Great Western Coffee Shop

Journey by Journey => Heart of Wessex => Topic started by: JayMac on July 18, 2010, 02:10:41



Title: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on July 18, 2010, 02:10:41
From the Dorset Echo (http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/8272388.Calls_to_tear_up_Weymouth_s_tramway_lines/):

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NEW calls were made today to tear up Weymouth^s historic harbourside railway line.

Motorcyclist Becky Leeming blames the rails, known as the tramway, for an accident in which she was thrown from her bike in Commercial Road. She believes the redundant line should be scrapped as it poses a danger to road users.

The line was laid to serve Weymouth Quay but regular services stopped in the 1980s.

Since then it has been used occasionally by special trains carrying enthusiasts. The last one was several years ago.

Some believe the line has a future and should be included in integrated transport plans while others appreciate it for its heritage value ^ reflected in a 2001 Dorset Echo reader poll when people said they would like the tracks to stay.

However, it remains the bane of cyclists and bikers.

The tramway is part of the national rail network until it is closed, a lengthy operation requiring a public inquiry and government intervention. Weymouth and Portland Borough Council entered into negotiations with Network Rail to buy the lines so it could close them but the deal never went through.

Becky, 23, who lives in the Park District, was on her way to work at Debenhams where she is employed as a supervisor when the accident happened as she turned into the harbourside car park.

She said: ^I was careful going over the tracks because it had been raining and I^ve seen enough people come off before. As my wheels went over they locked into the rails. It was really scary. There wasn^t anything I could^ve done to prevent it. My bike started wobbling and I had no control so I let go and was thrown over the handlebars into the road.^

Becky escaped with bruises but an ambulance crew was called as a precaution. Motorists and passers-by stopped to offer assistance.

Becky said: ^Although I was not seriously hurt it could have been a lot worse, especially if there was more traffic about. The accident has affected my confidence and I haven^t ridden since. Something has to be be done about the lines. They^re not being used so let^s get rid of them. How many more accidents does it take before something is done?^

Dorset County Council which has responsibility for highways said the line is the responsibility of Network Rail.

A Network Rail spokesman said: ^A number of options have been discussed with various parties about the future of the line. None of these options are being progressed further at this stage and therefore the line will remain as it is for the foreseeable future. Any decision to take forward any of the options would likely be subject to consultation.^


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on July 18, 2010, 04:18:07
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However, it remains the bane of cyclists and bikers.

While I genuinely have every sympathy with Becky Leeming, I do think that her sentiments about 'getting rid of' those currently disused, but historic, tramlines (just for the sake of it) could be applied, rather more relevantly, to the present and rather more dangerous potholes and raised drain covers that we cyclists also have to deal with.

 ::)


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: eightf48544 on July 18, 2010, 10:30:03
I tend to agree with Chris's sentinments.

It's intersting that the same thing used to said about tramlines in major towns.

I recall my mother saying she used to cycle into Southampton every day before the war and she was always very careful about crossing tramlines and they could be tricky in the wet.

But there is one thing to said about tramlines rather than potholes and drain covers they are always in the same place and don't appear suddenly in front of you.


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: Timmer on October 17, 2011, 17:30:13
Update on this from the Dorset Echo
http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/9306448._Danger__Weymouth_quayside_tracks_to_be_filled/?ref=mr



Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: JayMac on October 17, 2011, 18:09:38
I've come a cropper twice while riding my bicycle along Bristol's harbourside where there are similar embedded tracks.

I get off and wheel my bike across at certain points now.


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7575 on October 17, 2011, 18:22:25
One of the points raised elsewhere is that although it is known as a tramway, they are actually normal rails and parallel checkrails, so the gap is much deeper than you get with a normal street tram rail cross section.

It will never be used again now so I reckon they should just get on and dig it up...

Paul


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on October 17, 2011, 20:41:07
The Highway Code places a clear responsibility on the road users who's reading the code (which will be cyclists, motorcyclists, car, van, lorry and bus drivers - presumably in addition to tram drivers) and having been given that responsibility, it's a bit rich to claim a danger.  Heck - lorries are a danger to cyclists too, but there's no proposal to ban them; we ask the cyclists to take care.

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146

Adapt your driving to the appropriate type and condition of road you are on. In particular ... take the road and traffic conditions into account. Be prepared for unexpected or difficult situations, for example, the road ...

306

All road users, but particularly cyclists and motorcyclists, should take extra care when driving or riding close to or crossing the tracks, especially if the rails are wet. You should take particular care when crossing the rails at shallow angles, on bends and at junctions. It is safest to cross the tracks directly at right angles. Other road users should be aware that cyclists and motorcyclists may need more space to cross the tracks safely.


Having said which ... as it stands, the Weymouth tramway is the worst of both worlds ... it's not used, but at the same time it probably adds an element of risk.  What a further tourist draw it would be if a shuttle passenger service were to run from the back of Comet down to the Quay. I was thinking "steam train" but one could also consider tram, with a terminal loop in front of the station. My heart says "keep it in that way" but my head says that if that can't be the case, then there is a case for taking it out.


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on October 18, 2011, 00:15:51
Does it cost any money to maintain? if not or if the cost is minimal how much would it cost to remove?



Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: StuartStIves on October 31, 2011, 21:48:22
How do the cyclists in Fleetwood, Wolverhampton, Sheffield, Manchester, Croydon (and soon to be joined by Edinburgh) - all of which have street running trams - cope when it seems cyclists in Weymouth cannot?

And cyclists in Porthmadog where the Welsh Highland line runs along the street to the Ffestiniog railway station?

Come to think of it, how do cyclists cope with all those potentially dangerous rails at level crossings on the national rail network?

Perhaps cyclists in Weymouth should take a tip from cyclists in these towns and take care to avoid the tram lines.  An appropriate warnng sign might help them.     


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7575 on October 31, 2011, 23:23:02
How do the cyclists in Fleetwood, Wolverhampton, Sheffield, Manchester, Croydon (and soon to be joined by Edinburgh) - all of which have street running trams - cope when it seems cyclists in Weymouth cannot?

Despite the name, the line in Weymouth is not really a tramway, there are normal rails and sleepers buried under the road surface, the gap is more like that between a mainline running rail and checkrail.  Therefore the gap is significantly deeper than a modern tram rail, where the recess is only about the same depth as a wheel flange.

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Come to think of it, how do cyclists cope with all those potentially dangerous rails at level crossings on the national rail network?

They generally ride straight across the rails, not along them...   ::)


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: inspector_blakey on November 04, 2011, 21:46:57
What's the use of keeping the Weymouth tramway? As far as I can see it's almost entirely pointless these days - there's very little shipping from the harbour, absolutely no demand for services and in any case they'd be a regulatory nightmare to reinstate on public roads. Add to that the fact that there's a signal or some other fairly permanent structure erected in the four-foot of the line just south of Weymouth station and it would seem to me that the chances of any sort of traffic running over the line is virtually zero.

The track really isn't all that historic, and just creates a risk for pedestrians, cyclists and motorists alike. Would anyone really genuinely miss it if it was removed?


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on November 04, 2011, 22:06:18
It's a waste of money removing it


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: paul7575 on November 05, 2011, 10:42:27
Concur. 

While it remains in situ 'enthusiasts' will carry on with all sorts of amazing ideas for how it could be used, but a few minutes online research suggests that the only official debate is centred on who should pay to remove it. 

NR will probably be hoping that the local council bites the bullet whenever resurfacing of the road is needed.

Paul


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: johnneyw on January 08, 2017, 17:00:32
Incidentally, the line from Weymouth Station to Weymouth Quay which served the Channel Island ferries is the subject of a rescue bid to save it from being ripped up. The aim seems to model it on the likes of the Bristol Docks Railway or the Chatham Dockyard railway. It's been started by quite a young chap who began it all with more enthusiasm than experience but has been gradually learning the ropes and has lost none of his drive to make something happen. The Weymouth Quay Heritage Campaign page on Facebook is quite informative.


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: didcotdean on January 08, 2017, 20:37:50
Good luck to anyone trying that - there have been many attempts to turn it into a tramway of some kind most latterly for the Olympics; the main problem hitherto is that it doesn't do anything like a really useful journey end-to-end to make it financially viable.


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 09, 2017, 18:18:54
In view of some renewed interest in this particular set of rails, in discussions on the Coffee Shop forum, I've now moved and merged a couple of threads here.  :)



Title: Weymouth Quay 2017
Post by: Lee on October 25, 2017, 13:35:05
A one off (for now at least) return for me, purely because I happen to be on site right now.

No trains have run to Weymouth Quay since the late 1990s, which is obviously an awfully long time ago now. If someone were to try and organise a theoretical railtour to Weymouth Quay in the present day late 2010s, can those with knowledge of these things give an idea of what would need to be done to make it feasible?


Title: Re: Weymouth Quay 2017
Post by: ChrisB on October 25, 2017, 13:39:15
I think this would have been done by the railtour companies by now if it were at all possible.

I understand that current H&S rules won't allow it, and nor would NR.


Title: Re: Weymouth Quay 2017
Post by: bradshaw on October 25, 2017, 13:59:03
I do not think is will ever see trains again. This link may be of interest



http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2016/weymouth-quay-line/


Title: Re: Weymouth Quay 2017
Post by: grahame on October 25, 2017, 14:01:44
A one off (for now at least) return for me, purely because I happen to be on site right now.

No trains have run to Weymouth Quay since the late 1990s, which is obviously an awfully long time ago now. If someone were to try and organise a theoretical railtour to Weymouth Quay in the present day late 2010s, can those with knowledge of these things give an idea of what would need to be done to make it feasible?

PARTIAL data, Lee ... to start you off

a) The Quay station has (or had when I was there) a fence / vertical post for a fence right on the platform at about the north end of the building which would need to be removed if you wanted to get more that about 1 carriage into the platform

b) There is significant undergrowth on the track where it leads onto railway land just to the west of the main Weymouth station; how much is just summer growth and how much would need to be cut back, I don't know

c) I think I read that the state of the sleepers / ties under the road surface in the area alongside the quays where points use to be is poor - may be so poor that they would not support a train.

Knowing all the H&S issues with heavy rail, perhaps a lightweight diesel or petrol tram brought in on a low loader .... driver up front, trips between the little 'island' area that's off the main road near the bus garage and the north end of the quay station?



Title: Re: Weymouth Quay 2017
Post by: paul7575 on October 25, 2017, 14:59:05
As far as I can tell from the current online sectional appendix, dated June 2017, the first part of the branch is (although overgrown) is theoretically open as a siding, from 168 m 31 ch, to the point at 168 m 52 ch, say a quarter mile. That puts the railway operational boundary right at the road crossing behind B&Q.  Depending on how you measure it the boundary might even be the south side of that road, hence including the 'crossing'.   

However beyond that point the tramway is declared permanently out of use, and no longer included in the track line drawing.  I reckon they ought to get on and finalise the full closure.

Paul


Title: Re: Weymouth Quay 2017
Post by: Bmblbzzz on October 25, 2017, 16:55:13
I do not think is will ever see trains again. This link may be of interest



http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2016/weymouth-quay-line/
Wow. Somewhere on the yootoobz I've seen a video which shows this:
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It was common for carelessly parked cars to be bounced away from the tracks when the occasional boat-train operated.
But I don't recall it showing either this:
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The train, after going across Melcombe Regis level crossing ran through streets following a railwayman walking in front of the train carrying a red flag.
or this:
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Passenger and freight trains were hauled by small tank engines through the streets and the engines had a large bell on the buffer beam which was rung by the footplate crew to warn road users that a train was approaching!


Title: Re: Weymouth Quay 2017
Post by: bradshaw on October 25, 2017, 17:28:05
This gives more detail and indicates the line south of the road now belongs to the Borough Council. There is a very strong cycling lobby asking for the removal of the rails since bikes get stuck in the gap between the rail and guard rail.

http://www.island-publishing.co.uk/quaybrch.htm

John Lucking's 1986 book on the Weymouth tramway is full of photos.

Documents in the National Archive indicate that the first scheme for a tramway went from the station to the esplanade and down the front by the sea all the way to the pier! It was rejected unsurprisingly.


Title: Re: Weymouth Quay 2017
Post by: Timmer on October 25, 2017, 17:29:32
There is a sort campaign to keep it open:
https://www.change.org/p/weymouth-weymouth-quay-heritage-railway


Title: Re: Weymouth Quay 2017
Post by: ChrisB on October 25, 2017, 18:22:36
I do not think is will ever see trains again. This link may be of interest

http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2016/weymouth-quay-line/
Wow. Somewhere on the yootoobz I've seen a video which shows this:
Quote
It was common for carelessly parked cars to be bounced away from the tracks when the occasional boat-train operated.
But I don't recall it showing either this:
Quote
The train, after going across Melcombe Regis level crossing ran through streets following a railwayman walking in front of the train carrying a red flag

Yes, I travelled behind a loco & coach set a couple of times when it still ran, and can recall this....

Quote
or this:
Quote
Passenger and freight trains were hauled by small tank engines through the streets and the engines had a large bell on the buffer beam which was rung by the footplate crew to warn road users that a train was approaching!

No, maybe in steam days?


Title: Re: Weymouth Quay 2017
Post by: bradshaw on October 25, 2017, 18:35:26
There is a large selection of images on Google-search Weymouth tramway. Some show the men walking in front of the train.

There was a summer timetabled service in the 1990s using a 37/4 laying over from the normal service. An airline style meal was served on the journey to Yeovil Pen Mill where the train stopped, then returning to Weymouth station.


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on October 25, 2017, 23:18:10
In view of some renewed interest in this particular set of rails, in discussions on the Coffee Shop forum, I've now moved and merged a couple of threads here.  :)


... and I've just done the same, again, in the interests of clarity and completeness.  ;) :D ;D



Title: Re: Weymouth Quay 2017
Post by: chrisr_75 on October 26, 2017, 00:15:40
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Passenger and freight trains were hauled by small tank engines through the streets and the engines had a large bell on the buffer beam which was rung by the footplate crew to warn road users that a train was approaching!

No, maybe in steam days?

Picture here showing said bell on the front of a class 33:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weymouth_Harbour_Tramway#/media/File%3A33109_Weymouth_Harbour_Tramway_August_1981.jpg (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weymouth_Harbour_Tramway#/media/File%3A33109_Weymouth_Harbour_Tramway_August_1981.jpg)


Title: Re: Weymouth Quay 2017
Post by: TonyK on October 26, 2017, 21:58:43

Wow. Somewhere on the yootoobz I've seen a video which shows this:
Quote
It was common for carelessly parked cars to be bounced away from the tracks when the occasional boat-train operated.


Like this video? (https://youtu.be/x6XEVvVRB_4)


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: Bmblbzzz on October 27, 2017, 21:03:37
I think that's the very one I've seen.


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: Lee on October 21, 2018, 14:08:24
New thinking emerges for Weymouth Quay line after field trip to Thailand... (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=327132754728685&id=1012606228843914)


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: eightf48544 on October 21, 2018, 16:09:45
Not so far off the mark when the tramway was running only it was cars.

My first job at Waterloo, as well as making the tea, was filing reports headed "Train hit Car" at least once a week in summer.


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: grahame on July 19, 2019, 10:55:27
Dorset Echo (five months ago - must have missed it then - re-lifed via Facebook)

https://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/17422500.campaign-for-better-transport-calls-for-weymouth-harbour-tramway-to-be-reopened/

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Fresh calls are being made to bring Weymouth's defunct harbour tramway back into use.

The new push for a revival of the quayside line comes from the Campaign for Better Transport which is making a case for an expansion of the railways by reopening or rebuilding old routes.

It says reopening railways has the potential to transform communities – relieving road congestion and pollution and making economically disadvantaged parts of the country more attractive for investment.

The harbour tramway is not included in one of the 33 national reopening schemes which the group says should be prioritised.

However it is among those listed as 'priority 2' projects; those identified in research which are said to be 'feasible but require further development or changed circumstances to assist them in being taken forward'. Changed circumstances could be, for example, housing development proposals which encroach on the route.

There is no mention of how such a scheme for Weymouth can be revived or funded, or whether it could involve a regular quay service linking with the main line near Weymouth station or – as has been explored in the past – a railcar ferrying passengers along the harbour as a tourist attraction.

Article goes on to cover the history of the tramway and has brought lots of comment


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: ChrisB on July 19, 2019, 11:07:10
I'd be interested in seeing an up to date H&S assessment....


Title: Re: Weymouth Harbour railway line - merged topic, ongoing discussion
Post by: eightf48544 on July 19, 2019, 12:24:00
I'd be interested in seeing an up to date H&S assessment....

Probably no worse than any other street running tramway.

The main problem when the boat train was running was cars parked inside the yellow lines. In places they were some distance from the running rail due to the overhang of the mark 1s on curves. So drivers thought they could park just over the line and got hit by the train! Also the length of the train. So similar problems would arise if it was a steam/diesel heritage operation.

A modern tram would have much less overhang and be shorter. The only problems with a modern tram would be that it is potentially  faster and quieter than a steam train



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