Great Western Coffee Shop

Journey by Journey => Plymouth and Cornwall => Topic started by: woody on March 19, 2011, 18:34:35



Title: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: woody on March 19, 2011, 18:34:35
Dropped off my son at Plymouth station this afternoon to catch the 1615 Plymouth to Penzance back to Redruth.What are we greeted with,2x153s full and standing with the next Penzance train not until 1800 and this on a Saturday as well when hoardes of Cornish day trippers to Plymouth regularly start returning home.West of Exeter FGW are in danger of becoming an absolute joke.
 Once again I say "Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?"


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on March 19, 2011, 18:58:55
could be worse could be a single 153  :D, watch this and tell me if things have got better in the last 20 years
... im not sure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CCCKoo42pM


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: devon_metro on March 19, 2011, 20:50:11
Dropped off my son at Plymouth station this afternoon to catch the 1615 Plymouth to Penzance back to Redruth.What are we greeted with,2x153s full and standing with the next Penzance train not until 1800 and this on a Saturday as well when hoardes of Cornish day trippers to Plymouth regularly start returning home.West of Exeter FGW are in danger of becoming an absolute joke in the eyes of 'woody'
 Once again I say "Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?"


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: bobm on March 19, 2011, 21:01:44
They did invest in doubling part of the line in Cornwall recently but there certainly is a bit of a branch line feel sometimes west of the Royal Albert Bridge. Although I usually only get that far on a long distance train I've noticed the catering can be a bit patchy after Plymouth which is frustrating with two hours still to go to Penzance.


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: Brucey on March 19, 2011, 21:15:59
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CCCKoo42pM
Ah, the days of being able to open the door before coming to a halt!


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on March 19, 2011, 22:23:59
i noticed that they were even doing that on mk 2's


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: woody on March 20, 2011, 00:39:34
Dropped off my son at Plymouth station this afternoon to catch the 1615 Plymouth to Penzance back to Redruth.What are we greeted with,2x153s full and standing with the next Penzance train not until 1800 and this on a Saturday as well when hoardes of Cornish day trippers to Plymouth regularly start returning home.West of Exeter FGW are in danger of becoming an absolute joke in the eyes of 'woody'
 Once again I say "Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?"
Not just "in the eyes of Woody" mate I can assure you.Neither First nor Great was an expression Andrew Lloyd Webber once used to describe FGW.My remarks though are not aimed at FGW who in general have to make the best of a bad job,but rather the Dft which effectively runs our psuodo-privatised railway to the detriment of both taxpayer and passenger.


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: inspector_blakey on March 20, 2011, 03:01:16
i noticed that they were even doing that on mk 2's

Prior to secondary door locking being installed on the mark 2 fleet! It was a retro-fit in the early 1990s on both mark 2 and 3 stock.

Neither First nor Great was an expression Andrew Lloyd Webber once used to describe FGW.

Gosh, it must have taken him a while to come up with a sound bite that witty and original.


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: eightf48544 on March 20, 2011, 15:45:07


Woody says:

Once again I say "Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?"

I thinkl that's the problem DaFT have got they don't know either.

As he also says: My remarks though are not aimed at FGW who in general have to make the best of a bad job,but rather the Dft which effectively runs our psuodo-privatised railway to the detriment of both taxpayer and passenger.

On the one hand they want mainline services (from London) so they can get to their holiday cottages and their teenage children get to Newquay without being driven, but vaguely recognise that quite a lot of Cornish people seem to "like" travelling by train locally or at least no further than Plymouth.

Hence their dilemma ideally you would have an hourly fast and an hourly all (most) stations following it. Not sure how the timings work but i asumme that the stopper if it left 5 minutes after the fast (connection from London) could get to Penzance before the next fast. I any hour where there is isn't a London XC then perhaps a semifast serving more stations than the fast. Thus major stations would get 2 tph except the odd hour when they got 1 minor staions would get 1 tph unless they were very minor when ther might be 2 gap if semi doesn't stop.

However my plan would require too much stock and be considered a gross over provision. Better to underprovide and make money.


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: vacman on March 20, 2011, 22:02:26
Penzance-Plymouth really does need to be half hourly, it is a very busy line, even Truro-Plymouth would be a start!


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on March 20, 2011, 23:32:35
i don't believe frequency was the issue but capacity making every other hst none stop between penzance and plymouth and putting in a two hourly loco hauled plym to penzance stopping service would add faster london services from penzance and more capacity and better links for local shacks, it would also free up units for elsewhere

then again how much more could that line take capacity wise


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 20, 2011, 23:46:31
I've only travelled that way once, but when Ollie and I did our 'Cornwall branch line bash' to Falmouth, we were impressed with the loadings on the HSTs into and out of Cornwall beyond Plymouth.

I don't have an answer: I merely offer this observation.  :-X


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: Ollie on March 20, 2011, 23:51:51
I've only travelled that way once, but when Ollie and I did our 'Cornwall branch line bash' to Falmouth, we were impressed with the loadings on the HSTs into and out of Cornwall beyond Plymouth.

I don't have an answer: I merely offer this observation.  :-X
Branch line bash in the sense that we only did one :P

But yeah I would agree with Chris, the HST (both ways) had enough space to accomodate people.


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on March 20, 2011, 23:52:30
its a well used service but lets be honest its a very long journey and should at the very least have a trolly for coffee, i realise that when i did it that i did it out of choice and not because i had to travel down there but exeter to penzance on a 150 is not fun and even on a hst it seems to take forever  


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: vacman on March 23, 2011, 19:59:46
i don't believe frequency was the issue but capacity making every other hst none stop between penzance and plymouth and putting in a two hourly loco hauled plym to penzance stopping service would add faster london services from penzance and more capacity and better links for local shacks, it would also free up units for elsewhere

then again how much more could that line take capacity wise
Non stop Ply-Pnz? pointless, would at least need a Truro stop as Truro's footfall is over double that of Pnz!


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on March 23, 2011, 20:14:47
ok i did my usual, but is there any merit in what im saying?


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: bobm on March 23, 2011, 21:04:03
i don't believe frequency was the issue but capacity making every other hst none stop between penzance and plymouth and putting in a two hourly loco hauled plym to penzance stopping service would add faster london services from penzance and more capacity and better links for local shacks, it would also free up units for elsewhere

then again how much more could that line take capacity wise
Non stop Ply-Pnz? pointless, would at least need a Truro stop as Truro's footfall is over double that of Pnz!
With the speeds possible on most of the line in Cornwall I'm not sure missing stops would save all that much time.


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: LiskeardRich on March 24, 2011, 01:55:59
it now takes considerably longer to get to exeter from truro by train than to drive, also considerably more expensive,
Whenever i need to go up to london, it saves me money and time by driving to Exeter, parking at my relations 2 min walk from st davids, and doing it that way, the savings in the train fare are about double what it costs me to drive to exeter, and saves about 45mins at least off my journey time,


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: Umberleigh on March 24, 2011, 12:46:24
Had the pleasure of staying in the Travelling Post Office camping coach at St Germans last year (highly recommeneded!).

Dismayed to discover that 2-coach branchline dmus are being used for Plymouth to Penzance services. Throughout the week I was able to observe that these trains were uncomfortably packed with passengers on all but the most off-peak of off-peak services, not to mention the total lack of refreshments.

A journey of this length deserves rolling stock of the standard I often see at Castle Cary/Westbury (presumably on the Weymouth service?) i.e. 3-coach air-conditioned stock - and put a trolley on ffs.

My trip to Truro saw me stand on a crowded dmu for the short-ish hop up to Plymouth and then enjoy the luxury (!) of HST down to Truro, rather than a sardine experience on a direct stopping train.

Cornwall has been awash with EU funding (and quite rightly imho) so surely some of it could be diverted towards satisfactory rolling stock?


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: Andy on March 24, 2011, 16:13:19
I agree with Vacman that a non-stop service through Cornwall to Penzance would serve little purpose. With no huge urban agglomerations but a series of large-ish towns, Cornwall's settlement pattern is radically different from that to be found in much of England as illustrated by the footfall figures.

Does anyone think that reducing local traffic on the 'up-country' trains at peak times by adding a commuter service, e.g. Par-Penzance or Truro (Falmouth?)-Plymouth could help?


 



Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: The Grecian on March 24, 2011, 22:16:20
An off-peak day return from Truro to Exeter is only ^16.40 - hardly expensive and cheaper than driving. Although an off-peak return is ^32 and an Anytime Return is ^40 - not quite so cheap. Weymouth-Bristol trains are (or were) more commonly 2-car 150s than 3-car 158s, so it's not really any better on the whole than Plymouth-Penzance services, which do at least see a decent number of HSTs (and if you know much about the timetable you can work out which services are HSTs as it'll say they go to Paddington).

I wonder if there'd be much scope for an hourly Plymouth-Penzance calling at Liskeard, Bodmin Pway, St Austell, Truro, Redruth, Camborne, St Erth and Penzance every hour (and Par and Hayle every other hour), with a Plymouth-Newquay service calling at all stations every hour (or at least every 2 hours). But as it would involve sufficient trains and track capacity (and wouldn't be great for Newquay line passengers), it probably isn't likely.


Title: Re: Penzance to Plymouth-branch line or main line?
Post by: LiskeardRich on March 24, 2011, 23:53:15
An off-peak day return from Truro to Exeter is only ^16.40
correct, although for a return as i required from Truro to London Gatwick, at the times of my travel (1 week apart stupid times of the day) it saved me almost ^150 going from Exeter as opposed to Truro, [/quote]

I wonder if there'd be much scope for an hourly Plymouth-Penzance calling at Liskeard, Bodmin Pway, St Austell, Truro, Redruth, Camborne, St Erth and Penzance every hour (and Par and Hayle every other hour), with a Plymouth-Newquay service calling at all stations every hour (or at least every 2 hours). But as it would involve sufficient trains and track capacity (and wouldn't be great for Newquay line passengers), it probably isn't likely.

would Par needs a more frequent service than 2hourly for connections to the Newquay branch,



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