Great Western Coffee Shop

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/club55

Scotrail are re-opening Club 55 from 17th January to 31st March 2011.   Are there any plans / dates for Great Western to do so?

I flippin hope not! was a disaster, trains full and standing with blue rinse in first class while people holding ^300 first class open tickets had to stand!

saga louts abusing it.
Need to make better restrictions and also make it quota controlled.

Hear hear!! And what numpty let it go on for so long, still people travelling on it over xmas! Never really thought that one through eh?

Hmm.  Do I detect just a suggestion that some staff were not very impressed with the results of the most recent offer, then?   :o ::) ;D

Good promotion - badly done - should have had more restrictions.

Particularly morning restrictions.

Wasn't the promotion on Off-Peak tickets only, anyway?

I reckon that the other First TOCs were forced to accept the offer from Group HQ at Aberdeen.

There was allegedly restrictions on morning tickets, but as it was not briefed to most staff the saga louts (who are not all as innocent as they seem) got away with it.

Needs to be a maximum number allowed on each fully off peak train.
Needs to be barred before 10am AT ANY STATION (like the Network Card).
Needs to be barred on ANY train which has departed from London Terminals between 16:00 and 20:00.
No further discounts allowed. Sorry you want more discount with you senior railcard? Bloody hell you've already got first class for next to nothing.
No break of journey allowed, no split tickets, no loopholes, etc etc.
Break the rules and we'll sting you for full SOS/FOS.

Oh and yes, most staff not impressed with recent offer.

Then I hope the 'most staff' who were not impressed with the offer direct their complaints to management, rather than direct their ire at those who took advantage of the offer. As for specific rules being 'loopholed' then, again the fault lies with the industry, not the passenger.

Comments such as 'saga louts' and 'blue rinse' don't really endear me to the staff point of view on this one, I'm afraid.

Oh don't worry I have already sent my 'comments' to Revenue Development people within FGW, but I suspect FGW has no say in this offer, considering it more than likely comes from Group HQ.

My understanding is TPE led the promotion this time round. The only morning restriction on FGW was for arriving into London.

Needs to be a blanket restriction in morning on it.

Last time was better as restrictions were same as the SVR

If they do it again - I think it should be restricted similar to a SSR

I think if they bring it in again like the last time then lots of staff will probably walk out! The "customers" who took advantage of it last time certainly TOOK advantage! just because they're old it doesn't mean they don't take the p**s!

I believe a HUGE amount of complaints from staff were forwarded to Mr Hopwood!

Nobody was taking the p**s what was happening was a demonstartion of just how many passengers the railway can attract if the fares are right.

The fact that the railways can't cope with that level of travel is down to stupid government policies in particular underinvestment in rolling stock.

As an ex railwayman I know passengers are a bl*** nuisance but just think of how much extra money poured into the coffers.

OK who has the greatest 'right' to a seat?
(And before you say, I know no one has a guaranteed seat in accordance with NRCoC, unless reserved.)

A weekly first class season ticket holder who's paid a few hundred quid, (and more than likely even more.)
or a Club 55 first ticket at ^35?

I opened this thread asking whether "Club 55" will be running again this winter - and I'm surprised at how negative the staff reaction is.

It seems a very good way to get more people onto trains who might otherwise have driven by car or have not travelled at all - a step towards a return of "the age of the train".  And it appears to have worked - it brought in more customers; personally, I'm now 'fortunate' enough to be able to use it, for example.  It showed me new routes, it had me on the train where otherwise I would have been driving, and it's convinced me to make a higher proportion of my journeys by rail in the future.

Let's look at the implicit suggestion of it being "bargain basement" travel.  I recall a recent (Mark Hopwood?) interview where he quoted that the average passenger pays 19p per mile to travel on FGW.  Now take a 35 pound "Club 55" ticket for a journey of 100 miles ... and you're looking at 17.5p per mile.  That doesn't strike me as the lowest of the low fares.

I'm seeing suggestions of rafts of extra restrictions, quotas, etc ... ouch.   That strikes me as taking a rail fare system that's already overcomplex and adding a further series of complexities to it.  One of the great thinks I think you need in anything you're selling is to have it understandable to the people to whom you're selling it.  And if you fail to do that, or if you have smallprint which catches people out later ("Sorry - there's a full quota of Club55s already on board this 13:29 train to Brighton.  Try again tomorrow" [trying to use Club 55 Dilton Marsh to Brighton])  you're likely to do more harm than good.

We should celebrate the success that the extra traffic really is; there may be a case for reserving a 1st compartment or two for "full fare only".  And if something could be done to have the trains routinely very busy and not just during the promotion, what a wonderful step for the rail industry as a whole - helping to secure its future by use, and its revenue stream by income it would not otherwise have received.  A forward looking industry should revel in an increase in business and take steps to make the new customers loyal and repeating (and perhaps generating more income per journey away from the quieter winter), and not grumble at the extra work they bring for the staff, who may feel that their jobs would be much easier if there weren't customers around at all.

But don't allow offfers in peak time!

I'm reliably informed that Club 55 will be returning to Arriva Trains Wales from 9th January. Details have been loaded into retail systems, but, as yet, ATW haven't started advertising it on their website.

From a TOC staff member, posted on another forum:

They were taking the preverbial not by using the tickets but by blatently ignoring the very few restrictions imposed! It was a pointless scheme as it wont have attracted any new customers as they will never be back unless there is a similar offer, it may have actually been damaging as the people under 55 who had turned up on a whim and pay for walk up fares were stood in the vestibules!

I thought I would add a few points of my own.

1.  Staff were poorly informed.  I did not receive a brief until about 3 weeks after the promotion had started.  Ticket office were not well briefed as they assumed that the restriction on use was the same as off peak and were selling tickets for travel on the 1606 1615 from pad etc.  This caused problems for on train staff who were trying to enforce the restricitons.

2.  There were some Friday only restriction on west country services coming out of paddington.  Not valid on 1406, 1506 but again these were not shown in the leaflet so caused problems for on train staff.

3. Believe it or not the fares were hidden away in the advantix machine used by on board staff.  when we sell a ticket on board we are usually only given the walk up fares available for that route.  This is sensible as we cannot sell advance fares so there is no need for us to see them.  However  that was where most of the Club 55 fares were hidden !  Not knowing this many staff could not sell the tickets which did not go down too well with the customers.

4. To be honest the price was too cheap on the long distance services to the west country.  As posted here towards the end of the offer as word of mouth got around many services to and from penzance were full and standing in first class.

Hear hear! I believe one of the main periods that caused problems was the half term time in October. Full and sanding in both directions from Penzance - Pad. I actually witnessed 'little old ladies' who had'nt bothered to reserve a seat in standard being ushered to first class by the T.M only to then find he was asking someone to give up their seat for her! I think it was ^25 return end to end (less with a railcard) and no seat reservation necessary. This caused all sorts of problems! Too right if you have paid 200 - 300 for first class and then you hav'nt got a seat because of someone like this!

The cost vs seat argument is a little spurious, whether this offer was available or not. Most ticket types do not guarantee you a seat. At least a 1st class ticket holder is entitled to a refund, if they have to stand for more than 20mins, of the difference between their fare and the equivalent Standard fare, for the part of the journey affected.

If you've paid ^200-^300 for your ticket and haven't made a reservation then you have no more right to a seat than any other passenger, be they Club 55, with a season, using a railcard, on a BritRail pass, an ALR, a child and so on.

Of course we could have 'full fare' only in First Class on certain services. But then, where would the off-duty staff sit?

We'd still sit in there! After all the TM can relax the rules as its their train, and anyhow most of us have upgrade boxes, and some lucky people even have First Class perks!

  I do not think you can fault the idea of club 55, from a business point of view.

  Attract 'new customers' to the railway during a 'quiet' time of the year, filling empty seats.

  Actually in my small part of FGW land, their are not that many empty seats.

Club 55 is in principal a good way to fill otherwise empty seats on lighty loaded off peak services.However in my own neck of the woods, Devon and Cornwall, severe overcrowding occured in Autumn 2010 because Club 55 was available on already busy services like the 0844 and 1000 Penzance/Paddington services.The ^40 First class(^32 with a rail card ) was simply too good value.Club 55 needs to be better targeted next and more realistically priced to actual demand,perhaps a two tier pricing structure to encourage use on quiter services.

That was the whole problem, there were hardly any empty seats before!

Would the Club 55 offer not be better if run as an Advance type of ticket?  That way, the tickets could be quota controlled to ensure services don't end up too busy.

The Arriva Trains Wales offer is now on their website:

http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/club55/

I had certainly not expected to generate such a strong reaction when I initially asked the question ... which hasn't actually been answered, but which looks like it's a "no" - although it *will* be running in Wales and Scotland.

Super-tm
Excellent points, all of these - showing some of the issues with the scheme.   Some of the other criticisms of the scheme - alas - seemed to go rather over the top;  I can point to additional rail use made as a result of the scheme, after the scheme ended, and so at a different price - business which would otherwise have been lost to road transport.   So "won't have attracted any new customers" is downright wrong.  I'm minded of the graph I saw in a recent DfT report (oh help - I should have noted my source exactly) showing rail journeys made by age, and how women seem to move away from train travel at about the age of 45, and men from 55.   And on that basis, Club 55 looks like a tuned targetting of a sector which is well identified.  What a shame if this sector isn't to be encouraged in the South West, be it due to specific problems with the scheme that was tried in the area, or the inability of the services that can be provided to cope with the business.

It would appear that FGW have actively said 'no' to being included in ATW's latest standalone Club 55 offer. Many other TOCs bordering ATW are allowing add-on fares to/from destinations on their networks. You can even get as far as Marylebone with Wrexham & Shropshire! Although that is understandable seeing as W&S and ATW are both now owned by the same German outfit!

http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/Templates/Content.aspx?pageid=383

The last time ATW ran a standalone Club 55 promotion (as opposed to the most recent, almost countrywide, offer) journeys to/from many FGW destinations were permitted on payment of a supplement. ATW appear to have re-used the map from their last standalone offer as they still show FGW destinations.

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/atw55.jpg)

 ::)

Club 55 also available again north of the border:

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/club55

Yes, there have been a lot of negative views about Club 55 on this thread.
As a satisfied passenger, may I comment?

I travellef from Guildford to Truro - a return day trip - to have a brief lunch with a relative I had not been able to meet for 20 years. It was rather wonderful for both of us.

I travelled first class. Both there and back the first class was half empty, and it looked as if a considerable number of the passengers that were there were also on Club 55. I had a quite passable cooked breakfast on the way out and the attention of the wine steward on the way back. All profit to FGW, as well as pleasure for me.

I would not have gone had I to pay the ^300 or so basic first class fare. For a day out, that is in direct competition with a ride on the steam hauled Orient Express. Nor would I attempt that particular journey second class, as the high density seating blocks out most of the passing view. Ten hours reading [again] 'Pride and Prejudice' is not much of a day out.

My only cavil is, as many above have commented, the difficulty of finding out exactly what the travel restrictions are. It took a week to get a confident answer from Enquiries, involving some High Official at Paddington then on holiday, as to whether the ticket would be valid on the 07:57 going west from Reading - an important criterion if one is to get to Truro for lunch. No commercial reason, it emerged, why it should not be valid - I was surprised to find how empty the first class was on what should be a significant business train.

But difficulty over finding out what travel restrictions apply is pretty general, and I do not pick out FGW for this. A planned journey last week into South London produced a wholly bizarre set of answers from  484950, and subsequently a supervisor who insisted on a telephone response rather than e-mail. It turned out that she simply did not know the answers [ ?not to be put in writing?], and suggested that I ask my local station. However we did agree that the two further answers given by the NatRail web site were both wrong, and she volunteered to have them corrected. My local station said "its a grey area, but this is what we usually sell".

So I am not very sympathetic towards the comments made by some professionals above about 'blue rinses' cheating the system. 

imac

the 0730 Padd-Pnz is a quite train at the best of times, I stand by my views, the 0844 and 1000 Pnz-Pad services were rammed to the gunwhales with c55's whilst passengers who had paid the full FC fare stood!

Thanks very much for posting such a detailed record of your journey, imac - and welcome to the Coffee Shop forum!  :)

I happen to share your concern at the lack of clear information about the validity of specific tickets: if the terms of those tickets aren't clear, to all and sundry - including FGW staff! - then those tickets just shouldn't be advertised for sale, in my view.

CfN.  :-X

Thankyou for two interesting replies from Vacman and Chris
Perhaps a few further words of explanation might be helpful?

Train Loading
Firstly I accept that other midweek trains going to Cornwall might be considerably fuller than the half-full First 07:57  from Reading that I caught. This early train is businessman's times and, as I said, it did surprise me. However I suppose if I had an appointment in Bristol I would nowadays probably drive down the motorway or train to Parkway.
For the return I caught the 14:41 from Truro. The First Class by the time I got off at Reading was a little bit over half full. Perhaps the later trains were fuller?

Ticket availability
Actually, the leaflet I picked up at the local station on Club 55 was, with hindsight, clear enough - for trains going west in the morning no restriction from Reading was listed. However I am aware of the 09:30 rule, and thought I had better double-check, since I did not want to cut across a rule hidden in a Notice I had not seen.
FGW Customer Services seemed a more likely point than 484950, as this was a FGW promotion. The first respondent said quite firmly that trains before 09:30 were not available. I re-read the leaflet, and phoned again. The second respondent said not available, read the leaflet, paused, said he was not sure, and offered to call back once he had contacted the High Official at Paddington. He did, after a week, and confirmed that the early train was available. A responsible action.
Vacman has now kindly confirmed that this train regularly runs half empty in First so the availability of Club 55 seems commercially sensible.

The second confusion concerned a joint journey my wife and myself proposed. The first question concerned the availability and use of a London multizone travelcard - this produced the multiple incorrect answers. The second concerned the correct extension ticket for extending the availability of a London Freedom Pass - this produced the multiple 'don't knows'. They are both pretty common tickets and issues and I was a little surprised.
In making these comments I am not knocking the enquiry and booking office people - they do seem to have a difficult task.

Now, I have a limited experience of reading legal documents, have high speed internet access, am moderately computer-literate, have, acquired through ages, a generalised knowledge of network rail, and have the time [most of the time] to 'suss things out'.
If I can't get correct answers reasonably quickly, what chance has the 'blue-rinse' lady?  Maybe some are 'trying it on' but I dare suggest that others could be simply confused.

Imac

Freedom Pass would have no impact on the Club 55 fare though as price would be the same.

If your job is to enforce the rules, and you spend a high proportion of your day looking for / dealing with people who break the rules, you may tend to start off by assuming the worst about everyone.  There have been occasions (and I'm referring wider here, and not to anyone who's posted in this thread) when an enforcer has - in my view - assumed that passengers are guilty of a deliberate attempt to defraud when they've got no such intent.   There are some over-55s who aren't very pleasant and can do a very good "try-on" act, feeding off the law-abiding, old-and-scatty reputation of the older generation, but the majority who are incorrectly ticketed are likely to be such because of a genuine error / lack of knowledge / delay on a previous leg.

I don't think the best solution is with the staff, who have a really tough job, nor is the solution to be so lax as to leave an open door for people who deliberately defraud the the system.   The real solution would be to fix the fare system - but that would mean sweeping out an awful lot of special deals and putting a lot of prices up dramatically (which would lead to some people being very annoyed for a very long time) while reducing a lot of prices (which would lead to some people being slightly pleased for a day or two when they learned of their 'luck') - and is a political hot potato than no-one wants to grab.

We've written a lot on this sort of subject here (as I'm sure you've noticed) so I won't go banging on further - however, it's also worth noting just how stressful it can be on the innocent passenger who finds him/herself at the receiving end of an inquisition. I've had customers who refused to join a train at our local station (where you buy tickets on the train) because they've read all the "MUST buy ahead" penalty fare stuff with its dire threats, and met others who have been threatened with the police because the train manager has got it wrong about which particular offpeak fares are valid on her train.  And in my own experience I was pulled up for walking through First Class on a standard class ticket (to give something to someone who I knew was there) ... yes, I was wrong;  I simply forgot the rule (and I conjecture that others would not have even known) ... and as you see it's still with me years later.

Looks like it's returning, starting on the 19th September, no more details at the mo.

So far, the only confirmed operator offering Club 55 this Autumn is Arriva Trains Wales:

http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/Templates/Content.aspx?pageid=383
http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/Club55TermsConditions/

Tickets will be available to purchase from 27th August 2011 for travel from 4th September until 14th December. ATW have again teamed up with neighbouring TOCs, offer through journey opportunities with special priced add-ons. Journeys to/from FGW-land have been included again this time round.

Rumours abound that First Group TOCs are also about to announce an Autumn Club 55, but I've not yet found any confirmed information online.

Any inside info from our FGW staff forum members....?

'twas in my mates Star(?) machine for travel after 19th sept, but only 1st class was showing so they're still playing with it probably...

Looks like the First Class freebies could be taking another hammering.  ;D

Club 55 is happening again - not sure of exact dates at the mo.

Hmm. I already get discounts from Saga - why can't I also get benefits from Club 55??  Pure age discrimination!  :o ::) ;D

Think I'll book some annual leave  :D

It would appear that the 1st Class offering for this autumn's Club 55 (confirmed as running after a call to FGW CS but they wouldn't tell me the start date) is to be quota controlled. Which will come as a relief to staff, season and full fare ticket holders.

The down side is that to free up seats for the Club 55 quota FGW have removed from sale the lower tiers* of 1st Advance fares on many (if not most) Inter City flows.

So what they give to one section of society they take from the rest. 

*On principal flows there are usually between 5 and 7 tiers of 1st Advance fares. I've checked a representative sample of flows for journeys beyond September 19th (the likely start date for Club 55) up to the current booking horizon and all were returning 1st Advances priced at either the 3rd or 4th lowest tier upward. The lowest 2 or 3 tiers are simply not available.

I'm relieved to hear that it's quota controlled but it's simply not fair that regular travellers under the age of 55 will now be penalised!

Fares for FGWs Club 55 are starting to appear in booking engines. (Well, East Coast has them.....)

It appears that the Club 55 prices are going to be ^20 Standard, ^35 First, for journeys short of the Network area. For example Swansea-Swindon, Penzance-Westbury. Same price applies for journeys wholly inside the Network area. For example Oxford-Paddington, Newbury-Slough. The Cotswold line has the lower price points from as far out as Pershore to Paddington. From Worcester Shrub Hill and beyond the higher Club 55 fares apply, as below.

For journeys from outside the Network area to inside the prices are ^35 Standard, ^55 First. For example Plymouth-Paddington, Cardiff-Reading, Hereford-Maidenhead.

For Disabled and Senior Railcard holders these prices are reduced by 21% to ^15.80 & ^27.65 Standard, ^27.65 & ^43.45 First.

Time restrictions appear similar to current Off Peaks (SVRs) except out of London/Reading where it looks like travel is barred between 1600-1930 which is almost the same as the Super Off Peak (SSR) bar.

---

E&OE. I've only gleaned this information from interrogating one booking engine. More official information will no doubt follow in the coming days....

Club 55 and other special offers SHOULD always be Quota controlled, maybe also ONLY avaiable through the Internet or by Telly Sales.

What is the point of cheap offers like Club 55 at a booking office window?

To many times I've been in Booking Halls to see someone enquire about tickets, and then walking out with Club 55 tickets, at a Fraction of the price they expected to Pay:
It's not NEW business to the Railway, more like the TOC's SHOOTING themselves in the foot.

This could potentially be counter productive if the lower tier first tickets are removed as these prices may be what attracts irregular travellers with comfort and reasonable prices. By all means I'm all for club 55 but when other tickets are cheaper tickets are sacrificed to accomodate this then it is relatively unfair to the majority considering a number of users will no doubt qualify for a senior citizens railcard offering lower priced travel anyway. Don't mean to sound like the older generation should not be allowed offers but would it not make sense to try attract younger people to the railway to get them to use it for a large number of years?

Edit: By younger people I mean anyone up to 50 who still have a relatively large amount of time potentially working so could be attracted to rail for means of commuting, work purpouses etc.

The National Rail Travel Survey has a very interesting graph (page 21) showing useage of trains by age and gender.  See here (http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/railways/nrtsupdate.pdf). Also see the table on pages 22 that sets out the data (though not by gender) in figures.

The age breaks chosen on the graph and table make it very difficult to read the data and compare ages - there's a 15-year category from 45 to 59, followed by a 5-year catergory from 60 to 64, making comparisons difficult.  And there's no break point at 55, making the data provided unclear except as a trigger for discussion as to the case for Club 55.  However, I'm sure that First and the other TOCs have their own survey figures which are more granular.

I note ...

* 26% of train users are in the 45 - 59 group, but only 3% in the 60 - 64 group and I speculate that the split might also be made as follows
   20 - 25 13%
   25 - 29 11.5%
   30 - 34 11.5%
   35 - 39 11%
   40 - 44 11%
   45 - 49 11%
   50 - 54 10%
   55 - 59 5%
   60 - 64 3%
   65 - 69 2%
(I have split out other combined groups too on a best estimate).

* Trips by female passengers drop off significantly from the 25 - 34 group to the 35 - 44 group and only change a little from the 35 - 44 group to the 45 - 59 group, even though that latter group covers a 50% wider age bracket.

It therefore seems appropriate within the marketing ethos / maximise income philospohy of commercial operation that encouragements should be made to retain the business of a group of people who are at a time of change in their lives which has historically resulted in a big drop in their rail travel. 

Readers may take the view:
(a) that the railways should encourage more income and useage in this way, and build / retain business from the older generations.
(b) that the railways have quite enough customers and shouldn't need to make effort for more, especially from those who dues to age may on average need more help / assistance / support.
(c) that a trip by train from "A" to "B" should cost everyone the same, just as a loaf of bread does

The evidence of NRTS suggests that Club 55 is a sensible step for view (a) and - to some extent - for view (c), where all we need now is a scheme for 25 to 55 British residents who don't travel with children or on one specific route. Then all the hotch-potch of schemes could be combined into one nice loyalty card ...

What about a Bahn Card!

http://www.bahn.com/i/view/DEU/en/prices/germany/bahncard.shtml (http://www.bahn.com/i/view/DEU/en/prices/germany/bahncard.shtml)

Bahn 50 is also cheaper  for Young People and Over 60s

You can order on line and print out a provisional card.

You can also collect Bonus Points.

Probably too simple for the UK.

Life isn't fair - all companies make offers like this to age-delimited groups....

Info from my source..
On sale from the 12th for travel from the 19th but will not be quota controlled, can be bought on day of travel, same as last year

Only in as much as the First Advsmce ticket quota dropped to accomodate sales of Club 55....

Club 55 website up and running.

http://www.club55.co.uk/

A welcome return to the stylised Turbostar with its wrong way round windscreen!

Valid in the seating section of the sleepers, both ways, says a staff update.

....and in the berths on payment of normal supplements

Only snag is it links to the FGW site to buy tickets and the option isnt listed on the railcards and discounts section.  Not that I qualify (yet)!

You need to enter journey details before you see the Club55 fares. They are special fares not a discount type.

Give it four and a half years and I'll try! ;D

Two and a half years to go for me - and I'm already trying (no clever comments, please!)  ;D

16^ years to go for me.  :P

Even after I entered the journey details, I'm still not being offered the Club 55 fares.

I tried entering a Worcester - Plymouth journey, but the booking engine won't sell me a Club 55 ticket because all of the journeys involve travelling on Cross Country.

If I try forcing a route via Westbury (ought to limit things to FGW, then I get an error message.


There's no way within the booking engine that I can restrict my journey to FGW services only - or no way that I can see.

Hmm, I've managed to force the booking engine to show a club55 ticket for Worcester - Plymouth and return for randomly selected dates. What are your journey dates and times out and return?

I tried Taplow Bath and the Club 55 fares were more than two singles for a day return!

The Club55 fares don't seem good value on short /medium legth journeys - but are on longer ones this time

Out Wed Oct 5 arriving at Plymouth by about 16:00. Return next day, any time.

Hmm, I'm now having problems getting the Club 55 fare for that journey out of the FGW booking engine. No matter, East Coast are quite happy to sell the fare, so I suggest you buy from them.

(http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/tt68/bignosemac/c55wof.jpg)

Note the selection in the red box. The journey options with 1 change are via Westbury, those with two changes are mostly change at Temple Meads and Taunton.

FGW can lose the sales commission if they're not prepared to adapt their booking engine to allow the fares to be sold.

Train manager on 07:57 Reading Penzance said our Club 55 toickets weren't valid on that train as it's Peak. Also said there were otherClub 55  with seat reservations. Didn't try to charge us, I think he realised that he may be wrong the seat reservations must have been booked with tickets, plus we would create a fuss.

Showed him printout of availability obtained from Taplow station. Definitely valid, comes up on Club 55 website!

I think the Train Manager got it wrong. That train is bookable for Club 55 for any weekday up until the promotion ends. Whilst the T&Cs state that some services out of Paddington to the west of England may be excluded, that applies mainly to Fridays. The fact that others with Club 55 had seat reservations would rather point to the offer being valid on that service.

I hope the TM wasn't chinging anybody for a new ticket. 

AFAIK The time restrictions from Paddington only apply in the afternoon and travelling from anywhere else, including Reading, on FGW is totally unrestricted

From the Club 55 FAQs (http://www.club55.co.uk/FAQs.aspx):


Still doesn't explain why eightf was told his ticket wasn't valid on a westbound morning service from Reading on a Thursday.

to be fair to the TM i think he thought as I believe Off Peaks aren't valid on this train Club 55 aren't either, but he didn't try to charge us again.

Tried to but my 'Club 55' ticket on the train yesterday and found the whole experience pants!!!

Arrived at Worle Station in good time to purchase ticket from the automated machine to find that the menu didn't include this option.

The 2 carriage service to BTM duly arrived, however the conductor was overwhelmed with the number of travellers heading into Bristol (standing from Yatton!). On arrival at BTM no one was positioned at the usual point by the exit barriers selling tickets and there were the customary long line of customers waiting to purchase or picking up tickets in the ticket hall area.

Boarded the service to London and decided to sit in carriage A asuming that this would be where the TM would start checking tickets etc, uneventful journey until we left Chippenham when the TM did came along, I explained that I wished to purchase a Club 55 return between Worle and London Paddington after a few minutes trying  to find the ticket on their machine I was told that they couldn't sell me one as the fare wasn't programmed in and that I could purchase a full cost ticket at ^59 and on arrival at Paddington I could seek a refund. I politely said no as it wasn't my fault that the ticket machine couldn't provide the ticket I required, I also said that I would be happy to pay on arrival in London as I was travelling back later in the day and that this ticket was the cheapest option for both the outward and return journey.

The TM agreed to go and find out more info (!), they returned a couple of minutes later and announced that I had 2 options, buy the ^59 ticket and seek a refund or get off the train at Swindon and purchase the required ticket.... Not wishing to hold-up the train by engaging in a  conversation with an individual who was clearly not going to budge on their 2 options I left the train at Swindon, went downstarirs and then had to engage with  the station barrier staff as to why I didn't have a ticket (they mentioned I might have to pay a penalty fare!!), before I was allowed to go to the ticket office to purchase a ticket to allow me to continue my journey. By the time all this had been sorted I was now running about 25 minutes late which meant that I missed meeting up with friends in London to continue our journey out to the delights of Billericay.

Bottom line - if FGW are going to run this sort of promotion, provide the means to deliver the tickets from portable ticket machines.....

Rant over 

That is unacceptable, Worle Wonder. You need to complain in the strongest possible terms to FGW.

Whilst you may have had more than 10 minutes at Bristol Temple Meads (by the way BRI not BTM  ;)) to buy the correct fare I can attest to the fact that it is often very busy in the booking hall on a Saturday morning. You wouldn't have been able to purchase Club 55 from a TVM anyway so would have to join the main queue for a ticket clerk. I've queued there for over 10 minutes in the past and add in the walk from and to the platforms, even 15 minutes may well not have been sufficient.

You should always buy your tickets at the earliest opportunity, including at interchange stations, but you need not delay your journey to do so. It's quite possible you may've missed the next service to Paddington, so I believe you were correct in boarding.

Next is the behaviour of the TM on the service to Paddington. If what you say is an accurate account then you should not have been required to alight at Swindon and delay your journey. Club 55 fares are in Avantix machines and it is not your fault if a staff member cannot find the legitimate fare you require. I'm also not sure You would have got an immediate refund of the ^59 fare on arrival at Paddington. That would have to be dealt with by filling out a refund form. A ticket office cannot, I believe, refund a ticket it hasn't sold. (paging Ollie!)

So, as I said, you need to complain to FGW. http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/ContactUs.aspx
 

Many thanks for that follow-up, BNM ... I had a note down to follow up in a similar vein this evening.

Unless there has been a regime change in the last 18 months, you would NOT have got a refund of the 59 pounds at Paddington.   I note you were told to "seek" a refund there.   I've been similarly told to seek such a refund in a somewhat similar circumstance and when I did the seeking I was told it wasn't possible that late in the game because I'd already travelled on the ticket.  Perhaps we had the same Train Manager!

With so many people avoiding payment or seeking to avoid payment, and with a fare system which is (I feel) overcomplex, it's all too easy for the people who are just trying to do the right thing to get inconvenienced, delayed  and even threatened when that simply should not happen.  Personally, I blame the system's flaws rather than the staff who with rare exceptions are doing their very best and outside the times when they're overworked and overcomplicated do a fantastic job in some difficult circumstances sometimes.

You're right. The ticket office can process a refund request but it wouldn't be an instant refund. You're also right that club 55 tickets are in the Avantix machine. The operator needs to press the 'all' button to display secondary fares. Club 55 are listed as 55S and 55F for standard and first class respectively.

Thanks to all for the advice.

Indeed I will follow-up with FGW.....

I might just need to do the jouney again this Saturday, if I dont get my tickets before I travel what is the 'sequence' that the conductor/train Manager needs to follow on his machine to to find the fare please?

He just goes into 'fares' selects the journey and there's a button on the bottom of the screen that says 'all' which brings up all the fares, not just the primary ones. It's 55f and 55s for the club 55 tickets. Bob's your uncle etc.

Regret late replying due to being away - but that is right, ticket office can take the refund in, but with on train issues it is unlikely they will be the ones to pay it out straight away.

Thanks, Ollie!  ;)

For this winter, it looks like Club 55 is only available in certain countries of the United Kingdom:

Scotland, 16 Jan to 31 March
http://www.scotrail.co.uk/club55

Wales, 8th March to 28th March
http://arrivatrainswales.co.uk/Club55/

England - NOT AVAILBLE?

Doesn't make it look quite so united ...and a bit of a "postcode lottery".

Does anyone have any inside info on the future of Club 55. I see it is running in Scotland again, and I got surveyed last week by FGW as a past CLub 55 user - but no sign of a new Club 55 for FGW as yet. Any news?

First off, welcome to the Coffee Shop, iant.  :D

In the past couple of years First Great Western have only run a Club 55 promotion once a year from September to November. This has been in conjunction with other First Group TOCs (First TransPennine Express, First Hull Trains, First Capital Connect and First ScotRail). Arriva Trains Wales also run Club 55 at the same time.

Additionally, First ScotRail (alone of the First Group TOCs) and Arriva Trains Wales, run Club 55 promotions in the Jan-March period.

Based on recent history the next First Great Western Club 55 is likely to be from September 2012.

The current Arriva Trains Wales Club 55 (see http://arrivatrainswales.co.uk/Club55/) promotion does offer some good journey opportunites to destinations outside of their area, thanks to add on fares for use with adjoining TOCs. Sadly though, there no add-ons into FGW land, which used to be the case in previous years.

Here's the first news from Scotland ... anything for FGW yet?

http://www.thedrum.co.uk/news/2012/08/17/scotrail-set-introduce-first-tv-ad-club-55-tickets?

Nothing advised about in FGW land..

Fingers crossed it stays that way!

Why don't you want to encourage rail travel in the quite months?

Any sign of Club 55 this Autumn in FGW land?

No. We will not be doing Club 55 this year. But it will be reviewed for next year.

Thanks very much for that confirmation, Ollie - but any chance of us knowing the official reasoning behind that decision?

I don't have full details Chris sorry. AFAIK the only First Group TOC that has done Club 55 this time round is ScotRail? As each First Group franchise serves different markets the promotions that suit will vary. Despite Club 55 not running it is still possible to get good value fares. e.g ^15 Paddington to Penzance Advance single. (1/3 off with railcard).

Arriva Trains (Wales) Club 55 is available at present - until 9th December and then from 6th January to 29th March 2013 - see http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/Club55/FAQs/ .

If Club 55 is regarded as being a marketing promotion (tempting customers to try at a cheap price, and then buy again in the future), then it could be a sound financial decison of FGW not to run it for the final (?) year of the franchise (speculation). Scotrail runs a further 15 months - to November 2014.  Not sure about TransPennine - Spring 2014? Arriva's Wales franchise runs to 2018, with plenty of time to see returning year-round travel from the (currenly) 55 to 59 agegroup.  And of course the balance / metrics could differ in the spring, and could differ again if there are extensions to the franchise because of the current pause.

Even from FGW land, those of us who are disqualified from any of the railcard products, but are over 55, can take advantage of the Arriva trains offering in certain circumstances.  I'm planning a midweek break on the Welsh coast in March - to drive, or to train?  At current prices, it's going to cost me:
EITHER 19 pounds return, Melksham to Newport + 17 pounds return, Newport to Penhelig, Club 55 = 36 pounds
OR ... 149 pounds return, Melksham to Penhelig
And, yes, there's an abundance of other special products too as Ollie reminds us - almost overwhelming at times!

No Club Coffin Dodger this year, (and before anyone starts griping at that I am 60 myself).  Far less outlay on First Class complimentary snacks, far fewer confused passengers lumbering around with bags they can't carry and far fewer passengers asking if the train stops at Penzance.  Heaven!

From  GetReading. (http://www.getreading.co.uk)

The unfortunate choice of advert which was served up with this story....

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/club55.png)

Far less income from people who would not otherwise have travelled.


Far more people (like your mum and dad perhaps) stuck bored in their homes rather then enjoying a few days away


Err .. perhaps not a bad question. I can't recall the last time a train called at my local station that also stopped at Penzance!  :D


Depends how you look at it ... I find it really fabulous introducing rail travel to people who've never used the train before, or haven't done so for many years.

Back for First in Scotland later this week.  Will it be back for First in the West of England too?

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/club55-insight-may

Well I was not so keen on paying the full first class fare and then being expected to stand by those only a few years older than me who had paid very much less.

Having just turned 55 a few weeks ago, I'm quite keen to see it reinstated and enjoy what is, as far as I'm aware, the first and only "privilege" an employed white able-bodied middle-class male is eligible for between attaining maturity* and the ever diminishing pensionable age.

I completely understand that I'm very much in the minority with this view, however

*agreed there is some debate over whether this has actually occurred in my case

I'm with you Phil.  Although I am now able to take advantage of the Senior Rail Card, for years I resented not being able to take advantage of any kind of discounted travel on the UK railways and I actually did not use the trains for anything other than travelling to London on my annual holiday and an occasional rover ticket.  It was better value to go abroad and use the Swiss railways!

However, a small concession now and again can encourage people to 'rediscover' trains and boost income.  It is a shame that some posters associated being 55 as the age at which one can no longer carry bags and only after that age does one wish to seek reassurance from staff that you are on the right train.  I believe we must try not to lump all young/old/disabled/blind/deaf/etc people into streotypical caricatures (and I'm sure I can be guilty of this from time to time).

You are already well into the eligibility period for the Sun Life Over 50 Plan as touted by Sir Michael Parkinson, most often on Channel 4 during episodes of Countdown and Deal or No Deal. Don't forget - you get a Parker pen just for applying.

Oh, and there's the various benefits and offers available from the Saga Group.  :P ;) ;D

Don't start me off on those Over 50 plans....  get reminded about them too often!!  ;D

Oh believe me, I applied to RIAS, Saga and everyone else I could think of once I passed 50 in order to get the cheaper car insurance I was promised by the ads.

But, no. Apparently the old Land Rover that I drive is classified as a "van", and as such is exempt from any offers available to older drivers. Grrr.

Sorry, straying off topic there I know...

What makes a cliff more dangerous is the relatively long sudden drop from top to bottom or - when Club 55 is running - the sudden change in fares from aged 54 and three quarters to 55 and a quarter.

Many posters have suggested that the Club 55 ticket should not be provided - thus removing this dangerous cliff.   But how about removing the long drop by tackling it the other way - lowering the top of the hill?  There are so many other dangerous cliffs off the top on this top-priced hill; there are green and pleasant pastures for the familiy, for the forces, for children, for the disabled, for people who live in the South East (yeah, right - the standard of living there makes them really deserving of special treatment!), for people who travel the same route numerous times per week, for staff, for people who are not UK residents.   

Fix so many of those by offering products - perhaps with a somewhat lower discount than other railcards - an "anyone" card, where the single criterion is an ability to fund the purchase.  You'll increase offpeak ridership and (staff members here please note), you may do so with people who won't require quite so much customer service.

Typically, I travel whether or not club 55 is running.  But if it's running, I'm more likely to use the train and less likely to drive.   This week, I've decided that 2 x 96 pounds isn't on for trips to Oxford, and I've driven and am staying.   I know I could have save a bit with splits and perhaps singles.  And I also know that at 15 or 20 pounds return per day, I would probably have occupied a seat in a train which will be otherwise unoccupied. P.S. The journey is 60 miles, so the 96 pound fare is 80p per mile.

I am signed up for offers from Arriva Trains and have just received an email from them advertising their Club 55 as being available. However, the days it is available is from September 6th to November 1st, so they are just letting those who have opted to be told about it one and a half months after the offer started and just two weeks before it finishes! >:(

Geeze ... you sometimes wonder at offers that are available but not publicised.   

Mind you, I recall from summer 2011 getting loads of sh*t from potential customers who had missed our Weymouth Sunday specials because we had only done limited publicity.   A number of people took me to one side - not realising that I was the one controlling how much we advertised, and told me what our poor job our publicity person had done ... odd feeling was that.   Funny thing though - the trains were at maximum length (and longer!) and packed to full, standing, and uncomfortable every Sunday; the decision to limit promotion was done to limit demand to supply. Perhaps the same thing in Wales?   Busy trains until now, but they're a bit quieter as we draw into autumn to more publicity works.  Just a thought?


Reminds me to tell members I saw Club 50 advertised in Scottish trains last week
https://www.scotrail.co.uk/offers/club50

From experience of using the Newport to Holyhead line now and again, it is usually busier during half term, i.e. next week, than in preceding weeks.

You were unfortunate re Club 55 emails. I got one from ATW at its start

From the T&Cs

"You may be asked to show proof of age"

That would cheer me up so much.
 ;D

Have just checked my emails from ATW. I have received one other since the offer started, on Sept 17th, but it made no mention of Club 55. It seems odd if they are only sending publicity about the offer to certain selected individuals.

We have a friend traveling from Anglesey to visit us today. Had she known of the offer (I would have told her if I had known) she could have saved about £40 on her tickets.

I've seen leaflets at Cardiff Central & a poster a couple of weeks ago too, so it sound as though marketing has been patchy. Always worth checking websites at Club 55-times-pf-year-though

When I checked at the beginning of this month I could find no mention on the ATW web site

Hi All,

Club 55 is back, up and running till 3rd March 2018, now £27 but no extra for travel on a Friday, so I can tell.

Basset

Is that the grown up version of Britvic 55, or Club 18-30?

No a junior version of SAGA.

Shame its not valid on their Ranger/Rover fares.....

Given my comments late last year, for the record I did receive an email from Arriva Wales about this this time, which I'm very pleased about as we want to make use of it in February.

Do anyone have a link for this? Don't know anything about it but if 55 refers to the minimum qualifying years then I should be able to produce the proof of age that will undoubtedly be asked of me!

See tge front page of the ATW website