Great Western Coffee Shop

Tavistock back on the Railway Network, not just a Good Idea but essential!

Let's get some campaign up and Running, it's odd that Scotland and Wales have Railway reopenings in place yet England is STILL in the grips of the ROAD LOBBY.

Where are the Guys behind SOS (Save Our Sleeper) they sure gave DfT a bloody nose on that.
Anybody got contact details?

Let's get some campaign up and Running, it's odd that Scotland and Wales have Railway reopenings in place yet England is STILL in the grips of the ROAD LOBBY.

Page 3 of Plymouth City Council's Plymrail strategy contains a section on Tavistock (link below.)
http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/plymrail.pdf

Parry People Movers are known to want to run a Bere Alston-Gunnislake shuttle service in the event of Bere Alston-Tavistock re-opening.

the question in my mind is whether People Movers could operate the whole service, with suitable derogations. With their light weight, it could bring the reinstatement costs down, after all.

Just a thought - I don't know the technical specs of people movers well enough to conclude one way or the other.

Why stop at Tav. What about the through route to Oxhampton?

How stupid was it to shut a section of line which turned a viable through route into two weak, isolated stubs!

Ok, it was a duplicate route, but there was the whole North Devon holiday traffic potential (Bude) that was lost.

Or has it been built on?

Two possible problems are development at Tavistock and issues regarding the Meldon viaduct.

What slightly worries me is that the trackbed including Shillamill Tunnel & Viaduct is currently being sold and appears on the register of surplus public sector land (links below.)
http://www.brb.gov.uk/property/property_listings/index_html?keyword=Shillamill+Tunnel+%26+Viaduct

http://www.englishpartnerships.co.uk/rspsl.htm

I have been unable to find out who the buyer is.

Tavvy REALLY needs it's railway back and we should all get together and form a group to start the ball rolling! Slightly different but bear in mind that the Helston project was started by two 17 year old lads who just went for a walk along the track bed in 2002, and now it's one of the fastest developing preservation projects in the UK! And at least one person on this board (andrewr) was involved in the Helston project from nearly the very start and it was a lot of his influence that is to thank for it's rapid progress! Come on guys, lets get crackin, I'm sure the Tamar Belle heritage group at Bere Ferrers could provide the venue for a meeting?

The BIG thing about going back to TAVISTOCK that everybody seems to be missing is that Bere Alston-Tavistock is a Former DOUBLE TRACK MAIN LINE so bags of room for Both Rail and almost unused Cycle Trail.

Two possible problems are development at Tavistock and issues regarding the Meldon viaduct.

Say all you good people out there, I've been in touch with Andy Roden (Save Our Sleeper HERO).

He's real busy with a Book, but will lend what time he has, so let's not sit on our backsides and do little.

One suggestion was hold a meeting at Bere Ferrers, good Idea any one got contact details?

Let's Have some names of people who would attend a meeting on say a Saturday.

Tavistock MUST happen, as for buildings in the Way, that didn't stop the NET (Nottingham Trams)
and a Cost of ^6m that's loose change to Mr A Darling.

What did the 6 1/2 mile A30 Goss Moor by-pass cost almost ^100m

Andy did suggest an on-line petition any out there with the Brains to start one.

To wet the appetite, Bere Alston-Gunnislake could cause a problem with reopening Tavistock, Two trains serving Tavy and Gunnislake would knock heavy price wise on the Scheme, PPM has been suggested but I would think with the step climbs on the Bere Alston-Gunnislake line PPM isn't man enough.

My Suggestion is Install Overhead Cable and put a Tram on the Bere Alston-Gunnislake section.

There's B***** All wrong with MELDON viaduct, the condition of the Viaduct was used as an EXCUSE to close the Line, same was tired with Ribblehead, and that was only Singled as a token to justify the early closure scam.

Just a couple of points the Stourbridge line is 58 chains long and not as steep or bendy as the Bere Alston-Gunnislake branch which is 4miles 34 chains.
Nope: me thinks a PPM would be out of Puff on the Gunnislake Branch and I've got the IQ of 6000 traffic wardens

Tavistock MUST happen, as for buildings in the Way, that didn't stop the NET (Nottingham Trams)
and a Cost of ^6m that's loose change to Mr A Darling.

There's B***** All wrong with MELDON viaduct, the condition of the Viaduct was used as an EXCUSE to close the Line, same was tired with Ribblehead, and that was only Singled as a token to justify the early closure scam.

the viaduct was structurally stable as it was no longer required to carry rail traffic, and the original cast and wrought iron components were not significantly affected by corrosion.  The relatively recent beams supporting the concrete deck, however, as well as other mild steel strengthening works, were in poor condition.  There were also severe problems with rot in the timber deck.

During the summer of 1996, Carl Bro Group supervised the ^650,000 contract funded by CAMAS Aggregates and British Rail Property Board for the refurbishment of the viaduct.  The works included a new treated softwood deck and handrails (although the original standards remain), repainting, steel work repairs, repairs to the masonry in the abutments, and protection of the piers form scour by the river.  The viaduct will now be incorporated into a footpath and cycle way which gives access to Dartmoor, affording visitors spectacular views of this historic structure.

This is proven by the section from Meldon Quarry to Okehampton where the railway and cycle path already run side by side.

I think the reopening of Tavvy-Okehampton should be put on the back burner, the main thing is to get Bere Alston-Tavvy reopened which would be relatively simple, and at ^10m isn't massive money today, FGW make that in a week!

dewarw, I glad you have put the Beeching 2 map up, I've had arguements in the Past saying that IT was planned to finish the Railway at Exeter St David's with no rails west there of.

If you want to do a petition. Do one on the number 10 website (like I did with the Cotswold Line redoubling campaign).

I do not think that just reopening to Tav. is worth it (ie, I can't see it getting consent). Surely the whole route would be better value for money, in terms of construction/labour costs, amount of traffic generated (North Devon), and the possibility for a "climate change proof" line to the West Country.

Why not stick a 153 on the Guin-Bere line? I always feel that putting a "bus" on a branch is almost signifying its closure (they have given up on it)!

Sorry, a spare 153 should be used in Bristol/Trans Wilts!

NB I fully support the Tav. reopening by the way!!!!!!!!

The line to Tavvy from Bere alston would be the best thing to do as there are no complications with buildings on the line/missing bridges etc, between tavvy and Okehampton there aren't many town's villiages that would generate much traffic, At Tavvy it's self the old station is now offices and the track bed has been built on, the proposed "new" station was earmarked to be built on the edge of the town with a bus link to the town centre as the track bed has been built on near the old station. Also, I doubt a 153 would be adequate, the morning Gunnislake services are usually a 150 full, a town the size of Tavvy with it's dire roads to Plymouth would probably generate a large amount of traffic!

It is interesting to note, however, that the Woodhead route (Sheff. to Manch.) is shown as being kept open.

I suppose this was due to the electrification...

As I understand it, there are signalling issues with PPM vehicles sharing lines with conventional trains, as they would have to running into Plymouth.

Not so much signalling issues, but PPMs require a possession to operate in normal service AFAIK due to their very light weight and the consequences that could occur with whamming into say, a HST...

Tom

I was also told that there could be a problem with PPM's and track circuits.

Good luck with finding a track circuit between Bere Alston and Gunnislake  ???

The line at Bere Alston could be kept totally separate from the Plymouth to Tavistock line as there are in theory three platforms that could be used...

Page 3 of Plymouth City Council's Plymrail strategy contains a section on Tavistock (link below.)
http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/plymrail.pdf

Parry People Movers are known to want to run a Bere Alston-Gunnislake shuttle service in the event of Bere Alston-Tavistock re-opening.

I was also told that there could be a problem with PPM's and track circuits.

Interesting that the media has picked up specifically on the railway issue, given that the planning roadshows mentioned in the article seem to cover a wide range of issues.

It is also worth noting that an alternative Plymouth-Exeter route may need to be found if erosion scuppers the existing route via Dawlish (link below.)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/5099454.stm

What slightly worries me is that the trackbed including Shillamill Tunnel & Viaduct is currently being sold and appears on the register of surplus public sector land (links below.)
http://www.brb.gov.uk/property/property_listings/index_html?keyword=Shillamill+Tunnel+%26+Viaduct

http://www.englishpartnerships.co.uk/rspsl.htm

I have been unable to find out who the buyer is.

Devon County Council have informed me that they are negotiating to buy the trackbed.

Buying it for what? railway or cycleway?

Buying it for what? railway or cycleway?

Hi all,

Well, it looks as if there's a groundswell of support on the forum for a concerted effort on the Tavvy line, so, does anyone fancy a go? As Smokey mentioned a while back, I'm a little tied up writing my next book, but I think we need to get something off the ground sooner rather than later. So, if anyone's got the time and inclination to help do some digging, establish some contacts and write letters, do let me know: you can contact me via my website (www.andrewroden.com).

Lee, thanks ever so much for all the digging you've done already - it looks pretty darned positive from where I'm sitting... all we have to do is establish a rapport with Sustrans, win the confidence of local authorities and communities, generate a business case, get plenty of media coverage, and come up with (or persuade the DEpartment for Transport to do so) around ^10 million: easy!

That doesn't mean we shouldn't give it a bloody good go though - you never know...

Andy

Hi all.  Very interesting board.

Here's the latest on Tavistock.

Looking again at reopening Bere Alston - Tavistock is a key part of the Community Rail pilot project on the Tamar Valley Line.

Devon County Council commissioned consultants to do a study looking at potential passenger demand two years ago.   

In April 2007, Kilbride Community Rail came on the scene.  They are looking to fund rail reopenings through property development.  They have experience doing similar things to provide new freight sidings, but not passenger facilities to date. 

Kilbride Community Rail are very keen on Tavistock and have joined forces with ECT Group (owners of the Dartmoor Railway) to try and progress things.  In the meantime, the Tamar Valley AONB Partnership has obtained finances through their Devon Great Consols programme to create a cycleway along most of the trackbed.

Kilbride are regularly meeting Devon County Council and West Devon Borough Council to discuss next steps.  As mentioned above, Devon County Council is in discussions to buy the remaining trackbed in railway ownership - this includes both Shillamill Tunnel and Viaduct.

As another poster has pointed out, the formation is doubletrack so there should be no problem having the cycleway and reopened railway next to each other.  The AONB completely supports the return of the railway.  Personally, I also think it is essential to get the cycleway into Bere Alston station to encourage tourism visits into the Tamar Valley similar to the Tarka Trail out of Barnstaple.

The latest stage of the process is the public consultation on the West Devon development framework announced this week.  I don't know what the detail is (ie how many houses and where) but the public reaction will be key.

As you can see, Tavistock reopening is looking positive.  I think there will be significant developments this year.


Richard Burningham,
Devon & Cornwall Rail Partnership.


PS - On Tamar Valley matters, we are celebrating the centenary of Bere Alston - Gunnislake this Spring.  More details at www.carfreedaysout.com

Hi all.  Very interesting board.

Here's the latest on Tavistock.

Looking again at reopening Bere Alston - Tavistock is a key part of the Community Rail pilot project on the Tamar Valley Line.

Devon County Council commissioned consultants to do a study looking at potential passenger demand two years ago.   

In April 2007, Kilbride Community Rail came on the scene.  They are looking to fund rail reopenings through property development.  They have experience doing similar things to provide new freight sidings, but not passenger facilities to date. 

Kilbride Community Rail are very keen on Tavistock and have joined forces with ECT Group (owners of the Dartmoor Railway) to try and progress things.  In the meantime, the Tamar Valley AONB Partnership has obtained finances through their Devon Great Consols programme to create a cycleway along most of the trackbed.

Kilbride are regularly meeting Devon County Council and West Devon Borough Council to discuss next steps.  As mentioned above, Devon County Council is in discussions to buy the remaining trackbed in railway ownership - this includes both Shillamill Tunnel and Viaduct.

As another poster has pointed out, the formation is doubletrack so there should be no problem having the cycleway and reopened railway next to each other.  The AONB completely supports the return of the railway.  Personally, I also think it is essential to get the cycleway into Bere Alston station to encourage tourism visits into the Tamar Valley similar to the Tarka Trail out of Barnstaple.

The latest stage of the process is the public consultation on the West Devon development framework announced this week.  I don't know what the detail is (ie how many houses and where) but the public reaction will be key.

As you can see, Tavistock reopening is looking positive.  I think there will be significant developments this year.


Richard Burningham,
Devon & Cornwall Rail Partnership.


PS - On Tamar Valley matters, we are celebrating the centenary of Bere Alston - Gunnislake this Spring.  More details at www.carfreedaysout.com

Forget single track and cycle-way, bring back a double line!

Whats the point? double the costs for not much more real gain, an hourly service from Tavvy to Plymouth would be fine.

If we campaign for too much (reinstatement of Bere Alston to Okehampton) which could cost upwards of ^50m then it wont be taken seriously!!! if we campaign for a branch to Tavvy at ^10m then it may well happen, THEN you start campaigning for the next bit which will then only cost about ^40m. Lets not run before we can walk!

Phase three of the total reopening could be a branch to Launceston! another large town that was criminally axed from the network in the late '60's!

One for our great grandchildren, I think, Vacman!

That would give North Devon (part of) the railway it deserves/needs.

You mean West Devon, surely? (http://www.takeforum.com/forum/images/smiles/th_icon_confused1.gif)

Also posted in Devon section: link to a report to fund Bere Alston-Tavistock reopening entirely with private money.

http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=144143&command=displayContent&sourceNode=144131&contentPK=19748525&moduleName=InternalSearch&formname=sidebarsearch

Interesting!
Does anyone know much about Kilbride Community Rail, and if so, what is there track record in getting these types of schemes off the ground?

Hi all.  Very interesting board.

Here's the latest on Tavistock.

Looking again at reopening Bere Alston - Tavistock is a key part of the Community Rail pilot project on the Tamar Valley Line.

Devon County Council commissioned consultants to do a study looking at potential passenger demand two years ago.   

In April 2007, Kilbride Community Rail came on the scene.  They are looking to fund rail reopenings through property development.  They have experience doing similar things to provide new freight sidings, but not passenger facilities to date. 

Kilbride Community Rail are very keen on Tavistock and have joined forces with ECT Group (owners of the Dartmoor Railway) to try and progress things.  In the meantime, the Tamar Valley AONB Partnership has obtained finances through their Devon Great Consols programme to create a cycleway along most of the trackbed.

Kilbride are regularly meeting Devon County Council and West Devon Borough Council to discuss next steps.  As mentioned above, Devon County Council is in discussions to buy the remaining trackbed in railway ownership - this includes both Shillamill Tunnel and Viaduct.

As another poster has pointed out, the formation is doubletrack so there should be no problem having the cycleway and reopened railway next to each other.  The AONB completely supports the return of the railway.  Personally, I also think it is essential to get the cycleway into Bere Alston station to encourage tourism visits into the Tamar Valley similar to the Tarka Trail out of Barnstaple.

The latest stage of the process is the public consultation on the West Devon development framework announced this week.  I don't know what the detail is (ie how many houses and where) but the public reaction will be key.

As you can see, Tavistock reopening is looking positive.  I think there will be significant developments this year.


Richard Burningham,
Devon & Cornwall Rail Partnership.

This is who Kilbride say they are - rather playing down the property development side of things, it has to be said, eg Shipton-on-Cherwell Quarry, which is just north of Kidlington and Oxford, is being proposed to take a massive housing development, but because they say it would have a railway station, it would be eco-friendly. Hmm. Maybe if they paid for Kidlington station to reopen too and banned cars from the site, maybe it would be.

http://www.kilbrideresources.co.uk/index.asp

More on the Shipton-on-Cherwell Quarry development (link below.)
http://www.oxfordmail.net/news/headlines/display.var.2046026.0.ecotown_will_harm_wildlife.php

The following link is to an article about the current state of affairs in the project to reinstate the Tavistock line.

http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=141529&command=displayContent&sourceNode=141513&contentPK=20175970&moduleName=InternalSearch&formname=sidebarsearch

Westcountry transport analyst Neill Mitchell has campaigned to have the route reopened for four decades. He said: "It was a terrible mistake to close this line; it's complete madness to be just a few miles short of Tavistock. Anything likely to deliver that is to be welcomed, particularly at a time when Tavistock is being required to increase its housing stock."

But he was concerned a train operator had not yet agreed to run the line.

The link below is to a report of the County Council's positive response to the plan to reinstate the line yesterday.

http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=141529&command=displayContent&sourceNode=141513&contentPK=20185393&moduleName=InternalSearch&formname=sidebarsearch

However, many people in Tavistock are unconvinced and the town council has condemned the plan. Coun Michael Harper said: "It's the biggest folly I've ever heard of. I don't think it's commercially viable. Everyone I've spoken to is against this.

"We are going to fight it every inch of the way."

Roy Connelly, West Devon Councillor for Tavistock, told the meeting he welcomed the proposals, but would want further evidence that Kilbride's proposals would work in the "local context" and that local opinion would be taken into consideration during negotiations.

The following link is to the minutes of Tavistock Town Council's Finance & gen Purposes Committee meeting on 26 March 2008. Paragraph 648 deals with the Kilbridde/Railway proposal and makes interesting reading.

http://www.tavistock.gov.uk/page/finance_mins_26th_march_08

648.   RAILWAY
The Mayor had noticed that an article in the Western Morning News about the railway concept quoted a councillor as saying ^We are going to fight it every inch of the way^ yet the Town Council had a policy of supporting the railway (Best Value Community Objective 5, copied below:

^The Town Council will encourage all proposals to improve public transport into and out of the Town, including the ^Drake^ railway line extension from Bere Alston and improvements to the traffic flow on the A386, both north and south.  It will continue support for the Community Bus Service, and will press for improved public transport facilities in order to reduce the need for car traffic in the Town).

Members debated the railway concept so all were clear on what the Town Council position was.  Cllr Harper gave a full and comprehensive report on the ^Kilbride^ proposal and its drawbacks.  He reminded Members that they had resolved not to support either of the two options in the LDF, and that the council view was not against the railway concept in principle, but against the particular proposal to fund it by building 750 houses with all the problems that would bring.  Members also felt the proposed railway would not serve the need of modern commuters, who did not need to go to the dockyard but to the Derriford area where modern employment was situated.  Members noted that the demise of the Best Value concept meant that the relevant objective would not be published post April 2008, and needed no revision per se.  They agreed the council policy was that they would support proposals to improve public transport into and out of the Town, including in principle the railway line, but not the ^Kilbride^ proposal.

Why did the councillors not mention tourism and day-trippers that would use the line?
Tavistock is a very pleasant market town, with much historical value. It is used as a day out (to the pannier market and other attractions) from visitors from all over Devon & Cornwall and beyond, as well as hikers exploring Dartmoor. The railway could have a great deal of use here in bringing visitors to and fro, as well as commuters to/from Plymouth.

Some of the town councillors sound very insular, and not very forward looking to me.

Interesting aritcle in Rail, out in the shops on thursday, subscribers got it today, nice long article about tavvy reopening, seems that Kilbride have already started the wheels in motion, they hope to submit their Transport and Works act order in 2009!

If there is currently little or no demand, it is almost entirely due to the fact that at the moment it is much more convenient to do the whole journey by car.

Bemmy. With respect, my comment which you remarked upon was about the existing Gunnislake line, rather than the non-existant Tavistock line. We seem to have our points crossed (maybe a catch point ha ha - sorry terrible).

I hardly think NR will spend millions on a short section of track in Devon when they rejected a few miles of track in Sussex. However, a scheme to create a major route might get started.

Here's some reading material re Tavistock.

The "Evidence of Deliverability" report is Kilbride Community Rail's current view on how they would deliver the Bere Alston - Tavistock line (including, in section 3, an outline timetable)

http://www.kilbridegroup.com/tavistock/docs.asp

Kilbride group are paying for it in return for planning permission to build houses - at least thats what I understood

Yes, that's the idea.

Welcome on board 34104 (or should that be Bere Alston?  ;) )

Fingers crossed for a positive outcome on 7th. I do wish they could get the end of the line further into Tavistock though.

Update from this weeks Tavistock Times under headline "Kilbride hopes for borough approval".Looks like April 7th is a very important date for the project.This is the date that West Devon Borough Council decide if the project is to be included in the Local Development Framework,which determines future planning in the district.A couple of items in the newspaper report which i interpret as positive-Devon County Council are in the process of completing the purchase of the majority of trackbed from BRRB and are negotiating with private landowners.There is also a quote from Mr Chris Dunford WDBC planning officer-"The recommended strategy for Tavistock is one of a number of options to deliver the required housing and other infrastructure that have been considered,The advantage of this one is that it would deliver the railway as well.This is the best option,we feel,for Tavistock." So,reason maybe for cautious optimism.Kilbride also put a 4 page pamphlet,which is basically a precis of the online document about the project, with each copy of the paper today,so they've certainly been busy on the publicity side of things.Any further information i will pass on as i get it.


John

Does anyone have any news on how it went yesterday?

HI, THIS TOPIC HAS STALLED!!!

It clearly shows the problem of support of all projects Rail.

Whilst the Road Lobby is up and Kicking there is no organised national Rail Lobby, yes there is Rail Future (RDS or what ever they call themselves now) but Rail Future is spilit into Branches who all have there own key projects, Rail Futures a good bunch of Men & Women with the right Ideas (I'm a former RDS member).

What is needed is a National Rail Lobby that Puts forward a Key Rail Project (such as Tavistock reinstatement) and campaigns for it Nationally. 
When DfT gives in then the Campaign turns to the next Project such as reinstating Rail to St Ives Cambs.

That's the way forward for a much better Rail System in this Country.

Perhaps this thread should be shut, and diverted to the other one. ???

Cue Chris with a bad joke...

Ahem!  :o ::)

Good news: West Devon Council voted decisively in favour of incorporating the plan to restore the rail link to Tavistock into its core strategy last night. It seems as if the scrutiny/consultation stages will take another year, with formal plans being submitted in 2010.

http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/news/Council-backs-bring-rail-link/article-921575-detail/article.html

Good news indeed.This has been talked for so long that until the first train is rumbling out of Bere Alston towards Tavistock,i shall remain cynical! Certainly looks good though.I'm not really au fait with planning procedures etc-do you know if there are any stumbling blocks that could be placed in the way of the project?

One issue now is that all regional transport projects (other than motorways) are funded by Regional Funding Allocation and have to be given priority by the Regional Assembly.  It will not only be up against road projects but also local public transport schemes and it could be decided that the scheme is not a regional priority as the funds needs to be used in other areas of the South West region.

Would the funding not be covered by Kilbride's involvement though? I was under the impression that Kilbride would fund[^18 million is the last projected figure] and build the railway and make their profit from also building the 750 new homes.

Is that the entire cost of the project?

Richard, as someone who is more in the know than most, would you hazard a guess as to the chances that this will now actually happen? 50%? 75%?

Perhaps the government have been voting?

Would you use the proposed train link from Tavistock to Plymouth?
Yes         62%
No           33%
Maybe      5%

COME ON YOU LOT VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just have!

Railway draws closer  Thursday, 30 April 2009 

The reinstatement of the railway between Bere Alston and Tavistock has moved a step closer, following this week^s decision by Devon County Council^s executive.
Councillors agreed to support the principle of entering into a joint venture partnership with Kilbride Properties Ltd to deliver the multi-million project which would re-open the line from Bere Alston station to a new station at Tavistock, with a regular through train service operated to and from Plymouth. 
Sections of the railway track bed of the old line, which closed in 1968, have been purchased by the county council ^ with the transfer from BRB Property completed in March.
Some land clearance has now also been carried out along the route.
Cllr Margaret Rogers, the executive member for environment, said: ^Re-opening the railway line and developing a new walking and cycling route will provide people with real alternatives to using their cars.
^This formal partnership will hopefully enable the development of walking and cycling trails running alongside the railway to access the Cornwall and West Devon Mining Landscape Heritage sites.
^Not only will this scheme help the county council to make Devon even greener by cutting congestion, but it could provide an economic boost for local tourism.^
The re-opening of the railway line and provision of a railway station at Tavistock are among the key transport proposals in the adopted structure plan, Devon to 2016, and the current West Devon Local Development Framework includes proposals for 250 homes next to the proposed railway station, south of the A390 Callington Road.
West Devon Borough Council last week voted for its core strategy proposals which included backing for a rail link ^in principle^ for Tavistock.

Hopes rise to restore rail link

A plan to restore a Devon rail link closed in the 1960s has moved closer after Devon County Council bought the track bed from Tavistock to Bere Alston.

There seems to be an action group forming in Tavistock opposed to the proposed developments,including the reopening of the railway,outlined by WDBC recently.They have called a parish poll for 13th August[see their website www.protectthetavyvalley.com] and are backed by Tavistock town council.I think that many of this group were involved in a successful campaign to overturn a proposal by WDBC to build a new Sainsbury's in Tavistock,so they are not to be underestimated.If any readers of this post are in Tavistock,or know somebody who will be, on August 13th,it may be a good idea to get to the poll and vote for the developments.Although parish polls are not binding on the planning inspectorate,a heavy vote against the proposals could have a possible influence on the outcome.

if they win i will personally head a plan for a 6 lane motorway threw there back gardens!!  >:(

If you do, I think I'll call the Punctuation Police! (or more accurately the "Garda Grammattica") ;) :P

...I do applaud his enthusiasm and support for the campaign!  ;) :D ;D

In his haste to post in support of the campaign to restore the rail link to Tavistock, and express concern over this latest attempt to block it, relex109 may have overlooked some spelling, grammar or syntax errors.

One of the key reasons for siting the development where it is, is that the site can be used to build a new rail connection via Bere Alston to Plymouth. The rail link will be funded from the sale of the houses, using ^Clause 106^ money that requires funds from the sale of houses in large developments to be set aside for local services. However, it is not necessary to build the houses on the same site as the proposed new railway station: the station will be built to serve all of Tavistock, not just the nearby houses, and therefore any new houses in Tavistock could legitimately justify money being set aside to build a new rail link to cater for the new and existing population.

He also overlooked the fact that they are objecting to the building of new houses and an access road, and not the restoration of the railway line..

If you think that this group is not opposed to the railway,just look at the "Town life and business"section on their website

I did: 'the chosen site' refers to the housing, not the railway. Perhaps you should try reading it more carefully.

Just a snippet of information-for the past week,vegetation clearance has been taking place on Shillamill viaduct,near Tavistock.I would presume this means that clearance has taken place all the way back to the broken bridge over the main Tavvy-Callington road,can't see how vehicles would access the viaduct otherwise.I shall try to find out more.Presume this would be to facilitate the cycle path rather than the railway in the first place,but it's a start.

Thanks for the update "34104".  The road comes quite close to the southern end of the viaduct.  That section from the viaduct to the tunnel is owned by Tavistock Woodlands so access to the southern end is pretty straightforward.  A few years ago, I was part of a group who spent a very pleasant Saturday walking as much of the trackbed as you can.

     I would suspect the viaduct has been cleared to gauge necessary maintenance work, but the cycleway is going to happen whatever the decision re the railway and it probably is (as you say) to facilitate that.  Whatever the reason, it's very good news.

I've not been along there for a while - it would be great if clearance work had been done from the Tavistock end.  I remember that being very overgrown with no easy road access.

Thanks for the update, John.  Sounds very different from when I was along there - really good stuff.

Good too to hear about the work around Gawton Bridge - when I did my walk four years or so ago, the trackbed was pretty impenetrable around there - lots of brambles etc but the ballast appeared to have just been left when the track was lifted.  I hadn't noticed much ballast on the section from the missing bridge to Shillamill so the fact you can now I think indicates just how much has been done.

In terms of timescales, with the end of the consultation period, I believe West Devon BC will agree their final Local Development Framework for submission to the Secretary of State some time during the Autumn.  I think people are expecting that the Secretary of State will order what is called an "Examination in Public" of the Local Development Framework sometime in the Spring with the Inspector's decision, I'm guessing, by the Summer.


Thanks Richard,i'll keep updating as and when i find out anything new.Hopefully i won't fall down an old mineshaft on my explorations!

If all goes in favour of the Kilbride proposal, and barring anything unforeseen, I would expect that Kilbride would be looking to submit their Transport & Works Act Order application early in 2011.

The key thing is that everything is still moving forward.

Cheers,

Richard

Those following the Tavistock reopening initiative may be interested to learn that there has been a management buyout at Kilbride, taking in the various rail projects, including the Bere Alston-Tavistock initiative. here's the press release: 

http://www.kilbridegroup.com/docs/view_news.asp?nid=48

Does anyone have any info on what's happening on the ground?

Thanks for the update, John.  Sounds very different from when I was along there - really good stuff.

Good too to hear about the work around Gawton Bridge - when I did my walk four years or so ago, the trackbed was pretty impenetrable around there - lots of brambles etc but the ballast appeared to have just been left when the track was lifted.  I hadn't noticed much ballast on the section from the missing bridge to Shillamill so the fact you can now I think indicates just how much has been done.

In terms of timescales, with the end of the consultation period, I believe West Devon BC will agree their final Local Development Framework for submission to the Secretary of State some time during the Autumn.  I think people are expecting that the Secretary of State will order what is called an "Examination in Public" of the Local Development Framework sometime in the Spring with the Inspector's decision, I'm guessing, by the Summer.

If all goes in favour of the Kilbride proposal, and barring anything unforeseen, I would expect that Kilbride would be looking to submit their Transport & Works Act Order application early in 2011.

The key thing is that everything is still moving forward.

Cheers,

Richard

Would not think a change of government would change anything as the ^18.5million cost of the scheme is being met from a levy on the associated 750 housing scheme next to the new Tavistock station and not the public purse.

Could be a snag on the horizon.The new government has issued a letter to councils stating that the housing targets imposed by the previous government are no longer to be regarded as compulsory and that local core strategies can be torn up and housing needs reassessed if the council thinks appropriate ...

Comment in Wiltshire (not Devon / Tavistock) that actually they'll probably only make tiny adjustments - "so much has been put into putting it all together, and it's basically a good strategy ...".   Perhaps the same applies to Devon, or were the extra houses forced onto an unwilling Council in them parts?

Public inquiry into Tavistock housing plans

A public inquiry is to take place in Tavistock over plans to build 750 properties.

West Devon Borough Council (WDBC) wants to complete housing targets set by the previous Labour government, including 750 properties in Crowndale Valley.

But some West Devon residents oppose the cluster of properties and are in support of a public inquiry.

The new coalition government said councils no longer had to meet previous targets and could make their own plans.

WDBC Chief Executive, David Incoll, said: "We either plan for the future in a logical way and direct development to what we think are the correct places for it to take place, or we lay ourselves open to developers. We know a lot of developers would like to build residential developments and large supermarkets in the area. And it would be an abdication of responsibility over the next 16 years to have no plan in place."

Plans for Crowndale Valley include new homes, a railway station and a rail line to Plymouth - all to be completed by 2026.

As part of the plans a relief road would also be built, which would run through the farm where Sir Francis Drake was born.

Ann Keelan, of Protect the Tavy Valley, said: "Sir Francis Drake's birthplace is potentially our most important heritage site. But we're not going to have much of an interpreted environment if it's surrounded by a housing estate."

The public inquiry will consider whether the housing levels set for west Devon under Labour are justified and consistent with local and central policy.

I know things move slowly in this country but 2026?!?!?!

Is the reason noone's suggested extending Gunnislake/Tavistock services through North Road and around to a new station at the end of the Plymouth Friary stub that it's such an off-the-wall proposition?

Thanks for your answer, Richard.

Re Friary, it's just that I get frustrated seeing this line unused yet with the potential of giving Plymouth a more geographically comprehensive urban rail service.

You're right to refocus the posts on Tavistock project  :-[  and the positive news about the inspector's report. It will be great when the earth actually starts moving on this (as an actress might once have said to a bishop!).

 

I think the main thing is to get to Tavistock, Andy.  Having said that, it's hard to see why going through to a station close to the Friary station site would be worth all the time and expense to make it happen, and I speak as one of the beneficiaries if it did happen as I live just around the corner from there.

Good news about the inspector's report.   The next step wil be West Devon Borough Council's full Council meeting on 18 April - the revised Core Strategy is being taken to this for adoption.

Is the reason noone's suggested extending Gunnislake/Tavistock services through North Road and around to a new station at the end of the Plymouth Friary stub that it's such an off-the-wall proposition?

After the end of the 2nd World War Plymouth Corporation asked the government to re-route the main line through Plymouths bomb ravaged city centre which was largely in ruins by linking Plymouth Friary station to Millbay station with a newly constructed line so taking the main line through the heart of the city centre and bypassing todays route via Mutley tunnel and North road station.If that scheme had happened Plymouths local rail network would be very different now.But alas we are where we are.

Where did you get that from, Woody?  I have a copy of the Abercrombie plan for the rebuilding of Plymouth here and he was focused entirely on North Road station (as advised by the GWR).

how long is the journey time supposed to be for Tavistock? (from Plymouth)

Yes Plymboi. As stated in my earlier posts, Killbride have now moved onto the Transport and Works Order. This is a lenghthy process (14 months is estimated) and largely paperwork. It will look like little is going on but real progress is starting to be made.

Check out the Killbride site and you will see this in the news section, placed over the last month or 2.

Hope this helps

Yes 34104. West Country Class Bere Alston. Very apt

I could not agree with you more. The housing and small amounts (relatively) to be sorted and much more could be achieved.

The Political will must change. I have no idea of your age but can you imagine the price of fuel in 10 or 20 years time?

Totnes has a large catchment area, including most of the South Hams, Kingsbridge and Salcombe to name but a few large places.Tavistock of course has Launceston and Princetown.

I agree that the reopening is very much a long term project.

Reopening the line as far as Tavistock is at least a start.

I retire in 23 years. I hope to be alive to see a Westcountry Pacific crossing Meldon Viaduct......oh to dream!

It might just be one of their people...

As for the timings of the southern route, looking at the 1966 timetable the journey time was around 2 hours! admittedly all were stopping trains but were in the hands of DMU's so accelaration and braking would be quite good, and there don't appear to be any big layovers anywhere either, so it was quite a lot slower than the GW route.

... or someone else, nicking a few bricks ...  :o ::) ;D

DCC did indeed buy some of the trackbed from the Tavistock end onwards,i'm not sure if it was as far as Gawton Bridge,i think it was,because a couple of years ago the trackbed was cleared further towards Bere Alston after this bridge,to a point where i think landowners were reluctant to sell at Tuckermarsh.This would suggest that DCC were behind this clearance-it was started at Tavistock,prior to this just about the entire line was impenetrable.I had a quick look at the bridge this pm-it certainly looks,to my admittedly untrained eye,as if new cement [or whatever material is used] has been used to infill pointing at the top of the bridge.I'll check again tomorrow and ask the guy,if he's there,what the purpose of the work is.


Much appreciated 34104. When I get the chance i must pop up and see what is going on too

It could have been worse - the viaducts in Tavistock were only saved from demolition because of the cost of doing so and because West Devon Borough Council then took them over.  If they had gone in the 1970s, any hope of one day reopening Tavistock - Okehampton would have disappeared for ever.  A very close run thing.

The main line between Exeter and Plymouth via Okehampton would never be a viable alternative to the GW route, it would involve two reversals for Cornish services, serves no real population and the journey times would be far longer!

The reason a lot of the Southern routes fared worse in the west was partly because most of the stations they built were miles from the towns they were meant to serve (Callington, Camelford, Okehampton, Lyme regis...) Whether it was more luck than judgement most GWR stations in the West are pretty well situated for their towns (St Ives, Penzance, Redruth, Falmouth, Looe, Newton Abbot, Paignton and so on), also a lot of the Southern routes were single track winding branches. The main line between Exeter and Plymouth via Okehampton would never be a viable alternative to the GW route, it would involve two reversals for Cornish services, serves no real population and the journey times would be far longer!

This is interesting news. I hope it is to do with the reopening. As I understand it though the TWAO is what is happening now. This piece of land is now owned by West Devon Council I believe and they may be assessing the structure for themselves. Let us know more if you hear any further!

Remember that since the bridge is a highway structure Devon CC will have to inspect it every 5 years anyway.  That might not count for the viaduct though!

As an aside, and at a tangent, I went up to Okehampton and Meldon yesterday. I noticed signs attached to posts near some railway structures on road overbridges on the A386. I stopped to look and it is Devon County Council putting notice of CPO's to enable extension of the Granite Way. This must be viewed as positive also as it will protect the line. I am not sure of the exact location but it is between Lydford and Tavistock (though not sure exactly where!). Any help to pinpoint hthis would be much appreciated ;D

Work wont start til 2014 there is an update from Feb 2012 not seen it before;

http://www.devon.gov.uk/120204_tavistock_railway_leaflet_8_gm.pdf

Last Friday while travelling to Exeter from Plymouth on a Paddington train I could not help noticing the man in the seat in front of me was reading a document which seemed to list and comment on various rail related improvement schemes in Devon and Cornwall.eg Extending the station footbridge at Newton Abbot station towards the Brunel Industrial estate,extending the platforms at St James Park to accommadate 4 car trains,a half hourly train service from Exeter to paignton etc etc.But what caught my eye was somethong about the Tavistock line re-opening.As we both rose to get off the train at Exeter I took the opportunity to speak to him saying that I could not help noticing him reading the document and so asked him what the current situation was regarding the Tavistock line re-opening as all seems very quiet at the moment.He assured me in a very upbeat way it was still moving forward although the situation with the housing market on which the whole scheme hinges had slowed things down a bit.So I asked him how long will we have to wait.He said very positively "You will definitely see trains running to Tavistick in 5 years".
  Given all this I assumed he was something to do with the Devon and Cornwall rail partnership.

Nice to meet you, Woody.   Good guess!

I was on my way to the ExeRail meeting at County Hall.  That paper, the ExeRail programme, is a public document and I have attached it.

Richard Burningham,
Manager, Devon & Cornwall Rail Partnership

Last Friday while travelling to Exeter from Plymouth on a Paddington train I could not help noticing the man in the seat in front of me was reading a document which seemed to list and comment on various rail related improvement schemes in Devon and Cornwall.eg Extending the station footbridge at Newton Abbot station towards the Brunel Industrial estate,extending the platforms at St James Park to accommadate 4 car trains,a half hourly train service from Exeter to paignton etc etc.But what caught my eye was somethong about the Tavistock line re-opening.As we both rose to get off the train at Exeter I took the opportunity to speak to him saying that I could not help noticing him reading the document and so asked him what the current situation was regarding the Tavistock line re-opening as all seems very quiet at the moment.He assured me in a very upbeat way it was still moving forward although the situation with the housing market on which the whole scheme hinges had slowed things down a bit.So I asked him how long will we have to wait.He said very positively "You will definitely see trains running to Tavistick in 5 years".
  Given all this I assumed he was something to do with the Devon and Cornwall rail partnership.

The new issue of Rail (out today) has an eight page feature on the Tavistock reopening with lots of great pictures.  Highly recommended.

What a great opportunity to secure the trackbed for the future - and a more central site for a Tavistock station ;-)

Amy update on tavistock then? Seems very quiet since the start of the year. I assume the public consultation will still go ahead in 2014 with building starting in 2016/17 which is such a long way off, initial plans would have seen the building and track laying at this time for a 2014 opening. Oh in a perfect world.

I really want this link reestablished. But it's a shame the old tavistock north couldn't be turned back into its former glory and instead we have a modern new build :( but better then no link at all :).

How far would the new station be from tavistock north?. I assume that would mean an altered route to the old line, meaning a new route would be needed in order to extend towards okehampton ( which I don't think will ever happen in near future, that's more of an issue when we actually have a link to tavistock, then we can talk about that link) :)

Nature had final say on axed railway line

Fifty years ago tomorrow the last train was due to run from Launceston to Plymouth ^ but it never arrived at its destination.

It was a night to remember and I know because I was there.

The Launceston to Plymouth branch line, via Tavistock, was being closed due to the cuts recommended by Dr Beeching, who had been called in by the Government to make the railways, which had been haemorrhaging money, profitable. Its fate was similar to branch rail lines throughout Cornwall and the rest of the country in the early 1960s.

December 29, 1962, was the date for the end of the Launceston service which had been operating for 97 years ^ but in the end nature, not Dr Beeching, closed the line.

As a young trainee reporter I was detailed to travel out of Launceston's old Southern Railways station at 5.40pm and return on the final train from Plymouth, arriving at Launceston at 10.10pm where it was due to be met by a reception party including early television cameras with BBC presenter Joe Pengelly.

However, my journey proved to be one which a keen railway enthusiast on the train likened to the Trans-Siberian Express. As we left Launceston with about 40 passengers and a wreath on the front of the tank engine to mark the solemn occasion, there was only a light fall of snow and none of the passengers could have known what was in store.

After passing through Lifton and Coryton we got our first sight of the blizzard at Lidaton Halt. Two passengers stepped out of their carriage to find themselves knee deep in snow and the nameboard barely visible.

The real snowstorm began at Lydford, and the station at Mary Tavy was covered. Tavistock was blanketed in snow, and myself and a friend, Mike 'Chico' Davey, decided to stay there and catch the last train, due to leave at 9.30pm, back.

We had a few hours to sample the hostelries of Tavistock (despite being under age at the time) then returned to the station where two buglers from the Army Cadet Force were waiting to give us a rousing send-off.

Their bugles were never blown, as they left long before a train arrived at 12.15 ^ and that was what was supposed to be an earlier one which left Plymouth at 6.20pm and was five and a half hours late on a journey of less than 20 miles.

We had been in the waiting room, warmed by a blazing coal fire, with a mixture of railway enthusiasts and one person who was returning from a holiday in Plymouth, and as the train arrived we ran across the bridge and into a carriage, closing the doors on the blinding snow and howling gale outside.

Once inside we expected to be moving, but it was not to be. There was a signalling failure near Lydford, and as we waited the snow piled up on the line. The stationmaster made calls to find out if the train could get through to Launceston, but at 3.30am he came to the carriages to tell us we would be there until daylight.

We sang, ate nuts and smoked cigarettes until falling asleep. At about 7.30am I awoke to see the blizzard still raging outside and the snow piling higher, and 25 of us made our way to the stationmaster's office, where we huddled around the fire as the engine's fire had gone out although it kept us warm through the night.

The radio was on, which told us on the national news that the Civil Defence was attempting to reach a train and its passengers stuck in snow at Tavistock. We sat around thinking of ways to go home when in walked a Civil Defence worker.

He said they and the Women's Voluntary Service had organised food and somewhere for us to stay in a nearby church hall, where we were given breakfast and cups of tea. It was said to be impossible to get back to Launceston that day, so we were given a hot lunch and Chico kept spirits up by playing the hits of the day on the piano.

Later we heard that an ambulance had got through to Launceston so we got hold of a Tavistock taxi driver who said he would attempt it for twice the normal fee.

Poet and teacher Charles Causley, Chico and I slowly got to Launceston over the narrow winding roads, through drifts higher than the hedges.

Many others were not so lucky. Enthusiasts who had travelled to Plymouth earlier on the Saturday spent the night in a freezing station, and with no trains or buses on the road they hitch-hiked the 30 miles home, some of them walking all the way.

Those waiting to greet the last train at Launceston eventually gave up and went home, but those who had tickets to Plymouth were put up at the White Hart Hotel by British Rail.

It was the end of the line, one of the first of many closures in Cornwall, and I was one of the last passengers. But it was almost another week before the trains got to their intended destinations.

One aspect of the trip always makes me smile, especially when thinking of the recent criticism of huge expenses claimed by some of our politicians.

I had bought a train ticket, for 1/6d or 7.5p I think, had a meal in Tavistock, been stuck out all night and paid double the normal fare for a taxi home to Launceston. I wrote out my expense sheet, with a total of ^1.8s.6d ^1.42.5p in today's money.

The owner of the paper, Mr Venning senior, looked at it and said: "Are you sure this is enough?"

I replied that this was all I had spent, but he increased it to a magnificent '30 bob' ^1.50p.

My first scoop, my first newspaper byline and all that cash ^ a night to remember.

Apparently there has been an item on the local BBC news this am about a planning application being submitted soon-whether this is from Bovis or connected with the TWO,i'm not sure but i will keep lugholes akimbo and post further updates as and when.

Awww I missed the news bulletin! I tried to find it online but doesn't seem to be available on catch up!

The BBC's regional evening news programmes tend to take a day or two to show up on BBC iPlayer.

The BBC's regional evening news programmes tend to take a day or two to show up on BBC iPlayer.

It was indeed on Spotlight tonight.No definite dates,just "Spotlight has learned" that Bovis are in the process of formulating the application for planning permission for the start of the housebuilding programme at Monksmead,hopefully triggering the rebuilding of the railway.Didn't specify where they learned this from but i guess something must be happening behind the scenes.Various experts talked about how the recession has led to the delay of the project but were generally quite positive about the prospects for the sale of the houses to be built by Bovis,so hopefully things will move forward from here.

I would say the same about Portishead. With any railway project, it seems like we are waiting for a glacier to move away, or Bristol Rovers to win the Premiership. There is a finite pool of labour and equipment for railway building, however, and the Governance for Railway Investment Projects (GRIP) (http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/4171.aspx) process is one that can't be done in two ticks, and is there for a reason.

Here  (http://www.bbc.co.uk/i/b01phbzj/?t=3m38s)is the report. Not sure how long it will be available, so fill your boots now!

1) The housebuilders are looking to the beauty of the area, which will be severely diminished by building the houses.

3) There will be an application to build 750 houses. Bovis will want to make a profit. If the reinstatement of the railway costs, say ^20 million, the railway premium per house will be ^26,666.67, or over 10% on a ^250,000 home. SUrely the s106 payments will not be the only source of funding?

Hope their forecast is more accurate than their knowledge of history,as they said the line closed in 1962.Intriguing item though-lazy journalism or do they know something that we don't?

According to this article (http://www.devonnewscentre.info/business/county-council-welcomes-commitment-to-examine-rail-network-resilience/) on Devon County Council's website (referring to the recent Network Rail 5 year plan), services could start in December 2016. There's also mention of Okehampton to Exeter services starting in December 2014, depending on rolling stock availability.

Wait till the bats and newts arrive on the scene...

I think thats the first time i've seen a definite date mentioned,great news.Fingers crossed that things go smoothly for both projected reopenings [followed by the bit in the middle in due course ;D].

I recorded the Spotlight piece and have watched it a couple of times since-i couldn't actually find any reference to the BBC business correspondent saying that it would take 5-6 years.That would certainly contradict Richard Burningham,who stated on this thread a while back that trains would definitely be running to Tavistock by 2017.Wonder if Richard would care to comment on this matter?

Supported by other organisations, Devon County Council has started on the preparation phase of this process, which requires significant work to examine the current structures on the disused rail track, lie of the land and the environmental character of the route before designing the railway and stations.

Presumably, the activity mentioned by 34104 is this:


from the council press release. This shows either supreme confidence or a demonstration that the council means business. I think it may be time to look at property in Tavvy as an investment.

I've been away for three weeks, first day back today, so sorry for not coming back re this earlier.

Whilst on another forum site one of the contributors found this useful link about the proposals. Hi handle is 'charlee' so I must pass on thanks to him. link below and worth a look. I particularly like the fact it talks about altering the layout at Bere Alston so the Gunnislake service is not affected. Also gives a  timeline 2016-2020.

http://www.devon.gov.uk/exhibition_material

What exactly does this mean though:

"A regular service between Tavistock and Plymouth with services during the peak hours."

Before ATW introduced Welsh Govt supported services last year, Fishguard Harbour had the most regular service in the country, 24 hours a day: one train every 12 hours!  Vague language is always an advantage when writing publicity.

Cynical view of "a regular service" is one that runs every 3 hours from Tavistock - say 06:15, 09:15, 12:15, 15:15, 18:15 and 21:15.   Note - nothing there for Plymouth commuters (perhaps the train's up at Gunnislake?).  So "with services during peak hours" is a correct and welcome additional comment - it means that one's planned to be at a reasonable commuter time (and it's a correction we need in Wiltshire!)

The aspiration is an hourly service between Plymouth and Tavistock (or as near that as possible) so I think the text error is simply a typo.

Consultation is today in tavistock. Is anyone going?

Spoke to him a while about the Parry People Mover at Stourbridge. Maybe that would be suitable as a shuttle....light rail on Bere Alston- Gunny section....if it could cope with the gradients and curvature.  He apparently didn't know about this and noted it down to investigate.

I went to the Tavistock one tonight.
...
There were many people there and I didnt want to monopolise him when so many others wished to speak to him and his colleagues.
...
Was good to see many people going to see the proposals, though how many were pro or anti I do not know.

Open doors on both sides so as people can board/alight for either changing to/from Gunnislake or for normal alighting/boarding at Bere Alston.

Just a few things picking up on people's comments -

The key objective here is, of course, to provide the best possible service (in the most cost effective way) on both the new line to Tavistock and the existing one to Gunnislake.

The idea of running a core Plymouth - Tavistock service with a shuttle Bere Alston - Gunnislake allows a train to run about every hour and a quarter between Plymouth and Tavistock with a more frequent service than now on the Gunnislake line, albeit with a change.  You would make a great connection with trains coming into Plymouth in the morning, switching to making a great connection from Plymouth trains in the afternoon.   

Running alternate through trains Plymouth - Gunnislake and Plymouth - Tavistock would mean each destination would only see a train every two and a bit hours and, worse still, you would have to chose whether Tavistock or Gunnislake had the core commuter services (Plymouth arrive by 08 30 and depart 16 30 ish).

Splitting and joining trains at Bere Alston would solve this issue but would mean that Bere Alston would need to be fully signalled, from Plymouth.   That would come with a big price tag which can be simply avoided with the option that is being persued.

Building out the old up platform avoids the need for an expensive (^1 m plus) ramped footbridge and FGW are comfortable with opening the doors on both sides at Bere Alston (it happens - or can happen - at Yeovil Pen Mill, evidently).  The reason for using the old up platform rather than reinstating the original branch platform is because the up platform was rebuilt in 1961 and hardly used so is in very good condition for its age.  The branch platform would need to be completely rebuilt.

Hope this helps.

But the buses currently wait in the forecourt outside the current platform.  So as well as needing to change trains to get to Plymouth by train, passengers from Gunnislake/Calstock would also have a bit of a trek at Bere Alston to meet any bus connections (though maybe those are only to Tavistock which could be served by rail - I don't know).  The benefits of a frequent shuttle between G'lake and BA include possible rail connections to Tavistock as well as Plymouth, which would be good.  Overall the 'branch connection' at BA does seem to make sense.

Would putting a passing loop such as the one at penyrn be viable for Bere Alston?

I suppose any demand for a tavistock to gunnislake service would be next to none would it not? When people talk of the tavistock to meldon part also being constructed would it not have to be redoubled? As a single track would provide an awful level of service.

Would putting a passing loop such as the one at penyrn be viable for Bere Alston?

I suppose any demand for a tavistock to gunnislake service would be next to none would it not? When people talk of the tavistock to meldon part also being constructed would it not have to be redoubled? As a single track would provide an awful level of service.

our Acronyms/Abbreviations page (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/acronyms.html)

Should I arrange to have 're-duped' added to our Acronyms/Abbreviations page (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/acronyms.html)?  :P

. Plan to revive old Devon railway line for 750-home community unveiled

Plans for hundreds of new homes linked to the reopening of a Devon railway line are to be the subject of a public exhibition next week.

The line from Bere Alston to Tavistock in West Devon was among those axed by Dr Beeching 50 years ago, although there remains a regular service from Bere Alston to Plymouth.....

I read someone's account of there talks with a county officer who told them that:

An extra point was to be built after the bridge on the gunnislake line at Bere Alston station, and the line extended along the up platform, so the 13 a day service can continue. And the gunnislake trains will meet the tavistock trains on arrival, and using separate tracks will minimise infrastructure.


And that the old waiting room on Bere Alston's up platform has already been granted approval for restoration funding.

Just received an e mail from Bovis homes,they are holding an exhibition in the Bedford Hotel in Tavistock on Friday 22nd February,open from 1300 hrs until 2000hrs. The exhibition is to outline their plans for the housing development in conjunction with the rebuilding of the railway,outline planning application is being made later this year,may be worth a look for anyone interested. They are also opening a website after the exhibition in which comments and opinions can be passed on to Bovis - www.bovishomes.co.uk/tavistock. They can also be e mailed at tavistock@bovishomes.co.uk.



Edit note: Punctuation amended slightly to allow hyperlink to work. CfN.

What do you think about trains coming to Tavistock?

What do you think about trains coming to Tavistock? As plans to revive the old line from Tavistock to Plymouth become more defined, we open up the debate on Tavistock People with three questions for residents to consider^

For years there has been discussion about re-opening the railway line between Tavistock and Bere Alston. Axed by Dr Beeching on 5 May 1968, a recent engineering assessment has revealed that the 5.5 mile route ^ including bridges and tunnels ^ remains in sound condition.

It's been proposed that a new single-track railway would be built to link Tavistock to Bere Alston, plus a new cycleway and footpath from Tavistock to the Bere peninsula.

Some strengthening work of the original cuttings and embankments may be required to update them for modern rail use. In addition a new station in the town's Callington Road area would be built and the existing station at Bere Alston would be upgraded.

If the railway was reinstated, it would give a direct service between Tavistock and Plymouth.

Reopening the line could greatly improve travelling options for residents, commuters and businesses as well as linking Tavistock and West Devon with the national rail network. It could also reduce traffic on the busy A386 Tavistock to Plymouth road.

But the line could come at a cost, depending on your viewpoint. The project would largely be funded by national house builder Bovis Homes, which plans to develop a mixture of 750 new homes, employment units, open space and other community facilities to the south and south west of Tavistock. The reopened rail link is seen as playing a key role in supporting new development in the town.

Consultation ^ between Devon County Council, Kilbride Community Rail, West Devon Borough Council, Network Rail and Bovis Homes ^ is ongoing. DCC recently helped to keep things on track for the public by holding four information meetings at the end of January along with a recent exhibition at Tavistock's Bedford Hotel.

Before the railway can be developed, DCC says it needs to apply to the Government for a public enquiry. If that goes ahead, it could be in 2014. If the necessary powers are obtained, construction could begin in 2016.

But does Tavistock want the railway to return? Tavistock People put three questions to some local residents of different ages. Here's what they said to the first of our questions...

What do you think about trains coming to Tavistock?

From Tavistock People (http://www.tavistockpeople.co.uk/think-trains-coming-Tavistock/story-18233476-detail/story.html?):

... there are some NIMBYS in tavistock ain't there. One comment " it will ruin our town" is utter garbage some people are really strange to be fair.

Is it the railway they are objecting to or the 750 houses?

Would reinstating the rail link be a good or a bad thing for Tavistock?

Would reinstating the rail link be a good or a bad thing for Tavistock? We continue our debate on Tavistock People, with the second of three questions put to Tavistock residents^

For years there has been discussion about re-opening the railway line between Tavistock and Bere Alston, giving a direct service between Tavistock and Plymouth.

Axed by Dr Beeching on 5 May 1968, the route remains in sound condition, although some strengthening of original cuttings and embankments may be required to update them for modern rail use.

If the railway was reinstated, it could improve travelling options for residents, commuters and businesses as well as reducing traffic on the busy A386 Tavistock to Plymouth road.

But the line could come at a cost. The project would largely be funded by national house builder Bovis Homes, who plan to develop 750 new homes to the south and south west of Tavistock.

Consultation ^ between Devon County Council, Kilbride Community Rail, West Devon Borough Council, Network Rail and Bovis Homes ^ is ongoing. There could be a public enquiry in 2014, and, if the necessary powers are obtained, construction could begin in 2016.

But does Tavistock want the railway to return? Tavistock People put three questions to some local residents of different ages. Here's how they replied to our second question^

Would reinstating the rail link be a good or a bad thing for Tavistock?

Further update from Kilbride;

http://www.kilbridegroup.com/docs/view_news.asp?nid=53

There was a chap dressed in all the appropriate gear seemingly carrying out inspection/testing work on the skewed iron bridge over the lower Tavistock-BA road yesterday and a van parked on the trackbed today,so it would appear that things are still moving apace.One of the engineering people who were giving the presentation at BA station a couple of months ago said that the iron bridge may need replacing,maybe that is the point of the work being carried out at the moment.

Lostwithiel to Fowey would be the obvious one, and a relatively easy win.

When they said they looked into Devon and cornwall for line reopenings. It made me wonder wether there was any scope for lines in Cornwall to reopen.

When they said they looked into Devon and cornwall for line reopenings. It made me wonder wether there was any scope for lines in Cornwall to
Now I would like to see trains again to Padstow, bearing in mind, Wadebridge town excepted, the line is still in place, and with the B&W railway still working on their extension programme, could there be a case (after a successful Tavistock re instatement hopefully) of relaying to Padstow, surely of all the closures and based on how busy the town is these days, this could be the first of any rail re instatements in Cornwall? Or would Rick Stein etc 'kick off' big time?
Back to Tavistock though just how much longer are the first trains away, and why does it take so long (first seriously 'mooted' around 1989!) to achieve any rail re instatement in England??

Great idea, but there is a co-op in the way at Wadebridge......

They are talking about turning the old sidmouth branch into a cycle path and I fear that if it gets the go ahead that it will be the end to any chance of the line reopening, I know it's not a huge population area but it would serve two towns and help reduce congestion in Exeter could also increase tourism to sidmouth ... I say could as this does seem to be a local place for local people the precious things must be protected on mutters moor

Is there animus for the branch to be rebuilt anyway?

Mea culpa.

Currently no active campaigns, you do get the odd murmuring now and then

Feel guilty abt posting this as it's off-topic but...
   Is the campaign to relay Parkandillack-St Dennis Jcn as part of the eco-towns project a dead duck? There was talk of the incinerator being rail-served as well at one point, wasn't there?

Hmm.  ::)

As well as going off at various tangents on this particular topic, we seem to have overlooked our manners.

May I now offer our rather belated customary warm welcome to the Coffee Shop forum to you, alexross42?  :)

5.12 The railway itself is expected to be delivered in phase with the mixed use development to the south west of the town and the intention is that new rail services will be in operation by the time the development is completed. Whilst the railway is a critical piece of infrastructure and is required to achieve the vision for the town, the residential development itself is not dependent on the railway being in place in the early stages of the plan period. The railway scheme is needed to mitigate the impacts of new development on the A386 and any future developments in the town will be expected to contribute towards it in accordance with Core Strategy Strategic Policy 4. The delivery of the railway will be managed by Devon County Council as the Highway Authority for the area.

5.13 A range of studies and surveys have been undertaken which provide information and evidence to support the railway proposals. Devon County Council is continuing to gather and update information as it progresses the project to deliver the railway. These documents are available on the Council^s website at www.westdevon.gov.uk and include:
 Tavistock Route Re-Opening: Option Refinement and Business Case (October 2012)
 Tavistock to Bere Alston Community Rail Project - Evidence of Deliverability (April 2009)
 Tavistock to Plymouth Corridor ^ Analysis of A386 and Proposed Rail Scheme (September 2010)
 Affordable Housing Viability Assessment ^ Strategic Sites in Okehampton and Tavistock (October 2012)

5.14 North of the planned railway station and access road, no further development should take place along the length of the old railway line that would restrict a possible eventual relaying of the line and rail link to Okehampton. However it is important to note that this will be challenging to deliver and is not currently being developed as part of the on-going rail project.

A new news story here today - http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Plans-750-new-homes-Tavistock/story-18970177-detail/story.html

Which eventually led me to this: http://www.westdevon.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=4469&p=0

The most relevant section of which is this:




Edit note: Quote marks and quoted text layout amended, for clarity. Chris.

Some very intense activity in the Shillamill area.

I tried to post a couple of photo's last night but apparently the KB volume of them is too big,4.4 as opposed to the 2.56 stipulated.  Is there any way around this? Would appreciate any advice, because the pics are quite interesting.

Work seems to have ceased for the past couple of weeks-the clearance went as far as Shillamill viaduct and came to a halt.I think the work must have been in relation to the cyclepath rather than the railway at this stage-there is a large hollow in the trackbed just before the viaduct which has been treated with material suitable for use as a cyclepath but it has not been levelled out-certainly wouldn't be any good for a train,unless nausea tables were provided. I will keep an eye on any further developments -maybe the next stage of the cyclepath will begin at Callington Road and work towards Shillamill. A couple of photo's attached showing the extent of the work so far and one of the viaduct itself,taken through the keyhole of the iron gate at the West end of it.

Walked the section from Callington Road bridge to Shillamill viaduct yesterday and the section from the old station to the outskirts. The section to be relaid seems very solid and well preserved, which 'bodes' well for the future re instatement. In case anyone wants to look at the pictures, here's the link: https://www.facebook.com/andrew.triggs.5/media_set?set=a.10201777286021753.1073741866.1469636110&type=1

Walked the section from Callington Road bridge to Shillamill viaduct yesterday and the section from the old station to the outskirts. The section to be relaid seems very solid and well preserved, which 'bodes' well for the future re instatement. In case anyone wants to look at the pictures, here's the link: https://www.facebook.com/andrew.triggs.5/media_set?set=a.10201777286021753.1073741866.1469636110&type=1

Good news.

Devon council in ^50k court move against own department

A catalogue of errors led to a Devon council spending ^50,000 on a court action against its own planning decision, it has emerged.

In 2007 West Devon Council approved a Focus DIY store in Tavistock. In 2011, when allowing minor changes at the site, the council failed to retain a restriction as a non-food outlet.

After supermarket giant Tesco declared an interest in the site, the council decided in May last year to launch a judicial review of the case. But an internal report has revealed the authority was beyond the three-month time period in which a legal challenge could be made. The court appearance was unsuccessful and resulted in costs of about ^50,000.

A planning application has been now submitted by site owners Marchfield for a Tesco supermarket and is expected to be heard in November.

The report found the delay in seeking a judicial review was partly down to the case "being passed back and forth" between the legal and planning departments, without anyone taking clear ownership or responsibility for it. Councillors voted to seek a judicial review but had not been provided with enough information on the elapsed time period, the report added.

Liberal Democrat councillor Alison Clish-Green said: "The three-month rule for the judicial review is not rocket science and I would have thought most councillors could have got their heads around that. I don't think we were told, as a council, how serious it was and if we had have been, perhaps we would not have gone for the judicial review."

The report, called The Focus Review, made a number of recommendations including creating a closer partnership between the legal and planning departments and said that any serious litigation proceedings should be dealt with promptly.

I have just found out that there is a lecture to be held at Plymouth University on 22nd January 5.45-6pm start. Giving historical details but also the work required to develop the project and progress so far. There is no cost, but anyone wishing to go must call/email to reserve a place. I have already booked one so will be attending.

Link to page is below

http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/pages/dynamic.asp?page=events&eventID=8415&showEvent=1

I have just found out that there is a lecture to be held at Plymouth University on 22nd January 5.45-6pm start. Giving historical details but also the work required to develop the project and progress so far. There is no cost, but anyone wishing to go must call/email to reserve a place. I have already booked one so will be attending.

Link to page is below

http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/pages/dynamic.asp?page=events&eventID=8415&showEvent=1

Thanks Trainbuff for this report. It'd be nice if we get to see the rails relaid for 2018 - 50 years after closure.

Tavistock Viaduct Walk wall collapses

(http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/images/localworld/ugc-images/276309/Article/images/21153214/6156060-large.jpg) (http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/images/localworld/ugc-images/276309/Article/images/21153214/6156063-large.jpg)
Tavistock Viaduct Walk wall collapsed on Monday

Part of a property boundary wall near to the start of the Tavistock Viaduct Walk collapsed on Monday, May 26.

Police and West Devon Borough Council^s Building Control Team went along to investigate and cordoned off the area with tape and signs.

The path has been closed from the viaduct to Bolt House Close until further notice.

People are being asked to stay away from this section for their own safety while survey work and repairs are carried out.

The 200 metres of pathway from Crease Lane to Bolt House Close remains open along with the Viaduct itself and the cycleway to the north towards Old Exeter Road.

West Devon Borough Council would like to thank residents for their patience.

Consents would be sought in 2016/17, potentially allowing commencement of railway delivery in 2019/20

I know I shouldn't but: ^33M for 7 miles of railway equals under ^5M/mile - less than half the per-mile cost of the Borders Railway. Blimey, at that rate (even allowing ^50M to fix Meldon Viaduct) you could extend to Okehampton for less than ^130M...

Yes, behind all this there is a hand so dead it makes Alma Cogan look positively spritely. Dare we speak its name?

I do not think that would be a fair to extraplote that cost to the rest of the route to Okehampton. The Tavistock section is probably one of the easiest sections.  For example it ignores the obstructions in Tavistock itself. 

You also need to ask what sort of railway would be reinstated a single track branch line or something more substantial? And would that include improvements to the route from Crediton to Okehampton?

Following yesterday's meeting, quite a detailed report can be found here:

And doesn't it strike you as odd that there is no mention in that document of the possibility, however remote, of the whole line via Okehampton and Tavistock being rebuilt?

Can never understand how a double track formation, with plenty of room for a single track railway and a cycle way, can take so long to reopen. 2019??? Unbelievable Jeff ::) No wonder not everyone takes proposed English re openings that seriously as it stands, and I for one, want this one to really happen

This could equally have been posted on the inappropriate photo thread. Picture of a Pendolino on a 4 track electrified railway.  ???

Is this project DOA with the talk of reopening the whole route from tavistock to okehampton being discussed map by government.

The Tavistock scheme should be at GRIP 3 now, looking for GRIP 4 by the end of 2016.

The through route via Okehampton isn't in the GRIP process, and will only be rebuilt if there is a significant shift in strategy - which is not to say it won't happen, but one has to hope that this possibility won't blight the Tavistock scheme.

Having said that, the MetroWest project probably succeeded in delaying Portishead (which was at GRIP 3 as a standalone project) by a couple of years...

If the 'Northern Route' were reopened, wouldn't it involve extensive rework to the Tavistock section to get it up to main line standard? I'm guessing they'd have to close it for what could be an extended period while this was done.

P.S. PHD, eh? Do you have access to informed sources, or is that a guess?

P.S. PHD, eh? Do you have access to informed sources, or is that a guess?

[I'm struggling with Corsham.

Hedging my bets! I will also take a punt on AVG, ASD, PLL, SLF, and HRF. I'm struggling with Corsham.

YEY or NOW?

AVG - ?

Damn. More delay! Maybe Bovis are holding out to see if a Government will commit to the entire line through Okehampton being opened so that they can reduce their costs?
Or am I just being cynical?

I've just been looking at the Planning Inspectorate Scoping Opinion, dated December 2014.  It's available at www.devon.gov.uk/tavistock-bere-alston-railway-and-trails

This says construction would commence early 2020 and last 2-3 years for the three phases of the construction listed.

Isn't that a further substantial move back in the timetable?

2.2. Sources of change - railway re-instatement
...
Construction phasing
2.2.2. Construction of the railway is likely to occur in three phases:
  Phase
    1. Pre-construction (site readying, clearance, ecological mitigation) Approx. 1 year
    2. Construction Approx. 1-2 years
    3. Operation Permanent
2.2.3. Pre-construction is anticipated to commence early in 2020.

It's a local line for local people. ;) :P ;D

(http://www.betternation.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/localshop1.jpg)

This scheme has nothing to do with Dawlish, or resilience - it is simply an extension from Bere Alston to Tavistock, for local commuters.

It's a local line for local people. ;) :P ;D

(http://www.betternation.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/localshop1.jpg)