Great Western Coffee Shop

Probably old news but i've only just read that Stone is to recieve passenger services again as from December 2008! about time too!

Which stone is this?

I know of quite a few that lack passenger services that used to have them...

Yes and a "full" train service is due to return to Atherstone as well (timetable link below.)
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/wcml/wcms2008timetables/wcmsgoviatimetable

No evening service though , and only one train each way for Polesworth (link below.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polesworth_railway_station

No train service at all for the following stations near to Stone (links below.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton_Bridge_railway_station

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barlaston_railway_station

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedgwood_railway_station

I note that there is a DfT consultation currently being conducted on these timetables (link below.)
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/wcml/wcms2008timetables/wcmsbriefingpdf2

However , the outcome looks rather prejudged. Quote :

"The basic specification is fixed"

It's good to see trains serving these stations again! Melksham next!

Remind me where stone is?

Isn't it between Swindon and Gloucester?

It's here (http://www.multimap.com/maps/?hloc=GB|Stone#t=l&map=52.9057,-2.147|13|4&loc=GB:52.9057:-2.147:13|Stone|Stone,%20Staffordshire)


No. You're probably thinking of Stonehouse.

There is a Stone in Gloucestershire (near Bristol, here (http://www.multimap.com/maps/?hloc=GB|Stone#t=l&map=51.6565,-2.4571|13|4&loc=GB:51.6565:-2.4571:13|Stone|Stone,%20Gloucestershire)) but it doesn't have a railway running through it.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone,_Staffordshire

Stone in Staffordshire is a market town with a population about two thirds of that of Melksham - I know that because it's a service / situation I've been drawing comparisons with, and I've been in touch with a few people.

I congratulate the good people of that town - and I commend the Department for Transport in specifying a regular service throughout the day.  And I suggest that they should consider providing a service of the same frequency to serve the much larger town of Melksham.

You continually mention that there are x amount of people in Melksham, by no means does this mean all x of those people will use the train. What are road and bus connections like as if they are fairly decent then the train isn't worth the hastle. If Melksham was on the mainline it would be different, but it is not.

Am I right in thinking that Wessex boosted the timetable as a trail in faith that the service would be used. It was then withdrawn due to a lack of passengers. Feel free to flatter me with lots of fancy numbers but my understanding is that Melksham was given a service that wasn't used sufficiently and hence virtually removed. Simple if you ask me!

Obviously everyone who lives in a town wont use the train!!!!!!! imagine the whole 11000 population of St Ives trying to get on a 153!!

Melksham to Swindon by bus - 95 minutes. By train - 25 minutes.
Trowbridge to Swindon - express bus 95 minutes, train direct 35 minutes.
Salisbury to Chippenham - 2 hours by bus, 50 minutes by direct train.

Fair point about the population not being a measure of the number who travel - I agree with you and have looked into that carefully.  So have the country council, so have First - please have a look at the FOI documents I have posted and you'll see the details of what those expert parties consider to be an appropriate service level.  Actually, that's a more frequent service than we're campaiging for.

Please also bear in mind the whole of the TransWilts ridership / corridor, the SSCTs on the route, the RSS and other matters. 


You're almost right.  It was indeed boosted as a trial of faith. Statistics were then gathered within the first year of the new service (starting early 2002) and those statistics with an assumption of virtually no growth used to specify the service for 2007.  Actually, the service did grow in use.  Trains that were dreadfully underutilised in the first months that they were quietly introduced became much, much busier. Many was the 2005 / 2006  journey I made where the coach in the local train had more passengers in it that the coach on the express I changed to at Westbury or Swindon.

I'm talking on this subject this coming Saturday, where you'll be able to compare our TransWilts campaign with other campaigns, and also listen to one of the FGW directors speak.  There will be five other campaigners talking too.  The conference fee is only 12.50 if you would like to come along, or if you can't make it but would like me to go through the case with you one evening, you would be very welcome to drop by for an hour or two.

Conference URLs:
http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4281.0
http://www.railfuture.org.uk/tiki-index.php?page=Rail%20Users%20Conference

One of the things that I find really disheartening is that the service now is WORSE - far worse - than it was before 2001.  Sensible timings for a skeleton service have been replaced by virtually useless ones.   But then one of the things I find most heartening is that everyone is looking forward in the realisastion that the new service was one cut too far, and looking at the future of the transport corridor.  I look forward, Liam, to having the opportunity this weekend or at a future date to filling you in further - on the things that are the weaknesses and strengths of the case.

I wish somebody in the DfT would realise just how much damage they can do by changing Train Times.

There used to be an Early (06.30) Leicester-Peterborough service back in the 70's that loaded to about 15 from Leicester, 25 from Melton, 50 from Oakham and about 90 from Stamford.

However one year BR in it's Wisdom withdrew the early train leaving the first service at 07.40.

However at the Next Time Table change it (the 06.30) was put back, on the first day the reinstated train ran May 76 or 77 how many passengers travel to Peterborough, 100?, sorry less, 75 then, again less, give up?

ONE! that's how many (ME), My very own Train Leicester-Peterborough, was packed from Peterborough on towards Harwich, ran in times of Train that started at Peterborough, it took almost 2 years for passenger levels to climb back to the earllier train levels.
Okay changing Train Times around a Few Minutes doesn't have much effect, but Bu**** up services like this And Melksham and also NEWQUAY, it's FATAL or  WORSE PLANNED. Evil DfT?

You are right. It will take years for numbers to go up. But the Dft wouldn't wait, so they would axe the services down again!

Never such a true word spoken!

Melksham's services was hugely improved in 2001 - and over the following five years traffic grew hugely.   Of course, as the service rise was dramatic in 2001 it took a while for traffic to build up .... and before it had built up a number of traffic surveys were taken which (2002 figures!) were used as the basis for the 2004 Jacobs report which formed the basis of the 2007 service ... so of course it was based on a new service that was still gathering its market and pretty well.  We at Save the Train (http://www.savethetrain.org.uk) knew that all along.  But the powers that be used a growth figure of 0.8% in their calculations and, based on the low ticket sales figures of around 3000 per annum, specified 2 round trips a day. The ticket sales figure rose to 27000 before the service was completely revamped (back down) again in December 2006.

The 2006 revamp in essence withdrew all 10 services on the TransWilts and replaced them with 4 other services at "totally different" times. Here it is from the Melksham view:

The 05:52 (on which I have seen over 40 people) - WITHDRAWN
The 06:56 to Southampton was replaced by a train at 06:43 just to Westbury (the smallest change!)
The 07:43 to Swindon now runs at 07:17. Already an early train, it;s now far, far too early for commuters
The 09:12 which gave people the opportunity to commute to Melksham - WITHDRAWN
The 13:35 and 14:49 trains - ideal for early and part time workers and visitors - WITHDRAWN
The 17:12, a very popular London and commuter train out - WITHDRAWN
The 18:09 from Swindon - retimed OVER AN HOUR to 19:11, far too late for commuters
A new train provided at 19:50 to Swindon. Not sure of intended market!
The 21:33 to Swindon - WITHDRAWN.  Probably had been the least used train of the day
The 22:37 arrival from Swindon - a very useful "get home late" train - WITHDRAWN.

"Specification is two round trips a day"  Interestingly, we could have made very good use if we had retained, with a less that 10 minute change, the 07:43 and 09:12, and 17:12, 18:09 pairs.

This thread started on Stone.. It's very much a comparable town - been there too (it happens to have fond memories). I wish them well ... and wish we had a comparable service on the TransWilts to the one they're getting.   Let's see - an hourly Swindon to Salisbury would be great, perhaps as an extension of the London to Salisbury stopper?

As a matter of Interest how far is Melksham station from the town centre, also that of Stone.
Central Stations tend to be busier than out of town ones.

I think Stone Station (9miles 5chain from Stafford) used to have 4 platforms but only those on the Stafford line remain, the direct London Platforms dug up years ago

That 05.52 was always pretty busy!

I couldn't agree more with smokey. There is a post on this site from someone asking if it was feasible to commute from Yetminister to Bristol.

The answers were that at present it was, but watch out for timetable changes.

As the poor people in Stone and other places mentioned in this topic found to their cost just because you have had trains for donkeys years enabling you commute to & from the nearest big town. Don't bank on it being in the next timetable.

The other tragedy at Stone was that it was one of few stations to be renovated recently (from phots it looks good) then it loses it's train service. It's all to do with the stoppers getting in the way of teh Manchester Pendelinos and XC servces. Which is why Wedgewood, Barleston and Norton Bridge still won't get a service.

BR Rebuilt Norton Bridge when the line was electrified just for the stoppers. With an EMU there there is very little penalty on the Stone Stoke time  by stopping at BArleston and Wedgewood,

CANBER replied to this consultation and raised all the points mentioned above. We also suggested that the reopening of Etruria should be considered. This station was run down and closed despite new housing development taking place right next door to it at the time.

Its train services were suspended in May 2003 during the upgrade of the West Coast Main Line. Central Trains did not restart services to Etruria when the work was finished and continued with bustitution, although First North Western reintroduced a limited service, beyond what was contractually required. Full closure took place on 30 September 2005.

The WCML work meant that the line was realigned away from the platform leaving a large gap between platform and train. The cost of rectifying this amid the understandably plummeting passenger figures was the reason given by Former Transport Minister Derek Twigg for approving the closure (link below.)
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/passenger/stations/ministerialdecisionapproving3354

Here is the reply from the DfT to our consultation response :


Sorry, but I wasnt greatly encouraged by it.

Further changes afoot:

To re-open Wedgewood and Barlaston from The Stoke Sentinel (http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/plan-to-reopen-closed-wedgwood-or-barlaston-stations-railway-stations-back-on/story-29669124-detail/story.html).

Also from The Sentinel (http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/alsager-kidsgrove-and-stone-to-lose-direct-rail-link-to-london-eustion/story-29673565-detail/story.html?) plans for the London to Crewe via Stone and Stoke service to be diverted to run direct from Stafford to Crewe, with a new Birmingham to Crewe via Stoke service.  That would be the one in the previous paragraph and would mean that Alsager, Kidsgrove and Stone would loose their through London services.