Great Western Coffee Shop

I am booked to travel from Chesterfield to Newton Abbot on the 12:06 Crosscountry service on the Royal Wedding Bank Holiday (29th April). I am interested to find out whether I will get a Voyager or an HST. Looking at the booked seat I have been given (seat 6 coach A - window seat in First Class) and checking CrossCountry's online train seating plans, it would seem to suggest the service will be run by an HST.

Would anyone on here be able to confirm? (I understand if it's probably a little early at the moment!) I don't know whether XC have more Voyagers than HSTs but whenever I've been down in Devon I'm sure I've seen more XC Voyagers than HSTs.

According to the booking engine, you are indeed booked onto one of CrossCountry's HST sets.

CrossCountry only have 5 HST sets versus 57 Vomiter units!

Ha! What are the odds!  ;D

Will be interesting to see if they stick to their promise and an HST is scheduled for that trip!

The odds are better than you might think, based on the numbers 'BNM'' posted.

If you divide the main XC network into four routes, ie  Scotland/NE - Devon/Cornwall, Man Picc - Bristol, Man Picc - Bournemouth, and Newcastle - Reading, their Voyagers go everywhere, but the HSTs only do the first route. 

Then there are four southbound to Plymouth in the morning, and four northbound from Plymouth in the afternoon - so if your journey fits those times of day it'll usually be about 50/50, I think.  Furthermore, the services that are formed of HSTs are not random, they are the same every day, as shown in FGWs timetable books (but not XC's)...  :(

Paul

So, at the moment, XC have four daily diagrams for their five HST sets?  This is good news - I thought during the week a few were being left in the sidings?

Current Mon-Fri diagrams here:

http://www.thejunction.org.uk/diagr.html

Ah... didn't realise that! Until I looked into my seating/coach allocation I had assumed it would probably be a Voyager, but would be dependant on what was available set-wise on the day, though I do remember FGW always used to indicate Adelante services in their timetable and EMT currently show when Meridian trains are to be used.

It changed in December - some people reckon because of the Southampton extensions, but I reckon that single unit per day requirement was met by no longer running a mid-day double Voyager on the Man - Bournemouth service.  Whatever the reason, they'll definitely all be needed from the May TT change, as the transfer of most Edinburgh - Glasgow ECML services to XC also requires more Voyagers.

Paul

While you might not want to proceed with the booking through the cross country website, I once used it to look at the seating layout on a particular service by pretending I was going to make a booking, that confirmed the service I was contemplating was a HST.
Admitdely the CrossCountry seat selection part of the website isn't the most reliable as sometimes it just simply won't load but when it does you can see whether it is a 4 car voyager or something else.
I suspect the fifth car is always missing because it is not reservable in case a Voyager substitutes for a Super Voyager. Also I've never tried booking on a double set, do Cross Country allow reservations in coaches G onwards?

I should also explain I booked this journey through TheTrainLine rather than XC's site as I also needed to book a journey from NTA-PAD a few days later, but then I suppose I could have booked the whole lot through XC's site as it's the National Rail booking system.

Indeed you could have, and saved yourself booking, postage and card fees.  ;)

That's good news.  I thought it pretty scandalous on such a busy franchise that all available stock wasn't in daily service, and I'm sure that they've added some much needed capacity on the routes through the SW.  Doesn't stop me wincing when I see a 4-car Voyager turn up on one of the busier services from Bournemouth or for the 13:46 Southampton to Edinburgh on a Friday afternoon though!

Well I saved myself postage, by picking all my tickets up at Paddington station!   ;D :P

I always use the FGW site for tickets - they don't charge extra for anything.

Of course Cross Country aren't the only ones.  Lisa and I travelled on an early afternoon Chippenham to Paddington service on Sunday last ... a 125 that was so deparetly overcrowded when it pulled in that I wondered if we were going to be able to board, even though I had taken the precaution of booking seats.

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/125_overflow.jpg)

Bristol to London is only hourly on Sunday, and I calculate that means that 4 x HSTs are parked up rather than being in service.  South Wales to London is also only hourly, so that's a further 4 sets.  And the Cheltenhams don't start until very late in the day.  So by my working, that's at least 10 trains not in service at a time when overcrowding is rife, week in and week out.

Now here's the next leg of our journey:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/out_lplst.jpg)

Mark III carriages again, but rather better space, plenty of tables more comfortable seats, Wifi, and a half hourly service.  It's not all a one way street - these carriages looked a bit tired compared to the Chippenham to Paddington ones, and there were no power points at the seats.

I knew there was a problem with overcrowding on the Bristol-London line mid to late afternoon on a Sunday and that FGW are addressing this with an extra service, but I didn't know that this is now happening earlier in the afternoon as well. Sunday is becoming just like any other day of the week so maybe some TOCs need to look at the level of service that they are offering. Easier said than done of course in that you need staff to work the extra services with Sunday working being an issue between the unions and some TOCs.

You also need to factor in engineering work.

It is, sadly, just not possible: the idea of a 'seven day railway' is just that: an idea.  :(

As Chris points out, as well as staffing, there's the capacity issue.  The FGW main line has to operate as a 2-track railway between Didcot and London in order for engineering work to take place.  NR's much publicised 'seven day railway' programme (see: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20documents/StrategicBusinessPlan/Update/Move%20towards%20a%20seven%20day%20railway.pdf (http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20documents/StrategicBusinessPlan/Update/Move%20towards%20a%20seven%20day%20railway.pdf)) attempts to address that issue and is more than just an idea, as the WCML Sunday timetable will confirm.

Sadly for FGW and its passengers the GWML out of Paddington is only 4th on its list of priorities after the WCML (already complete), and the ECML from Kings Cross and GEML from Liverpool Street.  So, don't hold your breath for many more services any time soon - which is why a 6th or 7th standard class vehicle would be such a help on some HST sets.

Unfortunately they do, for general seat reservations when the single set is full and for specific requests, such as table / quiet carriage when these are already fully allocated on the first set. Unfortunately this causes an absolute nightmare when (as happened yesterday on the 1307 ex EDB- PLY that I was on) the double set is a single (8v4 yesterday - ABD-PNZ was stuck behind a failed EC north of Edinburgh, incoming double set split and one set ran off in the path of the standed unit). So not only do you have a set where every reservable seat is booked at some point in the journey, there was no unreserved coach as a 4car, oh and it was a Friday afternoon, passing through Birmingham in the evening peak.
Another problem occurs when a double voyager runs vice a HST or vice versa as the coach letters on each do not marry up for the transfer of seat reservations.

Travelling home last Thursday (17th) from a work meeting I ended up on the 1812 ex-BHM - PLY which turned out to be a double Voyager. I have no idea whether this is a standard arrangement in the current timetable or if it was the result of operational issues. The rear unit was detached at BRI but this was not announced to the passengers until immediately after departure from BPW.

That's normal, detached rear four form 2000 Bristol - wherever it goes

Hello from the USA...my first post on this forum.
This thread was quite interesting to me because in August my wife and I need to train from Edinburgh to Cardiff (preferred) or Bristol.  Crosscountry has a route with zero changes leaving at 1306 and arriving in Bristol @ 1943...when I use the XC website to start the booking process up to the point of being able to see seats...that service appears to be the hated Voyager and not a HST as least according to the seat maps I found at:
http://help.thetrainline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4234/~/cross-country-seating-maps
I have seen very few positive posts about the Voyager...
So my question is: how can I see which rolling stock is actually being used on a route without going "faking booking" every route.  And if that's not possible, what would be the suggested routing to get to Wales...Travel criteria:
Departure: Aug 12
Can't leave earlier than 1130
Will have a reasonable amount of luggage so would like to reduce changes to a minimum
1st class (the XC @ 1306 was also attractive because the advance purchase fare for 1st class was only 90 pounds)
Thanks in advance
Dan Foreman

Hi, Dan ... and welcome to the forum.

Edinburgh to Cardiff ... I would be very tempted to change at Crewe rather than Bristol.    That gives you a rather nice Pendelino for the majority of the journey and beautiful countryside most of the way - the West Coast line, and the Welsh Marches.   And looking at the 12:51 and 14:51, it's significantly faster too.

I have travelled in Voyagers from Scotland all the way south - they're not bad - just that most of us have a preference (love?) for the HST.  But the Crosscountry HSTs live up north and make a daily round trip to the South West, so they will be long gone by 11:30.

Fares ... I suspect you'll find the route I've suggested at a much lower price if you book Edinburgh to Crewe and Crewe to Cardiff separately.

The First Class in Voyagers is a lot better than travelling steerage.

I'd echo Grahame's comments about the view out of the window. If you go on the direct train, you will get to see the coast for the first hour or so until you're south of Alnmouth. Then you get the bridges at Newcastle and the Cathedral at Durham. But after that there's not a lot.

Travelling by way of Crewe you get mountain scenery (well - British mountain scenery) as far as Lancaster. And you do get a pretty run through the Marches (the border land between England and Wales) from Shrewsbury to Newport. But you will have to change at Crewe, and it won't be a same-platform change, though lifts are available. And there won't be First Class between Crewe and Cardiff.

There's a clickable plan of Crewe station at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_CRE/plan.html (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_CRE/plan.html). You will probably have to change from platform 5 to platform 6.

If you want less baggage hassle and more time either in Edinburgh or Cardiff and less time sitting on the train, there are also direct flights from Edinburgh to Cardiff. I don't know about the Edinburgh side of the journey but Cardiff is a short bus/taxi ride to the city centre.

Currently showing one way on August 12th with one checked bag for ^85 per passenger, flight time 1h35. Departures at 11.20 and 19.45.

www.cityjet.com (http://www.cityjet.com)

Thanks all for the excellent info!
I had looked @ EDB > CDF via CRE but ruled it out because of a tight connection (arrival CRE 1558 & departure 1608)...
That seemed a little tough with luggage, platform change, and possibility of a delay on EDB > CRE...but if I look at it
as 2 separate tickets there are other, less arduous, options to CDF...just no 1st class....So:
1. is Arriva economy as hated as XC economy?
2. is the Virgin 1251 from EDB > CRE the beloved Pandalino that's been mentioned?
I did look at the flight option (thanks for that) but we probably can't make the 1120 flight...we are disembarking from a sailing ship in Dundee and they said they can get us to the airport @ 1045....a bit tight for my liking...and the next flight is much later.  EasyJet flies from EDI to BRS (Bristol) but similar timing...can't make the morning and the next flight is much later in the day...would rather spend my down time on a pleasant train than an airport

I thought about the fight option as with the later flight you'd have the option of having the best part of a day in Edinburgh to explore, although you would of course have to find somewhere to store your luggage.

If you are alighting your ship in Dundee, you could catch a train from there, although National Rail indicate changes required at Glasgow (to a different station) and Crewe.

When you mention arriva standard class, if you are referring to arriva trains wales, as long as you can get a seat the trains are actually quite comfortable, with a decent amount of legroom, although luggage space is at something of a premium.

If I was doing this journey, which I regularly do down the East Coast before heading to the south coast, it's via London every time using East Coast Trains Edinburgh-London and First Great Western London-Cardiff. Easy for me to say however as I don't have a lot of luggage so can use the Underground. But a taxi from Kings Cross to Paddington won't cost a fortune but won't be a cheap as the Underground.

Some will disagree with me but my rule is services to/from London are the the best trains simply because they serve London.

I'd agree with you Timmer.  If you are lucky with advance tickets it need not be much more expensive - in fact on the odd occasion I have found it cheaper.

I like the EDB > KGX > CDF option....
How much time should I leave between sked. arrival @ King's Cross and departure @ PAD?

Would probably take the train that leaves EDB @ 1130 sked to arrive in KGX @ 1551.
We'd probably taxi to PAD.

I did wonder about the London transit option but for some reason chose not to mention it!

I would be inclined to allow yourself at least an hour if you want to have time not to rush and also if you need to use the facilities, buy some food etc before you leave Paddington. Also consider the effect of any traffic delays if your arrival time at Kings Cross coincides with the evening peak.

But better than anything, you'll get to experience the delights of First Great Western which is what this forum is all about!!  ;D

After inspecting google maps for journey times (about 15-20 mins by road), if you don't want to rush for your train I would tend leave an hour minimum if you are unfamiliar with Paddington station and perhaps up to 90 mins if you wanted to grab something to eat etc.

The Mad Bishop & Bear, above concourse, at Padd does decent beer and reasonable food. It even has departure boards so you can watch out for your train.

Can certainly vouch for the beer. Was in there a few hours ago supping their beer and watching Wimbledon (with subtitles).

Didn't dine today but they have a good range of bar snacks as well as full meals.

I have some comments to make on some of the suggestions.

1. While Pendolinos are better than Voyagers in most respects (largely due to the increased length of the unit, I suspect) their low windows aren't great for views. Coach D (I think) in a Virgin Super Voyager is much better for views, but I find the seats uncomfortable.

2. Arriva Trains Wales normally use class 175 units on the Manchester - Crewe - Cardiff - Carmarthen - Milford Haven route. These are quite comfortable and much better for views than most other UK rolling stock but only come in 2-car or 3-car sets, which often isn't enough on the Manchester - Cardiff leg (I was once a frequent user of one (I think the 15:30 off Manchester) which was very busy, particularly out of Crewe). Shame about the short length as they probably have the best standard class interior of any UK train (not quite perfection, but very nearly).

3. While the East Coast service (Edinburgh to London) has nice trains, better than either Pendolinos or Voyagers, the 'view' gets rather dull a bit before York (mile after mile of flat expanse).