Great Western Coffee Shop

What is the longest journey they do?

The reason is.....in the last three weeks I have spent some time on a 143 and, they are not that bad for the journey that I experience them do.  PArkway to Weston all stations stop (in most cases). 

I suspect not many got from start to finish regularly.

Now, that is completely different than putting a 165 on the cotswolds line in the late afternoon (even a 166 is not good enough). 

My view would be different if they were being used for  longer distance routes

Exeter to Cardiff and return

On a 143 ??  :o ::) ;D

As a matter of course or in the case of incident/temp failure?

Daily. 9 something off Exeter, 1300 from Cardiff return. Back in Exeter in time for rush.

Ok that is unacceptable

I'm just trying - now I have some experience - to get a handle on the 142/143 issue if they are used appropriately

They are busses on rails - and the step for short legged people is worse than the 150 step up - and the step down I have to jump

I'm just wondering if there are just 1/2 diagrams where they are used inappropriately or if they are regularly runnin glike some turbos on the cotswolds

they are more suitable on the beach line,however due to fleet size etc they get allocated on longer diagrams like the exe-card and back.this is just the way it is no amount of people saying it is unacceptable will change this.what would you prefer a pacer or a cancelled service?? because due to the other fleet allocations this is what would happen if they did not use pacers.
when FGW finally get the 150/1's then the pacers will be back in bristol and as such will be more common on taunt-card run again.
as for the step on/off never had a problem myself as it is done in 2 stages.

the pacer is a leyland bus body rubber mounted to modified wagon chassis.

I found the following website http://pacer-pete.webs.com/historyofthe142.htm (http://pacer-pete.webs.com/historyofthe142.htm) which gives an interesting history of the class.

Considering as smithy says "The pacer is a Leyland bus body rubber mounted to modified wagon chassis" with a diesel engine.

It is amazing they are now 25 years old considering that BR produced them as a temporary expidient to replace the first genration DMUs. Thus they probably must, for all their faults,  count as accidentally successful.

It would be interesting to consider how many branch lines/services they saved or made more sustainable.

As i've posted before they are the only train I've ever travelled on where I've  felt sick.  This was a run back from Falmouth to Truro, I was glad the train terminated at Truro.

There was also the 143 that terminated at Nailsea: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/3754902.stm  ;D

How refreshing to see the BBC news website without that awful new design  :D

143613 if i remember correctly and was dumped at bombardier in crewe!! the only other one to be scrapped was 143615 :)

Oh dear, typical crank, hates the idea of any kind of change ;)

I rather like the new design - it seems more intuitive to me than the old one. Give it a while and you'll no doubt get used to it.


Slightly debatable: I doubt that many (any...?) passengers are making the through journey from EXD to CDF on that service, as I suspect it stops everywhere and will take a loooong time. I think the patronage mostly consists of people making shorter journeys along the way. And there are plenty of alternative services so the pacer is easy to avoid!

personally i believe that that bristol to penzance on a 150 is wrong and that happens but then again its a train, i take it pacers are banned from the gunnislake branch ... sitting on a near empty 150 on that line seems strange to me

I agree completely - the new design is horrible. I always get "taken aback" by a new design, but normally I find it better/ I get used to it. This new design is tacky, and once again the News section of the BBC website doesn't match the rest of the site, only weeks after they'd finally re-done the rest of the site to get it match the News site! It also adds no new functionality to the site.

Oh well, let's hope that if the licence fee is cut, they make "efficiencies" by getting rid of the tea that keep changing the website!

Tells you how long it is since I logged onto the beeb

Didnt even know there WAS A new design

and my opinion is that its revolting

Looks like a red top newspaper

Am I missing something obvious here...?! Because my understanding was that a Class 143 only had 2 carriages...! ???

quote from a passenger with brown pants shortly after the incident?

To be fair, various points in that particular BBC news item were criticised, on another forum, at the time: see http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic.php?f=143&t=35103

142s are Leyland bus bodies. 143s are Walter Alexander.

Pacers are indeed banned from the Gunnislake line as well as the other Cornish branch lines. I think only Truro - Falmouth is considered as remotely suitable.

This is because back in the day when BR tried to run the original 'Turners Tours' liveried sets on the Gunnislake line there were endless problems with wheel noise, rail wear (the gauge corners used to come off in shards) and massive flange wear. The wheels had to be turned at 2000 miles in order to restore the flange profile to normal which involved turning about half of the useable depth off the wheel. When they came in 2000 miles later up it went on the jacks for new wheelsets, old wheels in scrap condition after 4000 miles as there wasn't enough metal left on the flange to restore the profile.

Fairly sure at least one phyically jammed itself in the track on the tight curve after Okeltor Crossing. Wouldnt go either way and had to be rescued using a 37 and three piece coupling.

That is why Pacers do not and never will run on the Gunnislake line.   

The underframes are of different origin too. The 142 uses a BREL built underframe the 143 uses a Andrew Barclay underframe. The later 144 used the Walter Alexander body on the BREL underframe.

Reinforcing the bus theme originally they were all powered by Leyland TL11H engines (best described as a Leyland 680 with the reliability engineered out of it) coupled to a SCG R500 epicyclic gearbox (of which the less said the better). The final drive on the inner axle is also an SCG item (RF420) and although somewhat modified is still in use today.

Agreed, the lack of consistency is silly, particularly when they were recently shouting about the 'new' top bar that was consistent across the whole BBC site. Whenever I stumble across part of the BBC news website with the previous version (that dissapeared last week) I wonder why I ever moaned!

Back to pacers...  ;)

They have been known to do the Cardiff Central to Fishguard Harbour service I'm told.  I don't think a Pacer's yet done Manchester to Milford Haven.

Wasn't there a Pacer substitute for an HST that went all the way to Paddington or is that an urban myth?

They regularly run in 2 pairs on Valley Lines.  The flange screech between Cardiff Central and Queen Street has to be heard to be believed.  The best spot to feel the noise is just outside Cardiff International Arena.

It's 12 trains an hour each way for most of the day and about half of them are Pacers.

Aaargh.

I can confirm that a Pacer has indeed done Fishguard Harbour to Cardiff Central. I was sitting on the wretched thing (it was a 143, bendy-bus fans) all the way from Whitland to Cardiff. I've also travelled on a Milford Haven service that was Pacer-tuted (a 142 this time), although I think that was a service that was "only" booked to start at Gloucester when such a service ran a few years back, so not quite as bad as MAN-MFH.

I don't know if that is true... But i've known a 2 Car Class 158 to run BRI - PAD... Certainly a few interesting looks up and down the platform when that thing turned up at Bath Spa...! ;D Needless to say I ordered more coffee and waiting 30 mins for a HST ;D

Urban myth. I believe the furthest East a 142 has run in passenger service is Swindon. Although they go to Reading from time to time for engine / transmission changes if 'Much-Binding-in-the-Marsh' has got a lot of work on.

We do have 34 drivers that sign Penzance - Paddington (by any reasonable route) and 142's / 143's should the need arise though.
 ;D 

Are you sure it went all the way to PAD? I doubt it would be allowed past Swindon given that it would lose time hand over fist from there onwards. I would guess it was terminated there and passengers either transferred into a waiting HST set or decanted onto other services.

Pretty sure yes... Although it was a good couple of years back! :)

I remember turning up at Bath Spa and it being advertised on the departure screens as "Local Sprinter Service Today" I say good marks for at least making a effort to run the service as 2 car as opposed to cancelling it!

Funny you should mention that, I'm fairly sure I have a mobile phone shot of the departure screen somewhere....
 ;D

am I the only person who would rather the train cancelled than a bristol to pad pacer/sprinter

this is why sometimes I wish they would put booked traction on the timetable.

example, if the 0530 from bristol tomorrow is replaced with a pacer, even though I have tickets, I won't get on it.  I'll get the next train.  however it would mean that I could get an extra hour in bed!

I remember back in 2006/7 when the chaos happened, the 1922 was always advertised as adelante but turbo stuted.  I would rather they (1) cancel it as soon as they know or (2) as soon as they know let people know what is running - I could have left earlier to get the 1822/25/27 whatever it was back then

I learned within two weeks the time table lied. 

On anything over 30 minutes, the type of train I'm travelling on matters since I usually have some flexibility

Not sure whether a 14X ever made Padd but I seem to recall that was a regular Swansea Padd 158 either just before or after privatisation. I think it formed the last up evening train from South Wales and ran back in the middle of the night.

I've also seen 158s pass my house (Taplow) in daylight on Summer Saturdays but I think they may have been the Eurostar connection to Waterloo.

 

I don't think any Four wheel truck is suitable for journeys over 30 minutes, I don't think that a 142 or 143 is really suitable for Exeter To Barnstaple let alone Exmouth to Barnstaple.

But I seem to recall in the Wales & Borders days there was a class 153 working from Milford Haven to Penzance, think it joined something else at Bristol to work down.  Might even have been the other way round with a PNZ to Milford Haven train.

In Wales and West days there was an Exmouth - Shrewsbury working via Swansea and the Heart of Wales line that was shown in the timetable as a through journey. No equivalent return.

You may not be the only one, but at least by providing traction of some description the passengers who need to be somewhere at a certain time and are prepared to deal with the substitution have the choice, that is otherwise denied to them if the service is simply cancelled.

I think a  2 class 142's did get as far as swindon  where the train was terminated although i did here the driver wanted to take it into Paddington. I am not sure but havn't some pacers covered for a failed HST set on a service via the berk & hants to Reading?

Pacers often run the Swansea-Pembroke Dock services and also run the last service from Pembroke sometimes (which runs as far as Cardiff Central.

I could be wrong but dont pacers sometimes turn up on the Heart of Wales line as these units interact with West Wales/Swansea-Cardiff services???

I once saw a pacer on a Milford-Manchester service but think they changed to unit at Cardiff Central to a 158 or 175.


Most of ATW Pacers are on Cardiff Local Services tho.

The options had the 142's not been subleased and put into service on the Devon internals were limited. Buses to Barnstaple would probably have been the order of the day along with reducing the Exmouth line services to the franchise minimum of hourly. So better to have 142's than no trains at all I would have thought.

You are quite correct about a class 153 working through from Penzance to Milford Haven, this was worked as a portion off the single through 158 service in each direction from Penzance to Manchester. The 153 detached from 1M61 at Bristol TM (1M61 didnt call at Newport and ran round Maindee East curve, right away to Abergavenny). The corresponding return 153 working attached to 1V79 at Newport for the journey onward to Penzance.

The 142's were terminated at Swindon simply because the next HST service from the West of England was rapidly catching up with it. Most of the passengers had alighted at Bath as the 142's were to be looped at Bathhampton for a Bristol - Padd to overtake it. Driver wasn't overly bothered about going to Padd with them although I seem to remember the Guard was rather more enthusiastic at the prospect.
 ;D

No worse than Northern's Pacer operated Morecambe to Leeds service, which has multiple Pacer diagrams, or how about doing the 3hr Pacer diagram on a Sunday between Chester and Southport via Stockport?

The problem with Pacers are:

* Sharp bends cause ear ache.  It doesn't matter on the length of the journey as Pacers squeal when they switch lines leaving Manchester Piccadilly station - just a short journey gives less squealing opportunities.  Fortunately, in the SW you had Pacers banned from the worst lines.  In the NW we got modified mechanics where the wheels don't wear down after a week of being used on sharp bends.

* If they go over any uneven track or even a farmers crossing on the line they bounce.

* Low capacity: 50-60 per carriage opposed to around 75 per carriage.

Pacers and sharp bends sure cause Ear Ache.

When a Class 142 worked from Liskeard to Looe the noise was awful, passengers covered their ears on some bends.

I also remember being in Calstock when a 142 worked to Gunnislake, You could hear the wheel screech from Bere Alston all the way to Gunnislake except for a short silence (the dead straight viaduct).