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Sideshoots - associated subjects => Campaigns for new and improved services => Topic started by: anthony215 on July 20, 2010, 17:46:37



Title: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: anthony215 on July 20, 2010, 17:46:37
I was having a talk with a freind today about this line. He did make a suggestion about  possibly having a  hourly shuttle service between Yate & Avonmouth  and allowing interchange with trains to Bristol TM at Bristol Parkway and Avonmouth

I did read a proposed timetable for a loop service running from Portishead - Bristol Tm - Avonmouth - Filton - Bristol Tm - Potishead, does anyone have a copy of this? as i cant seem to find it on google.

If not are there any documents which have a proposed copy or does anyone know how long  journey times  would be between Avonouth & Bristol Parkway over the Henbury loop as i am trying to come up with my own proposed timetable for a half hourly service over the severn beach branch with a train between Avonmouth & Severn Beach every hour


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: eightf48544 on July 21, 2010, 09:49:25
Whilst a Yate via Avonmouth BRI service via Parkway would be a very good idea, where would teh stock come from.

FGW is currently pushed to get enough units every day to run existing services.

I've always thought Bristol and District would be an ideal place to run proper dual voltage tram trains.

The system would be Portishead BRI Avonmouth and Stapleton Road to Yate maybe Thornbury all heavy rail electrified at 25KV to allow electric freight hauled trains, plus a street running loop from the Portishead line through the docks to the town centre and picking up the heavy rail somewhere near Lawrence Hill. Electrified at 600V DC for street running.

This is what happens in Saarbrucken the trams leave the heavy rail line East of the town run through the streets past the Hbf and rejoin an old heavy rail branch East of the town.

The trouble is we've got no imagination in this country. We know the cost of everrything and the value of nothing.
 


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: ellendune on December 12, 2011, 20:56:45
The BBC is reporting that extra seats are being provided on the Henbury Loop.  I was sure it closed to passengers in the 1960's but I must have imagined it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-16142037

Quote
Trains in the Bristol area have been fitted with six extra carriages, First Great Western has announced.

The company said the extra space, which was introduced on Monday, would provide another 800 seats on the Severn Beach line and the Henbury loop.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: inspector_blakey on December 12, 2011, 21:03:05
Weird. In the BBC's favour, however, they have managed to illustrate the article with a picture of appropriate traction working on the route itself, rather than a generic "SWT services at Waterloo"-type shot.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 12, 2011, 21:11:53
Odd, indeed.  ::)

What the First Great Western press release actually said is:

Quote
FGW INTRODUCES ADDITIONAL CARRIAGES TO BRISTOL

First Great Western will welcome six additional train carriages to train services across the Bristol area, from Monday, December 12.

Earlier this year First Great Western secured a deal with the Department for Transport to deliver six additional vehicles to improve capacity in the Bristol area.

Two additional Class 150 units (four vehicles) and two Class 153 units (two vehicles) were received from London Midland, and First Great Western has been working hard to have the units ready for the launch of the December timetable.

The trains are expected to provide an extra 800 seats on services around the city at peak times alone.

This latest strengthening comes in addition to last month's announcement of First Great Western successfully secured investing in 48 additional carriages to come into service across the network between February and September 2012.

First Great Western Managing Director Mark Hopwood said:
^Passenger growth in and around Bristol has risen throughout our franchise. While that demand is gratifying in one respect, it can lead to overcrowding on peak services, which is why we^ve been working for some time to secure additional carriages.

"I^m delighted customers can now benefit, and I applaud the Department for Transport, Members of Parliament, local authorities and other key partners who supported our efforts.^

Rail Minister Theresa Villiers said:
^These extra carriages are great news for passengers. The Government is determined to tackle overcrowding and provide better, more comfortable journeys, which is why we are funding this extra capacity.

^We are now embarked on one of the biggest programmes of rail capacity expansion since the Victorian era. In total we plan to introduce 2,700 new rail carriages on to the network by May 2019. These vital improvements will support economic growth and make life better for passengers.^

Bristol West MP Stephen Williams said:
^I am delighted that my constituents will benefit from increased capacity around the city. I frequently receive complaints from constituents about busy trains to and from Temple Meads; this is a much needed and welcome addition. I will continue to work with my Coalition colleagues and First Great Western to ensure that we improve transport for passengers in Bristol.^


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: JayMac on December 13, 2011, 00:24:32
Another e-mail sent.  ::)

I know the BBC have faced many budget and staff cuts this year, but there really is no need for such sloppy journalism. London Midlands (sic) getting 172 new trains and now extra seats on a freight only line!

One call to a TOCs Press Office is all it takes. Or just properly reading press releases.

Come on BBC you can better than this.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: ellendune on December 16, 2011, 21:29:33
May be I was wrong to assume that it was that the closure had been imagined. Perhaps they were ahead of the game on re-opening as the Brisol Evening post is reporting

Quote
HOPES of re-opening two railway stations have been given a boost with the inclusion of Henbury and the old Filton Halt in a planning blueprint for South Gloucestershire.

With thousands of homes set to be built on and around Filton airfield, bringing passenger services back onto the Hallen loop would be a major help in improving public transport.

South Gloucestershire Council said it was working with Network Rail and other interested parties on the proposal, which would be subject to a satisfactory business case being developed.

Those who have campaigned for years to use the line for passengers welcomed the approach.

Two-thirds of the airfield ^ due to be closed by owner BAE Systems at the end of 2012 ^ had been allocated for some 2,500 homes in the council's draft core strategy to help meet a larger level of new housing demanded by a planning inspector.

Despite a campaign to keep the airfield operational, consultants said it had no commercial future as an airport and the aviation industry would not be adversely affected by its closure.

The wider Filton, Patchway and Cribbs Causeway area is also set for housing expansion and roads will have to be built or upgraded to cope with more traffic.

But opening the Hallen loop to passenger trains ^ it is currently used to carry freight ^ would get more people off roads and on to public transport.

The council said the scale of development in the area gave an opportunity to look at opening the stations.

.....
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/story-14154248-detail/story.html (http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/story-14154248-detail/story.html)


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: JayMac on December 16, 2011, 21:36:54
I'd like to see the existing 'Henbury loop' realigned so that it runs closer to the Cribbs Causeway retail complex (ie to the north of the current Filton runway), with a Parkway/public transport interchange station built as close as possible to Lysander Road.

Such a condition could be stipulated by the local authority when the time comes to grant planning permission for the redevelopment of Filton airport.

I'm not holding my breath though.....


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: XPT on December 18, 2011, 10:59:07
LOL several years ago now I was really into Microsoft Train Simulator on the PC.  And I created a route(it didn't have any scenery though and is certainly not up to todays standards of MSTS routes) featuring a section of the Great Western mainline from Chippenham-Taunton.  As well as the Severn Beach branch and Portishead branch with all former stations re-opened, and Ashley Hill, Horfield, North Filton, and Henbury stations re-opened.  And a branch off from Henbury extending to Cribbs Causeway The Mall.  It was good fun to design timetables and drive DMU's on these services featuring the re-opened stations and the Cribbs Causeway branch. 

(an at the time WIP screenshot)
(http://album.atomic-systems.com/showPic.php/37218/GWML%20West8.jpg)


However in the real world, will we ever see the Portishead branch re-opened for passenger services and such stations as Horfield, North Filton, and Henbury stations re-opened for passenger service?  I too am not holding my breath.....


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: TonyK on April 11, 2012, 21:08:45
Anthony, if you are still looking for information, the Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways have done some excellent work. http://fosbr.org.uk/network.
I have travelled over the Henbury loop from Patchway once, during the closure of the mainline when Filton Abbey Wood was having its third platform built. I think it was about 15 minutes to Avonmouth, where a Voyager train was waiting for us to clear the single track. There was another train, IIRC an Intercity 125, at Clifton Down. Journey times from Parkway would be similar.
Severn Beach to Portishead, and SVB to Bath, both come in very close to an hour, ideal for a clock-face service with 2tph SVB to BRI. That will be nice!
eightf, How right you are about our imagination. I noticed for the first time that the bridge over the floating harbour into Temple Meads has room for a right-hand turn by platform 1. That would be perfect for a tram line running across Plot 6, next to the Brunel shed, through a demolished Grosvenor Hotel, and down Redcliffe Way to follow the original ATA route to the centre. A return loop via Cabot Circus, and Temple Way, or even down Old Market, rejoining between Lawrence Hill and the Dings.
But it needs imagination and money, both in short supply.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on April 11, 2012, 22:02:10
No need to even demolish the Grosvenor Hotel, surely? Just follow the line of the old Bristol Docks Railway towards St Mary Redcliffe church along Redcliffe Way?


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: anthony215 on April 12, 2012, 15:00:27
Anthony, if you are still looking for information, the Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways have done some excellent work. http://fosbr.org.uk/network.
I have travelled over the Henbury loop from Patchway once, during the closure of the mainline when Filton Abbey Wood was having its third platform built. I think it was about 15 minutes to Avonmouth, where a Voyager train was waiting for us to clear the single track. There was another train, IIRC an Intercity 125, at Clifton Down. Journey times from Parkway would be similar.
Severn Beach to Portishead, and SVB to Bath, both come in very close to an hour, ideal for a clock-face service with 2tph SVB to BRI. That will be nice!
eightf, How right you are about our imagination. I noticed for the first time that the bridge over the floating harbour into Temple Meads has room for a right-hand turn by platform 1. That would be perfect for a tram line running across Plot 6, next to the Brunel shed, through a demolished Grosvenor Hotel, and down Redcliffe Way to follow the original ATA route to the centre. A return loop via Cabot Circus, and Temple Way, or even down Old Market, rejoining between Lawrence Hill and the Dings.
But it needs imagination and money, both in short supply.

Thank you for the link I will have a look on that site


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: TonyK on April 12, 2012, 20:31:01
No need to even demolish the Grosvenor Hotel, surely? Just follow the line of the old Bristol Docks Railway towards St Mary Redcliffe church along Redcliffe Way?

Except that route went over the now demolished bridge by the Grosvenor, then along a path no longer accessible behind Redcliffe Way. The portal to the tunnel is still visible if you look over the wall opposite the south-east corner of the church grounds, behind Townsend House. You would need to demolish more than just the Grosvenor to get at it, unless light rail up Prewett Street could do the business. The Grosvenor, of which I could tell a story or two (privately), looks doomed, the George and Railway less so. There is in any case room for light rail across the Temple Circus roundabout, then down a re-aligned Redcliffe Way. Not likely to ever happen.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 21, 2013, 23:45:38
From the Bristol Post (http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Share-memories-Henbury-Loop-railway-line/story-17917739-detail/story.html):

Quote
Share memories of Henbury Loop railway line

Rail enthusiasts and Bristol residents are being invited to share their memories of the Henbury Loop railway line, which went out of service in 1964.

It is part of a campaign ^ spearheaded by Bristol North West MP Charlotte Leslie ^ to bring the loop back into use as part of the Bristol Metro.

Under current plan put forward by the West of England Partnership, the city's Metro rail system would have a spur at Henbury, meaning trains would return the way they came.

Ms Leslie says this is a huge missed opportunity and places like Henbury and Filton need to be connected to Shirehampton and large employment areas like Avonmouth. Now she wants residents to tell their stories by submitting photos, home movies, memorabilia and also taking part in interviews.

She said: "The Henbury Loop was an integral part of Bristol's rail network in the past and it needs to be part of it in the future. It would be great to hear stories from people who used the loop and those who worked on it. The city needs this fully functioning Henbury Loop otherwise we run the risk of having a half-baked rail system which is not fit for purpose in the 21st century. With Henbury being a vital link for Cribbs and all the seemingly inevitable development in Filton, the city will come to a halt without a proper rail network. We managed to have a proper Henbury Loop line in the past ^ we should have one for our future."

Ms Leslie has been in discussions with mayor George Ferguson about the need for the loop and Government ministers have indicated they are willing to support investigation into work to make it happen.

If you have memories to share, please email henburyloop@charlotte leslie.comor write to Charlotte Leslie MP, Henbury Loop Campaign, 5 Westfield Park, Bristol BS6 6LT.

There is also a petition at www.henburyloop.bristolpetitions.com.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 06, 2013, 23:45:16
From The Post (Bristol) (http://www.portisheadpeople.co.uk/Hundreds-sign-petition-Henbury-loop-train-line/story-18048042-detail/story.html):

Quote
Hundreds sign petition for Henbury loop train line to be included in Bristol Metro plans

Bristol North West MP Charlotte Leslie has lobbied rail minister Simon Burns to make the case for the proposed Henbury Loop line to actually be a loop.

(http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/images/localpeople/ugc-images/275775/Article/images/18048042/4533676.jpg)
The Bristol Metro. The current plans would end the line at Henbury, but campaigners want them to continue to St Andrew's Park and complete the loop

Hundreds of supporters have already signed Ms Leslie's petition calling for the proposed new rail track to be extended. The campaign, being organised by Ms Leslie and local councillor Chris Windows, is calling for the so-called Henbury Loop to be extended from a spur to make a full loop.

The new line is part of the plans for the Bristol Metro network and under the current scheme service would end at Henbury rather than connecting to the Severn Beach line and the rest of the network.

The existing line is currently used by freight traffic but campaigners want it to also be opened to passengers.

As previously reported in The Post almost ^1.8 million of investment has been approved by Bristol's mayor George Ferguson to prepare for work on reopening lines and stations in and around Bristol by the end of 2015. The rest of the project will be funded by central government and it is estimated it will take up until 2023 to complete in its entirety.

Phase One of the Bristol Metro ^ including half-hourly trains to Severn Beach and the reopening of the Portishead line ^ could be completed by 2017/18.

Reopening the Henbury line and additional stations at Horfield and Ashley Down is expected to be completed in Phase Two.

Ms Leslie said: "We believe that a Henbury spur would be a disastrously missed opportunity of a generation. A Henbury Loop would not only be well used, it would transform Bristol's transport infrastructure."

She added: "We should be making the strongest possible case for the need for a loop rather than a spur line."

Several hundred people have already signed the petition and there is growing support for the campaign.

Ms Leslie said: "Petty party politics have held Bristol back for too long. We organised a meeting for the city and region's MPs with Rail Minister Simon Burns to specifically make the case for a 'loop not a spur' line."

She added: "I have been fighting for this with local campaigners for so long. So I was absolutely delighted that the minister listened to the case I put forward, and as a result will do a proper feasibility study for the case for the Henbury Loop line. But now we need to demonstrate there really is huge demand for this. I am pressing our mayor, George Ferguson, to use his influence too in the matter. We all need to speak with one voice ^ residents, businesses, young people, the elderly, to say we need a Henbury Loop Line."

The campaigners say the loop would connect Henbury with Avonmouth, Shirehampton, Sea Mills and North Bristol. And they claim communities such as Shirehampton have lost out on facilities and need to travel to use swimming pools and leisure centres. They also claim the rail line would help to ease congestion on the roads of north Bristol and South Gloucestershire.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: grahame on February 07, 2013, 06:21:30
Quote
The Bristol Metro. The current plans would end the line at Henbury, but campaigners want them to continue to St Andrew's Park and complete the loop

Is that supposed to say "St Andrew's Road", or is this "Park" the name of the junction where the loop joins the Severn Beach line?


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: TonyK on February 07, 2013, 16:47:15
I reckon that's St Andrews Road. The junction is Hallen Marsh, IIRC. The quote is from the Bristol Post, which probably reported the William Tell incident as " Woman Shoots Orange off Daughter's Head with Longbow in France"


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: swrural on February 07, 2013, 18:34:47
I think I mentioned my Feb 1958 experience waiting an hour at St Andrews Road for the train to return from Severn Beach.  I was 'froze' as we Bristolians say.  The notion of 'Park' is difficult to raise in my brain.  I cannot imagine why Ms Leslie thinks anyone would want, voluntarily, to go there.  It wasn't near any work place when I was there but I think there are a few sheds there now.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 07, 2013, 23:39:24
St Andrews Road (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/smr/SAR.html) has a reasonable footfall these days - enough to keep it as an active station on the Severn Beach Line, even without the additional services that could be provided via the Henbury Loop.  ;)


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: JayMac on February 07, 2013, 23:57:50
The footfall this morning on the 0800 from St Andrews Road to Bristol Temple Meads was precisely two.

Me.

I have two feet.  :P ;) ;D

I've recently taken to catching this service from St Andrews Road for the sheer novelty of hailing a train. The local bus from where I live goes to the Avonmouth area via Shirehampton, but I always ended up twiddling my thumbs at Shirehampton Station for 20 minutes. So now, when I plan to catch the the 0754 ex Severn Beach, I pay the 50p extra on the bus and take it through to the the Avonmouth trading estate and do the 5 minute walk to St Andrews Road.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: TonyK on February 08, 2013, 20:36:58
I think the future for St Andrews Road could well be brighter than the past. There are (were) plans for Cabot Park to be the major intermodal goods hub that it isn't yet. The Deep Sea Container Port, when (if) built will employ a lot of people. I recall a study about 20 years back that suggested the station was in the wrong place because no-one worked by it, but businesses have come and gone before our winking eye, and no-one even cared enough to say goodbye. So long as Bignosemac doesn't lose a leg, though, the footfall will be at least two every now and then. Shame you have to buy a separate bus ticket, and can't one that includes the train, and I don't mean "Plusbus".


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 16, 2013, 21:43:27
From the Bristol Post (http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Loop-solve-problems-stroke/story-20060974-detail/story.html) - an opinion piece by David Wood, National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers, Bristol (written in a personal capacity):

Quote
Loop will solve our problems at a stroke

I attended a Henbury Loop rail meeting at the Greenway Centre, Southmead. It was hosted by Charlotte Leslie, MP for Bristol North West, as the Henbury Loop line passes through her constituency.

The reason for the meeting was to address the growing concern about the excessive amounts of traffic on our roads. There were representatives from Network Rail, First Great Western, South Gloucestershire Council, Bristol City Council, the Local Enterprise Partnership, the West of England Partnership, the University of the West of England, Bridgehouse Capital Ltd and Osborne Clarke.

Traffic is clogging up our overburdened roads ^ and the problem is getting worse. The solution is to identify corridors which can be used exclusively for public transport. This will result in reliable services which will avoid congestion. And the Henbury Loop is one of those corridors.

It has been identified as a solution, giving people an alternative mode of public transport and easing the reliance on road transport that is clogging up the roads.

The Henbury Loop is now a freight-only line. However, it is already used as a diversionary route for passenger trains when any disruptions occur on the Filton Bank between Narroway's Hill Junction and Filton Abbeywood station. But it should be used full-time for passenger services.

The Henbury Loop runs beside Filton Airfield where up to 5,700 houses are being planned. So using the line for passenger trains and reopening North Filton and Henbury stations make perfect sense.

North Filton station is situated just off the A38 close to North Filton and South Filton colleges. Until the 1980s it was used to get workers to Rolls-Royce which is very close to the station. The station still has its two platform but they are overgrown with vegetation. This should be cleared and the neighbouring land used for a park-and-ride facility and a rail/bus interchange.

I understand the plan is to reopen the Henbury Loop to passenger trains by 2023. But, rightly, there have been calls to bring forward this date.

We really do need to invest in underused railway lines to help ease congestion on the roads.

The Henbury Loop line meets the criteria required to improve public transport at a stroke and get more people out of their cars and on to trains.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: JayMac on November 16, 2013, 22:21:50
Rather than re-open North Filton station - the area is adequately served by Filton Abbey Wood - I think there should be a new station actually on the loop line.

Just to the West of Gloucester Rd North (A38) on former Filton Airfield land. With a link road across the former airfield to the newly built Hayes Way, giving access to Cribbs Causeway. Then a bus shuttle should run from this, 'Charlton Hayes - for Cribbs Causeway' railway station to the retail park bus station.

Some time ago, I suggested slewing the rail line so that it ran to the southern boundary of Cribbs Causeway, but that has been ky-boshed by the building of Hayes Way in preparation for the Charlton Hayes housing development.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: anthony215 on November 17, 2013, 18:29:35
Considering the line is intact I wonder if  they could get a regular service before 2023  with trains running to/from Bristol TM until the line through to Portishead is re-opened.

We have seen how the branch to Ebbw Vale really helped that valley and since it serves a more  developed area I can see the Henbury loop being a even biger sucess. The line also passes close to Hitachi's depot so workers could also use the service.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: TonyK on November 18, 2013, 20:35:31
Considering the line is intact I wonder if  they could get a regular service before 2023  with trains running to/from Bristol TM until the line through to Portishead is re-opened.

We have seen how the branch to Ebbw Vale really helped that valley and since it serves a more  developed area I can see the Henbury loop being a even biger sucess. The line also passes close to Hitachi's depot so workers could also use the service.

This one will be the prime exemplar of the whole chicken / egg question. The plans for Avonmouth's Deep Sea Container Port would see the Henbury double line filled to capacity with goods traffic, but they are on hold. The plans for Filton Airfield, tragically ripped from my own usage, will see another 5,700 homes built alongside an already chock A38, whilst Highwood Road has been shut to private traffic to try to make Metrobust a better idea.

The clever man would have the developers of the airfield make use of its at grade rail crossing to build a spur to Cribbs, and a station within the new development, so that the effect is mitigated before a brick is laid. In practice, South Gloucestershire DC will happily bill the new residents for an estimated ^6 to ^8 million pa, whilst doing little or nothing to ease their way to their jobs in Bristol until the latter can't cope with the congestion any more.

The relative positions of cart and horse remain to be decided.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: JayMac on December 07, 2013, 14:57:01
Last night there was a film presentation by Charlotte Leslie, MP for Bristol North West, at Henbury Sports & Social Club. The film was made by a student of City of Bristol college and features some history of the line through Henbury as well as the thoughts of former railway staff and current campaigners.

Sadly, although the event was but a short bus ride from my house, I only got the email reminder for it from Charlotte the evening before, so wasn't able to attend.

The short documentary film is now available on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlcTz-5p9RM


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: John R on December 07, 2013, 15:38:40
A little disappointed with the film to be honest. Lots of reminiscing, but not very much in terms of a coherent argument as to why the Loop Line is a good idea.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 07, 2013, 20:59:34
Thanks, John R.

Having also watched that film, I was rather impressed with Charlotte's pieces to camera in particular, and with Dave Wood's comments: I thought they actually summed up the case for the reopening of the Henbury Loop very well - in the context of a fairly brief 7 minute film.

The other interviews contributed to the '... & Then' part, as a background to that "Henbury loop line 'Now & Then'" documentary, I thought.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: JayMac on December 20, 2013, 22:19:51
From the Bristol Post (http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Stadium-benefit-plan-Henbury-Loop/story-20347009-detail/story.html):

Quote
Bristol Rovers stadium could be key to extending rail line

TRANSPORT Ministers are likely to look more favourably on proposals to reopen the Henbury Loop line if Bristol Rovers' new stadium is built.

The admission was made by Transport Minister Stephen Hammond in response to a Parliamentary question by Bristol North West MP Charlotte Leslie.

Speaking during transport question on the floor of the House of Commons, Tory MP Ms Leslie asked the Minister whether "such large infrastructure projects could have a massively positive impact on the business case for such a line".

Ms Leslie told MPs: "There are advanced plans for a large stadium development as well as significant housing in the area that the Henbury Loop would serve. Does the Minister not think that such large infrastructure projects could have a massively positive impact on the business case for such a line?"

In response, Mr Hammond said that stadium developments were "exactly" the type of scheme that would be looked at when considering the area's transport needs.

He said that Ms Leslie "would not expect me to comment on a specific scheme, but stadium developments such as those are exactly the sort of thing that local enterprise partnerships and local authorities will want to look at".

Mr Hammond said he had been made aware of details of the Metro- West transport scheme for the Bristol area and met representatives of the West of England LEP last month.

Earlier Ms Leslie pressed the Minister on what steps he was taking to invest in local railway branch lines.

In response, Mr Hammond said it is for local authorities, working with local enterprise partnerships (LEPs), to determine whether investment in a local branch line is the best way to meet local transport needs.

"Local enterprise partnerships have been invited to bid for the local growth fund, and we encourage them to bid for funds to invest in transport schemes," he added.

Earlier this month, Ms Leslie attacked campaigners trying to stop a Sainsbury's supermarket being built on the site of Rovers' existing ground, the Memorial Stadium. The Sainsbury's development is vital to the funding of the stadium planned for University of the West of England land near Abbey Wood.

The Henbury Loop is a stretch of line which runs from the disused Filton station and across the northern fringe of the city to Avonmouth.

It is seen as a crucial element of MetroWest ^ the opening of disused lines and stations at North Filton, Henbury and Chittening to provide a full network of local rail services to ease traffic congestion in the Bristol area.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: JayMac on August 02, 2014, 17:52:01
From the Bristol Post (http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/MP-Charlotte-Leslie-calls-talks-Bristol-Port/story-22050951-detail/story.html):

Quote
MP Charlotte Leslie calls for talks with Bristol Port over missing rail link

BRISTOL MP and transport campaigner Charlotte Leslie is calling for urgent talks with the Bristol Port after it emerged the company is ^hostile^ to the reopening of so-called Henbury Loop Line.

At the moment the line, which skirts the Filton area, is used by freight traffic but the plan is to open it up to passenger trains.

The line is seen as crucial for the multi-million Bristol Metro plans which would connect rail services across the city.

But in an open letter to the Bristol Post the Port Authority admitted to being hostile to the scheme.

The port^s director of communications Sue Turner said reopening the Henbury Loop to passenger traffic would affect access to the site for around a quarter of the working day.

The Bristol Port is one of the most influential businesses in the Avonmouth area and helps to create an estimated 8,400 jobs in Avonmouth and beyond.

Conservative MP Charlotte Leslie is a long-term supporter of the Henbury Loop and she was astonished to hear the Port is opposed to the scheme.

Ms Leslie said two previous letters from the Port had talked of a desire to negotiate for ^mutually beneficial ways forward^.

She is now asking for complete clarification on where the port stands on the issue. She is also calling for a meet with port officials and transport experts to explore a positive way forward.

Ms Leslie^s letter has also challenged the Port over a recent survey by Severnet ^ a group of organisations and individuals promoting the area around Avomouth and Portbury - which refused to include the Loop as part of a recent survey of Avonmouth businesses.

Ms Leslie said: ^The Henbury Loop is much bigger than any employer, organisation or individual. There is a bigger picture here which will bring benefits for the whole city and a stance of being ^hostile^ to a scheme which is so widely desired and needed is, frankly, astonishing.

^I do understand there are concerns about road access but we should be sitting round a table discussing them, not digging our heels in if we don^t get our way.

^The Port is in an almost unique position in believing that rail is not the answer for the area, with the vast majority of businesses, residents, charities and civic organisations believing exactly the opposite.^

Ian Smith of the Avon Business Club - which serves the whole Bristol area ^ has also written to Ms Turner expressing his shock over the Port^s ^irrational^ stance on the scheme.

He said: ^The only negative aspect I can see to the proposals is the ^hostility^ of Bristol Port. The benefits meanwhile will bring better public transport for the whole of Bristol, affordable transport access for both business and employees, and commuting benefits for train users and motorists alike

^In my opinion and in the opinion of the vast majority of local business, it's time to get reservations regarding the loop resolved and some firm action taken to move the project forward.^

In her letter to the Post Ms Turner, stated: ^The reason that we are hostile to the Henbury Loop is because it would mean the road entrances into Avonmouth Dock closing for up to 25 per cent of the day to allow the trains to pass over the level crossings. Bridges or tunnels are not feasible alternatives.

^We are keen supporters of public transport for the Avonmouth/Severnside area but trains not the only answer ^ a flexible bus service tailored to the shifts people work would give much needed flexibility and could be put in place very quickly.^


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Bmblbzzz on July 09, 2015, 11:26:50
Quote
Hopes to reopen the long-awaited Henbury Loop passenger rail line have been dealt a major blow.

Details of a new line and stations to Henbury have been put forward in the preliminary business case for Phase 2 of MetroWest.

But the line will not connect with the existing Severn Beach line, while a station in Lockleaze has also been deemed nonviable.

Charlotte Leslie called the ^lunatic decision^ not to connect the lines a ^diabolically missed opportunity of a generation".



The loop and Constable Road station have been excluded from the Phase 2 business case
Transport campaigners said the loop had been ^kicked into the long grass^ without consideration for future passengers.

The preliminary business case favours a ^Henbury spur^, where trains will turn back towards Temple Meads instead of continuing on.

The report supports new or reopened passenger stations at Henbury, North Filton and Ashley Down, but omits a station at Constable Road, Lockleaze.

The loop and the Lockleaze station were excluded to fit the Government^s ^43 million budget for the project, said West of England councils.

But campaigner David Redgewell, from the South West Transport Network, said the report was flawed as it had ^not taken into account the huge business developments in Severnside^.

He said the loop could have provided transport to future employees of planned developments in Pilning, Avonmouth, Severn Beach and Hallen.

Freinds of Suburban Bristol Rail added that the omission of a loop connection was "frankly ridiculous" given the proposed development in the area.



Leslie says the decision will have "diabolical" consequences
Leslie, Conservative MP for Bristol North West and long-time Henbury Loop campaigner, said 5,000 new homes on Filton Airfield without a comprehensive rail link to jobs would cause gridlock on the roads.

She added: ^In the year of Bristol's Green Capital, this lunatic decision raises the most serious questions over the competence and interests of Bristol's top decision makers and I will not let this rest until common sense and public interest triumph."

Phase 1 of MetroWest, which includes reopening the passenger line to Portishead with a new station in Pill by 2019, is currently under consultation ahead of a planning application.

If Phase 2 is agreed there will be a total of five new or reopened stations by 2021, including Henbury, North Filton and Ashley Down, at a total cost of ^100 million.

^Three years ago this seemed impossible - now, by planning our transport investment across different modes and across the whole area, rather than individually - we are starting to make a real difference,^ said Brian Allinson, chairman of the West of England Joint Transport Board.

He said budget constraints meant councils could go ahead with the business case "or do nothing", before adding that a Henbury Loop connection and a station in Lockleaze should not be ruled out for the future.

The last new rail station to open in the West of England area was Filton Abbeywood in 1996.



Contstable Road station has been excluded due to projected passenger numbers and its close proximity to Ashley Down
http://www.bristol247.com/channel/news-comment/daily/transport/henbury-loop-kicked-into-long-grass

I was never quite convinced of the sense of a loop for Henbury ^ it seemed to leave Severn Beach even more out on a limb than it currently is ^ but I'll be disappointed if we don't get at least one of Constable Road and Ashley Down.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 09, 2015, 11:34:00
More on this on the Bristol Post website ( http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/MP-Charlotte-Leslie-condemns-plans-scrap-Henbury/story-26862876-detail/story.html ) and all over Charlotte Leslie's twitter thing ( https://twitter.com/clesliemp )


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: TonyK on July 10, 2015, 21:06:18
A huge shock. Well. a bit of a shock. Actually, not much of a shock at all.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: JayMac on July 10, 2015, 21:38:56
Charlotte Leslie, MP for Bristol North West, is not far short of apoplectic based on her social media musings.

No PPS or junior ministry job for her any time soon.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on July 11, 2015, 00:13:15
On the other hand, please give her credit for fighting her corner for her constituents ...

(http://appgboxing.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/charlotte_leslie__tom_stalker_30-06-1111.jpg)

Charlotte Leslie MP is also the President of Avonmouth National Smelting Company Boxing Club.  ;)


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: JayMac on July 18, 2015, 20:30:37
The bonkers report prepared for the West of England Partnership and MetroWest stakeholders is for Henbury to be served by a passenger service terminating and turning back. That's despite most of the infrastructure being in place for trains to continue to Avonmouth, thence Clifton Down and Bristol TM as a loop service. I really can't understand how these  so called consultants came up with such a ludicrous conclusion that this was the best way for Henbury and the surrounding major housing developments to be served. Effectively we'll have two branch line services separated by little more than a mile. Understandable if track had to be relaid, but not when there's a double track line, well engineered as it's used by heavy freight, already there. Avonmouth is a major employment centre for Bristol and failing to link it with passenger rail services to the major housing development on the old Filton airfield is bloody ludicrous.

Once again we see short sighted and ill conceived plans eminating from the West of England Partnership and the local authorities of Bristol and surrounding areas. Bunch of muppets.

Unsurprisingly, Charlotte Leslie MP is still spitting feathers:

http://bristolpost.co.uk/Transport-leaders-decision-Henbury-Spur-loop/story-26927540-detail/story.html


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Red Squirrel on July 18, 2015, 20:37:58
I can see why the loop service is desirable, but I've never understood how it would fit into the existing Severn Beach Line service pattern.

Wouldn't a full 30-min loop service would either relagate Severn Beach to a spur shuttle, or imply a 15-minute service between St Andrew's Rd and Temple Meads (and consequent re-doubling of that line)? What have I missed?


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: JayMac on July 18, 2015, 21:04:38
Portion working?

The Severn Beach problem is a little knotty, but I'm sure it could be overcome. To use that as an excuse for only giving Henbury a turnback service is not, I believe, what the muppet manifesto business plan has suggested.

http://travelwest.info/project/metrowest-phase-2-preliminary-business-case

The report's writers knew their audience with the many references suggesting bus is best. Music to the bus lovers ears on Bristol City Council.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: John R on July 18, 2015, 21:30:03
Severn Beach is indeed a problem. I suspect if the current train service only ran to Avonmouth then the loop would have been the preferred choice.  Being slightly controversial I suspect passenger volumes at SB are relatively low (given the zonal fares, I'm not sure the published figures give a good representation), which is why for many years most services turned back at Avonmouth. Given both the current opportunity and growth anticipated on the Henbury loop, it would seem the loop is being held back by the need to maintain the relatively underused extremity of the existing branch line.

A possible radical solution would be to resite Pilning station closer to Severn Beach, maybe just east of the A403, and introduce an hourly (rather than weekly) service.  Would need to ensure that the station was beyond the first signal after the tunnel coming west, else it would constrain capacity through the tunnel, and I guess the railway is in a cutting there, so could be difficult to construct. But would give a much faster journey into Bristol, and compensate for a much reduced or removed service between SB and Avonmouth.

Radical, but railways have to move with the times, and if it meant a Henbury loop service was viable, maybe it would be for the greater good of North Bristol connectivity.



 


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: grahame on July 19, 2015, 01:33:18
Portion working?

Out of fashion, but sounds like an option.  If services from Temple Meads via Clifton Down were 4 cars, would 2 cars to Severn Beach and 2 cars to Temple Meads via Henbury be about right?   Given that Severn Beach is onlly server by some of via Clifton Down serves, would the others extend via Henbury, with some services via Henbury turning back (at Henbury or Avonmounth) - thus giving a complete loop with a less frequent service at the quieter outer extreme, but never the less a useful service.  Note - questions asked by someone who's not an expert.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on July 19, 2015, 02:08:56
Note - questions asked by someone who's not an expert.

I'd really welcome their direct input, as a posting member on the Coffee Shop forum - they know a darned sight more than me about the logistical possibilities!  :o


Title: Henbury Spur Backed for Bristol
Post by: eightf48544 on August 27, 2015, 15:27:38
September Modern Railways page 10.

It appears that the MetroWest Phase 2 preliminary business case has concluded that loop operation would not provide value for money.

Phase 1 is apparently te ePortishead line half hourly services on the Severn Beach line and intermediate stations between Bristol and Bath.

Phase 2 is hourly to Henbury (Spur from Abbey Wood) with an intermediate station at North Filton and an half hourly service to Yate.

Please move to a more appropriate thread.


Title: Re: Henbury Spur Backed for Bristol
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 28, 2015, 03:17:32
Please move to a more appropriate thread.

Thanks, eightf48544 - I have done exactly that.  ;)


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 08, 2015, 16:10:49
From an article in today's Bristol Post: (http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Transport-leaders-urged-don-t-kick-Henbury-Loop/story-27758514-detail/story.html#ixzz3l9yPDVab)

Quote

Councillors at a meeting of the West of England Partnership's joint scrutiny commission yesterday accused the experts of lacking vision and producing flawed data based on wrong assumptions.

But they also had to admit that closing the door completely on a "spur" would cause a delay while a new business case was worked up on a loop.

The result could be thousands of new homes at Filton Airfield and the surrounding development land - but not enough public transport infrastructure to help people travel without using their cars. It would mean the regular gridlock would get much worse.

In the end, councillors voted 4 to 3 in favour of "a strong preference for the Henbury Loop".

But they added a rider which said if the partnership's board decides next week in favour of a "spur", then a loop should not be kicked into the long grass and forgotten.

James White, from the West of England, said a "spur" already made provision for "future-proofing" a loop at a later date.


The word they should use is 'tempry' - a good old Bristolian word that means "It's not much cop, but it's the best you're likely to get".


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: TonyK on September 08, 2015, 23:00:53

The report's writers knew their audience with the many references suggesting bus is best. Music to the bus lovers ears on Bristol City Council.


More accurately, music to the ears of the road builders at South Glos and North Somerset parish councils. ITA, anyone?

Severn Beach is indeed a problem. I suspect if the current train service only ran to Avonmouth then the loop would have been the preferred choice.  Being slightly controversial I suspect passenger volumes at SB are relatively low (given the zonal fares, I'm not sure the published figures give a good representation), which is why for many years most services turned back at Avonmouth. Given both the current opportunity and growth anticipated on the Henbury loop, it would seem the loop is being held back by the need to maintain the relatively underused extremity of the existing branch line.


The Severn Beach trains - 11 each way each weekday with the first arriving at BRI at 0641 - provide a useful public service, something not often considered these days. I don't know the passenger loadings, but they have definitely taken cars off the roads, and are heavily used from Avonmouth inwards, especially at peak times. Look at the options - ^3.00 return for a 41 minute ride along one of the most picturesque lines in the country, a ride on the one bus each way daily costing double that, timetabled at 63 minutes, and arriving in town at 0830, or driving the 13 miles in, then paying a tenner a day to a licensed bandit in a car park? They are a bit sporadic in interval - woe betide he who misses the 0751 to work, and has to wait until 0956, but they are much appreciated, and are not just a charity case.

Expanding the service would be expensive. A 2 tph service is just attainable with an extra train set, something which should be achieved by MetroWest Rail phase 1. To make it 3 tph to SVB would need either redoubling of nearly 5 miles of track, or a passing loop and signal at least. Less money could be spent to strengthen capacity from Avonmouth by, say, bringing the junction at Clifton Down back to Montpelier, or the Avonmouth junction back to Sea Mills or Shirehampton. Either would add at least one tph to the capacity, and would involve relocation of points and signals rather than additional.

The Henbury loop is unworkable at present. It will be a brilliant idea eventually, when an extra 5000 homes are built next to the line and the Avonmouth Deep Sea Container Terminal is built, providing work for a lot of those people. But it will also provide some 40 goods trains daily pulling slowly up the hill to Filton, so capacity will not be easy to come by, especially given the single tracked junction. Maybe when it has been wired to 25kV AC, as is apparently an aspiration, the locos will be more powerful and the goods traffic faster, but until then, only a third line would solve the problem. ^200 million should be enough to widen cuttings, embankments, bridges and the like, and maybe have a right-turn towards SVB.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: chuffed on September 09, 2015, 07:44:02
Thank you FT,N for making sense....yet again.... of a complicated issue. You have a wonderful capacity ( no pun intended !) to see the wood for the trees, to cut through obfuscation and spin, and give clear explanantions. So what are you doing in the Civil Service ??!! ::)


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Bmblbzzz on September 09, 2015, 11:48:09
Expanding the service would be expensive. A 2 tph service is just attainable with an extra train set, something which should be achieved by MetroWest Rail phase 1. To make it 3 tph to SVB would need either redoubling of nearly 5 miles of track, or a passing loop and signal at least. Less money could be spent to strengthen capacity from Avonmouth by, say, bringing the junction at Clifton Down back to Montpelier, or the Avonmouth junction back to Sea Mills or Shirehampton. Either would add at least one tph to the capacity, and would involve relocation of points and signals rather than additional.
What does "bringing the junction back" mean? Extending the short section of double track or moving both start and end points, shifting the whole thing along? Or neither of those? Ta!

Also, when we're told the problem with Henbury Loop is capacity in the docks, does that mean just the section running past the docks, including St Andrew's Rd station and the sidings on the other side as well as the docks lines, or does it refer to the entire track from the docks to four-way junction at Filton?


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: JayMac on September 09, 2015, 11:58:07
Capacity isn't an issue at the moment. It may be in the future with the Bristol Port Company's speculative punt on the building of a deep sea container port at Avonmouth. That would obviously vastly increase the number of freight trains using the line through Henbury. BPC are quite strongly opposed to a Henbury loop passenger service.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: grahame on September 09, 2015, 12:59:53
Capacity isn't an issue at the moment. It may be in the future with the Bristol Port Company's speculative punt on the building of a deep sea container port at Avonmouth. That would obviously vastly increase the number of freight trains using the line through Henbury. BPC are quite strongly opposed to a Henbury loop passenger service.

I have come across examples where capacity / paths for passenger trains which could be run on a relatively short timescale are denied because of future or very occasional other use. Happens with passenger v passenger too. Like it or not, there is a degree of competition for scarse resources - be those train or path resources - between groups and organisations all of which should be working together and all of whom really want to see the same thing in general terms - best use of rail rather than lots on the road in lorries / private cars.

I think enough time has passed / enough water under the bridge for me to quote a couple of examples - they're both from 10 years ago and suggestions made just as I got involved with this stuff.  The scenario was that the SRA (Strategic Rail Authority) wanted to squeeze costs by reducing rolling stock in the South West, and were asking what services should be run.

When I asked about consultation inputs on the TransWilts (I only got involved after the closing date), I and my friends who had been involved were told "there weren't many inputs supporting the services, and the view they should be kept was not unanimous" ... and on chasing that through, we leaned of input(s) from Frome election / council candidates suggesting that the TransWilts train be pulled, in order to provide an improved service for Frome.   And for years as we campaigned it was "but your view isn't shared by everyone".

And, I ashamed to say, the boot was on the other foot too. A consultation in from "our" end suggested keeping the TransWilts service running instead of / at the expense of local trains between Newton Abbott and Plymouth.  Not my input, but to this day I'm a bit embarrassed about the suggestion made - as it turned out, I don't think it did any harm; who's to tell whether the Frome suggestion was the final nail in our coffin at that point - but "water under the bridge" and I'm delighted to see the TransWilts unit extended to Frome to fill a gap during the day which is the positive approach we really should be taking.

Those are old stories but we want to be very careful not to repeat them.  I went to bus consultations run by Wiltshire Council in July, and the question was asked "if we cut subsidy and remove services - which should go. Should it be town services which people could walk, country services that carry few passengers, or evening and weekend services which are for leisure users".  Grouping people on table, over 4 nights, I'm afraid they got groups to support each of the three types of cut.  I hope that doesn't come back to bite us.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: TonyK on September 09, 2015, 20:32:51
Thank you FT,N for making sense....yet again.... of a complicated issue. You have a wonderful capacity ( no pun intended !) to see the wood for the trees, to cut through obfuscation and spin, and give clear explanations. So what are you doing in the Civil Service ??!! ::)

Thanks chuffed. There are two answers two your question as to what I am doing in the Civil Service. The first is serving our longest ever reigning monarch by giving clear and unambiguous explanations to those of her subjects who need the rules, and the possible consequences of transgression,  explaining. The second is that they won't make me repugnant.

I didn't explain my thought of "bringing the junction back" properly. I meant extending the length of double track. In the case of Clifton, this would mean re-doubling the line to Montpelier - or even to Narroways Junction if the cash could be found. Redoubling 1^ miles of track, given the turnback at Clifton, would add hugely to the capacity of the busiest stretch of line, and as an aside give Redland and Montpelier their second platforms back. My apologies for the obfuscation and unclear explanation.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Bmblbzzz on September 10, 2015, 10:44:26
All clear now, thanks. A second platform at Redland would be useful occasionally!


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 10, 2015, 14:39:14
I sometimes dream of (electric) trains passing at a two-platform Montpelier... but given that NR is now properly nationalised, and that rail investment is therefore subject to that death by 1000 cuts that comes of being an 'unprotected' department and a political football to boot ( :) ), I can almost certainly dream on...

...to the next part of the dream, which  involves ascending in a lift from Cheltenham Road to a new station called, er, 'Cheltenham Road' (CER?) - a spiffy new replacement for Montpelier and Redland, just to the east of the Arches. Maybe if I vote Scottish Nationalist next time?


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: ellendune on September 10, 2015, 18:44:37
Maybe if I vote Scottish Nationalist next time?
Would that be facilitated by:

a) you moving to Scotland; or
b) a Scottish Annexation of England?


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 10, 2015, 18:52:46
Maybe if I vote Scottish Nationalist next time?
Would that be facilitated by:

a) you moving to Scotland; or
b) a Scottish Annexation of England?

Well I suppose it'll have to be (b) - I have an unbalanced relationship with midges; they really like me but I really hate them.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 30, 2015, 14:21:23
Travelwest (?) are asking for consultation on the site of a new Henbury station. Two options.
http://travelwest.info/project/henbury-station

Strikes me the east option is more of a Brentry station than Henbury, but I'm not that familiar with the area.

From the linked pdf:
http://travelwest.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Henbury-leaflet.pdf
Quote
WEST option: Pedestrian access would be via the new access
road only.
Quote
EAST option: Pedestrian access would be via the new access road,
plus potentially, an additional pedestrian link to the
A4018.
Which sounds disappointingly like pedestrian access will only be from the north, ie from the new development on the site of Filton airfield, whichever option is chosen. So perhaps it's really a Cribbs Causeway station?

Would it really have been so difficult to put a footbridge over the tracks connecting to the existing housing in Filton/Southmead/Henbury/Brentry?


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: grahame on November 30, 2015, 14:42:57
Travelwest (?)

http://travelwest.info/pages/us

Quote
Travelwest is the one-stop website for travel information in the West of England, however you like to travel.

We want to provide you with all the information you need in the simplest way ^ to help make your life easier, healthier and save you money by encouraging you to grab your bike, your trainers or to catch the bus.

We also want to keep you informed about initiatives implemented across the West of England to promote sustainable travel relating to public transport, walking, cycling, car sharing and electric vehicles as well as providing useful resources for schools, businesses and developers.

Travelwest is funded via the Local Sustainable Transport Fund provided by the DfT (Department for Transport), covering the four Local Authorities comprising the West of England, Bristol, South Gloucestershire, Bath & North East Somerset and North Somerset.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: TonyK on November 30, 2015, 19:23:45
Tricky one. Choose the western position, you please Henbury and some of L Dub, but have the 5000 new complainers having to schlep across the main road. Choose the eastern, and the reverse happens. You can please some of the people some of the time. I'm not sure which I would go for.

The promise of a siding with a bus shelter hardly sets the pulse racing.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: JayMac on November 30, 2015, 19:38:28
Both. A bit further apart.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 30, 2015, 19:46:05
...5000 new complainers having to schlep across the main road...

They could use one of those level crossing arrangements - you know, the ones that allow pedestrians to cross major roads in perfect safety...


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: stuving on November 30, 2015, 20:35:12
Would it really have been so difficult to put a footbridge over the tracks connecting to the existing housing in Filton/Southmead/Henbury/Brentry?

That would save a short detour, relative to the old station - which had no bridge, but a shorter path up to the road each side. The same was true of the other stations on the line, though Charlton (removed long before its eponymous village) does have an aqueduct.

If you want to look at that, and the evolution of this line and its neighbours, it is a good showcase for the the array of old OS maps that the National Library of Scotland have put on line. If you've not come across these yet, this link (http://maps.nls.uk/geo/find/index.cfm#zoom=15&lat=51.5155&lon=-2.6262&layers=64&point=-2.6262,51.5141) should go straight to Henbury. The "25 inch" ones are particularly cute - they are the ones that show a railway track as two rails at scale.

A couple of hints - if you dive in via Googling "NLS maps", you land on a catalogue without images. There's an identical-looking one with images; look for a link to it in the words. And if you select "Scotland, Ordnance Survey Maps" it will show England too - but not the full range of maps. You need to choose "England and Wales, Ordnance Survey" for some reason.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 30, 2015, 21:26:56
Know Your Place (http://maps.bristol.gov.uk/kyp/) is also interesting as a more local source. It doesn't have the same range of maps but it does have some fairly old ones (far older than railways).


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: TonyK on November 30, 2015, 22:13:39
Both. A bit further apart.

An ideal solution, but not under diesel power. This could be Bristol's prototype tram-train route. The Sheffield ones (first one just been delivered) are dual voltage, so the line could be electrified to 25KV AC to please ElectricTrain (and me). With the blank canvas of the airfield, which I hate to see, a spur could be taken off at the level crossing behind what was Apron F to the Mall. Houses could be built around that instead of one of the many streets that may be found there shortly, with esoteric names like Concorde Close, Trubshaw Meadows, Brabazon Breach, and PA28-150 Place. (OK, the last one doesn't sound right, but my first solo should be commemorated).

In the way I suggest, the vehicles could act as trams around the houses. There could be a Cribbs terminal, a stop at the northern end of the airfield, round about where the Automatic Direction Finder kit was situated, another at the junction just before the level crossing, and maybe at Filton North Platform. Alternate trams could continue along to Avonmouth, stopping at roughly the old Henbury station, maybe even in Hallen, should the possibility of development be found there. All of these, after passing Filton North inbound to Bristol could take advantage of a Four Track, Now! line to Temple Meads, stopping with the briefest of dwell times at Abbey Wood, a new Horfield station by Constable Road, Ashley Down, Stapleton Road - a resurgent station since the SVB services were augmented and the WSM to BPW services introduced - Lawrence Hill, then Temple Meads. From there, a circuit via the Centre, Cabot Circus, and Old Market back to the rail hub would provide direct travel from any A to any B that most commuters may want to take. Unless it was priced prohibitively, it would suffer overcrowding from Day One.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 30, 2015, 22:23:19
I agree with almost all of that latest very erudite post - except that I rather thought we wanted that station to be renamed 'Filton', rather than have it possibly confused with the other 'Abbey Wood'?  ::)


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Bmblbzzz on November 30, 2015, 22:31:06
Filton North and Ashley Down stations are to be built anyway. I read it in the local media, so it must be true.
Quote
New stations are also due to open in North Filton and Ashley Down Road, as well as Portishead and Pill by 2021.
http://www.bristol247.com/channel/news-comment/daily/transport/two-station-options-in-henbury-consultation


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: grahame on November 30, 2015, 22:33:00
I agree with almost all of that latest very erudite post - except that I rather thought we wanted that station to be renamed 'Filton', rather than have it possibly confused with the other 'Abbey Wood'?  ::)

I think the name "Filton Abbey Wood" was applied to avoid confusion with Filton Junction - a.k.a. Filton - which closed 2 days before Filton Abbey Wood opened.

ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filton_Abbey_Wood_railway_station

After around 20 years, I suspect the current station could be renamed. If there's a Filton North to be built too - Filton Busless to emphasise that not one bus connects up to the station there, even though many pass on the main road?


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Red Squirrel on November 30, 2015, 22:42:51
I agree with almost all of that latest very erudite post - except that I rather thought we wanted that station to be renamed 'Filton', rather than have it possibly confused with the other 'Abbey Wood'?  ::)

I think the name "Filton Abbey Wood" was applied to avoid confusion with Filton Junction - a.k.a. Filton - which closed 2 days before Filton Abbey Wood opened.

ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filton_Abbey_Wood_railway_station

After around 20 years, I suspect the current station could be renamed. If there's a Filton North to be built too - Filton Busless to emphasise that not one bus connects up to the station there, even though many pass on the main road?

I caught the last train from Parson St to North Filton Platform. Just sayin'. 8)


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: TonyK on December 02, 2015, 23:07:38
I agree with almost all of that latest very erudite post - except that I rather thought we wanted that station to be renamed 'Filton', rather than have it possibly confused with the other 'Abbey Wood'?  ::)

Pah! Away to the Pedants' thread with you, and collect your coat on the way!

Actually, you have a point...


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: grahame on January 29, 2018, 11:52:47
From The Bristol Post (https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/north-bristol-new-rail-station-1128417)

Quote
North Bristol to get new rail station as part of Henbury line reopening

The station will cost up to £10million and will be open by May 2021

Residents in north Bristol are set to get a brand new train station as part of the reopening of the Henbury spur.

The new station – which will cost between £9million and £10million – will be built at a site just east of the A4018 in Henbury and is expected to open in May 2021.

The former Henbury station site – referred to as Henbury west – was rejected due to a higher cost and a similar levels of public support for both sites.

The station will form part of the Metro West Phase Two project, which will see a section of line between Bristol Parkway and Henbury reopen and an increase in the number of services on the Yate corridor.

Nicknamed the ‘Henbury spur’ campaigners originally wanted the line to be fully reopened and link with the current Severn Beach track to reinstate the former ‘Henbury loop’.

While this was not agreed under the original MetroWest programme, talk of building the Bristol Arena on Filton Airfield has given new hope to the 'loop' campaign.

New platforms will also be built at North Filton and Ashley Down as part of the project.

Details of the location of the new station are contained within the latest West of England Joint Committee papers and the recommendation for Henbury east is expected to be waived through at the next meeting on Friday, February 2.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: TonyK on February 05, 2018, 23:42:37
My punt for the sweepstake:
December 2022, costing £24 million.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Red Squirrel on February 06, 2018, 11:29:05
I'm not volunteering, but it would be interesting to get a ratio of number of times announced : number of pounds spent, and compare this to other spheres of activity.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: metalrail on April 27, 2018, 15:44:37
Has the decision actually been made now re Henbury loop vs Henbury spur, or is it still under consultation does anyone know?

Every time i've tried to find out what the final decision on it was I come up with something along the lines of 'a spur service was agreed but this was rejected and sent back to parliament for reconsideration', and the latest Metrowest phase 2 plans i've found highlighting it as a spur service are dated November 2015 (there may obviously be more updated ones out there)

Obviously things have moved on now as the Filton Bank four tracking is heading for completion this year which was a precursor to this being able to happen, and is great, along with passive provision for the new Ashley Hill station which was part of the phase 2 Henbury plans.  Also the site of the new Henbury station has also now been confirmed

I know there's pros and cons with both options, mainly the BP freight service plus the idea of SVB being left as a branch line if it runs as a loop.  People must be literally kicking themselves for pulling up that last mile of track between SVB and PIL years ago, as then we'd still have a full loop via PWY too!   SVB would no longer be a branch, AVN could run either round the Henbury loop or to PIL and onto PWY / BPW / YAE or back down Filton Bank to BRI.  Just 1 mile of track lost (and then built over with the new M49 link) stopped what would have been an amazingly flexible service  :'(

But would be so great to be able to access AVN & CFN from BPW / YAE which won't be possible with the spur option, neither will access to AVN / CFN etc for all the new homes built on the old Filton airfield who will only be able to travel eastwards, travel down Filton Bank and change to a Northbound SVB service - hardly likely to get anyone out of their cars!

At least if the spur option is the one that's been agreed for now, then there's the semi silver lining that at least the line west of Henbury is still in tact double track and will remain connected to AVN, so there's still a possibility to extend in the future 


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: TonyK on April 27, 2018, 22:25:49
I wouldn't go so far as to say a decision has been made, at least not in the traditional sense of the inevitable next step being the reopening of the line. The latest announcement of a resurgent Henbury seemed to me to be a reaction to the latest estimate for the cost of rebuilding the line to Portishead. Almost "Good grief, we can't afford that! But we must do something."


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: metalrail on April 28, 2018, 09:55:52
Haha...  wondered if that was the reason the response was being kept so ambiguous!   ;)


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: martyjon on April 28, 2018, 10:50:34
West of England Mayor hosts Heathrow Airport visit.

https://www.westofengland-ca.gov.uk/west-england-mayor-hosts-heathrow-airport-visit/


WTF


I thought the idea of having a Metro Mayor was to get the area moving, not to promote and build production facilities for other areas to use to get themselves moving and then when they've done p*** off. Henbury Loop, tongue in cheek, Portishead re-opening, MetroWest ought to be the Metro Mayors priorities NOT THIS.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: metalrail on April 28, 2018, 10:59:04
Quote
The two sites being considered are well-connected by road and freight links, as well as Bristol Port

...for access from outside Bristol perhaps, but that's completely missing the point for those of us who actually live here and struggle daily with our LACK of well-connected railway links and ever more congested roads!   >:(


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Western Pathfinder on April 28, 2018, 15:24:33
West of England Mayor hosts Heathrow Airport visit.

https://www.westofengland-ca.gov.uk/west-england-mayor-hosts-heathrow-airport-visit/


WTF


I thought the idea of having a Metro Mayor was to get the area moving, not to promote and build production facilities for other areas to use to get themselves moving and then when they've done p*** off. Henbury Loop, tongue in cheek, Portishead re-opening, MetroWest ought to be the Metro Mayors priorities NOT THIS.

Might not be so much of a nightmayor any attempt to bring more employment to the area can only be beneficial to the campaign for the new stations at Aztec West and of course Pilning.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: JC on April 30, 2018, 12:04:55
An enhanced solution to Bristol's congestion problems can be achieved with a "3 loop solution".
Please refer attached.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: martyjon on April 30, 2018, 16:42:32
The only solution to Bristol's congestion problems is a congestion charge with the main arterial roads into the city's central area made clearways.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: JayMac on April 30, 2018, 18:16:51
With said congestion charge used to fund a tram network.


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: grahame on April 30, 2018, 19:51:10
An enhanced solution to Bristol's congestion problems can be achieved with a "3 loop solution".
Please refer attached.

Welcome to the forum, JC - an interesting idea.   Did you have light rail or heavy rail in mind, or a mixture.  At first glance some heavy engineering around Clifton Down, but not being too familiar with the area, you may be able to tell me otherwise?


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: metalrail on April 30, 2018, 19:52:19
The only solution to Bristol's congestion problems is a congestion charge with the main arterial roads into the city's central area made clearways.

It's a chicken and egg situation tho...

You can't start imposing a congestion charge unless there's both a viable and reliable public transport option in place to take those drivers off the road first

Was a completely different situation in London where it's been introduced...  they have not just the tube and London Overground, but probably the most comprehensive bus service in the country.  When I moved to London myself for a while, owning a car wasn't even a consideration as it made no sense vs the public transport options

Moving back to Bristol it soon became apparent that not just to commute every day for me but to get pretty much anywhere i'd need a car


Title: Re: Henbury Loop Train Service
Post by: Red Squirrel on May 01, 2018, 15:55:38
An enhanced solution to Bristol's congestion problems can be achieved with a "3 loop solution".
Please refer attached.

I like it! Looks like a bedraggled spider wiv a big maaf! Which is how I feel a lot of the time.



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