas that could be put forward will be localised / parochial ... and indeed my "seed" idea would be of local benefit on our line. But, yes, offer .... Sunday Services at Taplow ... MerryMaker Services from St Philip's Marsh (http://MerryMaker Services from St Philip's Marsh) (and when did FGW last run a "Mystex") ... Rambler's special tickets out to Pewsey and back from Bedwyn ... Web site Personalised timetable to cover all day not just 4 hour chunks ... behind-the-scenes tours for commuters ... free fruit in First Class on Mondays  ;)

Mystex. That takes me back went on one in 60s/70s, 3 117 units ended up in Coventry. Lickey incline was fun!

What about a Chris Green NSE day anywhere/everywhere in old NSE for ^10. Won't be so much fun no 86s to Cambridge or even 47s from Slough to Bromley South. Or of course no 50s on the Waterloo Exeters. Never have so few trains carried so many passengers.

East Midlands Trains, London Midland and South West Trains have all run promotions similar to this, allowing ^10 travel on one day across their networks.

Southern also do a daysave at ^10 off peak.

....Benefit of Passengers. Boxing Day trains across the network please.

....Benefit of Stakeholders. A nationwide advertising campaign from ATOC extolling the virtues of travelling by train. One thing that is sadly missed since privatisation are the excellent TV ads that BR used to run.

I thought the earlier post saying there's a turkey in Ashchurch a bit near the bone.

Ah .. I think I have asked questions that areway to serious for "the lighter" side today.  Lighter tomorrow, I promise

I'm going to expand on bignosemac's answer and suggest a look at all highday / holiday services - I'm of the view (being discussed elsewhere today!) that the point of providing a passenger train service should be to ship passengers around, and if there's a substantive need it should be met, and at the same time historic services that will benefit many by adaption should be adapted.  I'm thinking of comments about the Cross Country services to Newquay on Summer Saturdays which date back to the days of a traditional week's holiday; I understand those trains are not busy at the extreme Newquay end of their runs and wonder if the stock would be better employed elsewhere, leving the branch available for the normal service instead.  I'm actually tempted to start with a "seven day railway" service and then suggest commuter reductions on Saturday and Sunday, using the stock (especially on Sunday evening) for some longer distance strengthening, and on Saturday for some of those "ideas above".

P.S.  Look at the needs and desires of the people who want to travel ... don't just do the P.F. trick of on train surveys, which  wouldn't have come up with anyone wanting to travel on Boxing Day  :o

Do we have a "groan" emoticon somewhere ??

It was something I just plucked out of the air, but it may have ruffled a few feathers ...  :-[

Ain't it a bit late for crap Xmas cracker type puns? Come on folks, keep abreast of things :-[

(http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/groooansmileyf.gif) (http://www.millan.net)

5. Can you name the following statistical extremes on FGW / in the Thames Valley, South West and South Wales

a) Longest scheduled Journey (miles)
b) Shortest scheduled Journey (miles)
c) Fastest scheduled run between two stations (m.p.h.)
d) Train service with the most stops
e) Highest station (above sea level) served by an FGW train
f) FGW run station with fewest FGW services calling there
g) The longest distance from a signal box to a signal that it operates

Any other statistical extremes you can quote - longest serving FGW director, oldest train operated by First, loewst and highest annual jouneys per head of population in a station's catchment area, etc!

Probably either Dean or Mottisfont & Dunbridge.

Has to be unless someone can find a station with less than zero calls... ;D

Paul

Shortest Scheduled

Slough Windsor 2 miles 64 chains? Unless there's a Lawrence Hill  Temple Meads service 1m 04ch

For g do you mean mechanically from a lever  (semaphore or colour light) or a colour light from a panel or IECC. If the latter the first controlled signal on the Up Berk and Hants  from Reading panel. Possibly for Woodborough loops at around 36 miles.

e Hedging my bets Ivybridge for mainline, St Columb Road or Roche Newquay branch.

d) Train service with the most stops

09.00 Brighton To Great Malvern = 35 stops

e) Oakhampton?

I make it the 08:59 Swindon - Reading (arr 09:25)
Taking 26 minutes which makes it an average speed of 97.62mph.

What a flood of answers ... this is for *fun* so I let myself be a bit wooly in the specs. 

There have been some calls by FGW trains at Dean and Mottisfont / Dunbridge this year so it's not quite as simple as comparing to zero, but I suspect that the numbers at those two stations ARE below those calling at Pilning.  Another station would be a good candidate for the smallest number of FGW services arriving or departing, except that I said FGW run.

I've only got the mileages to the nearest quarter to hand ... there ARE other services that tie with Slough - Windsor (2 3/4 miles).

Okehampton, almost certainly is the highest FGW served station, and I've not worked out the most stops but I felt it had to be one of the Brighton trains.   On signalling distance, I didn't specify "mechanical only" and I'll believe you on the Woodborough loops if they're controlled from Reading.

26 minutes Swindon to Reading ... yes, we'll take that as the answer unless anyone can spot anything faster.   You'll note I didn't ask about the slowest journey!

Longest Scheduled (miles)

0730 PAD-PNZ via BRI (Mon-Fri)
0739 PNZ-PAD via BRI (Mon-Fri)

Similar services on Sat/Sun also run via BRI.

I make the mileage 326^.

... and I think that neatly answers all the questions from yesterday.

We've had no photos, so ...

6. Can you identify the subject  and / or location of the following rail related pictures? (I have cropped them all tightly to make the quiz more interesting, but there has been no airbrushing at all.)

1. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/bitof1.jpg)

2. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/bitof2.jpg)

3. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/bitof3.jpg)

4. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/bitof4.jpg)

5. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/bitof5.jpg)

6. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/bitof6.jpg)

7. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/bitof7.jpg)

8. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/bitof8.jpg)

9. (http://www.wellho.net/pix/bitof9.jpg)

I have something a bit different lined up for New Years' Eve  ;)

2. Weymouth Quay Branch?
9. Crisp eating in Toytown?

No


Not *quite* Toytown but you are remarkably close!

5.  Melksham  ;)
9.  Taunton   ::)

Right on both counts!

Number five ...

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/bitof5.jpg)

SHOULD be replaced by one of these next year:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/helppoint.jpg)

BUT I understand we're likely to get one of these:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/evemyst2.jpg)

because the current traffic levels don't justify anything more (seems a short sighted call to me, that one, bearing in mind all the effort to get a decent service and the acknowledgement all around that Melksham station is horrendously underserved and underresourced!)

P.S. You really wonder how often the replacement type is out of service when the text telling you what do do if it's out of order is bigger than the normal instructions for use!

Is number 3 extending the platform at Keynsham?

Yes - exactly right - place and activity!

No.1 is a First TransPennine Express Class 185 at York, judging from the reflection in the window of the ornate column.

No.4 (the photo is on its side) is inside a BR Mark 1 coach (possibly a compartment coach), the metal bracket is meant to support a full-size table but I think they were rarely used.

The more familiar version of this type, ie without the screen, is used widely on other parts of the network, and on LU.  It would be a better choice, because in an ideal world it would be upgradeableto fit the train info screen later?  I'm pretty sure the casing is the same size.

Paul

Correct (including York, very impressive) in both cases.  Photo No. 4 was taken just a couple of months ago, and on a main Network Rail maintained line ...

No. 6 is a road/rail JCB type enginnering bit of kit? Something similar to this: http://www.railability.co.uk/railplant.htm (http://www.railability.co.uk/railplant.htm)

They often look like a JCB with metal wheels and if anyone's ever seen one in action it can change from rail to road mode is seconds - although 'road' mode usually in the sense of moving on ballast between tracks and at the lineside.

I decided that as the county town of Somerset always seems to slip into these photo quizzes, I'd refrain from naming it explicity. A kind of superstition like not naming a certain 'Scottish Play' ;D

7. is an MGR coal wagon, "HHA" if i remember correctly. Presumably it's between Trowbridge and Bristol as the Westbury Cement Works - Somewhere in Wales still uses these, my guess is therefore Bradford On Avon.

Yes, and thanks for the extra data.   The one I pictured (different view) looked like this:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/hydrex_at_melksham.jpg)

Number 4 is the latch for a removable table on a (if my memory serves me correctly) 3Cig, so most likely to be the Lymington Branch Line?

Yes ... you'll find it on page (3) of this record I made in September ...
http://www.wellho.net/share/slammers.html
http://www.wellho.net/share/slammers2.html
http://www.wellho.net/share/slammers3.html

With more descriptive text at ...
http://www.wellho.co.uk/mouth/2395_From-Lymington-by-train-last-of-the-slammers.html?pwidth=wide

I'll take your word for the wagon type.  You didn't have a chance on this picture to give me a "where"; it is Wiltshire, but not between Westbury and Bath / Bristol.  There is the prceeding picture on my film:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/vto5.jpg)

which is still not an easy location to get, I don't think.

(2) Is on Hampton Marshall Level Crossing
(8) Is a locomotive bogie on the Blue Ridge Scenit Railroad in Georgia

All the rest ... you clever folks got!

It is said that men do much better than women ... with keeping to their new year's resolutions; women only manage to keep to theirs, on average for five days.  There *are* ways, ladies, of improving your persistance - making the targets attainable ones is a good start, and having something like a serious health issue behind a more major change is a darned good way of encouraging you to stay with the change; sorry - that's not lighter side, but personal experience of making a life change..  Oh - you're probably wondering how long a man lasts on average (with his new year resolutions!).  It's six days ;)

7. What railway related new year's resolutions will you / should you be making for 2010?  If you're a commuter, will you be saying a cheery "good morning" to your fellow travellers each morning?  If you're ... no - I'm going to let you make the suggestions!

I am posting this in spite of Chris's "New Year Resolution" thread as his relates to the Coffee Shop specifically

Happy New Year, everyone!

8. Can you answer these?

a) If a train starts from Swearword & Ethanol, does it end at Methanol Theta? Explain!
b) Where would you find Eel Story, Hog Statue, Burst Racoon and Owl News South?
c) How about Cow Danced, Cock Ness and Setter Stew?
d) What colour gets you from Apt Nodding to Written Mess?

Harrow & Wealdstone to Tottenham Hale?  Answer is no as there are no direct trains on either LU or NR.

Burnley Manchester Road, Milton Keynes Central, Paisley Gilmour Street, Walton (Merseyside) and Waterloo (Merseyside)
New Southgate
Ardrossan South Beach or Gainsborough Central
Walthamstow Queen's Road

I'll leave the rest for someone else  ;D

Yes, that's correct ... I was actually looking at the underground names there.



Well, yes, you could but I had something in mind where you might find them much closer together than that.  I don't suppose the service from Walthamstow Queen's Road to Gainsborough Central is going to be particularly brilliant ...

Eel Story : Osterley
Hog Statue : Southgate
Burst Racoon : Barons Court
Owl News South : Houndslow Wes


Apt Nodding to Written Mess direct would be Yellow

(Paddington - Westminster via the Circle line)

Yes ... that's Piccadilly line and Circle line.    I wondered if there was a political joke / comment in the fact that Westminster is an anagram of "Written Mess".

Leaves just (c) unanswered ...

Methinks you picked up the LU station anagrams from this map (http://www.anagramtubemap.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/).

So ... where are Cow Danced, Cock Ness and Setter Stew?

They be on the Clockwork Orange (SPT Subway, Glasgow). Although there be more than one dancing cow!

Cows Danced - Cowcaddens
Cock Ness - Cessnock
Setter Stew - West Street

Oops - sorry about that.  How about "each platform is a Cowcadden ... add them up and you get two Cowcaddens".  OK - it was my mistake ... special "well done" for getting it anyway.

If I get the first train from "A" to "B", stop there for at least an hour, then get the first train back, how long am I away from "A" and how long do I ACTUALLY spend in "B"?  We'll call this time "B" the minimum layover

9. For a journey that starts on the first available train after 05:00 on Monday, 11th January 2010, what is the longest minimum layover time you can find (lines with FGW services)?  I'm going to allow you one change of train along the route as you return, and a maximum outward journey time of 90 minutes, as this is really a commuter question!

---

Background and example

I was surprised last year to be told that timetabling studies take little account of the layover times at destination, and instead concentrate on the flows or projected flows at peak time, with scant consideration to the effect on the other flow. But it can be critical ... a 10 hours 58 minute minimum layover (as we have from Melksham to Swindon) is 60 to 90 minutes too long, and restricts traffic. Just yesterday I was hearing of yet another person who commutes by car to Swindon and would love a practical alternative ...

See http://www.wellho.net/mouth/2457_Railway-Arithmetic.html where I have delved even deeper into this

Yes, I already know of cases that are worse that the one I have quoted ... can YOU find them?

Christmas is feeling a long time ago now, in spite of us still being in the "12 days". Or perhaps my question was obscure or too boringly (for some readers!) TransWilts based.  Actually we only come in "Third worst" although our lousy commute is between 2 towns, 6 miles apart, with populations of over 20,000 each.  The others are smaller places and / or a special case just for January.

3. Melksham (4th largest town in Wiltshire) to Trowbridge (the county town) ... travel by train, and you'll arrive in Trowbridge at 06:50, and not be able to leave again until 19:37 for a 19:47 arrival back in your home town.

2. Pilning to Severn Tunnel Junction.  You can't leave until 15:41 on Saturday, 16th January ... and you then spend just a few hours short of a week at Severn Tunnel Junction ... the return train gets you in at 08:32 on Saturday, 23rd January

1. Menheniot to Liskeard.  Surprisingly, the first train westbound doesn't call until 08:44 (08:51 at Liskeard) and the return train(s) ... are not calling at all until 1st February. So you'll get back (with my 'rules') at 07:34 on 1st February, having set out on 11th January. 

The footbridge at Menheniot is being replaced ... only westbound services calling from this week until 31st January - http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=4547 . As I researched this, I was a bit surprised to find just how sparse the westbound service is - 08:44, 16:25, 17:34 and 18:45 - has it always been this low a service?

The advise on the web page quoted is for passengers from the West to Menheniot this month to travel one stop beyond - to St Gernams - and get a train or bus back.  No advise is offered online for people who wish to join trains such as the 07:34 to get them to Plymouth by 08:05; is there any advise posted at the station?

An much easier one for today ...

10. What is the oldest train (piece of rolling stock) that FGW operate, and what is the newest?   When were they built? Do they operate anything (not a train) which is older, and if so, what?

I'll guess the oldest is the Class 57, which were originally built 64/65. Though if there is a brake van in the sleeper set then those could be older.

Oldest must be the class 08 shunting locos built from 1953 - 1962

Newest probably a turbo 166

There are a couple staff members I could name but modesty forbids  ;D

Bristol Temple Meads - 1840?

I like the answer ... but isn't that the date of the original platforms which closed in the mid 1960s? 

Very true.  Just done a bit more research and seen that Brunel's station is now the building that used to house the British Empire & Commonwealth Museum.  The main entrance (ticket office area) was built in 1870 and seems to be the oldest part still in operation.

Oldest rolling stock in passenger use are possibly the class 57/6 used on the Night Riviera.

57602 Restmoral Castle (originally 47337/D1818 built 02/65)
57603 Tintagel Castle (47349/D1830 03/65)
57604 Pendennis Castle (47209/D1859 08/65)
57605 Totnes Castle (47206/D1856 08/65)

Newest in passenger use maybe the Class 67's used on the loco hauled set between CDF-TAU/PGN built 1999/2000.

Is it Radley which has  an early Brunel buiding probaly 1850s?

I don't know ... I wonder about Bath - opened 1840; how much has the older part of that changed?

It's no longer broad gauge ... ?  ::) ;D

Are there any extant structures (excluding trackbed and embankments/cuttings) on the first section of the GWR to open: The 22^ mile run from Paddington to Maidenhead Bridge Station which opened to traffic on 4th June 1838?

First group are said to operate "less that five" Class 08 shunters as a whole ... and I have not seen them on the FGW lists.  Are there one or two at places like Old Oak?


Funny, isn't it, that even words like "newest", "oldest" and "operate" are so hard to define.  I like that answer ... you could, of course, argue that it's another company who operates (drives) the class 67, so the oldest AND the newest piece of rolling stock that FGW operate are both answered by the Class 57!

Then I might go for the the oldest / newest passenger carrying vehicle being either something in a 125 or a sleeper carriage of 1960s vintage, and the newset the last of the 166 builds in 1993 ...

11. How many seats does FGW operate per day from Reading to London Paddington (you're going to have to work this one out, I suspect - I've not seen the figure published!).  Any guesses that the average occupancy rate might be, and how many people (in total) have to stand?  How many extra seats from Reading to London are provided by another operator?

I suspect that's quite a tricky one, and everyone's back to w*rk with Christmas long since over.   So am I ... so I'm going to post the final "12 days" question early ...

12. One each please, until after midnight ... can you tell me where I took each of these pictures? They are all pictures that I took myself, within Great Britain, in the last five years ...

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_01.jpg)(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_02.jpg)(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_03.jpg) 1,2,3
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_04.jpg)(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_05.jpg)(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_06.jpg) 4,5,6
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_07.jpg)(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_08.jpg)(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_09.jpg) 7,8,9
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_10.jpg)(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_11.jpg)(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_12.jpg) 10,11,12

4. Bristol Temple Meads?

8.  Melksham.  ;)

Yes.  Warship diesel in your avatar?  Nice!

Yup ...

5 Weymouth

Yup. That's D821 Warship Class 'Greyhound'. The first ever ex-BR mainline diesel to be preserved.

No 3 is Swindon Loco Shed / Refueling point

... and, having waited patiently until midnight, I'm going to offer a second suggestion:

11.  Royal Albert Bridge, Plymouth.

(... but it's probably not, is it?  ::) :P :-[ )

I've also waited patiently 'til after the witching hour to ask whether a certain wesscundry location is missing from this selection of photos? I think we should be told ;D

New Year resolutions, remember?  ;D

Let's see if Mr Ellis keeps it up eh, Chris?  ;D

My, allowed by the rules, second guess is:

12. Keynsham?

Keynsham, Weymouth and Swindon are all correct ... but there is no Royal Abert Bridge, nor is the county town of Somerset featured  ;)

Some very rough calculations for the first part  (I expect to be told that some of my figures are very inaccurate!) ...

FGW
8 an hour x 7 car x 70 seats x 14 hours
4 an hour x 3 car x 75 seats x 16 hours
= 69280 seats

SWT
2 an hour x 8 car x 75 seats x 4 hours
2 an hour x 4 car x 75 seats x 14 hours
= 13200

The SWT contribution is 8 car all day 7/7, except for the last train from Waterloo (Mon - Sat) which are single 450s. The Reading route 458s are made up into 8 car sets semi-permanently .

Paul

Thanks - shows how little I've looked across at that service in the past.   I'll come back and update my calculations when any other error have been notified to me - I suspect some of the other figures may be out too, but not that dramatically!

---

Here are the remaining pictures to identify during the final day:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_01.jpg)(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_02.jpg) 1,2
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_06.jpg) 6
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_07.jpg)(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_09.jpg) 7,9
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_10.jpg)(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_11.jpg) 10,11

Was number 1 taken at Avoncliff?

Yes, it was

Number 2 is Thingley sidings between Box tunnel and Chippenham??

I think that the derelict stock has long gone

Yes, you're right.   The pictures are all taken within the last five years - you'll see old paint jobs too, as well as those wrecks - it's quite a surprise how much has changed!

Is 6 Bristol Temple Meads?  The arch thing looks like paddington but its not paddington and I thought BTM was very similar in design.  But then I've never been to BTM so I have no clue

I assume you mean 9 and I think you are right.  The barrier tapes would be in the right possition for the station exit and I think they were used before the automatic barriers were installed.

No.4 - already guessed correctly was Bristol Temple Meads.   Neither 6 nor 9 is Temple Meads (they're not anywhere else in Bristol either!) ... but I can see the similarity.

Most, but not all, of the easy ones have been guessed correctly already  ;)

9 Edinburgh (Haymarket)? First Scotrail livery

10 is in TV, turbo and OMO mirror Maidenhead Platform 1?

Sorry - neither of those is correct.   I don't think (9) *is* Scotrail livery ... the train certainly wasn't running a Scotrail service

having just realised that we are not necessaily operating in FGW-land and that scotland is a possibility, I can say fairly confidently that No 11 is a pier of the Forth Bridge.

[quote author=grahame link=topic=5982.msg58896#msg58896 date=1262706135

Sorry - neither of those is correct.   I don't think (9) *is* Scotrail livery ... the train certainly wasn't running a Scotrail service
[/quote]

I think it is a Transpennine Express livery (from the pre-First days), which would make Newcastle or York possibilities but the roof just doesn't seem right or it could be a TPE station I haven't been too like Hull or Huddersfield?

is no. 7 Trowbridge?  It does have a modernish building like that (in a similar brown style to platform 1 of Didcot IIRC)

It is indeed, at South Queensferry.  Of the twelve pictures we started with, 9 are within what I would describe as "FGW-land"; the question stated that they're all in "Great Britain" so I have not included any of the pictures I took in Northern Ireland last year  ;)

Yes, it is!

It could well be TransPennine colours ... but do remember that you could catch trains in TransPennine colours from Dilton Marsh for a while.  (By the way - it's none of the places you mentioned, nor particularly close to them, nor is it Dilton Marsh  ;) )

The livery on the 158 in picture 9 looks like an old TransPennine scheme with the addition of the old Central Trains stylised 'C'.

I'm still stumped as to the location though!

6. Is this a section of line between Frome and Radstock, beyond the junction for Whatley Quarry?

Ah ... those 158s get all over the place, don't they?

When I posted No. 9, I thought "this is going to be surprisingly difficult for a big station" ... I'm fully expecting No. 6 to be the last to go; sorry - it's not Frome / Radstock, but there is certainly talk of putting trains back on it ...

Wild guess - but Liverpool Lime Street?

Trans Penine go from there and that could be one of the non gated platforms

And I know they do use those barriers (or used to) to corrall the football crowds

Also those buildings behind look amazingly familiar....

No ... but I *think* that train could have been headed for Lime Street ...

Maybe Crewe then for 9?

Sorry ...l-o-n-g way off ... we're down to the hard ones now  ;D

Norwich...?

It looks like quite a distinctive station roof, but definitely not one that I recognize so I'm just guessing.

BTW, and just for a bit of "happy new year"-style pedantry, the livery isn't Transpennine, it's the original maroon "Northern Spirit" livery with the big gold "N". Arriva (when they opearted Arriva TRains Northern) never did much in the way of repainting but TPEx applied the navy-blue vinyl strip on the lower half of the body sides.

In that case I'd guess at Manchester piccadilly - also has that sort of roof

6 - Winslow or thereabouts? ???

Ah but the maroon sets did have 'transpenninexpress' written on them, so, back atcha pedentry. TPE was a sub-brand of Northern Spirit then Arriva Trains Northern.

Having looked a bit closer at pic 9 (not easy!) It appears that a maroon panel has been added under the window line cutting off the lower half of the gold 'N'. I suspect that on this maroon panel will be the words 'East Midlands Trains' Will that help with the location grahame?

I fall on my sword...  :-[

However blakey I concur with your guess of Norwich for pic 9.

Yes, you're right ... it's Norwich!


Welcome to the forum, trainbus and - gosh, I'm sorry - it's not on the Oxford / Cambridge.   Good guess if you've seen my pictures / posts from than line too ....

So that leaves ....


(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_06.jpg) 6 (hard one, this ...)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/xm12_10.jpg) 10 (I'm surprised this one hasn't gone!)

Well I can't see that anyone has tried the Portishead branch for No 6,  so I'll give that a go. Though I'm not optimistic as you say it's hard, and Portishead is too obvious.

Hang on a minute...10 looks like it could be the north end of the down platform at Oxford...

Edit:

Second thoughts, scratch that. Oxford doesn't have a DOO mirror like this platform seems to.

Neither Portishead nor Oxford ... sorry about that  ;D

I had thought myself but after getting it wrong twice.....

Number 6 is a tricky one - it's the Stoke-on-Trent to Leek line ... Photographed, April, 2007

http://www.churnet-valley-railway.co.uk/mcr/index.htm
http://www.wellho.net/share/evenyetmore.html
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gallery/dismantled_disused_derelict_and_mothballed_ex_railways_6461

And for No. 10 try the Berks and Hants ...

Once no. 10 is guessed can we see larger versions of the pictures grahame? I hava a particular anal interest in the Class 158 unit at Norwich..... ;D

Oh goodness ... I'll have to search around again ... but I'll see what I can do with the Norwich stuff

Norwich set:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/norst1.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/norst2.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/norst3.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/norst4.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/norst5.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/norst6.jpg)

Now you point it out 6 is obvious.

Know it well from the Caldon Canal (in my opinion the prettiest canal in England) where the line runs parrallel and crosses the canal in a couple of places. Is this taken from the canal bridge on the Leek branch?

Considerably less greenage from when I last saw it.

Like Norwich pictures. Weren't you cahsed off ?

Well I was partly right saying 10 was TV the DOO mirror and 166 being the clue, but seems it really Kennet Valley but still OMO 166s.

I'm going to give you number 10 and close the Christmas Quiz ... it's at H......























Hungerford!

Believe it or not, Graham, I was going to suggest Hungerford last night. Honestly! I even had Google Earth loaded to try and confirm my suspicions! Then something else must have distracted me...

Anyway, many thanks for a thought provoking Xmas quiz.

My pleasure ... it was good fun for me too.