Great Western Coffee Shop

Just read this  on page 18 of the November 2010, issue 107 of ''Todays Railways'' (UK edition)

the 17:06 London Paddington - Westbury will be diverted and run via the Westbury avoiding line serving Trowbridge & Bradford on avon before Bath & Bristol, it seems like it will still serve most stations along the Berk & Hants just not Westbury it seems.

There is even a article on the HST special via Avonmouth & Portbury

Wonder what train will form the 1917 stopper hst from westbury back to London! Not unless they cut that or start it later and from the Frome hst set which would normally run in service to westbury and then empty to bristol.

That is interesting.  Will this be a Monday-Friday and/or weekend service?

There was such scheduled services, albeit temporarily on one Saturday just a couple of years back.

1218 London Paddington-Bristol Temple Meads. Calling Slough, Reading, Theale, Thatcham, Newbury, Hungerford, Pewsey, Westbury, Bath Spa, and Bristol Temple Meads. Arrival time Bristol 1456.

1535 Bristol Temple Meads-London Paddington. Calling Bath Spa, Westbury, Pewsey, Bedwyn, Hungerford, Newbury, Thatcham, Theale, Reading, Slouth, and London Paddington. Arrival time London 1807.

Was that during engineering works or something as that appears to be very near if not exactly the same path and calling patterns as the 1C83 1218 PAD to TAU and 1J99 1523 TAU to PAD. Although 1J99 is a bit later, although this was changed very recently.

Current Modern Railways describes the new [weekday] 'peak return' service for Bradford and Trowbridge as follows:

'The current 0608 from Westbury will start back from Bristol TM (time not given), while the 1706 from London will be extended to Bristol. The evening service will miss out the Westbury call using the little used Westbury East Loop Junction to Hawkeridge Junction curve to avoid the station '

Paul

I'd always thought that the "Westbury avoiding line" was that between Heywood Road Junction and Fairwood Junction ie the line used by Padd - West of England trains not calling at Westbury, which of course is many HST's each day.  It is the line between Westbury East Loop Junction and Hawkeridge Junction that will be seeing the new HST service.

As ever I stand to be corrected .....

No you are quite right, I left the detail out of my post for brevity only because I thought it was implied by the overall route.
Now amended.

Paul

My point was addressed more to Anthony215's original post: I take To-day's Railways and the item on page 18 of the November edition makes no mention of "the Westbury avoiding line".  It in fact states "The 1706 Paddington-Westbury will divert to Bristol and run via B&H, Heywood Road Jn-Hawkeridge Jn and then serve Trwobridge...".

Maybe Anthony saw an ealier version which was later edited/corrected?

My version of Simsig (a great signalling simulation game) for Westbury includes a Timetable for Summer 2002, which I think is suppoosed to be based on the real thing.  It shows a weekday train 1C09, timed:

Southcote Junction  0805  (so presumably about 0730 ex Padd)
Newbury                0828
Heywood Rd J.        0854
Hawkeridge J          0857/0900
Bathampton J         0920

Does anyone know if this train really existed? 

Indeed, this line is actually known as "Westbury East Loop" or WYL.

1706 London Paddington-Bristol Temple Meads.  Calling Twyford, Reading, Theale, Thatcham, Newbury, Kintbury, Hungerford, Bedwyn, Pewsey, Trowbridge, Bradford On Avon, Bath Spa, BRISTOL TEMPLE MEADS.  Arrive Bristol 1941.

And the morning service...

0520 Bristol Temple Meads-London Paddington.  Calling Bradford On Avon, Trowbridge, Westbury, Pewsey, Hungerford, Newbury, Thatcham, Theale, Reading, LONDON PADDINGTON.   Arrive London 0753.

These two services will be on my "to do" list of FGW London-Bristol services(and vice versa) which are a pleasant interesting change from the norm.

Can't really see what the fares for these services will be like yet though.  The 0520 service from Bristol should have advance fares for ^22 or less I would have thought.   But will the 1706 from London-Bristol have reasonably priced fares on offer, bearing in mind the journey time is a lot longer?

Why would they have reasonably priced advance fares. They are simply the Berks & Hants commuter services starting from Bristol instead of Westbury. Both of which are fairly busy trains.

I did post a sensible response to this explaining why I believe the services could have ^24.50(or even a little cheaper) advance fares available.  But for some mysterious reason, my post was deleted without any explanation.

We will just have to see what the prices are I guess.

EDIT: I've just received a polite message from one of the mods informing me my message was mistakenly deleted and for me to make the post again if I wish.  I will do that tomorrow,...well later today as it's Sunday now!

I think a public apology is in order. It was me that accidentally deleted XPT's post.  :-[ ::)

Sorry XPT.

No problem Bignosemac.

I'll make the posting again, albeit a little shorter than my original posting.



Advance fares on the 0447 service from Bristol-London are available at ^10 single.  For the 0530 and 0600 services, ^22 advance fares are available.  For the current 0608 service from Westbury-London, ^24.50 advance single fares are available.  So I think on that basis, advance single fares on the 0520 from Bristol-London should be available at ^24.50, or ^22 or a little less likely cheaper still.

For the return journey on the 1706 service.  Advance single fares to Bristol on the 1700 and 1730 services are available at ^24.50.  And currently ^22 advance singles are available on the 1706 service to Westbury. So I would think that ^24.50 or ^22 single fares should be available on the 1706 service for those travelling to Bristol, when it commences on May 23rd.

I hope there is an HST replacement for the 19:17 from Westbury if indeed it no longer runs.   I have a customer in Kintbury and it's my train home after a pint and a meal in the Dundas Arms!  (so much better than a three car from Bedwyn!).

Oh dear more track to bash and I still haven't got Foxhall, the Yeovil link and now they've added the Westbury East Loop.

Update to my post regarding fares between Bristol and London on these services, the 0520 Bristol Temple Meads-London Paddington and the 1706 London Paddington-Bristol Temple Meads.

Advance single fares for May 23rd when these services commences are now available to purchase.

Dissapointly and surprisingly(to me), the cheapest advance single fare on the 0520 Bristol-London is ^33.50.  However, the good news is that the advance single fare on the 1706 London-Bristol is just ^10!! Even cheaper than I predicted! BRILLIANT!  And for those people travelling to Trowbridge on this service, the cheapest advance single fare is just ^9.50!  Yet interesting the single fare to Newbury on this service is ^20.40.

I did have a feeling that there might well be bargain advance fares available on one of those two services at least, because of the much longer journey time between Bristol and London.  ^10 single for a peak time departure from London is great news.  Well done First Great Western, if you are reading this.

I'll have to make a booking on these two services soon.

Not really - it's to be expected seeing as though Pad - Newbury doesn't have advance tickets.

I see that Twyford to Bristol TM on this train has an advance fare of only ^7.50, I might have to try that some time this summer!  :)

Fare metrics will (are) be very interesting on this one, bearing in mind that SWT also offer direct London services from Bradford-on-Avon and Trowbridge ... longer journey, different times of day, different London destination, of course.

Am booked for the inaugural service for the 1706 London Paddington-Bristol Temple Meads.  Looking forward to it.  And got to be said again, great that the fare is only ^10 single for a peak time departure from London.  None of these ridiculous fares such as ^84.50, ^46.50 etc, and hence having to wait till gone 7pm to depart London at a more reasonable price.  So if you want to get to Bristol at around 5pm get the 1706 service for just ^10!  

 Just one thing though, this is a FGW service but why is this service not showing up on FGW's journey planner?  I had to book through the East Coast journey planner instead.  EDIT: It does show up on FGW's journey planner, but ONLY if you click on the "check for slower services" link.

Presumably because it takes such a long time going all round the houses that it's quicker to take a different train from Paddington. It's a geographically longer route than via Swindon and once you've called Twyford, Reading, Theale, Thatcham, Newbury, Kintbury, Hungerford, Bedwyn, Pewsey, Trowbridge, Bradford On Avon and Bath Spa must be an achingly low average speed - btw, XPT, weren't you complaining about all the stops that a normal HST makes between Paddington and Bristol...?!

I assume this routing is intended to keep staff route knowledge current, or is it effectively an HST service to Pewsey running back to the Marsh but still in service? Either way, although it might be nice for the cranks who like to try out esoteric routes, I sincerely doubt that any customers who aren't enthusiasts will actually want to use that service all the way through. For that reason I really don't see much of a problem with it not popping up on the journey planner.

Some customers may be tempted to use the 1706 if they are aware of split ticketing. Take a GWML Bristol service around that time and you pay ^84.50 Anytime Single.

Take the 1706, split your ticket at Newbury and pay ^40.40.

A forty quid saving for an extra 49 minutes journey time. Could tempt some.

Regarding the prices of the other normal London-Bristol services at peak times, ^84.50 single or ^169 Anytime Return really are crazy prices. I can understand why they're charged as such to deter day-trippers and casual travellers from travelling on these services so that season ticket commuters get seats. But I do wonder just how many of joe public passengers actually fork out and pay these sort of crazy prices for travel on peak time services to/from London?   I would think many would either get a National Express coach instead for a much more affordable fare, or travel on earlier or later services (if convenient) at a more reasonable price rather than pay those prices. I think unless these people have got absolutely pots of money to throw around, then they must be absolutely crackers to pay out such ridiculous fares as these.

For a peak time departure from London, the ^10 single for the 1706 service to Bristol is a bargain even though the journey is approx 50 minutes longer than the normal regular services.  Just sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride.  And be happy at the money you've saved by travelling on this particular service!

It will be interesting to see how many London-Bristol passengers travel on this new service.

Yes bignosemac, I was commenting about all the stops on the regular HST services between London-Bristol in that they should re-introduce at least some regular scheduled express/limited stop services between the two cities.  But I also like services which are a change from the norm like for instance those additional services via Newbury over the past two weekends.  The new 1706 service has loads of stops enroute and a much longer journey time, but it will be a change from the "same old same old" normal services.  :)

'Tweren't me.  ;) ;D

Ah yes sorry, I meant Inspector Blakey.

Well I travelled on the inaugural service of the 1706 from London on Monday.  Was a little surprised to see it listed on the departure boards and on the pre-recorded announcements as terminating at BRADFORD-ON-AVON.  I can sort of understand this tactic to some degree to prevent any confusion to passengers wanting the normal fast(well fast-ish anyway) services to Bristol Temple Meads.  But it may well also cause some confusion to passengers who are booked on this service to Bath and Bristol.  I knew that the service was really terminating at Bristol, so I boarded.  Though the PA announcement from the conductor on the train said "this is the 1706 service to Bristol Temple Meads.".  

Anyway nice journey along the alternate and more scenic route via Hungergord.  The train was very busy at first.  The vast majority of passengers were for all station stops through to Hungerford.  When the train arrived at Trowbridge and Bradford-on-Avon I could see several people getting off the train, not sure how many in total actually got off at these stations as I was near the front of the train.  Likewise with the stop at Bath I could see several people disembarking from the carriage I was in and the adjoining carriage, couldn't see fore sure how many people did get off though.  The train arrived into Bristol Temple Meads some 5 minutes early at 1936.  Once I got off the train I could see about 25 to 30 people disembarking too, of which the vast majority of these passengers would have got on at Bath Spa, plus several or so people from Bradford-on-Avon and Trowbridge.   How many people actually travelled all the way from London-Bristol on this service would probably have been no more than several people.   It is not out of the question that it could well have been only ME who travelled for the full duration of this service!

Would I travel on this service again?  Of course I would, if I wanted to travel back from London on a weekday around 5pm-ish.  Much longer journey than the normal services, but for ^10 single it's a great value fare for a peak time weekday service.  None of this ^84.50, ^57.50 or whatever nonsence.

Just for the record, the screen does have a scrolling message below the calling points saying continues to Bristol TM.

Just been reading Barry Doe's timetable review in Rail issue 671. This new train is only partially included in the new Network Rail printed timetable. The calls at Trowbridge and Bradford on Avon are not shown in Timetable 123 or as a footnote in 135.

Indeed reading the whole article it seems the whole publication is riddled with errors. I wonder if any of the errors highlighted will be changed in the on line downloadable timetables. From what Mr Doe says it seems unlikely!!

Travelled on this from B-o-A this morning ...

05:44 Bradford-on-Avon to Paddington ... very quiet on arrival @ B-0-A
+ 4 passengers B-o-A;  + 3 passengers Trowbridge. 
By the time we left Reading, we were "nearly every seat taken".

I'm delighted to see this train running in passenger service from BOA and TRO even though the numbers on this very new service are initially not very high.  It's not just a question of selling seats from B-o-A to Westbury; if it wasn't for this service I would have driven much further in, perhaps leaving an empty seat generating no revenue all the way to Paddington.



Can't recall it happening to me before (but the Reading is not on a regular route if mine) ... our London-bound HST called at Platform 4 / normally the main westbound platform.   Notes that the next train from there was a Bristol, that was waiting outside as we left.

I have experienced it before with trains off the Berks & Hants routed into Platform 4. I think it happens when Platform 5 and 8 are busy. (usually a XC changing ends on 8). It seems to be quicker all round to use 4 and thus prevent the B&H service waiting for a gap to crossover to reach either 5 or 8.

I was going to ask if anyone knew if many passengers travelling to Bath and Bristol were using the 1706 service by now, given the low ^10 advance single fares available.  However I would guess still not many atall now, as it seems those bargain fares on this service have now sadly been scrapped.  I was looking at returning from London around 5pm on a weekday in October but the fare is ^33.50 on the 1706 service. And of course more expensive still on the other "normal" services.  Beyond the prices I'm willing to pay for a journey of this distance.  Oh well, guess it will have to be National Express coach then(for just ^5.50!)

A shame those bargain ^10 advance fares on this service have been scrapped. I wonder why?

You're right, it's absolutely scandalous that ridiculously cheap ^10.00 advance fares aren't available on a train leaving Paddington at the height of the rush-hour on a weekday. Whatever next? I really don't see how you can complain about a fare of ^33.50 for a journey of that length right in the middle of the peak being unreasonable, because it seems like extremely good value to me.

I suspect you're looking at this inside-out and the cheap fares may not be available because it's perfectly possible for FGW to fill the train with people paying for more expensive tickets. Why would you want to cause overcrowding if it's already busy?

Noooo! I never said it's absolutely scandalous that ^10 advance single London-Bristol fares aren't available on peak time rush hour services. It was a very pleasant surprise(though I did think there was a slim chance such fares would be available anyway) that these bargain fares were originally available on the 1706 service when it was introduced back in late May.  It was good whilst it lasted anyway, and I did wonder how long they would retain these ^10 fares on this service.  I was going to email FGW to thank them for such excellent priced fares to be available on a peak time service, but never got round to it.  I'm not really complaining that those fares have been scrapped, but saying simply that it is a shame they have been scrapped. 

Yes I can understand the reasons why train fares are much more expensive at peak times.  But I would personally disagree that ^33.50 for a London-Bristol single is extremely good value, even at peak time.  And many people would also to be honest. When I plan any journeys I have my limits as to how much I'm prepared for train fares in relation to the distance involved.  If I decide it is too expensive I make alternate arrangements.  In this case I need to travel London-Bristol around 5pm on a weekday.  Train is too expensive, so I'll happily settle and get National Express coach for just ^5.50. There is no competition there, a saving of ^28.  It's either that or have the inconveniece of hanging around waiting till 7:30pm for a ^22 single fare, or till 8pm for a ^12.50 single fare.  Coach it is, absolutely no competition.  Incidentally the most I would be prepared to pay for a London-Bristol single would be around ^22.

There are some people who  think absolutely nothing of paying say ^78 or even considerably more(i.e. ^174.50!!!) for a Bristol-London return train fare and even consider these fares to be good value! But to other people such fares will be deemed as just far too expensive, and they will look at travelling by alternative means instead. Either they can't afford such fares, or they are sensible with their money and wouldn't want to blow so much money on train fares where it would be much better spent put towards something else instead, i.e. a holiday.

This isn't complaining about the peak time train fares.  But merely pointing out that there are people like myself who are only prepared to pay so much for train journeys at times convenient to when they wish to travel. If affordable reasonably priced fares are not available, then they will seek alternative methods of making those journeys.

My first question to myself (even though I don't drive) is "How much would it cost to drive it? I doubt you could drive it for that amount in fuel in most cars, then you have wear & tear & possibly parking/congestion charge.

I think ^33.50 is reasonable. I don't think ^174.50 is though, that's just stupid.

I noticed a while ago when searching for this service again, that it no longer runs.  When and why was this service axed out of interest?

It fell foul of one of the rules of the railway.

When it was introduced it was an "experiment" as the only regular passenger service using the track between Westbury East Loop Junction and Hawkeridge Junction.  If the service continued over five years it would become classed as a regular service and if, subsequently, the service was withdrawn the full closure process involving public notices and statutory approval would have to have been gone through.  Therefore it was withdrawn in May 2016.

This does not preclude trains using the route for diversionary purposes during engineering work or other times of disruption, it just cannot be a regular timetabled service.

Snap, Bobm ... I was writing too.  I got to ...

It was a "trial" service over the line.  As I understand it, had that service continued any longer it would no longer have been regarded as a trial, and a full closure proposal and enquiry would have been needed if it was to be withdrawn subsequently. Passenger numbers were not high; it had proven to be more of an operating convenience to get an HST that was a peak hour extra out to Bedwyn and Pewsey on to the depot in Bristol than something that was generating significant revenue, and the decision makers decided they didn't want a hostage to fortune as and when timetables were recast when the HSTs were replaced.

That's "why" ... for "when" memory is a funny thing.   I'll see what I can find ...

Thanks for the info as to why it was axed.  A shame as it was a nice service, even though I only ever used it once myself, just on the inaugural day of service and whilst it was priced at the extremely good value price of £10 single.  And even though I moaned about the price rising to £33 shortly after, that was/is still way cheaper than the normal First Great Western/GWR London-Bristol services at that sort of time of day.  And it was a nice alternate journey via Newbury instead of the usual route.

Interestingly though the similar service in the other direction in the mornings - the 0515 Bristol Temple Meads-London Paddington, still survives.  And at what I would call GOOD value at £21 for the cheapest advance single.  I must get a journey on that one one day!

Similar, but not the same; that calls at / reverses at Westbury rather than using the North to East loop.  The evening train - the 17:06 from Paddington - has been extended to Frome - adding Westbury and Frome at the expense of Trowbridge and Bradford-on-Avon. So (with Frome added) no chance of it reversing and making those two extra calls.

The direct service from Paddington to Bristol via Trowbridge was originally introduced as a way to free up a platform at Westbury. Formerly, the train terminated at Westbury before heading to Bristol as empty coaching stock. Unfortunately, this tied up a platform at Westbury during the busy 18:50 to 19:20 period, leading to delays. The train was therefore diverted as an 'experimental' service to run directly to Bristol via the east loop, completely avoiding Westbury.

With the deadline for the 'experimental' service approaching, it was deemed that Westbury generated considerably more traffic for this train than Trowbridge and Bradford on Avon so the train resumed running to Westbury, the volume of traffic to Trowbridge and Bradford on Avon being deemed insufficient to make this service a permanent fixture. Unfortunately, the lesson about having a platform tied up at Westbury at the busy time of day wasn't learnt, so delays started building up again. Finally, it was decided to run the train through to Frome, giving that station an additional through service from London and freeing up a much needed platform at Westbury.

Back in service on Wednesday & Thursday, the 05:18 off Bristol and the 17:07 & 18:07 off Paddington making use of the curve during the Westbury blockade.

Also for a limited number of peak services between Bristol / Bath and Frome / Yeovil / Weymouth which are running without passenger stops from Trowbridge to Frome - reversal on the main line to the east of Heywood Road Junction.