Great Western Coffee Shop

The 12 class 142 pacers FGW intend to lease will be used on Devon branchlines.

I have been advised that the first two class 142 pacers to move to FGW are being readied at a depot in Manchester for a move to Exeter probably on Sunday. The units being readied are said to be 142001 and 142004. I'l update this post if and when I hear further.

It is more or less confirmed that the first two class 142 pacers coming to FGW will arrive at Exeter on Sunday after running from Newton Heath depot in Manchester via Chester and the Welsh Marches line through Wrexham, Shrewsbury, Hereford and Abergavenny. The plan is for the units to arrive about 1900 hours and will comprise of units 142001 and 142064 and not the previously announced 142004 which is due a routine examination. The two units will be used for staff familiarisation and training in the runup to the December timetable change.

Oh great, I cant wait to see these vile heaps of junk everywhere while our almost decentish class 158s disapear. Fantastic news!!

As for the 180 Adelante, they DO go off lease in May 2008, Mr Haines is in for a bad time in the press in December methinks, especially with some HST buffet cars vanishing aswell...

After a false start Class 142 pacers 142001 and 142064 should by now have arrived at their new home, Exeter DMU Depot.

They were due to move on Sunday 23/09/2007, well they did actually start out from Newton Heath Depot in Manchester and got as far as Chester when the move was curtailed.

The move was resumed today (25/09/2007) and they passed through Bristol mid afternoon en route to Exeter.

Northern Stars shining in Exeter tomight.

And we extend them a very warm western welcome!

They are going to be stars in their own right come december and will be some of the most talked about rolling stock by people who wouldnt normally talk about such things. I bet they made a lovely screeecchhhhh as they went around the bend of Bristol Temple Meads station that their cousins the 143s screeched back at them in delight that they have joined them in providing their own unique journey experience to the long suffering West country commuters.

Rumour has it that Network Rail are running a sweepstake on the signalman that has to deal with the first Pacer derailment...

I bet some of the heaps of junk that end up down here were the same units that were sent up country in 1986! the north revolts!

More a case of the DafT deciding we don't deserve a decent rail service...

The 12 units being leased by FGW from Angel Trains are the following :

142001
142004
142005
142009
142028
142030
142063
142064
142068
142070
142071
142078

If you are wondering what other DMU's are sitting in the sidings , generally kicking their heels , then here is a list of those currently in storage , plus the ROSCO and storage location :

Class 153 302 (Angel Trains , Eastleigh Works)
Class 153 308 (Angel Trains , Eastleigh Works)
Class 153 355 (Angel Trains , Eastleigh Works)
Class 153 374 (Angel Trains , Eastleigh Works)
Class 158 772 (Porterbrook Leasing , Doncaster)
Class 159 011 (Porterbrook Leasing , Doncaster)
Class 165 167 (Angel Trains , Crewe)

Interesting that those 153s are still stored at Eastleigh. FGW could do with them back at the moment as they have caught that nasty bug from last December/January of running short formed peak hour services which has continued today. Either that or get those 142s into service sooner rather than later. Better than having a short or no service at all.

Have FGW over stretched their fleet by sending too many sets away for refurbishment leaving very little slack in the fleet for maintainance issues?

I take it the 159+158 are totally unusable because they are the most popular older DMU's.

Yes thats why they are taking 12 of our sets and giving them to Northern in return for their 142s that they dont want anymore.

The 159 caught light, not sure about the 158 though

I am informed that 142064's wheelsets have that much tyre left that the wheelsets will have to be replaced before they enter service and will probably have to be roaded somewhere for replacements to be fitted as there is no suitable facilities at Exeter Depot to carry out the work. That would probably explain why test runs to Dawlish Warren and back from Exeter, and to Okehampton and back were both cancelled.

Which lines were the "skippers" taken away from back in the eighties? 

St Ives, Falmouth, Newquay, Looe, Gunnislake, Paignton, Exmouth, Barney........... taken away because they were unsuitable! and now they're coming back!

http://www.great-western.fotopic.net/p45413890.html (http://www.great-western.fotopic.net/p45413890.html)
Picture of two Class 142's being stabled at Exeter.

They look great dont they?! Bet you lucky passengers cant wait to get in them. There is a rumour that airplane style sick bags will be issued on board these beauties, for when they are bouncing around the Barny branch!

Excellent for FGW that they already come in their colour. All they need to do is stick the 'F' on the side and off we go, instant trains, problems solved.

Stick F on the side. I doubt it. The never put there names on any local stock. The wessex untis still don't say fgw after 1 and 1/2 years.

They have on one of their Bristol Based 143s.

that's only a temp logo/colour scheme aparently

as that one had a graffiti attack

Does anybody know what seating layout the 142's have? As although I live in Cornwall one is bound to end up on the Exmouth-Penzance diagram soon enough despite what FGW say.
Yeh that was only because it suffered a Graffiti attack and painting it FGW blue was cheaper/easier than cleaning it up. It still has destinations from the old livery on the window though.

Bus seating.

I don't think you can complain about Cornwall journeys when People could be spending surplus of 90 minutes on these in summer wedged into the trains just between Paignton - exmouth.

I wasn't complaining about journeys in Cornwall although i'm hoping we won't have to use them they're better than no train at all or an overcrowded train with less cariages.

I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but apparently the seating capacity of a 142 is a lot less than a 158, or a 150, and not a great deal more than a single 153. Anybody know the exact seating capacities?

Depends on the layout. I believe these units are in 2+3 Bus seating mode so presumably not much different to a luxurious (!!!) 150

According to Wikipedia (yes, I know...), they vary between 102 and 120 per two-car set.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_142 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_142)

In the meeting that the Avocet Line Rail Users Group (ALRUG) had with Julian Crow (FGW General Manager for the West of England) he stated that exactly how the Pacers would be used was still being worked out. Doubling them up is certainly an option but as the units have no corridor connection this poses staffing problems. There are also problems with platforms lengths, particularly at St James's Park.

Correct me if I am wrong but a 150 plus a 153 has 208 seats, two 142s have 212 so I could only ever envisage two 142s being used where there is currently a 150+153 combination but as someone has already said, the chances of getting two 142s to work together reliably and regularly may at best be wishful thinking.

Looking at the reliability figures which were published in January this year the Northern 142s have only 60% of that of a 150 but it was noticeable that the figure was on a downward trend, which is understandable as when a TOC is getting rid of stock it doesn't lavish too much care on them. The Arriva Wales 142s are only a third as reliable as a 150, the difference being accounted for by the harsher terrain in South Wales. Again there was a downward trend. I suspect that the Northern 142s may not take kindly to the climb from St Davids to Central, amongst other Devon banks.

Don^t expect any sudden increase in reliability or comfort from the transfer to FGW as Julian Crow stated quite clearly that ^they would tidy them up a bit^ but that^s all, as they only have them for two years.

Looking back in magazines of the eighties I noticed that 142s were banned from being coupled to 155s except for line clearance purposes (rescue) and even then only if subject to a 30mph restriction. No reason was quoted but as 155s became 153s is there a potential problem here if ever the need arose for a 142/153 coupling?

I agree with another poster that the four 153s off lease should be brought back in place of 4 of the Pacers.  153s (dog boxes) are far from perfect for the Exmouth Branch as they are so slow in loading and unloading but at least FGW will be spared the need to dispense 142 anti-nausea tablets.

One good piece of news. We were told that Exeter depot is to have a carriage washing machine. About time is all that I can say as for years our local trains have resembled well used agricultural equipment, particularly after foul weather, and being able to see out of the windows can at best be difficult ^ a bit like FGWs refurbished HST coaches but that^s a posting for another place.

To conclude, the message from ALRUG to FGW is quite simple, Pacers, no thanks, we don^t want them.

TJ

 

Thats what you've been told. Its been mentioned somewhere that if Northern are given West Midlands 150/1s which Alison sad would be coming to the West, then FGW could be stuck with the 142s for the rest of the franchise. Another gift for FGW management to sort out from Dft. I guess they are trying to force FGW to invest in new rolling stock by parring them off with 142s as there is no other spare stock lying around that FGW could take on.

That is DEVASTATING news for our TransWilts campaign, where we have been told "no trains now, no trains next year, but you may be able to have some 142 from December 2008 when they're no longer needed as cover for the units being refurbished.

FGW should start telling all their customers the same fibs stories ... don't they realise we talk to each other?  ;D

I will crosspost this for follow ups to "TransWilts"

Oh lovely. Everywhere else gets nice new train whilst us in Devon on railways that aren't exactly quiet get the total crap!

Arggg

They better not have any fare rises! These trains should be on lines that don't need decent stock.ie Severn Beach (short), Melksham (better than no train), Commuter stuff (better than no train) and branches in Cornwall such as Newquay that aren't exactly booming in Winter months. I may have to complain to FGW when i have a dodgy journey on one of these scrap heaps. Even  153 beats this as they have more doors per 2 car train! (4v3)

Exmouth's not exactly a long branch line!

I cant see what all the fuss is about these units.

There brilliant units. Who cares if they bounce all over the place, just be thankful a train shows up. I personally cant wait to see these units back on the local lines in devon/cornwall etc...

I'll definitely be out doing them. FGW have actualy got something right.

Have you ever travelled on a 142? I agree they're better than nothing though! but they're bloody awful contraptions!

I wouldnt shout too loudly about your affection for 142s if I were you as you will find yourself very much in the minority with passengers in Devon who arent very pleased to see them back.

FGW cant take the credit for bringing them down to the West Country as they were forced on them by Dft. FGW didnt want them knowing how unpopular 142s/143s are with the travelling public along their reliabilty record which is poor which will only make FGW even more unpopular than they already are when they breakdown, cause delays and cancellations to services.

Ask yourself the question if they are that good, why would Northern want shot of them bearing in mind how cheap they are to lease as apposed to hiring 158s that FGW lose come December TT change?

PS welcome to the coffee shop  :)

Thats before the traincrew even mention working them on here!

i have to say, but whats wrong with them anyway? The valley lines round here pretty much rely on them and 143's, and i'm yet to ever go on one that has had a problem/reliability issue. After using them daily for the past 2 years

What is the matter with you people .

A 142 / 143 pacer unit is a damn sight better than some of the tat that FGW class as their trains. So the pacers dont have tables at seats. So the pacers dont have air conditioning. So the pacers dont have all that irritating automatic waffle passed off as the PA and they dont have the "disabled" toilet facility. People have lost touch with reality here. If its a train that can be used then it should be used. So what if the train has very lively suspension. All the more for an enjoyable journey i should think. (Yes i have travelled on these units and yes i do like them).

The pacer was very cheap to build and is i should imagine very easy to maintain and operate.  So what if they are very basic internally. Who wants to travel with all the extras you get with other train types. I certainly dont. They were built to perform a very basic simple function, to get people from A to B and they do this day in, day out.

May they last down there for a few more years yet .

Andrew Griffiths of FGW was quoting some reliability figures for trains last night at the Westbury meeting and I made some notes.  These are for FGW's class 143 which are similar

October 2006 - one failure in service every 3232 miles run
September 2007 - one failure every 4606 miles run
Target - one failure every 6000 miles or better

They are already achieving this target for other units (150 / 153 / 158) although it was much lower when they took over.

Top notch / best achieved figures are around one failure every 10000 miles run  but it's doubtful if that is practical with 20 year old stock of the type we have in these parts.

Yes, i have travelled on these units. I have done many miles on them.

I am a regular user of them on the valley lines.

And i agree with "shazz", i have never once had, a or seen a failed 142/143/144.

As stated elsewhere on this page, we dont all care about tables, wi-fi, cripple crappers, boring announcements. We just want to get from A-B. Long live the railbus and i hope they all get preserved in about 15 years.

There was an oil leak on the Class 143 0805 Bristol Temple Meads - Avonmouth service this morning. I also wonder whether you might be about to get deluged with tales of Pacer breakdowns past........

They are better than nowt but why should we loose decent 158's only to have them replaced by a bus with no tyres (or suspension!)?? they're not that cheap in the long run because they nacker up the track nearly 10 times quicker than a bogied vehicle!

FGW were talking last night of raising "failed in service" rates from once ever 3232 miles a year ago to once every 6000 miles, and telling us they're halfway there.   By "failed in service" they mean a fault that causes a delay of five minutes or more, so you may have seen a failure and thought (or been told) it was cows on the line.

A few quick sums ... if a unit does 320 miles a day, which is not very much, it has been failing once every 10 days.

Decision taken by Tom Harris. "There's more growth in the North" he said to David Redgewell in personat the labour party conference. I was speaking last night in person to David.  Tom Harris accepts full responsibility for the decision I understand, and a number of others such as the lack of extra trains in the area. "People are able to travel, and when they get really full, FGW lay on a few extra buses.  What's the problem, and it doesn't cost me anything".

Perhaps it should cost him something in terms of votes.   Isn't there a labour MP in Swindon and a labout MP in Exeter?  How safe are their seats?

What do you expect from Labour though?  bunch of hypocritical tory wannabees.

Well , its shaky for Snelgrove in Swindon South , and wobbly for Wills in Swindon North , both of whom saw a collapse in support last time round , leaving them with vulnerable majorities (links below.)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/vote2005/html/568.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/vote2005/html/567.stm

Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) , recently appointed "Champion Of The West" (!) , saw a similiar slump in votes , but still has a 7,665 majority (link below.)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/vote2005/html/245.stm

And does anybody who commutes in the SW give a toss whats happening up north.

Are the north complaining about 142s?

No

Are we happy with our 150s?

Yes

If it isn't broke don't fix it!

Here, here! some sense at last!!!!!

I seem to remember a 143 catching fire in the nailsea area a couple of years ago, and having worked 143's many times and often having to fail the units( normally due to door faults), i am not looking forward to working 142's on the devon branches.
Some drivers are already talking about going sick after a 5 hour stint at the controls( Paignton-Exmouth-Paignton) due to the bouncing around causing back pain, and headache from the noise.
Believe me this is a massive step backwards, though i do agree with intercity about tables, wi-fi, buffets etc.
If only these things had a history of reliability!

At least they're not coming to Cornwall!! Yet................

Last time i was on a 142 I has a headache.

142:
Dangerous motion
2+3 seating
No tables
3 doors per side
Likely to fail

150s
Tables
Nice 2+2 seating
4 doors per side + guard
more seats
fairly reliable
can be doubled up with ease.

I'd rather have a class 142 anyday over these rancid FGW HST refurbed set's, and im a die hard HST fan....

If it isn't broke don't fix it!


FGW should have thought about this before tampering with the HST's.

The initial information I received was incorrect , and it was in fact a Class 158 unit that formed the 0805 oil - leak train.

For all the Pacer fans out there - I hope thats made your day......

Lesson to learn: Don't travel on the 0738 as it calls at every shack to Bristol.

On the other hand the 1415 is a fairly fast service.

Addition by Graham

Due to an error by the moderator - me - this post no longer makes sense here.  It relates to Paington to London trains that take the Great Way Round (07:38) and Berks and Hants (14:15) ... see all about it at

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=773.0

Sorry I've made you post look odd, Liam, by splitting the topic.

I have moved the post by "Train Drained" out of this thread to the "London to the West" board, as it was in danger of getting lost in the flood of 142 concerns, when it had some other important points to make.

-- Graham

Now at:

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=773.0

May make sence to remove my post and this one ;)

Oh gosh - sorry - did that relate to the Paington to London post which I removed from thsi thread to give it the exposure it deserved?    Thanks for the nudge.   Actually I'll us this as another chance to tell people about that other thread if I may - it's at

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=773.0

Back on the subject of 142's ;)

Can you really class the one hour Exeter to Barnstaple trip as a 'shorter journey'?

Long time to be stuck in a bus-type seat being shaken to bits >:(

Recently had the joy of travelling up the line in an ex-Trans Pennine ex-First Class seat and the journey seemed to fly by; my fellow passengers could be overheard remarking on the comfort of the train.

If only....

Instead we can look forward to squeezing into cramped urban-style 3+2 seating as we bounce noisily up the line >:(

Mind you, at least there will be plenty of space as those passengers who have the choice to travel either by car or train will flee the Tarka Line in droves as the 'not bad' train units at present get sent to the more deserving folks up North.

If the Tarka Line was losing passengers year-on-year then I could almost understand this decision; it is not, numbers have been steadily increasing. What a reward for the travelling public who are supporting this line :(

This removal of half-decent rolling stock in favour of units that were quite rightly kicked out of the region 20 years ago is a tragedy for the Barnstaple line and the longer it goes on the more I fear passengers will turn to their cars, or even a coach-type seat on the bus.

The final insult, of course, is the over-paid failiures that are FGW Management crowing on about 'refreshing' the local train fleet: as ever, 'local' for them equals their beloved London/Bristol/Cardiff route and sod everyone else....

The thing about 158's is that there everyones favourite. So the good TOC's make an efort to get them i.e. Northern. The DFT then say Angel Trains must give Northern 30 158's. FGW don't do anything about trying to keep them so there going to be taking away. What we get in return is 142's which will be replaced by 158's at Northern. Straight swap. Different unit.

I find it staggering more noise is not being made about this swap. I dont think in the main the travelling public know what is happening yet...they will come December!

To right they'll know. Turn up to travel on the day of change expecting to have a nice comfortable journey. Then they'll bodies will be ripped apart as they won't be used to traveling on pacers.

You state that Exeter - Barnstaple is 1 hour.

Imagine similar journey:
Paignton - Exeter 50 mins
Paignton - Exmouth 85 mins
Barnstaple - Exmouth 90 mins
Paignton - Barnstaple (there is one train on Sunday IIRC) 105 mins.

This F**K up is entirely down to FGW, when they bid for the franchise they seemed to think they needed X amount of units, so they were due to go off lease this December, in the meantime they realised that people do actually travel on local services and now want to keep the units but it's too late because the ROSCO has promised them elswere! If FGW had said in the first place that they needed these units then they'd be staying with us!

Well at least it should mean no fare increases.

If there are any I can predict a full scale riot!

A class 142 visited Paignton today on test. One yesterday morning in the very early hours was supposed to visit Exmouth but am unsure if it ran...

Lets hope it fails the test then! I'm sure Network Rail have done their best to make the line as bouncy as possible!

Sounds like you would rather have no train!

The one 142 that is in running order has been to Barnstaple, Exmouth and Paignton on 'test' runs, mainly for driver handling purposes. The crews are actually surprised at how smooth the ride has been, apart for the stretch between Portsmouth Arms and Umberleigh......but a 158 bounces around there as well!

Well, they cant be all bad, they lasted up north for over twenty years! better than no train at all i spose!

I think FGW needs to emply the heritage side of things on a failing railway.

Melksham perhaps ;)

After travelling on a couple of Devon Branchline trains today, I think they should use the 142's straight away as the overcrowding is quite severe.

Logic please. 142s have fewer seats than a 150 and two 142s have only a eleven more seats than a 150+153 combination. Seatingwise two 142s are better than a single 150 but I understand that only one train is to have this enhancement on the Exmouth Branch. Ye big deal. Let's face it Exeter is only going to have 6 142s and I doubt if they dare rely on more than 4 being serviceable at any one time. The other 6 will be based in Bristol for use on the Severn Beach line I believe but confirmation would be appreciated.

Yes we need more capacity on the Exmouth Branch peak services but, even ignoring all reliability issues, 142s are just not the answer. Even FGW don't want them but, mainly due to their own incompetance, they have been DfT stuffed.

TJ

Is there anywhere on the FGW local network that isnt suffering from overcrowding?

If Class 142 units do end up in Bristol for use on the Severn Beach Line , then even reliability permitting , I doubt that as many as 6 will be required.

If anyone knows more on this though , feel free to correct me.

* SPITS coffee out all over keyboard *  :o

Sorry, I just had to respond to this comment - obviously I can't speak for everyone 'up north' but in common with the rest of the country (maybe the world) the general feeling is a loathing of Class 142s!

A collective groan can be heard at Manchester Deansgate station as the evening communters wait expectantly for their train home and realise what the approaching screeching noise means - overcrowding in the sardine special. Unfortunately for some of us we also have the added displeasure of Merseyrails hepatic yellow livery which doesn't help.

It's a huge relief when a 150 appears as at least you know the standing will be more comfortable or you may be able to sit in the toilet for part of the journey.

I'm shocked these things are heading anywhere other than the scrapyard and offer my condolences to any commuters using them.

At least one of the 142s around here have been re-painted into Northern Rails newish purple livery which means:

(a) They will be around a few years longer
(b) The re-paint should make them twice as strong

142's are only supposed to be used as two units couled together or with other units.

Correction much appreciated, thank you.  Since this board is primarily relating to First Great Western, it's populated by people who live and travel in the FGW area and screams of disgust from Manchester about class 142 units don't necessarily make it this far.

But I do know somewhere they would be welcome. Father Christmas travelled on a Class 143 from Swindon at 17:50 on 9th December last .... but that train never ran again, and there's now a gap in services on the Westbury line between 15:19 and 20:52.  Shoppers, Soccer fans, and Father Christmas all feel that a 142 would be FAR better than the current nothing!

Well thats ok, you lot will have our nice 158's soon, the same 158's that have been based in the region since they were built! enjoy them wont you!

Coupled with other units? I understand that an unsucessful attempt has already been made at Exeter to couple a 142 to a 153. Not surprising considering that back in the eighties BR banned the coupling of 142s to 155s except for 'line clearance' and then only subject to a 30mph restriction. It is assumed that 153s (ex 155s) are equally susceptible to whatever the problem was?

--
TJ

FGW originally said 142's will only be used coupled to other units or as two coupled together because of the capacity difference. 142's can be coupled to 15x's or 14x's but not 155's xmth said but maybe the non-original cab end would be compatable.

142's are compatible with the entire "west" fleet, they all have BSI couplings.

A 142 was in Plymouth today, worked down from Exeter probably on a training run or summit, thought they weren't meant to be coming west of Newton Abbot??

Good news.

As much route availability as possible please and keep them away from Paignton!

hmmmm Paignton-Exmouth might seem bad but Bristol-Penzance is somethin else! 4 1/2 hours on a bus seat? no thanks!

As far as i've heard all 12 are coming to Exeter, and regarding the Exmouth line the problem is not about what the 142s can couple to, but about the platform length on the upside at St James' Park, because obviously 2 units coupled are too long, and with no through access for the guard to operate local door only(which on a 142 is single leaf opening anyway; so no wheelchair, buggy,bikes etc)

There is a rumour that the platform will be lengthened using the unused platform at Polsloe Bridge, which would solve these problems. Hope this helps ;)

Obviously that route is silly, they can only just about max out at 75 as it is let alone work a booked 90mph diagram!

Or specify front unit only for SJP!

All "West" mainline diagrams are timed for 75mph, the first Bristol-Penzance service is booked as a 150+153 and is given the same amount of time as the booked 158 turn. I THINK all of the Cardiff-Pompeys are timed for 75mph aswell.

I belive so, as all the 150's can near enough keep time on there, just they don't arrive as early because they loose the slack

That would sound right because 150s do occasionally operate Cardiff-Pompey/Brighton. There probably arent many places on the line where you can you could do 90mph anyway.

All very well, but if anything is wider than the single leaf door then it can't get out!

The bad thing is where you are in a 90mph unit and the driver still only does 75 on a section from Taunton - Exeter (speed limit 100mph)

How did they manage to get in then!!!

I'm still pinching myself that this swap with Northern is happening and that Dft think that people won't notice this swap of 12 of our 158s with 12 Northern 142s. Crazy.

The only units capable of 90mph are 158's, also, if there is a 75mph unit coupled to it then it has to stick to 75mph, 158's do go 90mph along that stretch and a Exminster. How do you know they only go 75mph? are you a driver or something?

No - but its fairly easy to tell by the engine sounds and how early we are into the next station.

Didn't know our friend Liam had ever done a 158 down from Taunton

Via both Leafs at the stop they got on .

but 158 engines rev lower because of their higher top speed and the automatic gear change into direct drive is a at a higher speed.

The first Bristol-Penzance is usually a 158 but hardly ever 3 carriages- is one taken off at Exeter?

The FIRST one down arrives in Penzance at 1020 and is 9 times out of 10 a 150+153, the second one down gets into Penzance at 1120 and is usually a 158. The 153 off the first one is detached at Penzance and is coupled to the 1242 Penzance plymouth which in turn forms the 1557 Plymouth to Penzance service which is the commuter train from Truro down.

That is where you are wrong!  ;)

whilst it is significant that 142s are replacing 158s, both of which are 15-20 years old now, i dont see what the probs are with the 142s.  we have had them on the cardiff valley lines and south wales main line to swansea and maesteg now for several years, and they were brought up to the standard of the 158s internally by wales and west/wales and borders a few years back.

the ones that have been in the south wales/west region for a few years are certainly more comfortable than those that have the original bus seating, but i have used those before, 3 + 2 seating, but most of the 3's were used a two's and 2's as ones, especially as people are getting bigger over the last ten years (and yep that includes me!)

I think one of the problems which is causing concern about these units coming to FGW is that they are not refurbed like they are in South Wales and FGW obviously have no intention of refurbing them as they intend to only have them on lease for a couple of years (I will believe that when I see it!)

thats what i thought!  the refurbised ex-valley lines 142s are ok.  2 + 2 seating.  the older bus type seats are pathetic to be honest for a MODERN railway in 2008! 

Any unit is tolerable if they have comfortable seats, but bus seats?

Loss of tables and all along with litter bins and privacy from the Chavs behind you...

I've a better idea, ban Chavs from trains!

Butting in on this and pulling the thread back on track.   I was up in Ely yesterday listening to a talk by Bob Breakwell - he's a non executive director of FGW who's been in the industry for many years, and he very specifically mentioned 142s to Cornwall.   Yes, all the stuff about them not being wanted - but "it was them or no trains at all". 

It might be that he's mistaken ... it might be that his information is old ... or it might just be worth checking with someone again.  After all, he IS a director of the company and I'm sure he was briefed before a talk to a national rail conference.  First are vey good at the briefing and staying in line thing!

I don't have any reason not to believe his comment of "it was them or no trains at all" as quite simply other than returning to loco and coaches there really is no spare stock going. 

He probably doesnt know where Cornwall is  ???

I am fairly certain one will stray to Penzance but there are no diagrams for them to do so. Also while Penzance crew will sign them, Par will not so theres NO chance one will go to Newquay/Looe/Gunnislake.

or Falmouth without some frantic last minute rostering..........no chance coz they can't even roster day to day turns!

And booked turns at that, let alone amended turns!

There is a diagram to Penzance from Exmouth so not impossible.

The Exmouth to Penzance working is crewed by Par west of Plymouth from December so it wont happen here!

Phew!

That would be an adventure!

Exeter - Barnstaple - Exmouth - Penzance  - Exeter

(think thats the diargram anyway!)

Most Cornish services are crewed by Par at some point on the Out or Return leg though are they not?

Indeed, and looking at the December diagrams I dont think its possible at all on a weekday.

(AKA the snake pit)!! Par depot's new nick name!

Exeter crew cover a Gunnislake trip, don't they?

Exeter currently have NO diagrammed Gunnislake work. However the guards are getting the last trips back from December, but drivers will still have no Gunnislake work. There are however the odd few who have kept their route knowledge up, but the unit from the last Gunnislake goes onto Laira (Par drivers only), then forms Looe in the morning (Par only), so while its not impossible it is highly highly unlikely to happen.....

Not any more! ended last December, also, 14x units are restricted to 15mph between Bere Alston and Gunny so they won't up there!

That's odd, because I was up there in April this year, and it was definitely an Exeter guard (don't know about the driver, though).

And that's significantly slower than anything else up there by how much, exactly? :P

Exeter had no booked work from December 2006, however route knowledge doesnt expire for 6 months so they have on occassions 'covered'. Yes a 142 being restricted to 15 mph from BAS to GSL wont really effect the timings, which are slack for that section anyway...

The Gunnislake line is practially a 5mph crawl as it is let alone with a 142 on it!

Quote from Insider (link below) :
http://indefenceoffirstgreatwestern.blogspot.com/2007/10/im-back.html

"With regards to Class 142s, I've also heard this Bristol rumour. Not quite sure where it came from. It's unlikely that the 142s will make it to Bristol. The 158s they are replacing came from Devon stock and there are no plans, that I now of, to divert 15X stock down to Devon tha would necessitate the pacrs going to Bristol. Time will tell I guess."

Quote from Insider (link below) :
http://indefenceoffirstgreatwestern.blogspot.com/2007/10/im-back.html

"A CLass 142 unit did work Plymouth to Exeter. This was not the plan as they wee not supposed to be going that far west but there were some stock problems and needs must when the Devil farts in your teapot as they say."

The latest RUMOUR is that Network Rail Have barred FGW from using 142's as of today, 12th November, and that FGW will now be using 150/1's instead for the new timetable. I must stress this is not confirmed, and wondered if anyone has any more info?

I hope you are right!

See my other post in "across the West", 150127 is at SPM, lookin good!

Why?

If I wanted to sit on a bus, I would!!

And what is different to the Bristol situation!

It's all very well and good, but there isn't THAT many diagrams that can easilly be worked by pacers from December in the Bristol area!

Well, apparantly they are banned from the whole of FGW, so they wouldn't be in Bristol. There are simply no good qualities that a 142 has over a 150!

How do you think the people in the Cardiff Area feel?

I don't believe for one minute that they're banned from the entire FGW network, they will no doubt be able to go wherever a 143 can!

apparentley someone has seen an internal Network Rail email ,instructing Exeter Panel not to allow them out of the depot!

I expect it's something to do with paperwork or maybe drivers havent got their PSV license which is required to drive a bus, ha ha!

The ones i've been on in cardiff are superb.

I dont really see what the fuss is all about.

Superb? I'm forever the optomist but even I can't stretch to saying they're "superb"!

Cardiff actually has seats, not bus seats :p

Very true! I forgot that little detail!

Compared to the other units round here/ the south west, they certainly are

plus the insides have been refurbed this year (i think), so they're in fairly good nick

Does this mean that FGW is suddenly going to end up with 12 sets of 150/1s or lets be fair 6 as they carry more than a two car 142? Things certainly are changing at the moment, all except of course FGW keeping the 158s!

The two 142s down at Exeter must be feeling very rejected at the moment. Destined either for the scrap heap or private railways.

I'd rather a 150/1 than a /2 and I am sure traincrew will agree with me as well....

It is believed that it was a 'paperwork' issue which has now been resolved and that crew traing resumes today so the 142s December debut is still very much on! This despite the arrival of 2 150/1s seen at Bristol yesterday.

I have it on good authority that the ban has been lifted today and that four more 142s will be nodding their way down to Devon this weekend.

Anyone confirm?

TJ

Heard the same rumour too but not from anyone who usually knows though?

From a meeting of the Avocet Rail Line Users Group (ALRUG) with FGW management last night there is now no doubt that 142s are coming to Exeter and apparently four more have already arrived, although not as yet seen by me. FGW have promised to spend some money on them to make then fit for purpose but it is questionable as to just how much can be achieved between now and 10th December. Also will all staff training have been done by then? FGW were talking about having  'contingency plans', so they must have at least some doubts about the whole operation.

The units will apparently be used on 8 daily diagrams, often in pairs but with just one Conductor and will be with us until 150s are released by the West Midland franchise in a couple of years.

Could a multitude of problems lie ahead.

TJ

Anyone for a free ride, you know where to go then! Thats the only problem with Pacers

You had better get used to them as the 172 project for the West Midlands franchise to displace the 150/1s that are coming down to the West has been delayed according to Modern Railways Tony Miles by a further 6 to 12 months. No deal has yet been signed for the building of these units.

Did the planned move of another batch of 142s happen as planned over the weekend?

Am hearing rediculous quotes on how much it is going to cost to extend St.James Park to accommodate a 4 car class 142 (they will be running in pairs). ^750k?? Never, someone is talking rubbish there surely??

The 142s are *supposed* to be making their first passenger carrying workings on 26th Nov...

Not necessarily: in 2004 eight stations on the East Kilbride line had their platforms extended "by up to forty-three metres" at a cost of ^4.2million (more than ^500k per station) - see www.spt.co.uk/news/story239.html (http://www.spt.co.uk/news/story239.html)

I always thought that the 142s were to be coupled with a half decent unit only and therefore never running on their own giving the passengers a choice of where to travel.

We all know 1 unit would be full up, and the other would have pacer cranks (is there any?!)

NO, i have seen some of the draft diagrams for december, and the only things i noticed coupled to a 142 was a 142! :o

Let's hope the put Assistant Ticket Examiners on the 142 diagrams then!

And I have seen a quote of 3 million pounds for a new station on a double track section - one million for each of the two platforms and a further million for a footbridge with all the neccesary ramps.  That related to a section where redoubling was under discussion and the suggestion was that the current single platform station that would need to be rebuilt would end up being shut down in the process.

Another example is Etruria, which closed in 2005 because it would have cost ^9m to realign the platforms after the WCML upgrade left too big a gap between trains and platforms to allow trains to stop there.

Yep! Then again, it will probabally take the Exeter chavs quite a while to think about it!

Quote from the link below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruria_railway_station

"Its train services were suspended in May 2003 during the upgrade of the West Coast Main Line. Central Trains did not restart services to Etruria when the work was finished and continued with bustitution, although First North Western reintroduced a limited service.

After already low passenger numbers dwindled even further, closure was proposed by the Strategic Rail Authority in February 2004. The closure was granted approval by the Department for Transport on 21 July 2005."

Which station were you reffering to , grahame?

In 2004, Metro (the Tyneside PTE) complained that it cost 6 times as much to install a shelter on a rail platform than at a roadside bus stop.  3 years later the industry still has not got to grips with the question of costs.   If they don't get a grip soon teh whole railway is at risk.

http://www.pteg.net/MediaCentre/02-NewsArchive/20040407-1.htm

Hi all, new to this forum but I'm gonna jump in with this as I am very concerned.
On good authority from FGW:

The 142s are not arriving in time (will they ever?) and an "emergency" timetable will be put in place come the 9th December consisting of the following:

Paignton branch - hourly (nothing new there then)
Exmouth branch - hourly!
Barnstaple Branch - road buses replace trains until further notice!!

So not only will we all be subjected to whiplash injuries (when we can find a "train", or should that be bus-on-rails or bus) but we shall have to stand at all times of the day (if we can get on in the first place that is).

To rub salt into the wound I first heard this rumour in summer '06 but didn't really (want to) believe it until I heard it again recently from someone high up in the chain shall we say (needless to say I cannot divulge for their protection), so it's not really an emergency plan but something they've known will happen for some time.

The only reason they can get away with it in Devon is because they know they can. Are you prepared to really fight for your train service? Because I think you are going to have to.

FGW have what, 6 now? plus more moving this weekend i believe

Plus if they dont get any 142's i can only assume but that would mean the 158's arnt moving anywhere...

if you got that from FGW customer "services" then from what i've dealt, most of the stuff they tend to tell you ise pure lies/confusion.

And i doubt FGW are that stupid, especially after last years fiasco. If there was a repeat i'd hope the dft would "intervene" with hopefully putting the franchise back up early, or fineing fgw.

Apparently FGW control have said that there will be a unit swap at St Davids so the "through" train to Penzance will not really be a through train at all. :o (not that the first bit would be a train at all but some sort of medieval torture device)

no they really are that stupid, they bid far too much for the franchise and are now panicking. that wasn't from customer services, it was from management.

sigh, can people please stop complaning about the quality of the 142's. I use them daily, and if properly maintained they run superbly. Clearly FGW need to take note of ATW 142 maintenance

Maintenace or not, 142s have rubbish suspension, only having a wheel on each corner as opposed to traditional  bogies for passenger stock, so people with back problems are snookered, as the previously only form of transport that wasn't agony, will soon be excrutiating. FGW have sold us devon folk down the river, especially those like me who have a back problem. They were a costcutting device in an age where any old rubbish will do (we're still in that age if anyone hadn't noticed). Maybe they should be confined to lines without jointed track (The Barnstaple, Exmouth and Paignton branches all have this, despite numerous track renewals in recent years). Maybe Exeter to Plymouth services might not be a bad idea (if such a sevice existed).

OMG you cannot be serious!!!  :D

Are you able to say who?

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?action=profile;u=99 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?action=profile;u=99)
Name:             intercity125
Posts:            5 (0.114 per day)
Position:         Newbie
Date Registered:  October 09, 2007, 20:51:21
Last Active:      October 10, 2007, 20:22:17
Lasted a day... (http://users.teledisnet.be/web/mde28256/smiley/troll_1.gif)

I think you could be right there.

The way I read it is that the 158s go regardless of whether the 142s are down in Devon or not. When the original rolling stock allocation for FGW was decided at the time of awarding the franchise it was agreed between FGW and DaFT that they didnt need the amount of stock that Wessex had on its books, hence the loss of a batch of 150s and 153s last December and a fleet of 158s this December.
Sadly, many replies tend to be very robotic and generic though I guess with the amount of complaints they must have to deal with that is the only way to deal with them.
You'd think so, but after the farcical situations that happened last December don't take it for granted that all will go well especially if the above rumour about bustitution is true. Be sure that the media will jump on that and make a story out of it.

Welcome to the site.

I wouldn't be surprised if what you've written happens as it appears that not many 142s have made the journey down South yet with talk that the two original units were heading back north! Only two weeks till the start of the new timetable and thats when the lease ends on the fleet of 158s thats leaving.

Anyone able to update us with how many 142s are now down in Exeter?

Glad someone else agrees!

I'm not - *quite* - so sure having reviewed his / her five posts.  Differing views and a drole sense of humour, I'm sure ... but I can find a home for 2 x 142 units - The 06:00 and hourly to 21:00 services from Westbury to Swindon, and 07:10 and hourly to 22:10 returns ... yes, these are trains that don't currently run, but Wiltshire Council (seen under FOI) has revelaed them to be an appropriate level of service.

They are certainly in a position on this franchise that they cannot provide anything like the same level of service that they're providing on TransPenine and in Scotland ... and that's from an authoritative source within the company.   Talking to me about how routes have a service to which descriptions such as "shameful" could be applied.

We received a similiar tip - off last December / January , around the time of the temporary bustitution of the Looe Valley and St Ives branchlines due to "a shortage of serviceable trains" (in fact , they had been nicked by Andrew Griffiths in order to "safeguard" Bristol services.)




I know this isnt the quiz section , but here's a question for you all :

Who said the following in November 2005?

"We^ve put in a stunning bid for Greater Western. I^d be gobsmacked if we don^t win it, but I guess somebody might have come in with a crazy bid."

I have back problems, and have NEVER had an issue with the 142 ;)

Andrew Haines, when he was still with SWT!

Close. It was Andrew Haines , after he had been put in charge of First Group^s rail operations (link below.)
http://railpro.co.uk/issues/pdfs/nov05haines.pdf

Some other very interesting quotes in there as well.....

This from a named source:

Lets hope Julian is correct , and we dont get a repeat of last year.

Last I heard from a manager is that only 10 158's going back, BUT to East Midlands Trains and Scotrail, Northern are having to take some of their 142's out of store for their own use? that didn't come from a great source though (not a senior manager).

I think the worst feature of the 142's that we've aquired is that they still have bus seats! if they refurbished them then they would probably be OK.

Andrew Griffiths says its 10 going back , and the rest of the above quote is doing the rounds on more than one forum at the moment.

If only 10 158's go we already have four more units than we thought we'd lose, with 150/1's so we might be in luck if all the 142's turn up.

Wearing my Global Moderator hat :

We dont mind if members dont name their sources (there are often good reasons for not doing so) but we do prefer if members make it clear whether information is a rumour or something more than that.

Virtually all of you adhere to this anyway.

It was said at the time that National Express walked away from continued negoiations over this franchise. Hmmmm I wonder why??????

First HAD to keep this franchise and appeared to have been willing to pay any price for it. GW was their jewel in the crown as it was their only IC London line (i.e Profitable!) in their franchise portfolio at the time and had to take on the Wessex part as it was an all or nothing deal. Of course as well all know its the Wessex part of this franchise that causes most of FGW's problems and where they thought they could make the biggest cuts because its the loss making part of the franchise. And yes, for all you London commuters I know your Thames services ain't too great either.

Exactly.

ATW 142s are not bad for the journeys they do, a 142 has bus seats and timekeeping between Exeter and Torquay will ne appauling if accleration is like anything I have heard...

In principle, neither do I, but...


...I'd prefer it if these rumours from 'management' didn't turn out to be a consignment of geriatric shoe manufacturers quite so often!

These days most buses have better seats than the 142s do!

To quote Hansard , I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave on 17 November 2007.......

went on a thames turbo this week and not too impressed......much better prefer The 143s in bristol with the chipman {i think }seats

hee hee

Now spend 2.5 hours on one!

I'll be a total vegetable and correct you there, "Chapman" seats.

I find the interior seating on the 143's perfectly acceptable, and for units which (hopefully) will be replaced by cascaded 150s in a couple of years perfectly acceptable for the sort of use they get. Refurbing the interiors seems a bit of a waste of money to me. (I agree that some of the other units are well overdue a refresh.) I'd rather see the money spent on some other improvements though.

As an aside I had a real nostalgia trip yesterday, travelling back from Cardiff on the ex Virgin Mk 2 set after the Wales - SA match. All seats had tables, windows all lined up, and yes it did look a little worn, but I bet if you put new seat covers on and polled 100 customers which they preferred, that or a refurbed Mk 3, the Mk 2s would win.  Sorry, veering off topic from Class 142's a bit I know.

No No!!!!!!!!!!!! and i stand corrected chapman seats............incidentally spent some time in the summer running around on 158s with rubbish aircon not pleasant....give me a 143 with all the windows open on a hot day even when it was rammed it was still reasonable much better than a b****Y turbo!!!

Well there are plenty of Mk2s hanging around that could be put back into service and as Virgin showed a few years back, you can refurb them to a pretty high standard. With plenty of spare DVTs also available all you would need is a loco to haul them. The one draw back is the much higher charge by Network rail for running them as there is more wear and tear on the track than what you get from a DMU, that is except unless you are talking about 142/143s on Devon and Cornwall branchlines!

Virtually all Mk3 ex-Virgin coaching stock is being put back in service. A few years ago they were talking about them being scrapped if they didnt find new homes. What a huge waste that would have been  :o

I totally agree with you when you say that most people would say they much preferred a 'traditional train' of loco and coaches over a cramped DMU.

I agree, although I was actually comparing the ambience and comfort of travelling in the Mk2 with recent trips to Paddington on a refurbed Mk 3. I suspect if they were "refurbed to a high standard" we would get hard high seats, no windows lined up, and no tables. And it would cost a fortune, so couldn't be justified, and wouldn't be done, which is a shame.

Of course, it's unrealistic to expect the stock to replace multiple unit stock except on exceptional ocassions (such as the summer Weymouth service). I suppose I'm trying to consider what are customers' priorities when spending decisions are made. Is it that they travel in a train that has a brand spanking new interior, or that the money has been spent on keeping more rolling stock in service, resulting in less overcrowding and more services.

An example of this is that XC are going to refurb their newly acquired Mk3s "to the same high standard as the Voyager fleet". Apart from debating whether it will be an improvement, most passengers would be more than happy to have them introduced now and overcrowding reduced. And the money saved could be spent on bringing back into service a few Mk 2s to operate some relief services at busy periods.         

After travelling on Loco-Hauled Ex-Virgin MK2's a couple of weeks ago in cornwall I say it would brilliant to bring loco-hauled MK2's back, theres plenty of DVT's and 47's around so why not use them on Portsmouth-Cardiff, would work brilliantly. At table seating, lots of luggage space, just as high speed, no overcrowding and it would solve the problem of stock shortage on the west fleet.

Also needs crew training, a face lift, relivery, depot facilities, fitting for DVT use.

Don't forget a lot of 47s havn't been touched for a few years.

Its all means ^ which FGW are giving to the some DafT idiot at the DfT

I'm not sure how many are there now, but there are definately more than the 2 on Exeter depot, that were there when i was last in work on Thursday!

This is true, but the seating on the 142s at Exeter is BAD.

3 came down this weekend.

May still be going.

that would bring the total to what, 9?

The adelantes are rumoured to be coming back in 2009 to FGW, after whats called "extensive" modifications, so maybe they're for cardiff > PM?

2009...we need then now!

Extensive modifications? Wonder if thats removing the seats in 1st class and replacing them with standard class seats? Am I right in saying that 180s can only run as a complete 5 car set and that you cannot remove any carriages?

for all of the negative points of a 142, they are quite quick at accellerating, more so than a 153 anyway!

NX didn't walk away from the franchise neither did Stagecoach, all bids were submitted and First won, no behind the scene scandal, no DFT throwing toys out of prams etc etc...

I suggested removal of 1 car on the "Indefenceoffirstgreatwestern" website, and Insider confirmed that they have to run as 5 cars. Though I guess "extensive modification" could change that.

I thought that was the case.

I believe thats the case, maybe that could be what the modifications are for? binning 1 of the cars to make them 4 cars, so they can do every station down the line? (unsure what the station max length is on cardiff > pompey)

I'm sure ATW would happily take on the carriges, as iirc they're interchangeable

Where is this rumour from? Word of mouth or a blog?

wikipedia page on the adelante

Thats what i read it as anyway, wikipedia does tend to be fairly reliable for Rail things

As far as I could see in the evening gloom there were 6 x 142s on Exeter depot Sunday. One by the fuelling point, one inside the depot and four nearer to the station.

TJ

All stations on the Cardiff-Pompey should be able to accomodate five car trains (not Dilton Marsh of course) as that was the normal length when the 33s and Mk1s operated along this route.

Don't think it really matters for Adelantes as they have SDO don't they??

The one day that the DafT weren't actually throwing their toy trains out of the pram across a map of the UK then?

To remove a car on the 180s would probably require a massive rewrite of the computer. 1 less engine etc and generally new trains use computers for such silly things.

I'd say better to keep the first class carriage and bring first class back to this line. You may get business travellers using the service between Cardiff-Bristol-Southampton if first class is returned.

There are a number of platforms on the Cardiff Portsmouth route that are too short for 5 cars - Trowbridge in the Bristol direction and Warminster for example. However, Adelantes do have SDO so it should be possible for them to call at short length platforms as they do at e.g. Kintbury and Bedwyn.

Welcome to the forum Westernchallenger.

Another 3 were heading south today making a total of 9 so far.

Latest rumour is that FGW have secured an extra 5 142's, to take the total to 17(when they all arrive). Which units and where from I don't know. Should be no excuse for short formations in the new december workings, as the diagrams were based on 12 142's..........unless something else we haven't heard about is leaving us! Anyone else heard anything to back up this RUMOUR?

Does anyone have a record of which individual units were originally allocated to the West Country in the eighties?

TJ

142015-142027 I think.

Another three 142s came south on 1st December making a total of 12.

could be as a result of northern 142s that get doubled to make up for capacity that the 158's now do as 1 unit? Plus iirc northern are moving 20 into storage (inc fgw's 12)

Will be interesting to see what happens...

Northern were going to move the 142's in to store but they were forced to give them to FGW.

At least one 142 was in traffic around Exeter today, any stories??

142064 did the 15:55 BNP to EXM today :) Am hearing rumors of one causing chaos on the Barny branch, but no further details at present....

142023 worked the 0841 Barnstaple-Exmouth (it left Barnstaple full and standing), which (I've heard) failed somewhere after Exeter.
Touch wood it's not a 142 on the 0841 tomorrow... (http://www.takeforum.com/forum/images/smiles/2bounce.gif)

I had to go up to Exeter this morning and as usual I headed for Topsham with a view to catching the 11:02 (10:50 from Exmouth). On walking over the level crossing I noticed that the Exmouth bound 10:32 service was sat waiting patiently at the signal, so I quickly bought myself a ticket from the machine and waited. Another traveller came forward with the information the 10:33 Exeter bound train was 20 to 25 minutes late.

At around 10:55 in trundled 142028 but with only the front carriage in use; the rear car was empty apart from two members of staff riding shotgun to ensure that no passengers entered. Speaking to the person sitting next to me I established that the train had failed at Lympstone and had sat there for twenty minutes. At some point all the passengers in the rear car had been asked to move to the front car, after which the train was restarted. In itself that doesn^t make too much sense and there must be more to the story. Anyway we proceeded to Exeter Central where the train was terminated in bay platform One, a rare use of this platform.

FGW had, to their credit, sent up a dog box (153370) to Platform 3 and those, like me, who were heading for St Davids transferred across for this leg. The 153 terminated at St Davids and what had happened to the onward service to Paignton I know not. The interior of the 153 was disgusting, I have seen better vehicles in a car scrap yard. This standard is just not acceptable.

Going back to the 142, being my first experience I was interested to observe the ride quality, noise level and interior. On the first leg from Topsham the ride over the 60^ jointed track as far as the M5 bridge was awful, much more of that and nausea bags would have been needed. I feared the worst for the next section of jointed track from beyond Digby to Polsloe but the ride was not bad at all, certainly it would be difficult to complain about. The overall noise level was far better than what I remember from travelling on the 143s in the Bristol and Cardiff areas or on 144s in the north. Perhaps the fact that I was somewhat bunged up with a heavy cold had something to do with it. Remarkably I did not hear a single wheel squeal. Whilst the bus seats are far from inviting it would be harsh to say that they would be uncomfortable over short journeys and the visibility from them is excellent unlike other FGW seats that I could mention.

On this short experience it looks like the unreliability factor is likely to be the main bone of contention but I want to experience a few more trips over the whole of Exmouth Branch before drawing too many conclusions. I am sure that Exeter Depot will do their utmost to provide a reliable service but it may well a ^mission impossible^ which will be just that; only time will tell.

As best as I could see there are still only nine 142 units at Exeter but as they are tucked away here there and everywhere I can^t be sure on this.

--
TJ

Many thanks for your report on your journey today. Without wishing to draw too many conclusions its not a very good start is it? My sympathies go out to all you who use the Exmouth-Barnstaple-Paignton lines. I have a feeling many stories of travelling woe on these lines are going to appear on this and other sites over the coming months.

Its certainly right that FGW haven't raised the fares on these lines.

In my previous posting reference to Platform 3 at Cental should have been Platform 2 and as regards the number of 142s some others may of course have been out and about. :-[

TJ

3 142's were in service(almost) today. They caused chaos! Numerous cancellations and delays, ask any passenger on the Exmouth line between 8 and 9 this morning. Can't wait til the rest appear from Sunday :-[

See my quote in '142's not arriving???'. Sorry don't know how to move it here! Perhaps one of the moderators could?

Yes ... except I'm not totally sure which post you would like quoted!!!

If you hit "reply" in the OTHER thread, grab the text you want into your paste buffer including the quote tags, then cancel out of that post and come back here, and paste the buffer in your reply it should work.

Dire reliabilty so far! wonder how many trains will be caped on monday!

Monday, I can see is going to be CHAOS:

Lack of SDO training;
142 reliability;
Lack of units in service;

I'm sure there is more!

Anybody been in Devon today seing the effects of fully operational 142 service. Would like to hear any storys of failures or peeved commuters.

For the sake of the commuters and users ... I would hope to here reports of how well it all went  ;D - hopefully better down in Devon than on my local line which has yet to see a weekday passenger train under the new timetable.

Sadly I don't get the train to school but Graham i'd much rather have your 143/150 on the 'Devon Metro'  ;D

  http://markthomasdilworth.fotopic.net/p12888574.html (http://markthomasdilworth.fotopic.net/p12888574.html)

142 report 10th December 2007

I bought an Exmouth to St Davids season ticket to enable me to ride the Avocet Line this week.

First journey was the 06:05 from Exmouth which turned out to be 153377, in what is now typical lousy internal condition. On arrival at Exeter it took some time to move the unit from Platform 3 to enable 142068 + 142009 to arrive to form the 06:45 back to Exmouth and in consequence departure was 7 minutes late. The floors inside both units were swimming with water and later in the journey the source was detected as water was seen cascading from between roof panels. Coupled with a near lack of heating this was not the best of starts, in fact it was thoroughly miserable. Arrival at Exmouth was 9 down.

Returning from Exmouth on the 07:15 door problems were experienced and so as to keep to my planned schedule I alighted at Polsloe rather than go through to Central as the train was by then 19 minutes late.
The 07:49 from St Davids left Polsloe 7 down, 142062+142030, and maintained that deficit to Exmouth.
The return 08:20 from Exmouth was 7 late leaving but only 3 down at St Davids.

Next trip was the 09:18 from St Davids which left on time with 142030 and was 2 early into Exmouth.  The return 09:50 left on time but dropped 4 minutes to Exeter Central.

The 10:24 from Central with 142067+142029 was 2 down from Central and into Exmouth.

Next leg was to take the return working through to Barnstaple with the 10:50 from Exmouth and this left Exmouth just a minute adrift and arrived 3 late into St Davids, where it terminated as the driver taking the train onto Barnstaple did not sign 142s. 150232 appeared and worked the service onto Barnstaple, leaving 6 late and arriving just a minute adrift. Very comfortable journey.

The return from Barnstaple at 14:29 was late coming in and left 20 late. It was further delayed at Eggesford waiting for the 13:50 from Exmouth (see below) and on arrival at St Davids was terminated in Platform 2. It had recovered to being just20 late.

Final leg for the day was the 16:20 from St Davids to Exmouth, which was just a couple of minutes adrift.
The 13:50 from Exmouth had a BBC Spotlight crew on board and did neither itself nor FGW any favours by having both door and AWS problems, eventually slinking into St Davids about 40 down.  Not good publicity.

All in all a mixed day with the overall standard of reliability leaving something to be desired. In another thread I have already said that the ride quality of the 142s is very much dependent on track quality and so it was today. The interior of the 142s leaves much to be desired but in fairness to FGW they have yet undertake planned refurbishment work. Having four car units on the busier trains was certainly good news.

I fear that FGW are onto a revenue hiding to nothing as apparently on a four car set where there is only one conductor he/she must remain in the rear car. At least some staff feel that it is unfair to be hard on passengers in the rear unit when those in the front one are probably riding for free.

Passenger reaction to the 142s was broadly 8 out of 10 unfavourable.

Next trips planned for Wednesday.

Hope this has been of interest.
TJ.

It was good watching Spotlight last night  ;D

What did they say on spotlight considering there bad experience.

Somebody said it was like travelling on a bus. Spot on.

Described as state of the art in the 80s! Sums up the 80s.

Shows the door going bang.

Also some Spotlight reporter 'understanding' what AWS was.

The conductor on the train only started last week.....bet he was praying for a smooth trip!

he was an ATE before though.

by the lack of posts the 142s must be behaving then

havnt seen many service reports on broken down trains, so they must be *touch wood*

Either that or they have a huge amount of maintenance nightly

I'm off work at mo, so can't comment

What was that old bus like tain I caught from BTM last night about 6:45.
Looked ancient, seats in banks of three, and maps of london rail lines inside the carriage. Was that a 142?

that'd be one of the silverlink 150/1's

No, that was one of two ex Silverlink Class 150/1 on long term hire from errrm, whoever it belonged to for about 2 days after the franchise changes in that area in November. Positively luxurious compared with a Class 142. The only bit of rolling stock that FGW has been able to nab of late, so don't knock it!

Saw them today in all there glory at Exeter...They actually dont look too bad considering, biggest problem is the bus seats, fitting some chapman seats like the 143s in Bristol  and they would be OK

I managed several more Avocet 142 journeys last week after my last report and found that in addition to the generally appreciated problems as regards ride quality, seating etc., the standard of heating and draught protection is abysmal. By far the worst experience was on the last train from Barnstaple to Exmouth on Wednesday, which I joined at Eggesford. Frankly the average Eskimo would have refused to travel on that unit. The conductor who was wearing a heavy top coat disappeared into her cabin and was never seen again between stations and who is can blame her, certainly not me.

As I have said before, the staff at Exeter will do their utmost to make these units perform but there is an old adage about silk purses and sows' ears.

Talking to staff today it seems that despite the cold weather we have actually been fortunate as regards the clmate. Apparently the units are far from waterproof; time will tell.

TJ

Does anybody know if the 11:20 Exmouth-Paignton M-F service is booked as a 142?

They all are, apart from the diagram that comes from Penzance

I believe the 1120 is deffo 142.

Thanks, I just have never experienced a pacer and this will probably be the only chance I'll get.

I hear it said a 'orrible 142 made it's way to Par today.

Can someone confirm?

The 142's are a Heap they were back in Mid 80's and nothing has changed, not on the Exeter 142 anyway, and talk of endurance I spent 14 hours on a class 142 once, NEVER AGAIN.

I think i'd go mad if I spent 14 hours on any unit! (apart from a 117) what happened? fall asleep on it or something?

Go to the Plymouth and CORNWALL topic and you'l find a fot of the 142 in CORNWALL! this is the devon topic!

Yes, it made it to St.Austell on the 16:03 ex Exeter St.Dvds. Shunted out into the refuge siding, waited for the 18:50 St.Austell to Paddington to leave then ran ECS to Par, crew had PNB and it worked 20:04 Par to Exeter St.Dvds, but as Vacman says this is mentioned elsewhere... So anyway, where is the other part of 117305???

Where is 117305? did it get scrapped? For those of you wondering, 117305 was the chocolate and cream DMU that ran around in whats now the FGW area until 1997, does anybody know it's fate??

Just wanted to mention something I noticed on Friday on the 17h24 Saint James Park to Exmouth.

This train is usually 2 x class 142 these days (4 cars). This means it is too long for the platform and so only the very front door is opened and everybody gets on / off through this one door. Importantly, it seems that only one of the two leaves of this front door can be opened when it is the only door in use. There may be good historical reasons for this (safety if the driver has to go trackside perhaps?) but it is far from ideal for getting passengers on and off and no comfort to people who get left behind on platforms......

On Friday there was a woman with a pushchair on the platform but she couldn't get on because the pushchair would not fit through the narrow gap. She discussed things with the guard for a couple of minutes but the end result was that the train left without her and her child. My understanding of the guard's explanation was that there was absolutely nothing he could do to override the door mechanism and open the 2nd leaf! No, there was no fault, he said, that's just the way it is!!!!!

I shall resist the temptation for a Victor Meldrew style rant at how crazy this is and wonder instead what FGW could do to improve this state of affairs:

1) lengthen the platform (OK its not going to happen - but in a sane world.....)

2) alter the door mechanism so that the doors on unit A could be opened independently of those on unit B (OK maybe this is more technically challenging than it sounds....)

3) alter the door mechanism so that either one or both leaves of a single door can be opened by the guard when he is present at that door. (this wouldn't be too hard - would it?)

Any thoughts?

Um, was the child asleep?  What about taking the child out of the pushchair and folding the pushchair down........

I've taken my children on the train from time to time and usually folded the pushchair as otherwise it just get's in everyone's way.

And if you substitute 'pushchair' with 'wheelchair'...?

Yeah - fair point about folding the pushchair - I guess no one thought of that! ;)

But I still think it would be an improvement if more than a single leaf could be opened.

...and i was just about to make the wheelchair point too!

Hee hee - I guess I am a bit of a veteran when it comes to dealing with the logistics of children....

With regards to wheelchairs, I've only been on one of these trains once so I am just trying to picture the inside, is there space for wheelchairs at all?  I.e. could someone be wheeled on to one and have a space to be placed?

I do agree that all trains should have wide enough doors to accomodate "wheeled" transport in all it's guises though.

Yes - there's actually a fair amount of wheelchair / cycle space on a 142 and I have seen it used (by a wheelchair!) on the Exmouth line. The train carries a portable ramp to get over what would otherwise be an impassable step to platform level.

Being devils advocate......

Do you think a wheelchair passenger would choose St James Park as access is by a VERY steep slope on the Up side, and steps on the Down side.

I should say that the situation is far from perfect for all the reasons mentioned by the OP.

We have to remember FGW do not own these units, they sub lease them from Northern, who lease them from a leaseco - so they can't just do what they like. It all has to be agreed, engineered, tested, validated, implemented. It all costs money and would probably take longer than we will hopefully have these units.

But without modification to the units, this means just one leaf of the door.

On Saturday a 4 car stopped with all doors open heading into Exeter, is the down platform shorter?

The Down (into Exeter) is longer and can take 2x142 (4 cars) or 3cars of anything else in normal operation. so what your saw was correct.

Up platform is much shorter and can only take a 142 or 150 (2cars) with the drivers cab on the ramp, 2 x153 or anything else requires local door only as the back would be off the platform.

If the access ramp to  a station is steeper than a certain gradient (not sure of the exact figures) then the station is not wheelchair accessible, Carbis bay is one, it is phisicly possible to push a wheelchair up/down it but it's not deemed safe, Falmouth Town is another.

I think the figure is 1 in 10, or 10% in euro speak.

I understand st james will  have  a temp longer platform soon
and yes it is  correct that only one leaf can be opened ie no selective opening

That would be great. I hope its true. Do you know when it might happen?

Would such a temporary platform extension ever become permanent I wonder.....

p.s. thanks everyone for your technical info in reply to my original post. Much appreciated!

Thanks to a lead from gaf71, here are a couple of links that will be of interest.
http://www.itvlocal.com/westcountry/news/?player=WCT_news_26&void=103219

http://www.itvlocal.com/westcountry/news/?player=WCT_news_26&void=143559

I've never been able to copy from their website, which is awful as the videos don't work well on Firefox!

One from the BBC
http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?scope=all&tab=av&recipe=all&q=experts+question+1980s+trains&x=0&y=0

Thanks for posting this for me Lee, wasn't sure how to do it as i'm a computer moron!

Anyone interested in the quality of the ride on a 142 should check out the second link which was filmed on the Barnstaple branch.

I can see why they call them nodding donkeys. I found it amusing that both BBC and ITV filmed the join between the two carriages to demonstrate how much they move around whilst in motion.

I've worked almost 10 hours on one of these today.....I've got home and i can hardly stand through backache and sore knees...no wonder we cant wait for the refurbed units to show up. Or any unit other than a 142!

I had a friend visiting today who is an Exeter driver who says he gets terrible backache after driving 142s. And he spend a lot of his time driving them, as must do a lot of his colleagues. 

Hey, that would be a shame if drivers refused to work 142's on health and safety grounds! It happened before when the 153's were first introduced, drivers refused to drive from the small (new) cab as it was too small, and for months they had to go around in pairs with the small cabs buried! Don't know how they finally sorted it out?

Well either they will refuse to, or eventually they will all be signed off? Presumably a lot of track on the routes makes for an enjoyable bouncy ride. The alternative is they get put onto the main line where the track geometry is better, but please don't anyone suggest Bristol services.

Best bit of TV comedy I've been in ages. Who was that foolish "train designer" from about a million miles up country who said that we "sort of accepted" it was ok to remove tables from HSTs in favour of more compact seating?

I'm very glad to see that Nick Harvey has found his voice in this finally.  :-\ Wondered when we were gonna hear from him.

Why do the BBC show a sprinter at the end of there report while talking about pacers?

As well as this, a couple of links to Uncyclopedia (a joke version of Wikipedia where facts are "no-no") might amuse you all:

*Worst Late Western- general micky take of FGW: http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Worst_Late_Western

*Railway ("modern trains" chapter especially)- a micky take of "Splinters" and "Gaycers," as well as Virgin "Vomiters": http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Railway#Modern_trains

I found these by chance a while back and found them very good. There are also pages on Connex.

Nick Harvey wrote this in the North Devon Journal a couple of weeks back: (Full article is here (http://www.thisisnorthdevon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=198330&command=displayContent&sourceNode=198787&contentPK=19638994&folderPk=96523&pNodeId=252056))


His argument loses its potency a little when you realise that the fares on the Tarka line are actually now among the cheapest in the country, and were unchanged (and some went down!) in January.

His article generated a few follow-up letters.  This one (http://www.thisisnorthdevon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=198348&command=displayContent&sourceNode=198336&contentPK=19713290&moduleName=InternalSearch&formname=sidebarsearch) from John Gulliver, and another (http://www.thisisnorthdevon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=198348&command=displayContent&sourceNode=198336&contentPK=19786312&moduleName=InternalSearch&formname=sidebarsearch) from Patrick Adams have, to all intents and purposes, called for most of the stations between Barnstaple and Exeter to be closed in order to speed up the service.

Jacobs and the DfT have already considered this, the draft December 2006 timetable (later substantially altered) would have provided a template for it and I am sure that there will be further proposals of this nature put forward in the future.

Exeter Depot are apparantly looking at replacing the drivers seating on 142s after complaints. Also bear in mind the air duct from the roofing panels in the cab often lets in exhaust fumes, not to mention to the naff cab heaters (let along the passengers!!!)

If your REALLY bored then look at this, http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=P8jmgowXlyw ummm screw loose maybe?

:o  Help!  :o

YUP!!!!!! Some people got too much time on their hands!

I wasnt a great fan of the original song....

Same here, but this ones even worse!!

 :D There used to be one about pacer doors  :o

Vacman, you know how small the small cab is on a 153, well the drivers refused to work the units because the cab was only about 1/2 the depth it is now they had to go back to works for reworking.

Do the 153's still have the Riveted cover above the exit doors, that covers over that shocking word "LEYLAND"

Explains why the cab extends into the passenger saloon, hence slow loading times.

I think you may find that 153 "small" cabs were always the same size as they are now, the agreement reached was that the units wouldn't be used on long distance services.

Also, if the cab was "half" the depth than it currently is then it would only be about 2 ft from the back of the seat to the front of the desk! physicly impossible to fit anyone into!

Thats why they refused to work them, think the cabs were increased in depth by about 200mm.

The only thing I was aware of was that a piece was cut out of the desk to allow more leg room.

This is better, (nothing to do with Nodding Donkeys) http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iN7naLLeB0A

Them were the days.

Recent Parliamentary Written Answer :

Rail passengers can expect cancelled services and overcrowded trains when First Great Western relocates five of its carriages to a northern firm, campaigners have warned (link below.)
http://thisisdevon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=141507&command=displayContent&sourceNode=257390&home=yes&more_nodeId1=257393&contentPK=20095835

They are angry that FGW plans to send five of 12 Pacer units to Northern Rail and say it could create misery on the lines which run from Exeter to Exmouth, Barnstaple and Paignton - especially at peak times.

But the company insists the lost carriages will be replaced by units which are currently out of service for an upgrade.

See quote below for background :

Would this be something to do with the daft?

Funny this now everyone loves 142s!!!........think it was well documented from the very start of the arrival of the Pacers that 5 were only on short term lease and would be going back.

Just goes to show how desperate things are on the FGW region that we hate the thought of losing anymore rolling stock even if we knew it was going to happen as in the case of the 5 142s heading back up north later in the year. Any rolling stock is better than severe overcrowding and people being left behind at stations.

This is VERY bad news. 2 car pacers simply cannot suffice even during off peak often!

Unless we get 5 replacement 150s its going to be a nightmare.

Is this the same local rag that had the headline "train company introduces inferior rolling stock"? They just cant win!

The 5 x 142's which are going "Up North" were only ever on short term lease and were "loaned" from Northern Rail whilst class 158's were being refurbed. So what is actually happening is 142's are going back to the company where they belong and FGW are going to get some nice clean 158's.  :)
Feel sorry for us northerners who have had to make do without these units for some time now   :(

Welcome to the forum, Manchester Picc.

Welcome Manchester Piccadilly. I hate to contradict someone's first post, but I thought the 142's were off lease, as Northern had replaced them with 158s?

Yeh, but Northen didn't get as many 158's as they were getting so they get some of the 142's.

All of the Class 142 units are currently on lease with either FGW, ATW or Northern Rail.

Why doesn't the paper say that FGW are getting 158s to compensate?

They've already got the 158's! the nodding donkeys are only covering whilst our fleet is in for refurb, currently 5 units at a time, so come October we won't be better or worse off. Are the Northerners forgetting that it's because they got our 158's that we've been dumped with their four wheeled crap!!!!!!

Sure it isn't a comic?

... i know im a little late but... if the 158's were being refitted would you use the only option you have the 142's on longish distance routes (the 158 routes) or would you replace the 158's with the 150's and 153's which you already have and as a short term measure wack the pacers which are fit for purpose onto the branchlines?

maybee its just me but im sure like 10 class 101's could have been brought out of retirement... bonus is that there not restricted to 2 car units you can wack 2 coaches in the middle or couple together

yeh im being nostalgic

bring back the 101's !!!!!!!!!

101s don't have CDL, OTMR and probably not TPWS

^

Not to mention the fact none are mainline registered anymore.

ahhh i beg to differ they were in main line use until late 2003... they have all the safty features im 99.999999% sure!!

They quite simply don't  :)

Liam is correct, they almost definately do not have CDL

i was drunk again last night...

well they were in mainline use until 2003 thinking about it that was a whi;e ago now but some are still in use as sandite and other trains

Not anymore....

im going to start checking before i open my mouth....

bring them back anyway!

Sure, give us the money.

Nice idea, in fact I still have the neccessary FG1 master key. ;)

However even if you could find enough of them in preservation to re-aquire, they do not have CDL, OTMR, TPWS etc and it would cost a small fortune to fit them up as the development costs and paperwork will be spread over a small fleet. Plus a little bit of staff re-training. So its a non runner.

Let me see if I can work that little lot out:

OTMR On Train Monitoring Recorder
TPWS Train Protection and Warning System
CDL Central Door Locking
FG1 Dunno that one!

I have added the OTMR and TPWS on to our acronyms page:
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/acronyms.html
and if you can tell me what the FG1 stands for I'll add that too!

Although there may be issues with 101s, there are already previous generation units re-operating on Princes Risborough to Aylesbury,  to Cardiff Bay, and they haven't every left the Brockenurst to Lyminton service.  They there's Ryde Pier Head to Shanklin.  Perhaps the idea's not as crazy as it might (at first) sound.

Ryde Pier Head to Shanklin is a very different case to all of the other mentioned stock. They had CDL from their work with LUL, and were proven to work for many years on the Northern Line. All the other lines are purely segregated lines (single line) and no other stock operates on them while the Mk1 units are in operation.

Unless you can guarantee nothing else on the line will operate other than the 101s, then nope - you cannae run them.

we should start a new thread ...'lex's stupid not atall thought out dreams'

tell you what if i win the lottery i will buy a 101 and refit it !

 ;D

Curiously - where there's a will, there's a way.   I can think of some FGW, self contained branch lines that a 101 could run on as "only train" and release stock for elsewhere. In one or two cases, the "heritage effect" would probably encourage more traffic too.

As can I, however I quite agree that the cost of doing so is too prohibitive as FGW have a too high premium to pay back to the govt.

Interesting subject, Arriva, under Graeme Bunker, bought a class 121 (or 122,not sure) bubble car, refitted it with TPWS, OTMR and CDL and was still deemed to be cheaper than leasing a class 142 pacer over the period of the franchise, as we know, Chiltern had already done the same a couple of years before. a class 101 or 108 would be ideal for the Looe or Newquay branches!

where is daisy these days? i used to catch that one from rose hill to manchester p quite alot

those were comfortable seats!!

'FG1 key' is the control key for 'Blue Square' type heritage DMMU's used for switching in the drivers desk. Looks like the ignition key for a Morris Minor rather than the standard master key used on other traction units.

Only the St Erth-St Ives branch suggests itself. Par - Newquay and Liskeard - Looe are shared with other traffic / non OTO branchlines. Devon branchlines require varying amounts of main line running. The unit also will need to run ECS to a depot off the branchline for servicing / maintainance.

The Arriva and Chiltern DMU's can run anywhere, the safety case restrictions only apply to passenger workings, the Arriva bubble has been all over the network on route learners etc so ECS moves to and from depots wouldn't be a problem, also sharing the line with other traffic wouldn't be a problem as both the Arriva and Chiltern bubbles run over routes with other trains.

Class 121 unit if I remember correctly. The unit is indeed fitted with CDL, TPWS OTMR etc, but you will find that some of the passenger doors have been welded up to simplify the fitting of CDL locks of magnetic type. ATW have also bought the two former Severn Tunnel emergency ex 121 cars as a source of spare parts, noteably engines, bogies, transmissions etc.

I think you will have to rule out class 108's however as they are deemed 'Lightweight', stencilled as such and were deemed unable to meet the end-loadings applicable to other units such as class 101. Only 80 tonnes at buffer height, even the 142's will take 150 tonnes buffing load at coupler / headstock height.

Sorry to bring us back to this but does no one else think this links to electricfication. the best way of getting rid of the pacers and having rolling stock would be a cascade. For example if the Midland main line was electricfied HST and long merdians could go to Cross country letting voyagers take over routes like Liverpool-Norwich,Cardiff-Nottingham,Cardiff-Portsmoth and Birmingham-Stanstead in that order cascading 158s and turbostars to get rid of pacers for eternity! :D(except as fairground rides) ;D AND there would be more capacity.

What about the "soon to arrive" Turbo units? ( class 172's I believe )

If they are coming, they will relieve the 158's, which will in turn relieve the 150's, which will then relieve the 142's?

If you're talking about the ones mentioned in the last few days for the Cardiff-Portsmouth run then the tender hasn't been published yet, let alone an order placed, let alone built. Quite how these can arrive any faster than the anticipated cascade of Class 150s from London Midland beats me. But it would still be an excellent result if they arrived at the same time (mid 2010) instead of the cascade.

Incidentally, with electrification of the Glasgow - Edinburgh, Dunblane and Cumbernauld routes likely to happen, that could release a reasonable quantity of half decent rolling stock by 2012. Though I expect the pressure will be to keep the decent stuff in Scotland and cascade the older stuff.     

Scotrail's "older" stuff is in the guise of class 156's which are I believe the most reliable DMU's in the UK??? and are relatively comfortable, won't turn my nose up at them!

agreed class 156 are a cracking dmu far better reliability than the stuff we have got,another plus point is the disabled access toilet.

I agree with Northerner link, it does come down to electrification. There is no point in building a large number of new DMUS with 30 years life when there are plenty of units with 20 years life that would be displaced by electrification. Once the major routes are electrified and long distance trains are back to loco hauled there be sufficient newish DMUs to run the branches for 20/30 years when who knows we might have fuel cell powered units.

As I've said before don't hold your breath on new units and I wouldn't be surprised if the cascades are changed when any new units are delivered. until then it's a case of rearanging the deckchairs on the Titantic.

Electrification is probably at least ten years off, so by then the 15x units will be pretty much life expired so our new units now will then be cascaded to places that will never be electrified such as rural Wales, Cornwall and Devon Branches also places such as the far north of Scotland, so building new units now does actually make sense.

Yes but building new units dampens cases for elctrification. A perfect example of this is the snow hill lines. In a few years the 172s will be full to the brim out of birmingham, everyone will winge at the dft and the lines will not be electrified. However if the lines were electrified then the new units could go to Northern and first great western and the snow hill lines would get better capacity, nice units, better journey times and the DaFT will have done something wright!!!!

Whats more important/profitable to electrify though?

The Snow Hill line of FGW main lines to BTM & Plymouth?

So 10 years of crap is acceptable just so the case for electrification can be strengthened?? I think not! the Snow hill lines will never be electrified in our lifetime anyway!

Surely it won't take 10 years to electrify the mml

Not if there's the political will, but that hasn't been there for the last 30 years. The fall in oil prices won't be helping the argument either, although long term decisions shouldn't be made on the basis of short term fluctuations.

One of the greatest problems that our railway has to deal with is Government ministers unwilling to make long-term decisions because of their short-term - "what will the voters see at the next election" - viewpoint.

As for time, remember the Government announced the go ahead for track doubling of the Cotswold line (Oxford to Worcester). It has only taken 30 years to get this agreed to, in-depth planning has been going on for around 4 years, FGW and Network Rail admit that there is a budget shortfall, and it is stated that the line "should" be open in 2010.  So I will make a prediction, electrification at Snow Hill should be complete by about ......... 2030 or am I being too optimistic. 

If government or the SNCF, (or whoever is running things by then), electrifies west of Exeter before 2030, I will eat my lurid FGW pink tie, live on any cheesy local news programme you care to choose.

We need some new units beacause pacers should have never have been built. but if a rolling programme of elctrification came underway the snow hill lines might get elctrifyed quicker.

I agree, I would lick the crud on the sleepers if that happens at all. Plus I dont want it to ever happen and it couldnt anyway...you know why!

hydrogen fueled........Honda has developed it for cars this could work for trains! No wires no route restriction Eco friendly

Indeed - and welcome to the Coffee Shop forum, Masteradam!  :)

Am I being dim ?

Haven't been to Devon for a few months but today I saw 6 pacer cars at Newton Abbott, one set attached to a 153.

Asked station staff about them going back 'up north' and they didn't know what I was talking about.

...said they'd been away but came back last summer ?????

sorry bringing up a old topic, reading through old posts as new to here and wanted to read about various things, sadly 117305 was scrapped, here is a small bit from google about 117305.  http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.hondawanderer.com/117305_Portway_1993_thumb.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hondawanderer.com/Class_117_2.htm&usg=__okzr35WG4O3NjFHrBbYPtYRLHFg=&h=125&w=180&sz=8&hl=en&start=2&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=b7PwZzorvrcaSM:&tbnh=70&tbnw=101&prev=/images%3Fq%3D117305%2Btrain%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1

I understand that 142063 has gone back to Northern,is that a prelude to the arrival of the delayed extra 150s

No.

Heaton has the contract to carry out the C4 examination on the unit. Comes back next weekend.

I'm currently scavenging through fotopic at the moment, and ive noticed this:

http://units.fotopic.net/p62893894.html

Bit of an odd sight, isnt it? But do pacers go down Plymouth way regualy?

I'd be intereted to know how well it copes with Hemerdon.

its not the first time, in-fact its what they were built for, well the branch lines anyway... unfortunately they were not well suited but i dont belive there is any problems on the main line

Iver also noticed this:

http://units.fotopic.net/p9519929.html

Was this the only WT refurb 158 that had those seats? And were the WT refurb 158s quite like the FGW refurb 158s?

They used to screeeeech up and down the St Ives branch.

Hmm, we're somewhat off-topic here, aren't we?

In answer to your question though, I never saw that unit in traffic, but I wouldn't describe it as a refurb - more a case of new seat covers on the old seats (already refurbished by Wales and West I believe, with Chapman seating, although those used to have an irregular "shades of blue" moquette whcih you can probably still see on some of their 158s that went north) and the odd bit of internal trim. So in fact virtually all of the Wessex 158s had those seats, just with different coverings.

There were a few units done with a more thorough overhaul that included entirely different seating (from what I recall it was a substantially grey seat with a maroon headrest) and carpets, no idea how many. But none of them looked very much like FGW's refurb, it's an entirely different colour scheme and for the most part the seating has been replaced with Richmond seats (although weirdly I think some cars retain their original BR seats, just with new upholstery, this can vary within a unit in the "hybrid"158s). As far as I can remember the actual layout of the vehicles, in terms of table/unidirectional seating remains much the same.

i think that picture has been doctored.
158749 was refurbed by Wessex at pullmans but it never had them seats fitted,the ex virgin class 158's  747,748,749 and 751 that wessex got were refurbed with the pinky coloured covers and slightly different shaped seats they were very unique.
all the other ex wales and west had the chapman seating but blue/grey coloured cloth

142's go up Hemerdon considerably better than a class 153. Better power to weight ratio.

Funnily enough I believe I might be in that picture somewhere!
 ;) ;D

That looks to me like the standard late 90's Wales & West refurbished 158 interior, taken with a camera with a serious white balance issue. It certainly isn't 158749 though as 158747-9/51 were refurbished at Barton Hill using different seating to the Chapman type depicted there.

i hate it when people add text and watermarks to photos it distracts you from the image

It certainly isn't 158749
[/quote]

It is. look through the window of 158749 in this pic:
http://units.fotopic.net/p9519928.html

Although there is no booked 14x diagrams to Plymouth it is not unusual to see a 143 or 142 make it to Plymouth when something has failed, they have on occasions made it to Penzance aswell.

Off Route, But Pacers used to go down to Westbury, but I haven't seen one there in ages...!

You might do when the 143 fleet returns to SPM

There was a FGW 142 westbury bound once

Probably en route to Reading as some work has been carried out on the 142's there in the past.

It was on a actual passenger service. I saw a picture on Trowbridge Jim's Photo Gallery of it stopping at Bradford-On-Avon with passengers getting on and off. it said westbury on the Dest board.

142068 for reference

it came off spm ready to go ecs to exe depot but due to failures they utilised it on a btm-wsb service with exe crew and then ecs to exe depot via castle cary

In the Northern area there are no real real branch lines remaining which have a regular passenger service and there haven't been since before the Pacers were built.  Most of the services that Pacers are used on in the North of England use either the WCML or ECML for part of their journey.

Pacers actually bounce less while running at 75mph on a mainline than stop-start on a line where the quality of the track could be better.

Pacers do have problems on certain viaducts e.g. Leftwich viaduct in Cheshire and they are banned from lines with steep gradients e.g. Manchester-Buxton, but as pointed out a 153 would not be better suited to a steep gradient over a 142.

The 142s were due to go to Northern as soon as the 150s were released by London Overground to be in place for the Dec 2010 timetable change, letting East Coast take on the 180s.  However, as East Coast no longer require the 180s FGW are keeping hold of  the 142s until the LM 150s arrive.

However, the 142's are visiting the frozen north 1 by 1 for re-painting into Northern livery minus the branding, 142009 has returned like this recently.

as vacman says they are going for repaint at newton heath.

Removal of the,blinds aswell it seems

142s hsve blinds?

I'm assumng not the blinds I'm thinking of

Hmm, he didn't exactly make himself clear but I assume d_m is referring to destination blinds.

See here (http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s81/chris64ex4/Rail%20odds-sods/142030ExeterWestYard10-06-2008.jpg) for an example of a destination blind on a 142.  ::)

Yes, sorry didn't make it clear. Not amazingly easy typing on a mobile!

Which has been used on more than one occasion when the 0740 PGN-PAD has been 142 vice HST to EXD/BRI  ;D

142068 repainted in power car blue seen arriving back at Exeter depot from Newton Heath this afternoon.

Is it really power car blue? I think I read in RAIL that they were being outshopped in Northern's base colour in preparation for them returning up North in due course. It's a deep purple colour, probably not unlike power car blue at a glance.

Picture taken at Newcastle, February 6th 2011:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiseman2007/5439110915/

Comments confirm it's been oop norf for overhaul.

Running to Plymouth today:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gordonrichens/5460828903/

yeh i saw this friday, the door color was the give away

It is Northern Rails base colour, 009 has also had the treatment, I thought we seemed short of units lately!

At a meeting of user groups and Devon County Council last night it was announced by FGW that the last day of operation for 142's out of Exeter would be Sunday 27th November. Can I hear the sound of cheering?

Maybe, in some parts.   But what a pity that Exeter Depot, who have got so much praise for the TLC they have given these units, can't continue to provide that TLC for them to operate desparately needed services such as an 04:30 to Yeovil Junction, Pen Mill, Westbury and Swindon (arr 07:02) and an 05:45 (arr 08:18) ... with return services off Swindon at 18:19 and 22:07.  And I just happen to have a service that they could run the rest of the day in Wiltshire, with a benefit / cost ratio of 2.74:1, case fully made; indeed the timings I've given provide stock runs in and out of that, and an extra Yeovil / Castle Cary / Bruton / Frome direct to Swindon commuter train.

There is, though, one cheer if not three - at least they're not going for scrap as some of the old LT electrics are.

Nice idea.

There was the talk of the farewell tour, with a run into Paddington being suggested by some staff  who want to do it for a laugh and to see the looks on some faces there.

London Midland are doing a farewell tour for their class 150's including some lines they dont normally run passenger trains over. I can't find the link for this but there is a london midland farewell class 150 page on facebook for the members on here who have facebook.

You need to put a 143 on the back and put up signs in the window saying 'First Class' on the 143 with the 142 forming the 'Standard Class.'

Go on, you know it makes sense. After all the 142's do have 'London Paddington' on the blind, at least the ones with Blinds in do....

Plus it would need to be standing room only from Reading.

Like the idea. Alternatively, they could do a farewell tour along the Folkestone harbour branch - and just keep going! They wouldn't make it back up the incline anyway  :P

If there is no 142 Farewell Tour, LM have arranged a Farewell 150 Tour on 12th November

Last I heard there was going to be a 142 farewell tour on 27-11-2011, not sure if thats still occurring though.

142029 and 142064 off back to 'Pie&PeaRail' tomorrow (21-10-2011) as I understand it. 5Z42 EX-NH.

Both 142029/064 are at Exeter Depot as of 20:00 tonight.

Good riddance to these awful, awful 'trains'.

They look cr*p, the seats are little better than park benches, they are draughty, noisy and uncomfortable.

Now can we do away with the 3+2 seating on the replacement units, please? Or, FGW can keep it in place if they can prove that 3 average size human adults are able to sit on a '3' without an indecent act ( :-\) being unwittingly committed...

Yes I have heard that there will be a farewell tour on the 27th october, no one has confirmed it though.

If I do get any confirmed information, timings etc I will post them here.

Hopefully  we will find out  more informationm asap, especially so i can book some coach tickets up to London if a pacer is going to Paddington. (I just want to see the looks on  the faces  of passengers and staff when 1 rolls into paddigton station.)

From what I have heard - yes, there will definitely be the farewell tour on 27 November but no, it's not going to Paddington.  From what I've heard, it'll be a tour of Devon.

I've heard a 142 went to swindon this morning in place of the 0510 HST ex Plymouth, 142 ran Exeter to Swindon, can anyone confirm or deny this?

Confirmed, I dont know what unit number it was. I think a majority of London passengers  at exeter  etc were encouraged to travel  on the hst following behind which went via the Berk & Hants route.

Correct. 142001 covered 1A08 from Exeter as far as Swindon.

There is going to be a farewell tour for the class 142's on 27th november (Not october, sorry got the months mixed up).

So all all the information i have is that the tour will be taking in : Heathfield, Okehampton and Alphington Road Sidings.

There may be more but sadly no trip into Paddington it seems, which will dissapoint myself and a few others.

Why all the fuss about Paddington.  They never worked there.   The Devon Metro which was their patch and perhaps Heathfield and Okehampton which have been suggested would be more appropriate

It seems a shame to have 'London Paddington' on the blinds and not use it just the once...
 ;D

Attached 150219 at Bristol TM

Does anybody know how it, presumably, return to Exeter and how it was crewed.    Obviously EX Driver but any further details how.

two of these awful excuses for trains should now be back up north where they belong, there was an ecs move from EXd earlier, did it actually run?

Yes, 5z42 12+25 Exeter to Newton Heath ran, 142029 and 142064

Looks like whoever allocated the reporting number was getting into the spirit of things with 5Z42...

Exeter driver, plus Exeter West conductor route conducted by rostered HSS train manager EXD - SWI. Unit ran back to Exeter ECS I believe so the West conductor either travelled back passenger on it or caught a service train home.

It did. DB-S doing the honours as I understand it.

Rumoured (and subsequently confirmed by FGW staffer) on ukr....

Jon Porter has subsequently posted on that thread....


So may not be adevertising it....

Damn it I really wanna be on this!!!! Seeing it at meldon may be the best I can hope for :-(

As I understand it there are to be 90 tickets made available for sale to the general public. Not actually sure about how you go about getting tickets or whether there are any left.

Three x 142's, one for FGW senior management, one for staff who have been involved with the class and the other for the fare paying passengers.

And no I'm not going to be on it in any capacity. ;)

Too much like a busman's holiday?  :P ;) ;D

Shouldn't the event be renamed the "Class 142 Farewell Party"? :D

Somebody has to keep trains running elsewhere while the 142's wobble towards Heathfield / Meldon at maximum governed revs...
 ;)

I did suggest that the tour be called 'The Rickshaw Requiem' however I am advised that no headboard will be carried...

But couldn't you tag along as a travelling fitter?  3x fully loaded donkeys equals 3x the potential for problems.

TSM - Have spanner, will travel...... 

..... oh, hang on. You're a SprinterMeister not PacerMeister.  ;D ;D ;D

Technically I'm more 'The MTU16V4000R41-Meister' or The 12GM645E3C-Meister' these days. ;) ;D

I'm quite sure they can manage without me being anywhere near the 'Rickshaw Requiem'....

I'm Gunna book the day off and keep my fingers crossed... Is this sad?

Taking a day off isn't sad.

Using it to go bashing 142s? No comment.  :P ;) ;D

This taken from UK railforums:

Some timings now available:-

Sunday 27th November.

2Z61 0930 Exeter St David's to Exeter St David's (arr 1000) via Alphington (0950 - 0955).

2Z62 1025 Exeter St David's to Newton Abbot (arr 1045).

2Z64 1220 Newton Abbot to Exeter St David's (arr 1240).

2Z65 1315 Exeter St David's to Exeter St David's (arr 1723) via Meldon Quarry (1420 - 1425) and Barnstaple (1617 - 1623).

2Z66 1730 Exeter St David's to Plymouth (arr 1830) Non stop.

2Z67 1847 Plymouth to Exeter St David's (arr 1950) Non stop.


No 2Z63 shown (yet) but it might be that a run along Heathfield branch is added nearer the time as there is a long layover at Newton Abbot between
2Z62 & 2Z64.


Pity I cant go, I would love the non stop run

What about 'The Devon Donkey Derby'?  ;D ;D ;D

Or 'Off the Pace'?

'The Devon Donkey' was suggested, however officialdom decrees that no commemorative headboard will be carried...

I guess a headboard will not be carried as that might indicate that FGW is sorry to see them go. I would suggest 'Class 142 good riddance tour'. I do have a soft spot for them as they are basic trains doing a basic job + you can throw them about a bit more than a 15x ( they do give as good as they get though ) . It is not trying to be anything special, nothing fancy. Just getting on with it.

I don't really mind them, still got them on the card. Managed a whole 400 yards driving on / from one last Sunday. Reasonably reliable cheap transport for the masses...
 ;)

Does that now make me MTU16V4000R41-Guard ? :P

Sort of, some of the time.  ;D My 'E3C' should read 'F3B' as I run 50 rpm faster.....

I wont be sorry to see the back of them, though I think Exeter depot did a sterling job in maintaining them, especially getting 001 running.

On the subject of Paddington I'm sure a class 143 made it into the Capital once as a passenger train from my Controller days. Cant remember the circumstances but will ask around.

Are as follows;
2z61 0930 Exeter St Davids
0940 Exeter St Thomas
0950 / 0955 Alphington Road
0957 Exeter St Thomas
1000 Exeter St Davids

2z62 1025 Exeter St Davids
1035 Dawlish Warren
1036 Dawlish
1039 Teignmouth
1045 Newton Abbot

2z63 1055 Newton Abbot
1125 / 1135 Heathfield
1210 Newton Abbot

2z64 1220 Newton Abbot
1225 Teignmouth
1228 Dawlish
1229 Dawlish Warren
1240 Exeter St Davids

2z65 1315 Exeter St Davids
1326 / 1328 Crediton
1404 / 1405 Okehampton
1420 / 1425 Meldon Quarry
1440 / 1441 Okehampton
1508 / 1525 Crediton
1550 / 1553 Eggesford
1617 / 1623 Barnstaple
1645 / 1648 Eggesford
1706 / 1708 Crediton
1723 Exeter St Davids

2z66 1730 Exeter St Davids
1741 Dawlish
1744 Teignmouth
1749 Newton Abbot
1801 Totnes
1816 Ivybridge
1830 Plymouth

2z67 1847 Plymouth
1902 Ivybridge
1916 Totnes
1923 Newton Abbot
1928 Teignmouth
1931 Dawlish
1950 Exeter St Davids

To be formed of 3 x 142's 1 of which will be open to the Public Fares are ^15
for either am or pm trips or ^25 all day

Back in Wales and West and Wales and Borders about 1998 - 2000 FGW withdrew 21 25 HST Cardiff to Paddington so Wales and West stepped in to fill the gap using a 158 and returning on a 0045 Paddington to Cardiff.  However, one night no 158 was available and a 143 worked to Paddington and back.    On occasions, a 150/2 worked.
The 143 kept time !!!



Edit note: Quote marks fixed. Chris.  :)

Please see my post which did not seem to process normally.   It seems to be included in this rather than sepately.

any more news on booking this yet?

I was going to ask the same question as one of the regular Barnstaple line passengers is asking about this over at WNXX.

90 seats only for Joe Public sounds a bit limp to be honest...

Times ticking isn't it ... Is it deffo 3 units? I know only one of them will be for donkey lovers

but FGW staff get it free apparently! Think Exeter staff deserve a freebie after putting up working the things.  ;)

But not me. Something else far has cropped up at the moment...

Any gen on how Joe Public books tickets would be appreciated though.

Can I use my priv :-) haha

No.  ;D

Sorry I couldn't post this sooner, as of 1945 last night Exeter st davids only had a few tickets for the afternoon and none for the morning.. I came away empty handed I knew they would go fast!

Apparently they only arrived / went on sale as of 14:00 the same day.....

I gather there are still some tickets available, not many sold in Plymouth apparently....

That's surprising! That's where I had to get mine from... One thing I'm confused about, there were 90 tickets for sale exd had 30 and Plymouth had 30 where are the other 30?

Anyway who else is going

I'm working now, 07:00 - 15:00 which effectively rules it out.

Im now working late in gillingham on the Saturday and won't get home until 2100.... Sunday's going to be a long day lol.


Just Incase anyone is getting to Exeter via the west of England line please note replacement bus service between honiton and Exeter that day

A 5Z42 arranged for 28/11 and 30/11 from Exeter to Newton Heath to move all the 142s back to Northern Rail.

Tour appears to have gone according to plan. I understand 142063 developed a wheelflat on the Okehampton Jaunt and 142068 decided to loose coolant which meant 142009 came out to run with 142001 on the jaunt to Plymouth and back. The down run to Plymouth was completed in a creditable 57 minutes start to stop. All back in Exeter at 19:50 bang on time.

And here endeth the second session of class 142 operation in Devon. ;D

would have been faster we got held by signals.... hummmmm

ahh well still very good time

Any timings available?

Here's today's.  I assume Wednesday will be the same?

ExetrFP      12:29         
Exete35   12:31   12:35         
ExetrSD      12:36         
CwlyBdg      12:38         
TiviLp       12:50         
TiviPw       12:51         
Tivitnl      12:54         
NtnFtzn      13:02         
Taunton      13:03         
Cogload      13:08         
Brdgwtr      13:14         
UphillJ      13:29         
WorleJ       13:36         
ParsnSt      13:50         
BrstlWJ      13:53         
BrstlTM   13:54   14:11         
BrstlEJ      14:11         
DrDaysJ      14:12         
Stplnar      14:16         
Filtnew      14:21         
BrstPwy      14:25         
WstlghJ      14:29         
Yate       14:32         
Chfield      14:37         
StndshJ      14:48         
GlostYJ      14:53         
Glos339   14:55   15:11         
BnwdJn       15:13         
Chltnhm      15:21         
Ashchrc      15:29         
AbtswdJ      15:40         
StkWksJ      15:55         
Brmsugl   15:58   16:05         
Brmsgrv      16:08         
BGrn        16:15         
Lonb        16:18         
KNorton      16:23         
LifodEJ      16:27         
BrdslyJ      16:31         
StadJn       16:32         
LndrStJ   16:34   16:36         
WshwdH1      16:39         
WtrOrtn      16:44         
KngsbyJ      16:46         
TmwthHL      16:51         
WichnrJ      16:59         
BurtnLJ      17:04         
BurtnoT      17:04         
ClMlJn       17:07         
NSJDrby      17:10         
StsnJn       17:11         
Drby         17:19         
Breadsl   17:26   17:32         
AmbergJ      17:41         
ClayXNJ      17:50         
Chfdsj       17:53         
Chfd         17:55         
TaptonJ      17:56         
DoreWJ       18:06         
TotlyTE      18:06         
Grndlfd      18:11         
Bamford      18:14         
ErleSdg      18:17         
Edale       18:21         
ChnlyEJ      18:26         
ChnlyNJ      18:27         
NwMiLSj      18:31         
NwMilsC      18:37         
MarplWJ      18:49         
Romiley      18:52         
Woodley      18:54         
HydeJ        19:02         
GidB         19:12         
Ashbrys      19:16         
PhilPk2      19:24         
PhilPk1      19:25         
BrewryS      19:29         
ThrpsBJ      19:29         
NwtnhDD       19:30

Thanks very much for posting those times, IndustryInsider.  ;)

I deliberately planned my shopping trip this afternoon around 13:40, just so I could also take in the photo opportunity of several 142s being dragged through Nailsea & Backwell - but I reckon they went through a bit earlier, so I missed them.

Are the same timings true of Wednesday? If so, I'll make a point of getting down to NLS a bit earlier!  :-[

I missed them too, believe they left Exeter around 12:10.

Does anyone know what the final 142 working was on the Exmouth branch? Saturday 26th would have been the last possible day.

Any information would be much appreciated.

I have some clues to help but nothing concrete. 142009/30/63 were out on the Exmouth line on Saturday. The following information is based on units staying in their diagrams for the rest of the day:

142030 (with a 143) was due to run the 19:21 Paignton to Exmouth (arr 21:01) and then the 21:04 Exmouth to Exeter St Davids (arr 21:34).

142063 (with a 153) was due to run the 21:13 Paignton to Exeter St Davids (arr 22:05).

142009 (on its own) was due to run the 21:53 Paignton to Exeter St Davids (arr 22:45).

I suppose any of these units could have then formed later trips to Exmouth but I'm afraid I don't have any more information.

Yes, timings are exactly the same today, though being a Class 5 they might not be too accurate again!

Thanks again, IndustryInsider!  ;D

This time (at 13:35) I did see a couple of 142s trundling through Nailsea & Backwell Station - but no photos, unfortunately.  :-[

On Monday %th of December, while waiting for the 14.30 Exeter C to Crewkerne service, a 142 trundled in on the 14.22 Exmouth service!

I doubt it! was probably a 143!

I was wondering if I could attract some comments on issues from the commencement of the December Timetable on the Devon Metro in the aftermath of the 150 Stock Cascade and subsequent rediagramming and the departure of the 142s.    Does there appear to be any improvements in performance, overcrowding issues, passenger satisfaction.   I presume that most services are worked by 143s, having gained the Bristol area ones,  with more 150s and an additional 153 thrown in.

cant fairly comment on it until normality returns next week really when schools go back etc.

Thought i would add some images taken from the tour ... was anyone else on it?

(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6104/6414793367_2f3551c076_m.jpg)
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/relex109/6414793367/in/photostream)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7031/6414845365_3faeabd4d7_m.jpg)
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/relex109/6414845365/in/photostream)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7029/6414812139_b42cbf1b83_m.jpg)
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/relex109/6414812139/in/photostream)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7009/6414865023_0b89c58127_m.jpg)
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/relex109/6414865023/in/photostream)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7019/6414801423_5fe4cbdd11_m.jpg)
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/relex109/6414801423/in/photostream)

More by myself and others from the day on my site http://www.relex109.com/fgw142.php

Looks like it was an interesting day, what with the trip to Heathfield.

Some more pictures will be found on the ALRUG website:
http://www.avocetline.org.uk/gallery/farewell-to-the-142s/

These include one after the light's failure on 142068 on the way back from Barnstaple. Perhaps it hadn't liked the bottled water that it was fed at Meldon!!

Also included is a shot of 142029 in its new guise at York on bonfire day.

TJ

Has anybody got any comments on life after the 142s, i.e. performance, overcrowding issues perhaps, on the Devon Metro please.