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All across the Great Western territory => The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom => Topic started by: Tim on January 14, 2010, 13:23:16



Title: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Tim on January 14, 2010, 13:23:16
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8456816.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8456816.stm)
A sensitive and interesting report on the issue by the BBC.  NR is to be congratulated to their efforts to tackle the issue. 

I was interested to note that the move to selling paracetemols in smaller boxes did lead to fewer suicides.  This was one of the issues raised in a discussion last year http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=5479.30 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=5479.30)

Ollie suggested that "those who want to kill temselves will find a way" which on the face of it is a commonly held and reasonable view, but the evidence seems to suggest otherwise.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: JayMac on January 14, 2010, 15:50:21
From the BBC: (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8456816.stm)


Quote
Any suicide is tragic, but the 200 a year that happen on the railways are particularly shocking. The first national strategy in dealing with them hopes to cut the number by a fifth. But can people who want to end their own lives in this way really be helped?

It was morning rush-hour, so the platform was busy and Penny was one of many people waiting for the Edinburgh train.

As the Intercity 125 drew into the station, she jumped in front of it.

"It's strange, but it was as if I went into it," she says, recalling those moments 14 years ago. "It all went black and I remember waking up underneath it.

"It was dark and I thought 'Is this it? Am I dead?' Then I heard a Tannoy and some voices, and I could feel diesel dripping on my face.

"I don't remember anything else, I had passed out and I came round in hospital. But when I did, there was no relief. I thought: 'I can't even do that right.'"

Penny had escaped major injury, apart from five stitches on the back of her head, because she had fallen entirely beneath the train.

Her state of mind that day was divorced from reality, she says. She had a husband she loved, whom she had said goodbye to in the normal way. But work-related stress and the loss of her grandmother had induced her third mental breakdown in 10 years.

"I can see the train coming, clear as day," she says, thinking back to the day she tried to take her life. "But how I got there I don't know. It's almost like I was in a trance.

"I already thought I was dead and I thought I wanted to see my gran. Even talking about it now, I'm thinking it sounds odd."

'No way back'

Unlike other ways that people choose to end their own life, railway suicides endanger and traumatise other people, notably train drivers and railway staff. But to condemn it as "selfish", as some do, annoys Penny, who asked for her real name not to be used.

"They just don't understand. You don't wake up one morning and say: 'Today, I'm going to do that' They are ill. People who choose this method, it's not a cry for help, they've reached the absolute bottom.

"Part of me somewhere thought that it's a sure-fire method. Usually there's no coming back."

For the rail industry, suicides are a commercial headache. Network Rail has to compensate train operating companies for delays and it estimates that suicides cost it ^15m a year in this respect. In partnership with the Samaritans, it has invested ^5m in the country's first national programme in trying to address it.

The money will be spent on a number of measures, including training railway staff in how to spot people on platforms who may be contemplating suicide and how to talk to them.

There will also be guidance to the media about reporting incidents in a way that does not prompt copy-cat attempts. For instance, giving too much information about a victim can lead others to identify with him or her.

"There are about 200 suicides per year on the railways," says Rachel Kirby-Rider of the Samaritans. "But in terms of the cost and emotional impact, it's much higher for suicides on the railways than other forms of suicide, because of the effect on witnesses. All suicides are tragic but some train drivers never go back to work afterwards.

"Many people come across suicides on the railway and get very frustrated because they can't get to their meeting because the train is delayed, but there's a lack of understanding why the person has taken their own life."

More research is needed into why people would choose this method above others, say Ms Kirby-Rider, but the common profile is middle-aged men who are unemployed or struggling financially, she says. And there are more incidents in areas of social deprivation.

She believes that if people thinking about throwing themselves under a train can get to the Samaritans - maybe referred by a vigilant member of rail staff or because a poster on a platform tells them that help is available - then their chances of recovery are greatly increased.

Reducing opportunities for people to take their own life can dissuade them from doing so, she says. Specific measures in prisons and psychiatric services have helped to bring the national suicide rate down, although it increased last year, perhaps due to the economic difficulties.

Limiting the number of aspirins available in a packet to 16, in 1998, led to a fall in fatal overdoses by a fifth in the following year.
 
And according to one study, there was a fall in suicide by car exhaust asphyxiation in all age and gender groups, a trend most marked after 1993, when catalytic converters reduced the toxicity of exhaust fumes. "This shows that measures can be taken," says Ms Kirby-Rider. "What we are planning won't eradicate railway suicides but we are hoping for a 20% reduction in five years."

So why do some people choose to end their life in this way?

Railway suicide is a violent method of choice, especially for younger men, who falsely believe that it is a fast, painless, foolproof way to end one's life, says psychotherapist and counselling psychologist Prof Emmy van Deurzen.

"They often get this wrong idea from media reports or fiction and there is higher incidence of railway suicides after a case has been publicised or fictionalised.

"There is a 10% survival rate of these attempts, which though low, is still considerable, especially since it usually leads to severe and incapacitating injuries."

There is very little research on the motivations and states of mind of those who have not succeeded or those who have contemplated killing themselves in this way, she says.

"The daredevil and violent element of railway suicide may appeal to people who feel desperate about their life, because it conjures up an illusion of control and self assertion.

"Even the idea of having an impact on rail transport and the routines of others may be somewhat appealing and may involve a fantasy of revenge on society.

"Those who have contemplated killing themselves in this way mention awareness of the potential long-term damage to others as a factor in stopping them."

This suggests we need better research, both on people's motivations for choosing this method of suicide and on the reasons for which they ultimately abandon the idea, she says. This would help us providing better support to these people and to prevent more of these catastrophic suicides.
 
Penny's experience shows that people who have hit rock bottom can still fully recover, and she thinks the best way to tackle the problem would be to chip away at the stigma of mental illness, so people would be more likely to seek help.

After being pulled out from under the train, she was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder and spent two months in hospital for her mental illness.

She never returned to her old workplace and the birth of her first child three years later was a major step on the road to recovery. This happy, confident woman bears no resemblance to the figure on the railway platform all those years ago.

"Now I've turned my life around and have two great kids and a happy marriage. I'm horrified now, thinking about it, because I loved my husband and my parents."



Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 14, 2010, 21:53:09
I've merged these topics, as they both refer to the same BBC magazine article.  Chris.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: bobm on June 17, 2011, 17:29:06
According to the BBC the number of suicides is down by over a tenth across the country in the last year.

Not sure there is much evidence of it on FGW. If anything the national fall must mean there is now an even greater proportion of them on the line from Paddington to Reading.

Quote
Rail network suicides 'down 11%'

The number of suicides on Britain's rail network has dropped by 11% in the past year, according to figures from the Rail Safety and Standards Board.

They showed 207 deaths in the year from April 2010, down from 233 in the previous 12 months.

The rail authority said extra training for staff provided by the Samaritans had been a key factor in the reduction.

Last year, Network Rail set a target to reduce the number of suicides by 20% within five years.

"We know that rail staff who have undertaken the Samaritans' training programme have already been able to intervene in potential suicides," said David Higgins, chief executive of Network Rail, who own and operate Britain's rail structure.

"Each suicide is a tragedy for the individuals and families involved, as well as having an inevitable impact on rail staff and passengers."

The ^5m investment in suicide prevention has seen 1,000 staff at 220 locations receive specialist training.

As part of the campaign, Samaritans has interviewed staff members affected by suicides, as well as experts on dealing with trauma.

Rail workers are taught how to identify people potentially at risk, before approaching them and offering emotional support services.

The training also deals with emotional trauma for drivers who have been involved in a death, many of whom suffer from flashbacks and sleeplessness after the incident.

Members of the general public who have witnessed a suicide can also take advantage of help from the Samaritans who offer face-to-face advice and a helpline.

In addition, media companies have been given guidance over how to report suicides in order to prevent copycat deaths.

An awareness campaign has sought to target those typically most prone to suicide attempts.

Nearly 80% of rail suicides involve men, with "working-class men" in their 30s, 40s and 50s statistically most at risk, the Samaritans said.

Prominent advertising and poster campaigns around stations have been aimed at these groups.

"We are pleased to see that, within the first year of delivering the project we already have examples of staff being able to intervene in potentially tragic situations," said Rachel Kirby-Rider, director of fundraising and communications at the Samaritans.

"Whilst the latest railway suicide figures are promising, the next few years could see rising unemployment and an increase in financial worries which may negatively impact on the nation's wellbeing," she said.

"We cannot afford to be complacent and that is why this programme of work shows our commitment to ensuring the figures decline year on year."


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Ollie on June 17, 2011, 23:20:53
FGW and SWT have had a fair few just this period alone..


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: ChrisB on June 18, 2011, 07:52:09
So the next set of stats might show a rise, unfortunately.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: JayMac on January 13, 2012, 12:48:43
From the RSSB (Rail Safety and Standards Board) Community newsletter December 2011. (http://www.rssb.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/national_programmes/newsletters/2011/december/7.html)

Quote
The rail industry has launched the Joint Suicide Prevention plan (JSSP), drawn up by Network Rail and approved by the National Suicide Prevention Group in September 2011.

It pulls together best practice across the rail network and demonstrates how everyone has a role to play in suicide prevention. It provides a strategic approach for train operators to engage with the partnership and help the overall National Suicide Reduction project achieve its objectives. The document outlines an action plan for how Network Rail, a train operator and Samaritans can work more efficiently to reduce the number of suicides on the Network Rail routes by setting out a minimum number of requirements to which train operators at the highest level will commit.

The plan forms part of the National Suicide Prevention Programme - a five year project, led jointly by Samaritans and Network Rail.

The primary aim of the programme is to reduce suicides on the railways through a range of interventions including communication campaigns, industry staff training, work with the media, community outreach and lobbying for more physical barriers at railway locations. The programme of work is a blend of prevention and post incident initiatives which are taking place across the UK with an overall aim of reducing the number of railway suicides annually by 20% by 2015.

The overall programme has recently scooped a number of awards.
In late September, the joint venture won in the 'Corporate Partnership' category at the Third Sector Excellence Awards. Following this, the Samaritans collaboration with Network Rail was recognised by the transport industry as winners in the 'Best National Partnership' category at the National Transport Awards and then on the 12 October 2011, the partnership received the corporate national partnership of the year award at the Charity Times Awards.

The partnership features a programme of prevention and post-incident activities. This includes:

-Bespoke training of railway industry staff and British Transport Police to identify individuals in distress at railway locations.
-Trauma support training tailored specifically to the needs of those supporting train drivers or others following a suicide, such as Train Driver Managers and ASLEF Union Reps.
-Support to rail staff, train crews and members of the public who have witnessed a fatality.
-The development of a local branch call-out service to provide face to face emotional support to people in distress at railway sites.

For more information or if you would like to receive an electronic copy of the template JSSP please contact Ola Rzepczynska, Network Rail Project Officer: o.rzepczynska@samaritans.org


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: ChrisB on January 13, 2012, 13:52:24
Hope the rail industry are putting their hands in their pockets in supporting the Sams work for this.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: JayMac on January 13, 2012, 14:37:45
I was led to the article on the RSSB website by an item in RAIL issue 686.

Their regular feature, "A day in the life of..." was an interview with an East Midlands Trains driver who had experienced a fatality when someone committed suicide in front of his train.

Following counselling he got involved with the Samaritans and Network Rail's Joint Suicide Prevention Plan.

Sobering reading.  :(


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: BerkshireBugsy on January 13, 2012, 15:11:22
I was led to the article on the RSSB website by an item in RAIL issue 686.

Their regular feature, "A day in the life of..." was an interview with an East Midlands Trains driver who had experienced a fatality when someone committed suicide in front of his train.

Following counselling he got involved with the Samaritans and Network Rail's Joint Suicide Prevention Plan.

Sobering reading.  :(

I wish this initiative well and hope that it makes a difference. When I hear of this on the news or experience delays first hand my heart goes out to those affected by such and event.

I can not begin to understand what it must be like for a driver to experience such an incident and commend the East Midlands train driver for taking the initiative he did.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 17, 2012, 20:34:52
From the Bath Chronicle (http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/Initiative-aims-reduce-rail-suicides/story-16109593-detail/story.html):

Quote
Railway staff in Bath are working with the Samaritans to reduce the number of suicides on the tracks.

Across the country more than 1,000 rail staff have received training on how to identify people who are intending to commit suicide.

The training programme, run by the Samaritans and Network Rail, aims to make staff aware and to reduce railway suicides by 20 per cent over five years.

It also aims to support drivers after a trauma and offer counselling to people intending to commit suicide.

Members of the Bath branch of the charity will be at the station on Wednesday and Saturday for Mental Health Awareness Week.

Network Rail chief executive David Higgins said: "We know that rail staff who have undertaken Samaritans' training programme have already been able to intervene in potential suicides. Each suicide is a tragedy for the individuals and families involved, as well as having an inevitable impact on rail staff and passengers. It is encouraging that the rail industry is pulling together to work with Samaritans who have provided a responsive and professional service to our staff."

The five-year training programme includes helping staff to encourage people away from danger, supporting drivers after a trauma, and looking after witnesses.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: johngreg on May 18, 2012, 18:14:43
An interesting approach. Funded by Network rail?


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 19, 2012, 21:55:04
Probably - at least partly?  I'm trying to find out more details. :-\


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Ollie on May 19, 2012, 22:38:58
^5million from NR according to this: http://www.thirdsector.co.uk/news/976000/Samaritans-forges-5m-link-Network-Rail-prevent-railway-suicides/


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 19, 2012, 22:45:48
There you are, then: thanks very much for that confirmation, Ollie!  ;) :D ;D


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: TonyK on May 19, 2012, 23:43:44
^5million from NR according to this: http://www.thirdsector.co.uk/news/976000/Samaritans-forges-5m-link-Network-Rail-prevent-railway-suicides/

Apart from the human side of this, it must make sound commercial sense.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 27, 2012, 19:40:17
A video news report, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20507106):

Quote
Samaritans train rail staff in lifesaving skills

The BBC has been given exclusive access to a course where the Samaritans are training rail staff to help save lives.

More than 230 people took their own life on Britain's railways last year - the highest number for 10 years.

The BBC's transport correspondent Richard Westcott reports.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: eightf48544 on November 28, 2012, 08:17:54
I too wish the initiative well. Let's hope ut reduces the number 230 is one every roughly every 40 hours. A sobering thought.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Red Squirrel on August 18, 2013, 19:31:41
It can be remarkably easy to have a big impact in this area. Many years ago the trustees of Clifton Suspension Bridge, concerned as well they might be by the number of people jumping off the bridge, had a single strand of wire installed running about 20cm above the handrail. The number of suiciders was reduced considerably, I believe, and the explanation appears to be that it made it just a bit harder to hop over the rail. The other feature visitors to the Suspension Bridge will notice is large signs giving details of how to contact the Samaritians.

The 'Rail News' aggregator on this site has really opened my eyes to the number of people who choose to end it all under a train, and the social and economic damage that it causes. How much would it cost, I wonder, to equip every medium and high-risk crossing point in Britain with a set of 'Samaritians' signs? And how much could potentially be saved?


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Lee on September 07, 2013, 07:27:54
From The Guardian: (http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/sep/06/train-stations-rail-suicides)

Quote from: The Guardian
Train stations set for changes in drive to cut rail suicides

Measures being introduced or considered include extra fencing between platforms, 'trespass bollards' and closer monitoring

Train passengers are about to see the biggest changes in station design for years, and will have their behaviour monitored more closely, as part of a drive to cut suicides on the railways, which last year numbered 238.

Extra fencing, removal of seats from the ends of platforms, more no-go areas painted with yellow cross-hatching, and "trespass bollards" where the interruption of infrared beams sets off alarms will be among the most visible alterations.

Less obvious may be the use of smart cameras programmed to identify unusual behaviour, already being trialled at one busy station, and sensor lighting for dark areas. Network Rail is also considering whether tracking people's movements via mobile phone signals would help to alert control rooms to potential incidents.

Nearly 5,000 rail staff have been on courses developed by the Samaritans to help them identify and approach potentially suicidal people. The charity also provides trauma support for train and railway workers.

The introduction of fencing to separate platforms for fast through trains from those for stopping services has started, with stations between Reading and London Paddington and Milton Keynes and Euston the first affected.

Other moves designed to provide psychological disincentives are on the way, as are station watch schemes along on the lines of neighbourhood watch anti-crime groups.

Posters advertising the Samaritans and dedicated telephones at stations have already been introduced. The removal of 700 level crossings over the past three years has helped cut easy access to tracks. For the first time, railways are recording suicide attempts that staff action or other interventions have prevented. There are thought to have been at least 50 in the past year.

Network Rail says the partnership ^ also involving British Transport police, train operating companies, and rail safety advisers ^ has helped keep annual suicide numbers static at 238 in each of the past two years. Disruption to train services, which costs about ^33m a year according to Network Rail, has fallen by nearly a quarter in 12 months, and total delays due to suicide attempts have fallen from more than 6,500 hours to under 5,000.

Training police officers who respond to fatal incidents to undertake initial crime scene tasks has helped cut the time for dealing with unexplained deaths on the railways by a third, to 84 minutes, a process helped by dedicated phone lines from train cabs allowing drivers to give initial descriptions of incidents.

Neil Henry, Network Rail's head of performance and operations, said: "From a purely economic point of view, there is a very strong business case which we don't deny. But there is certainly, too, a moral obligation, we feel, to do everything we can."

Trials of new measures were encouraging, he said. "You programme cameras, for example, to focus on somebody who has been in the same location for a long time, has been on a station for a long time, perhaps has been there when a train has come in and not got on ^ It will then alert people that have you have got somebody here that is acting out of the ordinary," said Henry.

The fencing along the middle of platforms was "not necessarily that difficult to get over but it is a barrier that may just change people's minds. There is evidence to suggest it does."

Henry said although the partnerships with the Samaritans had been in place for nearly three years, an industry conference on the issue in June had proved a turning point. "There was this noise going round that actually there is not much we can do, other than to restore the railways to normal working as quickly as possible. To prevent someone who is intent on taking their own life is too difficult. It was quite important to say some [suicide attempts] are preventable, we can really make a difference here."

Railways in other countries, including Denmark, the Netherlands, Australia and Canada, are looking at the UK's progress. Rail suicides make up less than 4% of the UK total: there were 6,045 suicides in all in the UK in 2011, the highest total since 2004.

Police crime scene examiners normally attend unexplained or suspicious deaths, but 55 response officers in more remote areas have been equipped with forensic suits, cameras, swab kits and sterile evidence bags and have been trained to carry out body recovery and initial investigations. Coroners have been encouraged to standardise their procedures. "We ensure the respect due to the deceased but minimise disruption to the wider railway network", said chief inspector Tom Naughton, the officer leading the strategy.

Initial interviews with drivers were not "overly oppressive" or formal, he said, but together with other information gained from the scene, including an initial search of the body, could speed up investigations that were reviewed carefully later.

A pilot scheme in London is bringing in health professionals to police custody suites to assess those in mental distress, said Naughton. "If someone is on the railway and they are obviously trespassing, putting themselves in danger, our priority is to get them into a place of safety. We don't want people criminalised if they are in need of medical aid."

Rachel Kirby-Rider, executive director of fundraising and communications at Samaritans, called the developments "an outstanding example of co-operation between industry and the charity sector". The charity's research indicates that men in their 30-50s from disadvantaged backgrounds are at highest risk of dying by suicide, including on railways, and it is working with journalists to reduce "copycat" suicides though more responsible reporting.

"We are doing everything we can to let people know that anyone can call Samaritans at any time," she said. The Samaritans' 24-hour helpline is 08457 909090.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: bobm on September 07, 2013, 07:51:52
Anything which reduces the number of fatalities on the railway is to be welcomed.

However the majority of incidents reported on here seem to be on stretches of line away from stations and I fear the trend for that will increase if stations are looked at as the article suggests.

I am not saying that is a case for not doing the work, but as it is not possible to make the railway secure from end to end people who are so desperate to end it all will sadly find another part of the railway to go to.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Electric train on September 07, 2013, 08:20:21
Anything which reduces the number of fatalities on the railway is to be welcomed.

However the majority of incidents reported on here seem to be on stretches of line away from stations and I fear the trend for that will increase if stations are looked at as the article suggests.

I am not saying that is a case for not doing the work, but as it is not possible to make the railway secure from end to end people who are so desperate to end it all will sadly find another part of the railway to go to.
I agree Bob that people intent on committing suicide will find a way, however the measures outlined in the article can only help as a deterrent, also at stations Like Hayes & Harlington, Southall etc which have narrow platforms these fences can only help with the general safety of passengers; it is a shame the removal of seating at remote ends of platforms is a necessary measure as there are many people who enjoy sitting there watching the world go by.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Phil on September 07, 2013, 09:49:23
I look forward to the introduction of these measures at Melksham. Quite frankly, any investment is welcome - although the removal of seating from the end of the platform is unfortunately likely to result in the removal of the only seat there is. On the positive side though, the introduction of a separate platform for through trains is definitely going to be a major improvement.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: ChrisB on September 08, 2013, 12:34:10
I'm sure the suicidal are really going to avoid cross-hatched areas.....waste of money.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Electric train on September 08, 2013, 13:59:46
I'm sure the suicidal are really going to avoid cross-hatched areas.....waste of money.

I am sure that NR have been taking advice from Samaritans they have a great deal of understanding of the psychology of suicidal people, it could be that something as simple as yellow hatched lines acts as a deterrent.

Then again the hatching might just be for the benefit of the non suicidal, to warn the normal passenger that space is a bit tight go stand somewhere else. 


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Lee on September 11, 2013, 11:08:53
"A decade of data" article from The Guardian. (http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/sep/11/uk-rail-suicides-decade-data)


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Oxman on November 25, 2013, 16:09:10
BBC has done a report that looks at suicides on the railway and gives an example of the effectiveness of this initiative:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25036838

Too long to quote. It is a trail for a radio programme being broadcast this evening:

"Listen to BBC Radio 5 live: Life on the Line at 10:00 GMT on Monday 25 November and 21:00 GMT on Sunday 1 December, or catch it later on iPlayer."


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: stebbo on November 28, 2013, 14:04:37
I fully agree that this is most sobering. What torment must go through the victim's mind and the utter horror experienced by the train driver - awful. Not forgetting that train drivers can get killed or injured especially at level crossings

But I also noticed that Network Rail gets fined for the delays caused by each incident which seems beyond the pail so there is another side to this coin. I agree that in some cases a suicide might be prevented by better fencing and the like but you can't keep people out of stations; and you can see from other threads on this site what can happen on crossings where people are meant to be on the railway, albeit for a short time.

I understand that NR is meant to be responsible for the track and signalling but why do they get punished as a result of these most distressing episodes. It just seems warped.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: stuving on November 28, 2013, 15:43:33
I understand that NR is meant to be responsible for the track and signalling but why do they get punished as a result of these most distressing episodes. It just seems warped.

It's nothing to do with punishment. There is a cost to be paid by someone, both for the disruption and (e.g. if a vehicle is involved) for track repairs. It's just a lot easier to keep the same system as for an infrastructure failure, so NR pay rather than TOCs or passengers - who would probably not understand if it was different. NR then budget for the cost, which will presumably end up being paid for in fares via track access charges anyway. I'm not sure who pays for damage to trains.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: stebbo on November 29, 2013, 10:42:31
I understand. I just find it rather warped.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Network SouthEast on November 29, 2013, 12:14:13
But I also noticed that Network Rail gets fined for the delays caused by each incident which seems beyond the pail so there is another side to this coin. I agree that in some cases a suicide might be prevented by better fencing and the like but you can't keep people out of stations; and you can see from other threads on this site what can happen on crossings where people are meant to be on the railway, albeit for a short time.
Not quite 100% - TOCs pay the delay penalties if a fatality happens at a station. That's why we are now seeing little used main platforms fenced off during the day and security staff on the up main platform at Ealing Broadway.

The Samaritans point out that whilst there is no such thing as 100% suicide prevention, you can make little changes that have a significant reduction. Their own research notes the impact limiting the sale of paracetamol had, along with the change of ovens from coal gas to natural gas as a couple of examples.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: stuving on November 29, 2013, 12:27:35
Not quite 100% - TOCs pay the delay penalties if a fatality happens at a station. That's why we are now seeing little used main platforms fenced off during the day and security staff on the up main platform at Ealing Broadway.

Good point - I was thinking of level crossings, really. It's the same basic principle: bringing together budgets for the costs after the event and and for spending that reduces the number of such events. This reduces what they call "perverse incentives".

That's not to downplay the other, more important costs that's aren't measured in money (and which justify things like level crossing closures above anything strictly financial).


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: John R on September 25, 2014, 22:46:48
I'm starting this as a general thread, rather than one connected to a particular incident.

We've seen over the last few days a tragic number of fatalities on the railways. Around 250 people die each year in railway related suicides, out of around 6,000 suspected suicides nationally.  Each one, as well as resulting in the tragic death of a person and grief for the family, results in trauma for the railway staff involved, much delay and disruption, and thus cost to the industry.

It could be argued that if we could somehow find a "wonder prevention" then those intent on ending their life would simply find another way. I'm sure there's an element of truth in this, and maybe the reduction in paracetamol related suicides means that some of these have gone on to other, more physically violent deaths, such as the railways. But it didn't mean that it wasn't the right thing to do to restrict sales of paracetamol to smaller packets.

But if we could find a wonder prevention then it would at least spare the railways and its staff from the trauma involved, and can only result in an overall reduction in deaths.

So, what to do?  I don't have any stats, but stations do seem a particularly vulnerable spot. There's been some attempt to fence off little used platforms, but what else could be done? Platform edge doors appear impractical unless the only services to use them are all identical, and we've seen the cost of installing them at just 7 Crossrail stations.  However, could some type of platform screen be installed around 1 - 2m from the edge, which only open when a train is pulling in. The placing would not need to be so precise. Would probably need a station to be manned though, could increase dwell times and result in crowding on platforms.

Outside the station, it seems almost impossible to fence off the entire network, but could a system of lasers detect when someone is adjacent to the trackside and result in a warning to the signalling centre. Would have to be clever enough to distinguish between a person and a bird or fox breaking the beam, but I'm sure that's possible.  Maybe in this day and age solar powered cameras could be installed so that in the event of an alarm from the laser system, the signaller could have a look to ensure it isn't a false alarm. Again, wouldn't stop someone who suddenly rushed onto the track just before a train, but could catch many who linger waiting for the next train to arrive.

And finally, what about the trains themselves?  Should trains have a device similar to a snowplough at rail level and some massive airbags which are automatically discharged if a human shape is detected in front of the train. It seems far fetched, but I guess 50 years ago we'd never even heard of airbags.

This would all be massively expensive, and maybe for trains only possible on new stock. But as an industry, hundreds of millions have been spent in improving safety for the onboard passenger, which has reduced the average number of deaths per year from maybe 3 or 4 to close to 0, yet 250 people a year are still dying on the railways each year, and I think the industry needs to regard this as one of its biggest problems.

Note that I've made the assumption for simplicity that these are suicides. In some cases they may not be, or it will never be known, but the fact remains that someone dies on the railway.  Neither am I passing judgement on those who are involved - for them, and their families it is a tragedy, and one that we should try to prevent.



 



Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: grahame on September 25, 2014, 23:04:20
A valid discussion, I think, John ... although it may get moved to our "Frequent Posters" area from the public visible forum area should it take certain directions.

I have to agree with John that to a degree we're hypocritical - looking at a very very low passenger casualty rate and congratulating ourselves, yet giving far less attention to a death that happens on most days on the railways.  I saw comment that the USA casualty rate in this mode is much lower, and I wonder how it's measured.   I also wonder if there is some correlation between the lack of railroad fencing in much of the USA, and / or between the easy availability of firearms to people who have lost the will to live.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: chuffed on September 26, 2014, 00:59:45
A very valid discussion and very sensitively raised by John R. It is something of a cliche to say if 'measures x y z prevent one poor soul from ending their life this way, it will have been worth it '. But, at what price ? How much will be  'enough'  and cue the inevitable outcry when these measures are found wanting. Is it solved by throwing yet more money at it ? A huge conundrum.
Graham you are quite right to draw attention to the dichotomy between fatalities on board today's trains and those occurring on the tracks. Are we patting ourselves on our backs about the former, and beating ourselves up about the latter ?


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 26, 2014, 09:07:12
The Samaritans and NR have been working on this for a couple of years; details of their partnership are here: http://www.samaritans.org/your-community/saving-lives-railway

Perhaps of particular relevance to this forum are these, the Samaritans' media guidelines: http://www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-reporting-suicide



Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: ChrisB on September 26, 2014, 09:15:44
Money no object - platform doors like the new tube platforms. May need extra doors/sensors if different stock=different lengths=different door placements, but as I said, this is money no object.

Just about the only guaranteed way to prevent suicides from stations.

But most would simply find an access elsewhere, so I'm not sure there is a physical solution.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: broadgage on September 26, 2014, 09:20:35
I fear that suicide by train is increasing in popularity as other methods become less available, not only are dangerous medicines sold in smaller pack sizes, but the replacement of coal gas by natural gas has eliminated gas poisoning.

I can remember reading of suicide by illegally held hand guns, very often war trophies that had been improperly retained after world war 2. As the years go by more of these weapons are discovered, usually on the unrelated death of the owner, and are handed in to the police.

Modern electrical installations are increasingly protected by RCDs making suicide by electrocution unreliable.

And of course whilst trains are neither as quick nor as frequent as many customers would like, there has been a general  increase in both speed and frequency at many locations.

The above points help explain the scale of the problem, but of course do nothing to prevent or reduce it.

The O/P makes a number of suggestions that might be worth further investigation or trial.

In addition I feel that all trains should be equipped with forward facing cameras, and that the recordings should be made promptly available to the police. This wont stop suicides, but should allow quicker re-opening of the line.
Police investigations can be protracted in order to make certain that an APPARENT suicide was not in fact a murder.
Prompt expert viewing of the recording would help investigations.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: chrisr_75 on September 26, 2014, 09:28:51
After the fatality in S.Wales this week, I was thinking about why a particular section of railway in S.Wales seems to suffer so much and have some thoeries as to why it seems to be a fatality hotspot, but will save these for a private forum as I would not like to give anyone who was half considering something any ideas...

Ultimately a lot of the suicides can probably be dealt with long before they become suicides if the general attitude towards mental health issues in this country changes and there is less taboo surrounding the problems that do affect us all to some degree at some point in our lives. Some people cope better than others, and those who suffer most should have easy access to proper help. Ideally, it should feel no worse going to your healthcare provider with a mental health problem than it does if you have a chest infection or something.

The trespasser deaths (and many level crossing accidents) are caused primarly by ignorance and I'm not sure you can do an awful lot about that!


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Electric train on September 26, 2014, 09:42:03
Suicides on the railways grab the headlines because when they happen it effects a lot of people when trains are delayed but there are a lot of attempt suicides and actual suicides that don't get a wider press coverage  I believe it is more a question wider that the society needs to address.

The installation of "Fast Line Fencing" and to cross hatch areas of platforms is a result of the work NR and Samaritans which got funding from DfT and is reducing the number of suicides.



Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: grahame on September 26, 2014, 10:16:58
From time to time, I have to compile and build software that someone else has written from source, and sometimes that compile and build "dies" on me with some sort of error message about one particular line / file / statement. But I have learned over the years not to take a look at the immediate error message, but to note that the software has been built correctly by many other people in the past, and take a wider view / look to see what the issues were that lead to the build dying.  It may be something missed from an environment setting, it may be the absence of another piece of software (a dependency).    Fixing the immediate problem usually leads to a further problem a few lines later, whereas taking a wider look and fixing environments and dependencies - more work though it may be before I try to build again - usually leads to permanent results.

Perhaps there are parallels to be drawn?  Do we have any figures for the effectiveness of immediate and wider measures so that we can see the best way to reduce the number of my builds that dies, or the number of people who die at their own hand under trains?


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: a-driver on September 26, 2014, 10:38:01
I think you can provide deterrents to those considering committing suicide on the railway like the platform fencing but you will never completely prevent it.  Unfortunately a persons decision to commit suicide is made long before they arrive at a railway station or specific location and a lot are the result of the person suffering depression. I know the Samaritans have posters up at 'hotspots' but, like I said, the decision is made long before someone sees those posters.   
Anyone intent on accessing the railway though, will be able to do it with ease, it is not possible to completely prevent access.  I'm not going to be specific on types of locations but there's plenty and believe it or not, there's apparently websites detailing these locations.
There must however be statistics out there which highlight those who are most vulnerable based on age, gender, ethnic origin etc.  There's always been a suggestion, and I stress I've not seen anything of fact to back this up, but arranged marriages are a root cause and that's why we have a higher number in certain locations. But those statistics surely can be used within communities so funding and help can be used to address these issues

What certainly needs to change though is the attitude towards the support and treatment of people suffering severe depression.  Anyone on the railway knows there are specific times of the year when the number of fatalities on the railway increases

   


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 26, 2014, 11:02:19
...the decision is made long before someone sees those posters.     

My understanding is that the Samaritans' signs at Clifton Suspension Bridge, along with some other fairly 'light touch' measures there, have been quite effective in reducing the number of suicides. Few people are truly determined to end it all, and those that are are more likely to do so in a private rather than a public place.

I think it is right to focus on hotspots, and to find ways of identifying victims (for victims they truly are) while they can still be helped.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: phile on September 26, 2014, 11:17:24
After the fatality in S.Wales this week, I was thinking about why a particular section of railway in S.Wales seems to suffer so much and have some thoeries as to why it seems to be a fatality hotspot, but will save these for a private forum as I would not like to give anyone who was half considering something any ideas...

Ultimately a lot of the suicides can probably be dealt with long before they become suicides if the general attitude towards mental health issues in this country changes and there is less taboo surrounding the problems that do affect us all to some degree at some point in our lives. Some people cope better than others, and those who suffer most should have easy access to proper help. Ideally, it should feel no worse going to your healthcare provider with a mental health problem than it does if you have a chest infection or something.

The trespasser deaths (and many level crossing accidents) are caused primarly by ignorance and I'm not sure you can do an awful lot about that!

Some of the fatalities along the SWML over a period of time and which have occurred at night have been people(no doubt legless) taking short cuts across the tracks.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: TaplowGreen on September 26, 2014, 12:25:16
Money no object - platform doors like the new tube platforms. May need extra doors/sensors if different stock=different lengths=different door placements, but as I said, this is money no object.

Just about the only guaranteed way to prevent suicides from stations.

But most would simply find an access elsewhere, so I'm not sure there is a physical solution.

Agreed - all the previous posts are sincere and well intentioned however I feel if someone has made up their mind to "end it all" in this way then they will get onto the tracks by some means - it's surprisingly easy to get onto the tracks themselves around my way.

To be honest it's probably more a case of treating the cause (mental illness/depression) rather than the symptoms and helping people beofre they get to such a desparate state.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: sanfrandragon on October 22, 2014, 14:36:25
There was an interesting article in The Times (21/10/14?) saying that blue lighting is being trialled at some stations following some success in Japan, albeit on dubious statistical evidence.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 22, 2014, 15:07:10
Thanks for posting that information, sanfrandragon.  :)

The article on The Times website is only available to subscribers, so I won't quote it here, but the link is http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/science/article4242678.ece


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 24, 2014, 00:05:38
From ITV News (http://www.itv.com/news/2014-10-23/sharp-rise-in-railway-suicides-say-network-rail/):

Quote
Sharp rise in railway suicides, say Network Rail

The number of people who have committed suicide on Britain's railways in the last year has almost reached 300, Network Rail and the Samaritans have warned.

Official figures for 2013-14 how there have already been 279 suicides on the UK's rail network - the highest number on record and up from 246 in the previous year.

Most recently, "loving mother" Rubina Khan 46, died with her son, 10-year-old Amaar, at Slough train station in an apparent murder-suicide.

Rubina had been recently widowed and was believed to have been battling depression when they were hit by an oncoming train. Both died at the scene.

The tragic figures come as British Transport Police and Samaritan volunteers hold a one day conference on suicide prevention.

The Samaritans said railway suicides made up 4.7% of the total number of people who took their own their lives in 2012. However, the charity said the number of railway suicides had risen this year.

The rail Safety and Standards Board revealed there were 29 suspected suicides in August and 28 during July. The monthly average over the past year has been 23.

Network Rail are investing in soothing blue lights at train platforms as a way of keeping customers calm. It is hoped their soothing affect will help stop suicide attempts.

The Samaritans believes that financial pressures caused by the years of economic downturn may also have contributed.

"We have been coming out of a very big recession and the impact of the economic climate is very much being felt," said Ola Rzepczynska, who has been heading a joint suicide prevention plan between the Samaritans and Network Rail.

"The real impacts are being felt in the most recent years," she said.

That last quote is a most unfortunate choice of words.  :-X


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Surrey 455 on October 25, 2014, 10:27:38
There was an interesting article in The Times (21/10/14?) saying that blue lighting is being trialled at some stations following some success in Japan, albeit on dubious statistical evidence.

I read this in The Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/6578256/Blue-lights-installed-in-Tokyo-train-stations-to-stop-suicides.html . I do wonder though if the blue lights are effective in daylight hours which I suspect (I haven't looked at statistics) is when most of these incidents occur.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: a-driver on October 27, 2014, 10:34:46
Slough is apparently going to be one of the stations to trial the blue lighting.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 02, 2015, 00:42:44
From Railway Technology (http://www.railway-technology.com/features/featurepreventing-suicide-at-railway-stations-4627355/):

Quote
Preventing suicide at railway stations

Suicide at railway stations is not an uncommon tragedy, but now, the UK^s Network Rail, together with charities and other support programmes, are testing new technologies at busy train stations in order to avert tragedy before it happens.

Suicide on the tracks is a tragic issue faced by railway operators world over, with some bustling train stations even becoming known as "suicide spots". According to a study on the socio-environmental determinants of railway suicide, published in BMC Public Health journal, over half of all rail-related fatalities are suicides. Moreover, the World Health Organisation (WHO) reports that over the last 45 years, suicide rates have increased by 60% worldwide, and it is predicted that by 2020, the rate of death will increase to one every 20 seconds.

Figures from the European Railways Association (ERA) show that the number of suicides across the EU network also increased in parallel with the rising number of overall passenger journeys: between 2008 and 2011, suicides saw an 18% increase from 2,422 to 2,868 every year.

But despite the increase, WHO points out that in terms of policy, only 28 countries are known to have national suicide prevention strategies put in place. According to their 'Preventing suicide' report published last year, suicide deterrence should be "a multi-sectoral priority" - and the rail industry is a key player in this nation-wide effort to further avert suicides.

For instance, UK's rail network has consistently had one of the highest suicide rates in Europe, data from ERA reveals. Apart from the loss of life and trauma experienced by train drivers, railway staff, passengers and witnesses, the heavy disruption to services costs the rail industry around ^50m every year, according to Network Rail. The cost - approximately 400,000 minutes of delays were attributed to suicides only in 2013/14 - further stresses the severity of the problem and puts railway operators under the spotlight to react accordingly.

To date, "restricting access to the means of suicide" is the most common technique used by authorities and operators. The study quoted above highlights that, following years of research, "reducing accessibility to train lines through installation of physical barriers is the only suicide prevention strategy that has been followed by a decrease in railway suicide". In 2002, the installation of platform screen doors at Hong Kong stations saw suicide figures drop by almost 60%.

Nevertheless, this method might prove too expensive in some cases and simply ineffective outside of stations and across networks that cover large areas. As a result, different means of prevention are needed.

A good example of a dedicated suicide prevention campaign comes from the five-year partnership between UK railway authority Network Rail and independent charity Samaritans.

The 'Tackling Suicide on the Railways' programme initially launched in January 2010 with the aim to reduce railway suicides by 20% by 2015. The programme has since grown and now also involves train operators, freight operators and the British Transport Police. The campaign tackles the complex issues surrounding suicide through specialist training courses for staff, a wide-reaching public awareness campaign, targeted research and a host of infrastructure updates and alternations to the station environment.
The two-fold training course prepares personnel to both approach and manage a suicidal person on the platform and successfully deal with the emotional aftermath of witnessing a suicide, through a dedicated Trauma Support Training module.

The course is designed to equip railways staff with the "skills, confidence and knowledge to identify and approach people exhibiting suicidal behaviour."

"We are at the point of having trained nearly 10,000 rail industry staff, including frontline staff on this course, which is a huge achievement," says Samaritans strategic partnership manager Ola Rzepczynska. "Since people started attending this course, we have had over 150 interventions reported to us."

Furthermore, a range of infrastructural changes implemented at train stations include removing benches from all fast line platforms, installing fences at platform ends, upping the number of anti-trespass guards, lighting up dark platforms and introducing smart motion-detection cameras to alert of unusual movements both in stations and at level crossings.

On most platforms in the UK, passengers can also spot any of the three 'We're in your corner' posters, designed to encourage people to seek help and directly contact the Samaritans for support. An extension of the 'Men on the ropes' campaign from 2010, the new posters were carefully designed to appeal to the most susceptive group of people, namely "men in their 30s, 40s and 50s from lower socio-economic backgrounds", who have been found to be at the highest risk of suicide.

A three-year-long review into the programme, undertaken by the Rail Safety and Standards Board (RSSB), tried to gage the results and achievements of the campaign, praised as "one of the most progressive and ambitious programmes in Europe".

But it's not all good news: a research brief published in February 2014 revealed that while the programme improved the industry's knowledge and understanding of suicide, it has not yet managed to reduce the number of suicides.

"The rail statistics come out on an annual basis, and what we've seen over the past few years is that they are very much in line unfortunately with a rising overall national suicide rates. So as a percentage of that, railway suicide has remained relatively static, roughly at about 4% of national suicides," Rzepczynska says.

The review does, however, recognise a reduced response time to suicides, better co-ordination of services and a small reduction in delays. The training, which now includes over 1,500 managerial staff, also managed to raise the quality of interventions and increased the likelihood of intervention in the future.

But Network Rail's efforts stretch beyond this campaign. Last year, a series of trials were announced to equip selected stations with blue lights, a recently discovered and under-researched technique present at only a few train stations around the world.

Blue LED lights previously installed at stations, bus stops, airports and various high danger zones around cities have been reported to induce a calming effect on people in the area, which helps to reduce crime, anti-social behaviour and suicide attempts.

"A part of the program is continuously looking for innovations and different ways in which we can prevent suicide and blue lights has been one of the areas that we've been piloting, along with a number of other measures such as mobile CCTV, cameras and sensors," Rzepczynska says. "It's something that Network Rail have considered and implemented in a few locations."

Minimise Energy, a company specialising in the production of blue LED floodlights for public spaces, describe the effect in a press release: "Research has shown that blue light can induce calm, and as a colour often associated with authority, particularly the police, blue light in public places is different enough from the norm to encourage people to rethink before committing unwanted behaviour."

The company distributed their blue lights to Network Rail and have been following the trials intently. According to head of UK sales at Minimise Energy Sam Stageman, "the initial trial has given satisfactory results to promote further opportunities so I think it is very client-dependent on how far they want to roll it out to a major premise or areas of particular concern. Following the success of that, further product is being provided for additional stations."

The technology has also been used outside of the UK. A Japanese study evaluating the effect of blue lights on the number of suicides at 71 train stations between 2000 and 2010 found "an 84% reduction of railway suicides that could be attributable to the introduction of blue lights at the edges of stations".

One of these stations is Shin-Koiwa in Tokyo, a recognised suicide spot, where part of their ceiling is covered with blue plastic film. But there isn't universal support for altered lighting: changing the tint of the light through plastic film is not only ineffective, but also dangerous, according to Dave Grant-Stechyshyn, technical manager for Minimise Energy.

"If you put a blue film over a white light you'll find that actually will degrade the light level hugely," he says. "On a train station platform, where light levels are extremely important for safety, it's just completely not acceptable. So we've had to design a product that had a blue LED that emitted physical blue light rather than just a blue film over white light."

Even though the present programmes and technologies are a significant step forward in alleviating the problem, more research, trials and data collection are needed to successfully reduce the number of incidents on an ever-expanding railway network. Experimental techniques currently under development can be seen in Japan, where the most problematic stations are equipped with fitted screens broadcasting soothing pictures, a public panic button in the case of an attempted suicide and the distribution of readily-available leaflets with suicide hotline contact details.

In the UK, a new referral scheme involving the Samaritans and BTP is currently being piloted in the North London area.

"What we encourage the BTP to do is, if they come in contact with an individual who is potentially vulnerable on the railway network, they can offer the individual a referral to Samaritans. With their consent, we can call the individual and have a confidential conversation," Rzepczynska explains.

If successful, the scheme is expected to be rolled out nationally in the future, as the partnership between the charity and Network Rail has recently been extended for five more years.

While railway operators around the world recognise their responsibility in preventing suicide on their networks, it is important to remember that, as WHO points out, suicide results from "many complex socio-cultural factors" and "the health sector but also education, employment, social welfare, the judiciary and others" should all become involved in its prevention in order for significant progress to be achieved.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 20, 2016, 17:21:31
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35610677):

Quote
Rail industry tackles high suicide rates on network

Last year 293 people in the UK tried to take their own lives on the railway network.

The rail industry is now working with the Samaritans charity on a new campaign to work on suicide prevention.

The BBC's John Maguire reports.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 15, 2017, 12:10:26
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41992967):

Quote
Commuters urged to help stop suicides through small talk

Commuters are being urged to step in if they see vulnerable people near railway tracks, as part of a campaign to prevent suicide.

Network Rail, British Transport Police (BTP) and Samaritans hope the "Small Talk Saves Lives" campaign will give travellers the confidence to intervene.

BTP Chief Constable Paul Crowther said engaging someone in conversation could "make all the difference".

In 2016/17, 273 people died in suicide incidents on the UK's railways.

Ian Stevens from Network Rail, who manages the industry's suicide prevention programme, said: "Given that nearly five million journeys are made by train every day, we are asking for passengers to work alongside our staff as the eyes and ears of the railway, helping us to keep everybody safe."

A survey of 5,000 people carried out by the campaign group showed 83% of passengers would approach someone who may be suicidal if they knew the signs, what to say and if they knew they would not make the situation worse.

The campaign highlights warning signs, including:
- A person standing alone and isolated
- A person looking distant or withdrawn
- Someone staying on the platform a long time without boarding a train
- Someone displaying something out of the ordinary in their behaviour or appearance.

And when it comes to what to say, the Samaritans said something as simple as a question could break the pattern of suicidal thoughts.

Examples which have saved lives include "It's a warm evening, isn't it?" and "Do you need some help?". Asking someone what their name is or introducing yourself can also get the conversation started.

After asking the initial question, many people said they felt confident to offer reassurance and support those by listening, it added.

Sarah Wilson planned to take her life on the railway, but did not go through with it after someone spoke to her. "Someone showing that they cared about me helped to interrupt my suicidal thoughts and that gave them time to subside," she said. "The more that people understand that suicide is preventable, the better. You won't make things worse, and you could save a life."

While the group was keen to emphasise there was no single sign or combination of behaviours that meant a person was suicidal, it said: "If something doesn't feel right, the message is to act."

If a person does not feel comfortable to talk to someone at risk, the group recommends alerting a member of staff or calling the police.

The Samaritans have trained 16,000 rail staff and BTP officers in suicide prevention and, as a result, for each life lost on the railway, six are saved.

"Suicide is everybody's business and any one of us could have an opportunity to save a life," said Ruth Sutherland, chief executive of the Samaritans. "We hope that Small Talk Saves Lives is the start of a much wider conversation about how suicide is preventable."




Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: ChrisB on November 15, 2017, 12:59:58
The problem with this is if you ultimately fail, and continue with their act. I can't imagine how one might feel that you failed....and you won't necessarily know until everything concludes (badly)

I think this advice ought to carry a health warning personally


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Tim on November 15, 2017, 13:52:54
The problem with this is if you ultimately fail, and continue with their act. I can't imagine how one might feel that you failed....and you won't necessarily know until everything concludes (badly)

I think this advice ought to carry a health warning personally

The way I look at it though is that the only guaranteed way to fail is not to try.  My experience as a First Aider is that people are often reluctant to stop and help someone in public but that once you have stopped others will as well and the responsibility for helping will be shared (or even passed on to someone else better equipped to help). 

 

 


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: ChrisB on November 15, 2017, 14:00:47
Which is not what you need when helping with that sort of incident. One-on-One often works, a crowd usually fails.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Tim on November 15, 2017, 16:16:18
Which is not what you need when helping with that sort of incident. One-on-One often works, a crowd usually fails.
Yes, but it depends.  CPR is exhausting. You don't want to do that on your own.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: ChrisB on November 15, 2017, 17:20:54
I think the idea is to *prevent* the death actually - by chatting to them & persuading them that life is worth living....


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: grahame on November 15, 2017, 17:31:10
There is a massive amount to be said for many of (us) regular travellers having a little bit of knowledge to provide time-critical (i.e. emergency) response to a situation; not only for immediate suicide risks but for vulnerable (typically young) people.   That knowledge - as in the case of medical / physical first aid - much be to help control the situation and get in the professional assistance to whom to pass on to.

There will be times an individual does their best, but doesn't prevent someone taking their own life.  Personally, I would rather have tried and failed than not even tried.  But in the circumstance where you or I or someone steps in and does their very best, that person stepping in needs to know that they're going to be appreciated for their trying rather than admonished for failing to save a situation.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: grahame on April 07, 2018, 13:35:33
A new campaign from The Samaritains (https://www.samaritans.org/media-centre/our-campaigns/small-talk-saves-lives)

Even if you don't click through most of my news posts please click through this one (link above), watch the video, and give it some thought. You could save someone's life.

Quote
Did you know a little small talk can be all it takes to interrupt someone’s suicidal thoughts?

We’ve launched Small Talk Saves Lives with Network Rail, British Transport Police and the wider rail industry to give people the confidence to help prevent suicide on the railways and beyond.

It’s built on a simple ask: that if you think somebody might need help, trust your instincts and strike up a conversation.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: grahame on September 15, 2023, 17:57:21
The Samaritans continue to do good work on the GWR network and elsewhere - big "Thank You" to Bethan Hodges for coming to the Community Rail and Stakeholder conference and updating us, and for the work she and her colleagues do. There is a risk of "contagion" if I post much here.  But never the less, a reminder to members and guests reading that a quiet friendly word from YOU can make the difference.  And people can call 116 123 at any time.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: broadgage on September 15, 2023, 23:43:05
Some years ago there was a suggestion that blue lighting was helpful in reducing suicides, It was suggested that the general illumination had to be blue, a single blue light being considered ineffective.

Has this been tried, and did it work ?


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: ChrisB on September 16, 2023, 15:11:54
Wasn't the research done into preventing drug use (injecting), not suicide prevention. That works & is still in use for that purpose.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Clan Line on September 16, 2023, 16:09:16
Some years ago there was a suggestion that blue lighting was helpful ............

I was once told that pink was a colour which tends to calm people down and stop sudden impulsive urges to do rash things. For example, all the equipment in the Missile Control Centre on the Polaris submarines was painted 2 shades of off-pink..........to stop someone starting WWIII on an impulse !! I also remember reading that some police stations have a pink cell to calm down the most obnoxious drunks.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Marlburian on September 16, 2023, 16:48:28
It should be Baker-Miller pink. (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/pink-colour-feminine-calming-gender-stereotypes-a8577121.html)


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Clan Line on September 16, 2023, 21:17:17
It should be Baker-Miller pink. (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/pink-colour-feminine-calming-gender-stereotypes-a8577121.html)

One of the pinks was very "dusty rose" ish !!! 
The Baker-Miller pink would drive you round the bend:   "In 2017, model Kendall Jenner painted her living room Baker-Miller pink – and raved about how it made her feel much calmer".................If she "raved" about it - surely that proved it didn't work !!


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Bmblbzzz on September 18, 2023, 15:12:22
"Think pink" is or used to be a phrase in climbing circles for staying calm in difficult situations. Not that that's really evidence for it working elsewhere.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 18, 2023, 23:35:15
Some years ago there was a suggestion that blue lighting was helpful in reducing suicides, It was suggested that the general illumination had to be blue, a single blue light being considered ineffective.

Has this been tried, and did it work ?

The one on the end of Tilehurst’s down main platform is still there.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Marlburian on September 20, 2023, 10:55:25
Some years ago there was a suggestion that blue lighting was helpful in reducing suicides, It was suggested that the general illumination had to be blue, a single blue light being considered ineffective.

Has this been tried, and did it work ?

The one on the end of Tilehurst’s down main platform is still there.

I was near Tilehurst Station this morning, so popped in for a look. I couldn't spot it. Is it only on in the dark? There were three proselytisers on the forecourt, not attracting any custom. (At 0845 there were 60 empty spaces in the car park, noticeably more than pre-Lockdown, and the number of passengers also seemed lower.)


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 20, 2023, 11:40:06
Yes, only on at night, or at least only really visible then.  At the London end of the down main platform.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: CyclingSid on September 21, 2023, 06:50:06
This is, of course, a larger problem than just railways https://www.england.nhs.uk/mental-health/case-studies/archived-mental-health-case-studies/zero-suicide/ (https://www.england.nhs.uk/mental-health/case-studies/archived-mental-health-case-studies/zero-suicide/)


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Electric train on September 21, 2023, 07:57:53
The last station between Didcot and Paddington without "fast line fencing" Maidenhead platform 2 seems to be well into the construction with many of the post foundations cast.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: ChrisB on September 21, 2023, 08:10:15
It does seem to be more a problem on the GWML than say, LNR or WCML where fewer seem to happen. I wonder whether any academic study has been done on this?


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: grahame on September 21, 2023, 08:21:49
It does seem to be more a problem on the GWML than say, LNR or WCML where fewer seem to happen. I wonder whether any academic study has been done on this?

At least on the Wales and Western route there are detailed looks at where all events that disrupt trains across the patch - we were shown a series of slides last week (you were there  ;) ) and they included "person hit by train". It's fair to say that where clusters occur, the question is asked "why is this" and indeed some explanations were offered in the wider context of other types of disruption.   Whether those are "academic" studies I would not like to say; the boundary between rail industry techical analysis and academic can be a bit fuzzy and as long as we understand and take actions to fix where appropriate, really does not matter!


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Electric train on September 21, 2023, 12:18:27
It does seem to be more a problem on the GWML than say, LNR or WCML where fewer seem to happen. I wonder whether any academic study has been done on this?

Some of it has to do with the track arrangement.  ECML (LNR) have the fasts a the 2 centre tracks with the slows on the outside which generally are the only ones with platforms.  Many of the WCML stations do not have accusable or usable fast line platforms


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: TonyK on September 21, 2023, 22:22:02
It is certainly not a problem that seems to be in decline. We have recently been away by rail. On our outbound journey on Thursday 14 September, our second train of the day was an Avanti GWML service out of Birmingham New Street. Near Sandwell and Dudley station, the train shuddered to a halt. A clearly shaken TM told us a few minutes later that a man had jumped of a bridge in front of the train. Incredibly, the train only clipped him, and he wasn't seriously hurt. The driver could not continue though, and the train terminated in Wolverhampton. We eventually continued on a diesel service for many miles under wires. 

This morning, as we boarded the connecting train to Manchester, I saw that our train to Bristol had been cancelled. After making hurried adjustments to our itinerary using RTT, I found that cancellation was also caused by a person hit by train.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: Electric train on September 22, 2023, 11:20:58
This morning, as we boarded the connecting train to Manchester, I saw that our train to Bristol had been cancelled. After making hurried adjustments to our itinerary using RTT, I found that cancellation was also caused by a person hit by train.

"Person hit by a train" does not mean it was a suicide, trespassers are often the case of a person struck by a train, occasionally trackworkers get struck by a train


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: TonyK on September 23, 2023, 14:43:07

"Person hit by a train" does not mean it was a suicide, trespassers are often the case of a person struck by a train, occasionally trackworkers get struck by a train

Fair point. In the first case, the intention was apparently suicide, and hopefully the person concerned will receive whatever treatment is appropriate to stop another attempt. In the second case, I don't know the reason, nor was I able to find where it happened.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: GBM on March 09, 2024, 11:34:44
Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Plymouth via Taunton
Following the emergency services dealing with an incident at Reading West some lines have now reopened. Disruption is expected until 13:00 09/03.
Train services between London Paddington and Plymouth via Taunton and Exeter St Davids may be cancelled or delayed.
Additional Information
Apologies to customers, owing to a person being hit by a train at Reading West services are being disrupted.

The line from Newbury and the line from Basingstoke TOWARDS Reading has been re-opened.
The line from Reading towards Newbury and Basingstoke remains CLOSED.
Reading West station will remain closed with no services calling at the station in either direction.


Title: Re: Preventing suicide on the railways
Post by: GBM on March 09, 2024, 11:57:24
1C74 0903 London Paddington to Plymouth
Just reversed back into Reading.

Thoughts with all those involved.



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