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Journey by Journey => Chiltern Railways services => Topic started by: IndustryInsider on June 13, 2010, 12:11:01



Title: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 13, 2010, 12:11:01
Here's a little tale of train regulating I've just watched unfold on my computer that just shows how one small decision can affect many passengers in a bad way.

Background:  Chiltern are once again running one of their two trains per hour from Birmingham to/from Oxford to connect into the hourly fast FGW service to London.  There's roughly a 10-15 minute connection time at Oxford and it's a better solution than replacement buses from High Wycombe to Beaconsfield which passengers would otherwise have to do.

Scenario:  The 10:10 from Birmingham Snow Hill is running on time as far as Fenny Compton, but for some reason then gets put behind FGW's 11:10 Banbury to Oxford stopping service.  It then leaves Banbury at 11:13 (meaning it's right up the stoppers backside all the way to Oxford) and loses more time.  The connecting train to London Paddington is due to leave at 11:38 - I'm guessing they'd be quite a lot of people (100+) wanting to connect based on a similar train I saw arrive last week.  The stopper (with no more than a handful of passengers on board at the most) arrives at Oxford 5 minutes early at 11:37.  The Chiltern service running right behind it arrives at 11:42.

Decision time:  So, do you hold the 11:38 for about 7 minutes with Chiltern agreeing to accept the delay minutes - and possibly claim them back off of Network Rail for their regulating decision at Banbury?

Or do you let the 11:38 leave on time and leave the poor passengers waiting for either the 12:05 to Didcot with a change for London, or the 12:15 Bournemouth with a change at Reading, or the next fast direct service an hour later at 12:40?

No prizes for guessing what happened and I'm sure there's plenty of disgruntled passengers waiting at Oxford now!  Firstly what a dreadful piece of train regulating!  The stopper to Oxford should have been held in Banbury sidings and departed a few minutes late - very few people would have been affected by that.  The Chiltern service would easily have made the connection at Oxford.  Secondly, given that mistakes sometimes happen, surely a fairly small delay to the 11:38ex Oxford would have been justified given the number of people that would have wanted to connect?  It does have 1hr 13mins to get to London, so may well have made up most of that time anyway.

I really think the railway industry's 'no delays at any cost' approach leads to it shooting itself in the foot sometimes!


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: super tm on June 13, 2010, 17:37:34
Could there not have been a problem at Banbury which meant the stopper was occupying the same platform that the chiltern train was due to arrive ?

Does not excuse the failure to hold the train at Oxford though.


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: Steve Bray on June 14, 2010, 12:31:55
This highlight's why the railways here can be so demoralising; maybe there was a breakdown in communication, but overall it will have messed up a lot of passengers travelling plans, without really affecting the operations of the rail services.

There are also inconsistencies; on Friday 4th June, XC started their 1141 Reading to Newcastle service at Oxford. The stock arrived into Oxford at around midday, well ahead of its 1208 departure, and had a green light. The driver was ready to go; the platform staff had given the right away. Driver got out, walked to see the guard, but nothing happened; then the unit moved to the top end of the platform, to allow the arrival of the 1212 stopping service from Paddington. No more than 2 or 3 passengers could have alighted, and casually walked up the platform to board the XC service which then left at about 1215. So I guess the guard knew that some passengers were arriving off this service, but no-one else did. Yet I can imagine that the delay to that train would have had a greater knock on to other services, than the 'missed' connection that Industry Insider refers to.


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 14, 2010, 14:09:56
Another incident the very same day involved the 15:50 Paddington to Great Malvern which I was a passenger on.  A 6-Car Turbo was provided which was plenty of capacity in this case.  However, no mention on the CIS at Paddington or Reading that you'd need to be in the front 3 for beyond Oxford.  No announcements to that effect from the driver.  The only announcement was from the Train Manager as we approached Oxford - he joined at Reading and checked tickets in the quieter front 3-carriages rather than the rear bit wrongly full of Cotswold Line punters.  Cue the all too predictable scenes of mild panic at Oxford as cases and kids were dragged by anxious passengers jumping off the rear three on to the front three and a couple of minutes delay to the train as a result.

Also, when we were at Didcot Parkway a slightly delayed HST arrived into platform two from the west.  You can bet your bottom dollar that they'd have been a few people wanting to connect for Oxford as there always is.  It's doors opened and just as the first passengers touched the platform our driver decided to close the doors of our train and therefore consigned them to a wait of around 40 minutes until the next train.

Again, in my opinion, not very impressive at all.


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: John R on June 14, 2010, 14:40:47
Also, when we were at Didcot Parkway a slightly delayed HST arrived into platform two from the west.  You can bet your bottom dollar that they'd have been a few people wanting to connect for Oxford as there always is.  It's doors opened and just as the first passengers touched the platform our driver decided to close the doors of our train and therefore consigned them to a wait of around 40 minutes until the next train.

Again, in my opinion, not very impressive at all.

I've seen that at Swindon when a train from Bristol arrives 14 mins late. On more than one occasion the doors of the HST heading to Cheltenham have been locked (30 secs before time)just as the first passengers hit the platform despite it being a booked connection and a cross platform change.

The impression on customers is appalling.


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: willc on June 14, 2010, 22:40:33
There are some pictures of Sunday's Chiltern diversions at Oxford taken by Martin Loader at his Hondawanderer website http://www.hondawanderer.com/Recent_Additions.htm


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 15, 2010, 07:07:36
There are some pictures of Sunday's Chiltern diversions at Oxford taken by Martin Loader at his Hondawanderer website http://www.hondawanderer.com/Recent_Additions.htm

The fifth picture demonstrates just how much spare stock is kicking around on a Sunday, particularly until mid-afternoon, and why I find it so frustrating when a 3-car Turbo rolls in to form a London express and a platform full of passengers is left fighting to get on!


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: grahame on June 15, 2010, 08:28:54
The fifth picture demonstrates just how much spare stock is kicking around on a Sunday, particularly until mid-afternoon, and why I find it so frustrating when a 3-car Turbo rolls in to form a London express and a platform full of passengers is left fighting to get on!

Somewhat out of the Thames Valley, but I shared that frustration as I crowded onto a 3 car 158 at Salisbury the other Saturday afternoon, while a further five very similar coaches were sitting asleep in the siding on the City side of the station, and there much have been a dozen more in the depot yard.

Payment wise - do the TOCs pay network rails per train / type of per carriage for access charges?   Is it the same price for any train made up of 16x units (or 15x units), or is there a higher charge made for a 6 car train than a 3 car one?


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: paul7575 on June 15, 2010, 08:49:52
Payment wise - do the TOCs pay network rails per train / type of per carriage for access charges?   Is it the same price for any train made up of 16x units (or 15x units), or is there a higher charge made for a 6 car train than a 3 car one?

Track access costs vary with length of train.

Paul


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: super tm on June 15, 2010, 11:01:02

Payment wise - do the TOCs pay network rails per train / type of per carriage for access charges?   Is it the same price for any train made up of 16x units (or 15x units), or is there a higher charge made for a 6 car train than a 3 car one?

Yes and dont forget the saving in fuel.


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: grahame on June 15, 2010, 11:17:27
Track access costs vary with length of train.

Yes and dont forget the saving in fuel.

Sure, yes, thanks ... and there's the wear and tear on the second unit, bringing the next services that much closer ... and the the revenue collection issues where the result is a train without a conductor in one of the units ...

I was looking to get a handle / flavour of what extra costs are involved of upping a three car set to a six car set if you have an anticipated traffic flow of - say - 250 to 300 passengers on a service at its busiest point.


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: devon_metro on June 15, 2010, 12:30:06
Worth noting that an overcrowded 3 car set is likely to pick up more delay minutes than a sensibly loaded 6 car. Not sure on the cost of delay minutes, however I know they don't come cheap!


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: eightf48544 on June 15, 2010, 16:09:46

It's what happens when you let the bean counters out of their cage to try and run the railway.


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 10, 2010, 09:44:25
Good to see that with Sunday's Cotswold Line service being curtailed at Moreton-In-Marsh and the majority of the HST's being replaced by Turbo's as a result, that all of those Turbo's in the 'Up' direction have been strengthened to 6-cars.  Those seats will all be needed given that Chiltern are once again diverting into Oxford on an hourly basis.

It does beg the question of why replace so many of the HST's though?  I think two of them are still going to be HST's.  I know that Turbo's are much more flexible and quicker to turn round at Moreton-In-Marsh, but it does seem that FGW will use any excuse to pull a HST from the service and replace it with a much cheaper Turbo!


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: willc on July 10, 2010, 10:44:00
And if there are yet more Turbo workings, does rather beg the question of why they aren't coupling on the Chiltern workings at Oxford and using a pilot driver when the 168 is leading, saving a great deal of aggro for the poor passengers.

Maybe Chiltern are worried their trains will re-emerge from the dark side with some of that 3+2 seating so suitable for a three-hour-plus journey to Hereford and back on a normal FGW Sunday?

HST turnrounds are not really a big issue. I photographed the procedure last summer and it took eight minutes platform to platform, a large chunk of which was the driver walking back up the train to change cabs, and there's a lot of time in hand between most arrival and departure times at Moreton anyway.


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 12, 2010, 13:36:50
Having praised the efforts to lengthen the trains a few days ago, I experienced two of them on Sunday and sadly it wasn't pleasant.  Firstly I boarded yesterday's 13:42 Paddington to Moreton at Didcot returning from a weekend in Cardiff.  It was a 5-car Turbo but was so full I could hardly get on! It was running about 15 minutes late (as were a number of other trains) and in fairness the previous service may have been cancelled (see below).  Also, Chiltern held their 14:55 connection at Oxford for 15 minutes which was greatly appreciated I'm sure!  The queue to use the lift and staircase on platform 2 at Oxford took literally minutes to disperse!

Secondly, whilst I was at Oxford the 15:50 to Paddington rolled into the platform.  I believe it was booked to be a HST and start at Moreton (probably formed off the 12:42 Paddington to Moreton, which I suspect was cancelled), but it was clearly an empty 3-car set from the sidings.  Despite the fact that nobody from the Cotswold Line was on it, and the connecting Chiltern train from Birmingham was cancelled so there were no passengers off of that, it still left 5 minutes late due to the sheer numbers boarding with absolutely no room left on board at all!  A few people decided to sit and wait it out for the 16:05 or 16:15 trains.

Whilst both trains were not exactly running quite as planned, it does demonstrate how on-the-edge things are on a Sunday, and if something goes wrong it quickly descends into farce.


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: Timmer on July 12, 2010, 19:36:26
Whilst both trains were not exactly running quite as planned, it does demonstrate how on-the-edge things are on a Sunday, and if something goes wrong it quickly descends into farce.
It does as we have seen on the Cardiff-Portsmouth line on a Sunday when services are less frequesnt and sometimes end up short formed whilst empty rolling stock sits in the sidings at Westbury and Salisbury.


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: readytostart on July 13, 2010, 14:38:27
The weekend was a nightmare with my XC services busy as they are anyway with Bournemouth and Southampton traffic, it definitely got cosy once Chiltern passengers and those travelling between Oxford and Worcester were added to the mix.


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: inspector_blakey on July 14, 2010, 05:13:27
There does seem to be a prevailing mindset* that even if there is a reduced service running, it will somehow magically absorb all the punters without causing discomfort or inconvenience to anyone, honest...! Case in point, last time I was back home (mid-May) I travelled in an HST from DID to BPW (replacement bus from Swindon). Seemed like services out of London heading to south Wales and Bristol were down to about one an hour, so predictably the train service was full and standing.

Things only got worse from Swindon, where there were not enough buses provided... I was "fortunate" to get on one of these vehicles only to discover that is was some horrendous conveyance designed to torment even Munchkins by forcing them to sit with their knees rounds their necks. I'm 6' 1" so would consider myself on the taller end of average but nothing freakish. This bus however properly took the p*ss - it was as much as I could do to sit sideways, so small was the seat pitch. Of course, a rather shorted gentleman but with a somewhat more ample frame ended up occupying the aisle seat, leaving me with the most uncomfortable "rail" journey I can remember in some time. It was a white-painted anonymous bus, and I didn't get make a note of the "legal" lettering to the right of the door, so sadly I can't name and shame the operator of that wretched vehicle.

*possibly in the minds of those whose job it would be to spend more money by providing some sort of a back-up service of they were not able to convince themselves that a service reduced to half its normal frequency may be getting a little cosy.


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: IndustryInsider on July 14, 2010, 12:22:42
I'm sure you could have upgraded to 1st Class on the bus if you'd wanted more leg room, Blakey.  ;)


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: JayMac on July 14, 2010, 13:01:11
I fear the only extra legroom available to blakey would've been in the seat at the front right. Not sure blakey has a PCV licence.......


Title: Re: How to make a complete mess of train regulation...
Post by: inspector_blakey on July 14, 2010, 16:37:20
True enough. But on reflection I could have provided a splendid commentary on the scenic highlights of Swindon, and M4 and north Bristol from the tour guide's jump seat...



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