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Journey by Journey => Chiltern Railways services => Topic started by: Btline on September 05, 2011, 23:50:09



Title: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on September 05, 2011, 23:50:09
As promised, here is a review of "The new way to get to London - Chiltern Railways!"

After an intense and nail biting set of engineering works, the Chiltern Mainline launched today, with commuters celebrating up and down the route. Upon boarding the 8.09am to Marylebone, audible gasps were heard when the list of stops was announced. Or should I say, LACK of stops! "At last - they've AXED all stops south of Warwick Parkway." "I always knew that stop at Dorridge was always a waste of time..." There was a buzz onboard - these people had had an extra 40 mins in bed and now were speeding to the capital at 100 mph in a clean and comfortable Clubman train.

Regrettably, a catastrophic set of signal failures (fault of the contractors not Chiltern) threatened to derail the timetable and turn the days commute into CHAOS! Luckily, emergency engineers screeched to a halt in Network Rail vans at the signals and fixed the problems. Nevertheless, the crawl through Haddingham and Thames Parkway (branded the "new station for Oxford") caused many a commuter to mop their brow - not knowing whether they'd see the M25 this side of Christmas. Result - 10 minutes late arrival, but still an impressive 2 hrs 30 mins after departure (1hr 20 for Warwick!).

Returning on the 6.07pm, savvy commuters noticing a loco hauled train in platform 3 jumped the queue to board before the notorious and much feared daily "crush" when the Kidderminster train is announced. However, thanks to the new timetable - Banbury and Leamington Spa commuters now have a 6.10pm service, taking the pressure of the normal "sardine" conditions of the 6.07pm. Regrettably, staff made no announcement that the these stops had been axed until after departure, resulting in a near RIOT. Nevertheless, the train left and all was going well until DISASTER STRUCK! Signal failure at Ruslip. Luckily only 15 mins delay, then we sped on, passing through station after station with evidence of Chiltern's multimillion pound investment in car parks. At Gerrards Cross, who's new multi-storey was at bursting point, the bulldozers were ready to create more space. Of course - who couldn't resist the new sub 20 minute journey time and new rolling stock?

All in all - the mood was good on the train, with commuters no longer having to endure the torture of stopping everywhere after Banbury. The 6.07 had pretty much ALL seats round a table plus had a buffet car and business zone - a great initiative by Chiltern that threatens to derail the entire First Class system. Unfortunately, the onboard WiFi was unusable. Fellow commuters struggled to stay online, but had to switch to their Blackberry's or "The Metro" for entertainment. Commuters chuckled at the headline advert for Chiltern: "Still a Virgin? Try us!" The tables have been turned on Virgin, who's appalling Chiltern SNAILways adverts were slammed. At Warwick Parkway, tired commuters literally skipped down the platform, as they realised that (despite the delay) they'd get home to their families earlier from then on. The Banbury ones trudged over to Platform 1, vowing never to board a train again, without reading the departures board first...

An impressively fast run across Anyho - a perfect example of Chiltern's well targeted investment - turned to NIGHTMARE conditions as we got stuck behind a Centro all stops service. Commuters jaws dropped as we crawled through places who's names we never through we see or hear of again! "Widney Manor, Olton? Oh no!". Luckily, someone in the signal box had the sense to hold the stopper at Snow Hill to let the express service pass. As the Chiltern service pulled up alongside the LM stopper at Snow Hill there was a near SCRUM as passengers rushed to transfer to a decent train. A good run meant we arrived in Kidderminster less than 10 minutes late.

Summary: Nice & Fast?

Nice? Most certainly!
Fast? Definitely - especially once the infrastructure is more reliable.

Virgin, LM and FGW - watch out!


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on September 06, 2011, 00:53:55
Should anyone else wish to experience the new Mainline service in the coming weeks then Chiltern have a special offer running until 23rd September with fares on the fast peak services at ^1 each way. Limited availability. Once they're gone, they're gone.

http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/content/%C2%A31-offer-booking


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: willc on September 06, 2011, 01:37:09
Ah, welcome to the parallel universe, where late trains each way equals a triumph, where signal testing over-running by two days, even after this phase was postponed earlier in the year due to a fear of over-running, is "an intense and nail biting set of engineering works", where things going wrong are the fault of the contractors and nothing to do with the company that hired them, a whole new station appears (maybe that's why it's the "new station for Oxford"?) - I take it you were trying to type Haddenham & Thame but were clearly over-excited - passengers get over-carried due to lack of timely information on the day of a major timetable change, tired (how, after all that extra time in bed?) commuters literally skipped down the platform (oh come off it) and my personal favourite
Quote
business zone - a great initiative by Chiltern that threatens to derail the entire First Class system
- if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Chiltern are a train operator - a good one - but not the answer to life, the universe and everything. And not all their passengers are happy with the new timetable, but then they use intermediate stations and don't all want to go to London, so who cares what they think?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on September 06, 2011, 03:22:53
Morning 'Mainline' services arriving into Marylebone on Monday 5th September (times ex Birmingham Moor Street):

0546: On time
0619: 5 late
0655: 3 late
0733: 8 late
0815: 8 late
0825: 5 late
0855: 10 late
0915: 3 late
0955: 8 late
1015: 20 late
1055: 8 late
1115: 11 late
1155: 1 late

For the rest of the day only 4 'Mainline' arrivals into Marylebone were on time.



Afternoon/evening 'Mainline' services arriving into Birmingham Moor Street (times ex London Marylebone):

1437: 7 late
1507: On time
1537: 3 late
1607: 3 late
1630: 4 late
1650: On time
1707: On time
1737: 3 late
1807: 18 late
1810: 10 late
1915: 11 late
1937: 8 late
2010: 5 late

For the rest of the day, 8 services into Birmingham Moor Street were on time.


Out of a total of 62 'Mainline' services, only 16 had on time arrivals at either Marylebone or Moor Street. An inauspicious start.

....turned to NIGHTMARE conditions as we got stuck behind a Centro all stops service. Commuters jaws dropped as we crawled through places who's names we never through we see or hear of again! "Widney Manor, Olton? Oh no!". Luckily, someone in the signal box had the sense to hold the stopper at Snow Hill to let the express service pass.

And the reason the 1807 was stuck behind that Centro service? Because you were already running, on average, 10 mins late from South Ruislip onward. So the delays through to Birmingham and onward to Kidderminster were not the fault of London Midland (Centro). In fact holding the stopper at Snow Hill made it 12 mins late into Worcester Shrub Hill. So arguably, not a good decision by the signal box. Two late trains instead of one.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: devon_metro on September 06, 2011, 11:38:44
Btline, I can't seem to find the Press Release from the Chiltern Website that you have quoted. Perhaps you can direct me to it?

 :-X


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on September 06, 2011, 15:42:08
D/M: Credit to you for seeing the tongue in cheek of my post, which was meant to be lighthearted in nature. ;)

Willc: For goodness sake - chill out! It can't be good for your health. Nothing more to say.

BNM: Whilst there were delays, these were down to a plethora of signal failures not the timetable or "mainline" concept. I therefore feel the launch was pretty successful. There are issues for local commuters, but that'll be a matter of adding a stop here, axing a stop there, making one service 4 to 8 car, another 8 to 4, etc. It won't affect "Mainline". The B'ham trains always missed out stops, and in fact the new timetable has some longer distance trains (e.g. 6.10) stopping at places like Beaconsfield.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: willc on September 06, 2011, 20:14:25
You're so right. Trying to rebut your one-eyed, distorted view of things is utterly pointless, since you are so obviously right and all the rest of us are just so wrong. I've nothing more to say except goodbye.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on September 06, 2011, 20:31:22
BNM: Whilst there were delays, these were down to a plethora of signal failures not the timetable or "mainline" concept.

No signal failures logged as far as I could ascertain. There were (and still are) TSRs in some places, as the engineering was late finishing. Other delays were down to train faults and non-ascribed, i.e. just late running.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on September 06, 2011, 21:36:03
Another offer from Chiltern. This time one offering a weeks free travel from "Oxford's other station", Haddenham & Thame Parkway, to Marylebone, along with 3 weeks free car-parking.

The offer is available to anyone with an existing monthly or longer season ticket on a non-Chiltern route to London.

Further details:

http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/haddenham


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on September 06, 2011, 23:19:54
No - there were signal failures. Chiltern twitter and the Chiltern/Network Rail confirmed this, as did the guard on both my trips. There were some TSRs, but they had little impact, as we didn't slip behind much more.

One bad thing was that the driver of the loco + coaches constantly crawled into every station stop at about 5mph. Not sure that was needed - we could have made up time.

You're so right. Trying to rebut your one-eyed, distorted view of things is utterly pointless, since you are so obviously right and all the rest of us are just so wrong. I've nothing more to say except goodbye.

Groan - the above quote says more about you than about me. As I said, my post was light hearted. As for you - every time anyone says anything you disagree with or anyone says anything you think is stupid/ignorant, you attack them with vitriol. Other people have different opinions - deal with it.

What do people think about Chiltern branding Haddenham as Oxford's new station? Is it quite a way away, but could tempt commuters who drive to OXF through rush hour traffic.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: grahame on September 07, 2011, 07:05:36
Ah gosh ... let's not let the passionate drift too much into the personal (I know it's all too easy for it to happen).


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: eightf48544 on September 07, 2011, 09:19:40
Re the crawling into stations could be the type of ATP. Aas I understand it the Chiltern system doesn't have the advanced trigger that the GWML has thus you don't get a release until close to the signal.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on September 07, 2011, 10:55:46
Re the crawling into stations could be the type of ATP. Aas I understand it the Chiltern system doesn't have the advanced trigger that the GWML has thus you don't get a release until close to the signal.

That would explain it, except it happened all the way to Kidderminster - which doesn't have ATP. If it is necessary, then they need to account for it in timetables.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Rhydgaled on September 07, 2011, 11:37:05
Re the crawling into stations could be the type of ATP. Aas I understand it the Chiltern system doesn't have the advanced trigger that the GWML has thus you don't get a release until close to the signal.

I don't know how acurate the BVE train sim trains I have are, but the braking distance of the top & tail WSMR mark 3 rake with 67s is much longer than the other trains I have on it. If this is the case with real 67s, maybe the drivers are being extra cauious and slowing earlier to ensure they don't miss the stop?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: devon_metro on September 07, 2011, 16:42:12
67s/DVTs don't have ATP.

It will most likely be a defensive driving policy/unfamiliarity of stock.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on September 07, 2011, 18:26:12
It will most likely be a defensive driving policy/unfamiliarity of stock.

Yeah - hopefully it will improve with time. Those Warwick Parkway commuters were itching to get off!

Btw - before each stop, the guard sensibly told passengers how to open the doors, and to close them behind. As a result, there have been none of the chaotic scenes as on the Cotswold line when 180s were binned, with passengers leaving doors open and not knowing how to get off. As a result, dwells were pretty good.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: stebbo on September 07, 2011, 20:47:34
Am I sure I read this right - passengers can't work out how to open a door?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on September 07, 2011, 22:17:54
Am I sure I read this right - passengers can't work out how to open a door?

With passengers not used to Mark 3 rolling stock - you'd be surprised.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 07, 2011, 23:44:02
Hmm.  ::)

Visitors from the USA (just for example: visitors from anywhere else in the World are equally welcome!) are not necessarily familiar with the door opening procedure on an HST at Bath Spa.

A few months ago, having boarded the train, with dispatchers already slamming the doors shut, I noted an American couple with several suitcases in the adjoining vestibule, frantically scrabbling on the inside of the door for a handle release.  Seeing their plight, I promptly shoved down the droplight, reached out and opened the door and jumped down onto the platform, with a cheery "Welcome to Bath!"

The grateful couple (who would otherwise have been overcarried to Bristol Temple Meads, and been left with a bad impression of the British railway system) thanked me (albeit hurriedly!) as I got back on board and slammed the door shut behind me.

Moral of the story: Accepting that we do have such 'old style' railway stock, with slam doors, please make allowances for those who are not familiar with such procedures.  ;D


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Ollie on September 08, 2011, 00:01:51
I have seen people press the "Door Unlocked" light.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: inspector_blakey on September 11, 2011, 21:11:04
Moral of the story: Accepting that we do have such 'old style' railway stock, with slam doors, please make allowances for those who are not familiar with such procedures.  ;D

I understand the sentiment, but there is a sticker posted on the door giving very clear opening instructions which is as big as it can be given the space constraints. Station dwell times are often fairly tight and platform staff are quite rightly keen to ensure trains are despatched smartly so that they don't have delay minutes attributed to them. I find it difficult to see how much more of an allowance can be made.

Incidentally, there is a definite cultural difference between America and the UK in terms of station dwell times - very, very relaxed in the US to the extent that people often don't even start getting out of their seat and collecting their luggage until the train has stopped at their station, and the staff are generally in no hurry to move things along either. They're not even equipped with whistles...


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 11, 2011, 21:49:04
Ditto the SWiss. But us Brits have to be as quick as possible. It's silly, really.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: TerminalJunkie on September 12, 2011, 11:36:06
Quote from: http://www.petitiononline.com/CHILTERN/petition.html (http://www.petitiononline.com/CHILTERN/petition.html)
To:  Chiltern Railways

We, the undersigned, are long-suffering commuters of Chiltern Railways who wish to strongly protest against the restructuring of the timetable. We require prompt action by the rail company to address our concerns.

[...]


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 12, 2011, 11:39:34
Stuttering along at 21 signatures over 4 days now - but Chiltern do have a serious problem in their heartland timetable (PRR and south of). Services reduced, but with insufficient seats for the number wishing to catch patrticular high-peak trains.

I've no problem with reducing the number of trains, but they've got to give everyone wanting to travel a seat. Ak=lso, GCR is now less than 20 minutes into LOndon, so Chiltern think standing is now ok....!


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on September 12, 2011, 11:56:43
It'll get sorted in December. They just need to move stock around and change some stopping patterns south of Banbury.

Remember, they now have the Mark 3 sets and several 172s. There is enough stock.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 12, 2011, 12:09:05
December??? You've got to be joking!...? Questions will get asked in Parliament (MPs use the service!) if it's not sorted by the end of this month.

Also, final close on the December TT is only a matter of a couple of weeks away anyway. Their problem is that stock can't get any longer on the few trains in the high peak hour as they are already full-length for the platforms. While supplying 3000 extra seats in the peaks, what they've missed is corectly estimating the numbers arriving for the few trains they are running in the high-peak.

I've asked the question, but I think they are at full stock usage in the peaks, so, no, there are no suitable units spare - and in any case, they can't be added to the trains that are seriously overcrowded for the reason already alluded to.

They've a Meet the Manager tomorrow when I hope to get some clue as to their initial solution - but it won't be easy. There are spare Mk3 coaches, but not in any state for passenger use.....and overnight staorage might be difficult at short notice anyway.

It'll get sorted in December. They just need to move stock around and change some stopping patterns south of Banbury.

Like where, pray? Without delaying their precious Mainline timings?.....THe other trains are all full already. I really don't see how you can blithly say that, without commuting to see how they are running pax-wise.

Quote
Remember, they now have the Mark 3 sets and several 172s. There is enough stock.

Another statement without suitable knowledge! the 8car 172 fleet is already out in use, and has been since the last TT. 165007 is out of use since the cow incident (bet you didn't know that either?). There are no extra loco+coach stock ready for service - indeed, one set is away having power-doors fitted (did you know that?).

Please don't maker such silly, didactic statements without having suitable knowledge at your fingertips.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: devon_metro on September 12, 2011, 13:55:50
Ah but ChrisB, you seem to be forgetting that AXED stops means an improved timetable...  :-X


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 12, 2011, 14:01:46
That seems to be Chiltern's thinking! Others of course, may & do vary...


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on September 12, 2011, 14:26:48
The AXED stops on "Mainline" trains are not Gerrards Cross, Becons etc. Of course, you don't mention the Mainline services that have additional stops in the morning peak for the benefit of the aforementioned stations.

I know the fleet is being used. What I was saying is that stock levels have increased recently with the extra carriages, and that that will help.

I'm sure a solution can be found. You say that the trains that don't stop are already packed and yet you also say the current trains are packed. Umm, so how will that work? And how did it work before. I doubt they have the stock or paths for extra services.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 12, 2011, 14:36:07
The AXED stops on "Mainline" trains are not Gerrards Cross, Becons etc. Of course, you don't mention the Mainline services that have additional stops in the morning peak for the benefit of the aforementioned stations.

You don't read, do you? No one said there were AXED stops on Mainline services. I said these were already full. AS are, IN THE HIGH PEAK, the heartland services, so NO EXTRA stops can be put in Mainline trains to serve the heartlands BECAUSE THEY ARE ALREADY FULL.

Quote
I know the fleet is being used. What I was saying is that stock levels have increased recently with the extra carriages, and that that will help.

Not if Chiltern are already utilising them, which they are, pretty much.

Quote
I'm sure a solution can be found. You say that the trains that don't stop are already packed and yet you also say the current (yes, stopping) trains are packed. Umm, so how will that work?

Exactly. My point. And Chiltern's problem.

Quote
And how did it work before.
Quote

More, shorter trains. At times that people wanted to travel.

Quote
I doubt they have the stock or paths for extra services.

I thought you said there was an EASY solution? :-)

There may well be a path or two. One reason I can see for AXED paths is to make room for the forthcoming Oxford services - they may well have made allowance for their introduction in this TT as it's supposedly the last big change before their introduction. If so, then they'll have to nick one or more back to cure the current problem & recast again in a year or so for Oxford....

If this is the case, then a path is found - they just need the stock. THey may have to AXE one of the later shoulder-peaks to get the stock.



Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on September 12, 2011, 15:56:22
Gentlemen, lets keep the debate civil. By all means offer your alternative point of view, but lets not get too personal when offering that POV. Using CAPS comes across as a bit shouty and confrontational.

If you do want to discuss differing opinions robustly then I'm sure we can arrange a face-to-face meeting. I'll referee.....  ::)


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 12, 2011, 16:08:55
My point in using CAPS was that someone was failing to *read* my ptrevious post, so I needed him to actually read what was posted. I will use bold if CAPS Aren't welcome.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on September 12, 2011, 17:06:52
Insert "shocked" smily at that post! Calm down - that's as bad as me after I've travelled XC! :o :D

If all the services are full, how did the TT work before before when according to the droves of comutters complaining they "always" got a seat. Perhaps the increased journey times and improved car parking have caused a passenger rush.

So you moan at Mainline AXING stops, but then moan at the Mainline being too full to stop. I was review the Mainline service. If that can't stop, then please don't drag it into the "commuter" TT issues.

I thought the OXF services were going to be extensions of Bicester terminators, or has this changed? Certainly in 1 draft TT, there would be no need for "spare paths". I accept that this may have changed.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 12, 2011, 17:22:19
Fewer trains in the high-peak hour concentrates pax into choosing more carefully. Higher loadings on one particular train can occur very easily. THe trains just outside this high-peak may quite possibly be quite empty.

I didn't moan at Mainline stops being AXED. I was just saying that a solution would not be to make them stop in the heartlands as 1) they're full already, and 2) Chioltern won't want to spoil their just-launched Mainline TT.

Errr - there aren't many Bicester terminators in the new TT. You can see that for yourself if you took the tiome to look on their website. Off-peak that's possible....



Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on September 12, 2011, 18:47:17
I'll admit that I haven't looked at the updated "commuter" timetable yet so I didn't realise the Bicester terminators had been AXED. I knew the Gerrards X ones had been AXED.

Why are there fewer trains in the high peak? With the loop lines at Princes R and Ruslips I thought that Mainline train would overtake stoppers, allowing even more stops. Plus some mainline trains do make stops.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 13, 2011, 10:33:22
Very few do.

Under the old TT, there were too many heartland trains that Mainline wouldn't be able to get past all necessary to achieve the timings Chiltern want, so they hjad to cut out trains. THey don't seem to now be using the UP line at HWY to pass trains in down platform - but the others are all in use.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 13, 2011, 10:37:48
Not last night or this morning they weren't.

Not sure yet what went wrong....last night seemed to be a general signal failure at WRU, meaning 80 minute delays on the up and around 50 mins on the down. Carnage later in the evening with drivers out of hours refusing to bring their trains back to MYB...are they on an overtime ban?

One driver said the delays this morning - just north of HDM to PRR - was causing by "fairy liquid on the line, put there by kids"....I suspect the drivers are getting pretty pissed off with a TT that isn't working.

A Meet the Manager tonight will cause congestion on the station I suspect with a lot of pax wanting to talk/complain, and a tweet the manager with their TT guru on Thursday might get hairy too I suspect.

But all kudos for not hiding away!


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on September 13, 2011, 11:37:37
It's a shame more loops/ 4 tracking wasn't put in. The tunnel at Gerrards X leaves space for 4 tracks. Beaconsfield was due to have fast lines in Evergreen 2, but this plan was AXED.

Why are there so many signal failures? The phrase "can't build anything these days" comes to mind. And people moan when train orders are given to Germany! The number of failures on the WCML is also nothing short of unacceptable considering the cost up the upgrade.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 13, 2011, 12:06:31
I think that's a question for Atkins the contractors, and Network Rail who signed the work off.....


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: inspector_blakey on September 13, 2011, 19:28:44
Carnage later in the evening with drivers out of hours refusing to bring their trains back to MYB...are they on an overtime ban?

I have no knowledge of the specific situation, but as far as I'm aware they're not. It may be that they were getting close to Hidden limits (limits on the length of shifts safety critical staff can work, arising from the Hidden report after the Clapham Junction crash)...?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 13, 2011, 19:40:11
Quite possible.

Reasonably positive meet the manager session tonight - there's no doubt that they are aware of where the problems lie. But the majority were obvious if they'd looked at it from the passengers p.o.v.

Indeed, I pointed one obvious one out when the TT came out for consultation, and failed to get dealt with in any wsy satisfactorally. It will likely get dealt with in the next couple of weeks.

Kudos to them though big time - instead of hiding away, the big guns came out tonight & their Timetable guru hits their Tweet account on Thursday morning for an hour.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 14, 2011, 23:52:50
I had a little jaunt on some of the Chiltern network yesterday, and by the looks of it their management are quite rightly concerned.

Here's what I personally experienced having decided to try out one of the Class 67 hauled 'Silver' trains from Marylebone amongst others:

1)  10:54 Bicester North to Marylebone

Formed off of a set which arrives at 10:45.  The decision to rebuild Bicester North Up Platform and not install a passing loop (as has been done at Princes Risborough) makes things difficult in this example, as the terminating train has to be checked empty, despatched to the turnaround siding before allowing the 09:55 Birmingham Moor Street to Marylebone pass through, after which it can return to the Up Platform to form the train.

The driver has to check the terminating train, and certainly didn't seem in much of a hurry yesterday.  By the time it crawled into the sidings the 09:55ex Moor Street was waiting at the signal outside.  After accelerating through, the set for the 10:54 crawled (and I mean crawled) from the siding into the platform.  Net result was a 4 minute late departure.  The driver also took the set all the way to the far end of the siding (despite only being a 2-car) which meant it took longer to get back into the station.  Not sure whether that's an instruction they follow, or just this driver's decision, but it didn't help.  Also the points leading into the siding are marked as 15mph, but the train was far slower than that in both directions - whether ATP was preventing it from going faster, or the driver was just taking it steady I'm not sure.  Either way, that sort of sloppy working needs tightening up for this new timetable to stand a chance!

2)  Princes Risborough

A pleasant hour was spent watching trains at Risborough.  It was great to see the fast services running at full speed through the station - though all of them were running late.  There was also good use made of the new through loop with fast services passing stopping ones.  Although the facility to pass trains at High Wycombe remains, they will be doing it at Risborough wherever possible as it has less conflicts with other services.

3)  12:21 Princes Risborough to Marylebone


This had departed Banbury 4 minutes late and as I was watching it on my phone, lost more time en-route.  We eventually left Risborough 10 minutes late.  Even with a spirited run to London we only gained one minute back arriving 9 minutes late.  The driver blamed poor rail adhesion, which certainly might have contributed, but the tight schedule meant no real scope for recovery.  The fact it was a Class 165, restricted to 75mph, meant that the upgrade work had little effect on the speed the train could go, save for some short sections in the Northolt and Neasden Junction areas.

4)  13:37 Marlylebone to Birmingham Moor Street

A Class 67, and 5 shiny MK3's and a DVT were sat in platform 1 Marylebone.  We left about 40% full and I settled in to a journey scheduled to take just 100 minutes stopping only at Banbury, Leamington Spa, Warwick Parkway, and Solihull.  We were 2 minutes late leaving after waiting a delayed train from Aylesbury to arrive into a conflicting platform.  Even with the extra platforms, Marylebone is very congested train wise.

After getting checked for the 60mph permanent speed restriction at High Wycombe and for a TSR near Bicester we roared through Aynho Junction and arrived Banbury after just 54 minutes - an average speed of 78mph!  Moor Street was reached after 103 minutes an average of 65mph, though we had lost a further 3 minutes and arrived 5 minutes late.  This is worrying as, apart from two 50mph TSR's, there were no noticeable hold-ups throughout, apart from a slow arrival at Moor Street which could well be due to the fact that the train arrives at one of the new bay platforms and is therefore subject to approach control signals.  Station dwell times were at an absolute minumum for a slam door stock train.  Are these schedules just too tight?

5)  Other observations

Birmingham Moor Street's train announcer is still a manual one, and he decided to announce in a very chirpy voice.  Nothing wrong with that, until you realise that every time he said 'Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Birmingham Moor Street before' every announcement.  I must admit after a couple of minutes it got bloody irritating!  Contrast that with the excellent annoucements on board the 13:37 which could sadly hardly be heard due to the level of the speakers.  I was also unable to connect with the free wi-fi on board, but otherwise the trip was very impressive and an excellent advert for what train travel can offer.  The two new bay platforms at Moor Street look great and really add to the capacity at this station.

I then took a London Midland service to the Hawthorns (excellent on-train announcements spoilt this time due to a speaker that was far too loud - why can't we get it right!).  The Midland Metro platforms are right by the National Rail ones and I was struck by how passengers are encouraged to walk across the tracks in between the low platforms in between trams.  It's no wonder some people don't understand the dangers of tresspassing on the tracks when they are encouraged to do just that on metro tracks which look just the same to the untrained eye!

Through to Stratford-Upon-Avon from the Hawthorns as I wanted to take a look at the work that's been undertaken on that route over the last few years.  Much of the track has been replaced to give a nice smooth ride.  The line is now LED signalled throughout controlled from the West Midlands Signalling Centre at Saltley.  There were signs of ongoing platform extentions, as well as welcomed added capacity/speeds at Bearley Junction and Stratford-Upon-Avon.  At Stratford, the addition of a crossover means that trains can now arrive and terminate at all three platforms, rather than previously where they had to arrive on platform 1 and shunt over to 2/3 if needed to get out of the way.  An example of how a relatively simple and cheap fix can really add to capacity.

6)  17:40 Stratford-Upon-Avon to Marylebone.

Not much to say about this one.  Left on time and arrived at Banbury (where I left it) on time.  Then again this is one train that, bar two extra stops, runs in the same timings as it did before the Mainline timetable took effect.  Stratford ends up feeling very little benefit from the Mainline timetable sadly - no wonder the council there is not too impressed with Chiltern Railways according to credible rumour.

7)  Summary

Overall, I'm impressed, yet worried.  Very few of the trains I saw/travelled on yesterday were on time.  Occasional major disruption, like signal failures, are excusable.  Minor adjustments to the stopping patterns and train consists might mitigate many of the criticisms of overcrowding that have been made - not observed by me yesterday, but I was avoiding peak trains.  However, on a day like yesterday when there were no major problems most of the trains were still running 5-15 minutes late.  This is not a good sign.  Sure, drivers/signallers will get more familiar with the new schedules, speeds and so on, but I am concerned that Chiltern have simply been too optimistic about what they can achieve journey time wise.

The improved infrastructure still doesn't allow much flexibility operationally on what is basically a 2-track railway right from the throat of Marylebone station onwards.  Timings are very tight to say the least, there is hardly any apparent slack, so when a train gets late it will more often than not stay late.  Whilst FGW have come under criticism for too much slack, have Chiltern gone too far the other way?

It is, as ChrisB says, laudable that their management has been very active and visible over the last few days.  Believe me, there will be a hell of a lot of investigation going on to work out what can be done to sort out the initial problems.  This is a big test for Chiltern and its management - with a massive timetable change like this there will always be some teething problems, but are they so bad that the timetable will have to be overhauled completely?  I fear it might, or Chiltern's predicted 2% drop in punctuality following Mainline might be more like a 20% drop!

As an example as to how bad things are, here's the performance of peak hour trains through High Wycombe this evening.  60 trains, only 9 arriving at their destination within the 5 minute charter threshold, one part cancellation and one full cancellation.  Worrying!

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6166/6148056461_3844361fb9_b.jpg)


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Andy W on September 15, 2011, 10:10:18
Excellent post II, very interesting. Clearly some serious issues, hopefully they have the right focus and determination at the highest level to sort it all out.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 15, 2011, 14:33:08
Their Tweet the Manager was illuminating too - Bravely, the Chiltern Timetable guru took part for the best part of 90 minutes.....

They agree that there are problems, and also that they failed completely to manage adequately customer expectations. All these posters and marketing that persuaded everyone that their journey was going to get faster.....and those south of PRR might find one train each peak with the saving that was advertised, but most there's little improvement, and some trains are actually slower owing to being overtaken.

That, and the general loss of a Metro-style  turn-up-&-go that HWY, BCF & GCR had, and now only get 4tph....meaning the station/platform gets busier, meaning queues at the ticket office, coffee huts and newsagents too.

Other than suggesting a full train count across all services Tues-Thu next week, and possible stock swaps to provide extra coaches on some services after due analysis of these loading figures, I didn't think he was that confident that they could cure their problem.....which worries me somewhat.

He didn't show that he understood that pax want to travel at a time that gets them to MYB at a certain time that will allow them enough time to get to work - so if they choose to travel at, say 0753, a train at 0810 taking the same time to get to MYB, is likely to arrive too late....if they need to arrive before 0830, then getting in afterwards is a non-starter. Likewiose they don't want to arrive earlier than 0820, or 0815 at a real push....

Same going home. taking heartlands as an example, pax want to leave MYB within say, 15 minutes max of getting there, and preferably 10 mins.

And Chiltern have to manage all that want to arive and depart MYB in each 15-minute slot. Whether that's by skip stopping, or putting on sufficient coaches to carry them all, is their choice - but manage them *all* they must - not try & suggest that some of them might travel in a different 15-minute slot!!!

It's that aspect that they just don't get, and therefore aren't yet trying to cure. THey think just moving stock around the services will cure their problem - it won't, because insufficient trains are now running in the high-peak! So moving stock around these services ios likely to just create the problem elsewhere - either on the Aylesbury line or Mainline, or just other stations in the heartlands.

There were some suggestions that they might re-introduce the old pre-mainLine TT - a suggestion that I've made too. It works, pax were happy with it. It would buy them time to fix the problem after properly modelling it...rather than trial & error...ok, based on counts (why weren't they done *before* developing the TT), but still no proper modelling.

Oh, you might think they see this as something *urgent* that needs immediate attention?....I gave him the opportunity to say days/weeks before the fixes, but he somewhat surprisingly said weeks & months before it would be properly fixed.

I think the suggestion about bringing in the old TT now holds even more weight. Pax will get increasingly restless as they see no changes after another 7 days of overcrowding....they just don't have *months* to get this right! I wonder whether the DfT is watching yet?.....


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 15, 2011, 15:42:54
I think the suggestion about bringing in the old TT now holds even more weight. Pax will get increasingly restless as they see no changes after another 7 days of overcrowding....they just don't have *months* to get this right! I wonder whether the DfT is watching yet?.....

I agree with you, Chris, that's something that should be seriously considered.  Shades of December 2006 with the 'c2c' franchise when a certain Mark Hopwood was in command:  http://www.c2c-online.co.uk/latest_updates/news/morning_and_evening_weekday_peak_schedules_to_return_to_previous_patterns_as_c2c_restores_old_timetable (http://www.c2c-online.co.uk/latest_updates/news/morning_and_evening_weekday_peak_schedules_to_return_to_previous_patterns_as_c2c_restores_old_timetable)

Mind you, a much better morning today - still an unacceptable number of trains late, but a far higher percentage making charter.  Their new blue-ribbon 'Up' service, the 06:55 Moor Street to Marylebone, which runs non-stop from Warwick Parkway actually made up 3 minutes after Warwick to only arrive Marylebone 3 minutes late - just 1h 07m for the trip equating to an average speed of 82mph.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on September 15, 2011, 15:51:57
I'm struggling to see what the problem is in the morning. There are only 3 "Mainline" arrivals between 8 and 9am. Only one of these is a "super fast" non stop after Warwick Pway service. As far as I'm aware, this is similar to before, except the super fast train would have stopped at Banbury and Leamington. The Stratford service (the other high peak arrival) covers these.

So as Chiltern now have more stock (172s and 168s freed up from Mainline), what is the excuse for running less trains? I cannot see how mainline is causing massive gaps in arrivals around 8.30am. I still think they need to put the loops in at BCF, HWY and GEX. Surely 4 tracking after the M25 to South Ruslip would allow at least 2 trains to be overtaken.

II - I actually though there was plenty of slack in the 6.07pm. Despite crawling over Neasden, Northolt and Tysely jncts and coming to a halt at Ruslip for about 10 minutes (and the TSRs) we still only arrived about 10 minutes late into Moor Street. The main problem was the woefully slow deceleration, crawling into stations at 10 mph. After Bham, there is plenty of slack, resulting in a less than 10 minute late arrival into KID. Perhaps we made most of the time up North of Bicester, with Aynho.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 15, 2011, 16:24:04
II - I actually though there was plenty of slack in the 6.07pm. Despite crawling over Neasden, Northolt and Tysely jncts and coming to a halt at Ruslip for about 10 minutes (and the TSRs) we still only arrived about 10 minutes late into Moor Street. The main problem was the woefully slow deceleration, crawling into stations at 10 mph. After Bham, there is plenty of slack, resulting in a less than 10 minute late arrival into KID. Perhaps we made most of the time up North of Bicester, with Aynho.

I was talking about the 'Up' Warwick fast, not the 'Down' one!  The 'Down' equivelent actually has 3 minutes more to do the same trip, and that's without any final stop performance padding that the 06:55ex Moor Street might have into Marylebone, so yes, it's a less challenging run.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 15, 2011, 16:35:26
So as Chiltern now have more stock (172s and 168s freed up from Mainline), what is the excuse for running less trains?

I promised not to respond - but I can't help it. They aren't running fewer trains - they *are* running fewer trains in the high-peak hour.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on September 15, 2011, 16:51:56
I understand (confusion as trains can mean stock and services), but I fail to see why they are running fewer services in the high peak hour when these is a lack of "Mainline" services and enough stock.

From what people have been saying ("a void of services between X and Y"), anyone would think that there was a Mainline racing through every 5 minutes. I can't see any new problems that they didn't have before regarding slotting stoppers between expresses. Perhaps a skip stop pattern should be introduced. Or an extra BCF stop on a Mainline.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Andrew1939 from West Oxon on September 15, 2011, 16:59:39
Posters going up around Witney of the Thames & Haddenham - the alternative Oxford Station for London - only 41 minutes to London. I can't see many people driving from Witney to Thames for london. However I was monitoring the use of the new 08.40 departure from Hanborough on Tuesday and one of the 18 people boarding said that she had changed from Thame to Hanborough now that this additional departure had become available as it was quicker and more convenient. The 1 hour earlier train was too early for her, the 08.01 stopper was too slow, having to change at Oxford, and the next train was too late for her twice/triple journeys each week to London. The 08.40 is just right. At least that is one up for the CL


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: devon_metro on September 15, 2011, 19:00:26
I think the suggestion about bringing in the old TT now holds even more weight. Pax will get increasingly restless as they see no changes after another 7 days of overcrowding....they just don't have *months* to get this right! I wonder whether the DfT is watching yet?.....

I agree with you, Chris, that's something that should be seriously considered.  Shades of December 2006 with the 'c2c' franchise when a certain Mark Hopwood was in command:  http://www.c2c-online.co.uk/latest_updates/news/morning_and_evening_weekday_peak_schedules_to_return_to_previous_patterns_as_c2c_restores_old_timetable (http://www.c2c-online.co.uk/latest_updates/news/morning_and_evening_weekday_peak_schedules_to_return_to_previous_patterns_as_c2c_restores_old_timetable)

Mind you, a much better morning today - still an unacceptable number of trains late, but a far higher percentage making charter.  Their new blue-ribbon 'Up' service, the 06:55 Moor Street to Marylebone, which runs non-stop from Warwick Parkway actually made up 3 minutes after Warwick to only arrive Marylebone 3 minutes late - just 1h 07m for the trip equating to an average speed of 82mph.

Has the 0655 actually arrived on time yet??? Every time i've looked it's been a couple of minutes late.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 15, 2011, 19:20:27
No, don't think so, but there really is zero slack in that train until MYB's three minutes in terminus time.

It can very easily lose 4 minutes....with no slack, it'll be a guaranteed 1 late.

Most Mainline services are very tight in the peaks. Workimg time thriugh HWY on these is now 22 mins, dowm from 28 previously.

I think I can answer BTLine again, but want to type it on a keyboard, rather than this iphone. I'm on the 1840 wx MYB


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 15, 2011, 22:05:43
A much better evening this evening.  48 out of those 60 trains I linked to yesterday were within the 5 minute charter threshold.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on September 15, 2011, 22:18:25
I think I can answer BTLine again, but want to type it on a keyboard, rather than this iphone. I'm on the 1840 wx MYB

Please do! I hope the delay is real life and not the fact that you're stuck onboard! :D I hope I haven't missed something obvious...

I think "Mainline" reliability is probably going to be ok - esp after the plug doors. And I assume the drivers will get used to the locos. Lets get some extra Suburban paths in.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 16, 2011, 10:35:00
but I fail to see why they are running fewer services in the high peak hour when these is a lack of "Mainline" services and enough stock.

Not sure what you mean by 'enough' stock. All trains are out utuilised in the new TT. So adding a service anywhere will require canx of a service somewhere else within that peak.

The reason for fewer heartland trains is that the old TT ran at a top speed *all* stock was able to run at - 75mph or below. Now, most of the route is optimised for faster running at 100mph - except that the 165 top speed hasn't changed and is still 75.

So you've now got services approaching the heartlands faster than before, therefore the heartland trains have to be less frequent to allow 100mph running of other services.

Quote
I can't see any new problems that they didn't have before regarding slotting stoppers between expresses. Perhaps a skip stop pattern should be introduced. Or an extra BCF stop on a Mainline.

See above for the new problem.
A stop in a Mainline train (which are already full anyway, so little point in stopping those - except for the 2 very fast flyers) would cost at least 5 minutes and probably 6, from the point the brakes were applied, to stopping to pick up or set down, to reaching full speed again. Kills the commercial aspect of having the fast trains, and especially those 90 minute flyers.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 16, 2011, 10:36:18
Further signal problems at Princes Risborough (which seemed to start last night) and Ruislips (yet again!)

Getting slightly ridululous now, and it's going to be weeks yet according to Chiltern....how long before a riot?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: paul7575 on September 16, 2011, 11:21:53
While the residents of the Chilterns are focussed on these problems they'll sneak in and build HS2 without them noticing...   ;D

Paul


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 16, 2011, 11:40:51
About to treplace cable at Saunderton any time now.....

Definitely more in this than you'd expect I think....


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 16, 2011, 20:31:44
Getting slightly ridululous now, and it's going to be weeks yet according to Chiltern....how long before a riot?

Another good evening peak punctuality wise this evening though.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 16, 2011, 21:35:54
Indeed! Proof that the timings at least can work.

But that doesn't help the overcrowfing problems in the peak, and if I were management, I think I've seen enough to know that the smallest delay can cause many services to miss their punctuality target. I'm not sure its robust enough, and although Chiltern recognise that their punctuality will drop, I think it'll drop further than the 0.5% that they do.

My train home was on time for the first time in a fortnight.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: devon_metro on September 16, 2011, 23:42:22
Chiltern's 'flagship' 0655 Moor Street - MYB 25 mins late this morning. Nice...


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 17, 2011, 06:35:47
The AM peak is less flexible on timekeeping than the pm, it seems


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 20, 2011, 10:18:39
The AM peak is less flexible on timekeeping than the pm, it seems

I think it's far too early to draw conclusions like that.  This mornings peak was pretty good again - all trains under 10 minutes late, and a PPM over the 80% mark.  Looks like the timetable is now settling down and hopefully won't have to be substantially altered or the old timetable brought back it, both of which would be pretty humiliating for Chiltern.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 20, 2011, 10:33:30
Even if that's Chiltern's opinion?.....one blip in suburban service will blow the Mainline trains timekeeping away....

I don't consider 80%+ 'pretty good' either - we're not discussing FGW! Chiltern were regularly over 92.5% before this timetable, so they're still nearly 10% down into the fourth week. Sorry, but in Chiltern terms, that's ridiculous.

It won't be substantially altered, they have never intended to do that - they consider simply reallocating stock to try & provide seats on overcrowded trains will be sufficient. They expect about a 0.5% deterioration in their PPM. I reckon it'll be double or triple that. They have to achieve 92.5% PPM per current franchise requirements.

Stacks of Twitter complaints again this morning about overcrowding - even from as far out as BCS.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 20, 2011, 10:54:57
I don't consider 80%+ 'pretty good' either - we're not discussing FGW! Chiltern were regularly over 92.5% before this timetable, so they're still nearly 10% down into the fourth week. Sorry, but in Chiltern terms, that's ridiculous.

I consider it a pretty good morning peak - let's face it a week or so ago we were questioning whether the timetable was even workable in principle!  Everything since 9am has so far made the 0-4mins mark - keep that up for the rest of the day and they'd be well in to the 90% PPM for the day.

If they continue this upward trend then something approaching a regular 90% figure may well be achieved.  Though I agree that I think a 0.5% drop for Phase 1 and a 1.2% drop after Phase 2 (Oxford link) will prove very difficult to achieve.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 20, 2011, 14:37:33
Roger Ford reports that -
Quote
After that it is straight on  to the first meeting of the new session of the Fourth Friday Club,. Guest speaker is Adrian Shooter ^ fireworks guaranteed.

http://www.4thfriday.co.uk/

Meetings held at lunchtime on 4th Fridays in Central London


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 20, 2011, 23:55:38
This mornings peak was pretty good again - all trains under 10 minutes late, and a PPM over the 80% mark.

I should point out that those figures were based on the morning peak services via the High Wycombe route, so the actual figure (including more reliable routes like Met Line services, Oxford-Bicester trains and a few other more reliable short distance services) was actually around 88% according to my calculations on all services up until noon.

However, this evening has been another disaster with signalling problems at West Ruislip, so all that good work has been undone again.  One train took 2h30m from Marylebone to Princes Risborough!


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on September 21, 2011, 00:39:30
http://www.itv.com/meridian-west/fears-of-overcrowding42906/?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: grahame on September 21, 2011, 01:30:52
http://www.itv.com/meridian-west/fears-of-overcrowding42906/?

"I don't mind standing on a one-off basis, but really this isn't on every day" says one of their customers. "We'll move trains around so that people get what they expect, which is a seat" (I may have slightly paraphrased in both cases) according to the spokesman.

Both of which seem to be perfectly reasonable positions / targets for the rail industry.



Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 21, 2011, 06:15:24
Last night's chiltern was another disaster! Not omly points at Ruislip again, but more cowson the line at Haddenham and another failed train at MYB.

Just gone 0600, and they've already had *another* failed train - the 0525 AYS-MYB via HWY sat down at Beconsfield a few minutes ago. Engineering, failed trains are too common a sight.

Oh, one silver train was "having some tlc" yesterday. What they really meant was that no one fuelled the loco on Friday night and it ran out....the tlc eas the refuelling....


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 21, 2011, 13:37:03
Just gone 0600, and they've already had *another* failed train - the 0525 AYS-MYB via HWY sat down at Beconsfield a few minutes ago. Engineering, failed trains are too common a sight.

Didn't seem to cause many problems though.  Another good AM service with 89%* of arrival/departures from Marylebone until noon reaching their destination within 0-4 minutes late (70 trains).  7am-10am services recorded 91%* (115 trains).   Largest delay 12 minutes.  1 part cancellation (the one Chris mentions above) and two trains not reported anywhere, so I presume they were cancelled?

* These are based on the working timetable, and excludes services that don't go from/to Marylebone which are usually very punctual (such as the Oxford-Bicester service), so the actual PPM Charter figure will almost certainly be higher.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 21, 2011, 13:46:34
Three trains down in one AM peak - that's really awful....it ought to be less than one per peak.

Three pax counters seen arguing over figures....amazing.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on September 21, 2011, 14:09:43
http://www.itv.com/meridian-west/fears-of-overcrowding42906/?

That spokesperson looked like he was barely out of school. I wonder, if problems continue, whether we'll be seeing Mr Brighouse on the local news?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 21, 2011, 14:38:15
THomas Abelman is Marketing *Director* at Chiltern, having transferred from Wrexham & Shropshire on its demise. He's also in charge of fares.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on September 21, 2011, 14:40:42
A director??? He looked barely out of short trousers.  ::)

I guess, being in charge of fares, he was the killjoy that closed the Haddenham - Wendover/Stoke Mandeville cheap fare loophole.  ;)


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 21, 2011, 14:42:21
yup....


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 21, 2011, 16:43:32
Three trains down in one AM peak - that's really awful....it ought to be less than one per peak.

The three cancellations were:

05:25 Aylesbury-Marylebone - last report arriving at High Wycombe
07:46 Marylebone-High Wycombe
08:48 High Wycombe-Marylebone - no reports, so assumed cancelled

Almost certainly all on the same diagram.  Not much you can do when a train fails and all your others are out in revenue earning service, so you can't step anything up.

At a quick glance the service from 12-4pm was achieving a similar level of punctuality as the morning service.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: inspector_blakey on September 21, 2011, 17:06:09
A director??? He looked barely out of short trousers.  ::)

Thomas Ableman, as it happens, was in the year above me at university, which given that I'm 29 I reckon puts him somewhere around 30 - 31. Pretty sure he started out straight from there as a graduate trainee with NEx group and has since found his way via W&S (late of this parish) to Chiltern; that would have been 2003ish so he's got a good few years' experience in the railway industry under his belt. Didn't know him particularly well when we were students but my impression was of a guy who, although somewhat intense, was very, very sharp.

Edited to correct spelling of Abelman to Ableman. I really should have known that...


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on September 21, 2011, 17:10:28
I guess it's that similar scenario where you think the coppers are getting younger. Rather more likely that it's just the fact that I'm getting older.   :-\


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: inspector_blakey on September 21, 2011, 17:21:04
Many's the time I've kicked myself for not taking more interest in the various rail industry graduate training schemes back then...for some reason I was fixated on another few years' study with the prospect of a bright red and blue gown at the end of it, although with the 20/20 vision of hindsight I have no idea why! Anyway, apologies for rambling around the issue, back on to the topic...


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on September 21, 2011, 21:56:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkSDmJPbkdQ

Does anyone else not think much of this ad? And I don't like the way the voice over says "nice".


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 22, 2011, 13:18:29
'Nice' is one of the worst words in our language for many reasons!

Another good start to the day for the new timetable.  My calculations on services to/from Marylebone this morning (0-4 minutes late at destination - today based on the public arrival times, not working timetable times):

6am-12pm: 98%  7-10am: 100%


No cancellations.  Longest delay 7 minutes (1037 MYB-BMO).


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on September 22, 2011, 13:36:04
To misquote an old BR tagline:

"They're getting there."

 ;D


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 22, 2011, 14:17:47
0855 from Moor Street holding 'record' timing of 87 minutes start to final stop today


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 22, 2011, 16:26:12
Wow - that was shifting it some!


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Chafford1 on September 22, 2011, 20:40:48
Reassuring to see that when there are no problems, trains can keep to the timetable. What further infrastructure enhancements would make the timetable more robust when things go wrong, though?



Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on September 22, 2011, 21:18:01
Glad to hear things are getting nicer and faster.

It's not just that about the advert - it's the fact it doesn't really advertise a train journey, the bit where you realise it's a train is over so quickly!! Also pointless for people in Kidderminster or Warwick where the 90 minute journey time is irrelevant. People in KID want to know it's direct in less than 2 hrs 20. Warwick 1 hr 15. No mention of business zone, wifi or nice rolling stock.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 22, 2011, 21:55:41
BZ & 'nice' rolling stock are only on two trains each peak....advertise it like that & everyone will rexpect it at least on most services.

Agree with your other point about knowing its a train service, where it calls & where it goes though!

PPM for Period 6 is the worst that Chiltern has ever had! 83.7% punctuality & even just 87% Reliability - which is nothing to do with the TT but a reflection on their maintenance....

Year on year, they're BOTH just 0.1% above annual targets for those markers - which sort of smacks of massaging the figures to keep them above target....another 0.2% drop in the next period & commuters will start to get a 10% discount....& not before time either. Chiltern appear not to want to compensate their regulars for the two weeks without & another two weeks pretty much without a decent trip.....


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: inspector_blakey on September 23, 2011, 03:41:54
Seriously...87% reliability for period 6? That's dire. Assuming I'm interpreting correctly, that means they've cancelled 13% of trains during the period, right?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 23, 2011, 08:40:09
Right....or part-cancelled them.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 23, 2011, 10:22:38
PPM for Period 6 is the worst that Chiltern has ever had! 83.7% punctuality & even just 87% Reliability - which is nothing to do with the TT but a reflection on their maintenance....

Year on year, they're BOTH just 0.1% above annual targets for those markers - which sort of smacks of massaging the figures to keep them above target....another 0.2% drop in the next period & commuters will start to get a 10% discount....& not before time either. Chiltern appear not to want to compensate their regulars for the two weeks without & another two weeks pretty much without a decent trip.....

Yes, I saw the poster at Banbury the other day with the latest figures - though they've yet to put them on the website!  I think it's safe to say both will drop below the targets from next month - even with the much better figures the last few days.  Interestingly the Moving Annual Average for punctuality had been slowing slipping over the last year or so, by about 3 percetage points, before the Mainline timetable was introduced.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on September 23, 2011, 13:19:50
My calculations on services to/from Marylebone this morning (0-4 minutes late at destination - based on the public arrival times):

6am-12pm: 95%  7-10am: 94%


No cancellations.  Longest delay 13 minutes (0626 AYS-MYB).


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 23, 2011, 13:35:12
Its looking as if Chiltern are just going to offer the odd longer train to the heartlands, starting in just over a week on 3 October. Then nothing more until the Dec11 TT. Seeming to want to face their customers down - I wonder whether they can organise themselves and start a serious protest?

Timings seem to work, overcrowding is still seious


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Chafford1 on September 26, 2011, 19:30:22
This says it all

http://neildodd.posterous.com/


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 26, 2011, 21:31:25
Only 83 signatures though, somewhat surprising...


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: XPT on September 27, 2011, 23:09:21
I plan to make a journey soon(possibly next week) to experience a journey on the new fast Chiltern mainline and also onboard a superb Class 67.  The 1630 London Marylebone-Birmingham Snow Hill particularly realy interests me, as it is non-stop all the way to Warwick Parkway.  A proper express service and loco hauled!  But skimming through some of the comments in this thread it seems the normal Chiltern Railways passengers are not happy with this(along with other services) becauses it misses out some other stops.  I may well have to hurry up and travel on this service before they ammend the timetable and add more stops in.

EDIT: Just realised the 1630 service isn't a Class 67.  Ah what a shame.  Nevertheless, London-Warwick nonstop onboard a Class 168 would still be interesting.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 28, 2011, 09:55:55
The 1650 is a 67 & coaches, I think


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: paul7575 on September 28, 2011, 10:20:02
The 1650 is a 67 & coaches, I think

Definitely is - I had a trip back to Banbury on that service.

The loco hauled Mainline (ie fast) trains are shown in the timetable headers with both an 'M' and an 'S'

http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/sites/default/files/September%202011%20Mainline%20services.pdf


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 13, 2011, 22:51:43
PPM for Period 6 is the worst that Chiltern has ever had! 83.7% punctuality & even just 87% Reliability

Seriously...87% reliability for period 6? That's dire. Assuming I'm interpreting correctly, that means they've cancelled 13% of trains during the period, right?

98.57% 'Reliability' for the last period according to the figures now released on the Chiltern website.  Where did you get the 87% figure from?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on October 14, 2011, 06:23:11
4 week period, not the rollong annual....


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: paul7575 on October 14, 2011, 11:20:58
98.57% is the 4 week period. 

The moving annual figure is showing as 99.14%.

Paul


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: eightf48544 on October 14, 2011, 13:11:51
I think this post shows how easy it is for a TOC with the best of intentions to make alterations to its timetable which then upset upset its existng customers.

This could be put down to on-rail competition Chiltern being anxious to grab some of the lucrative London Birmingham trade have put on fast trains to compete with Virgin out of Euston. In doing so they have managed to alienate their existing cliental south of Banbury. 

It would be a bit like FGW running most of its trains fast to  Swindon, Westbury or Oxford. I can understand how high Wycombe and Beconsfield feel.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on October 14, 2011, 13:57:59
That's *exactly* the scenario.....

98.57% 'Reliability' for the last period according to the figures now released on the Chiltern website.  Where did you get the 87% figure from?

It's punctuality you need to look at. Reliability is purely a reflection of number of trains run against the TT


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: paul7575 on October 14, 2011, 14:24:27
That's *exactly* the scenario.....

98.57% 'Reliability' for the last period according to the figures now released on the Chiltern website.  Where did you get the 87% figure from?

It's punctuality you need to look at. Reliability is purely a reflection of number of trains run against the TT

That's right - but in your reply #87 you stated that reliability was only 87% - presumably that's a typo then - as it doesn't appear in the published figures?

Paul


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on October 14, 2011, 14:26:32
Ok, I now see what you mean. I was taking figures from the poster at stations, not the website. I'll check tonight & reconfirm....


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 15, 2011, 16:25:31
Ok, I now see what you mean. I was taking figures from the poster at stations, not the website. I'll check tonight & reconfirm....

Thanks (and thanks to Paul for guiding ChrisB into the post that I was questioning!).

Is the overcrowding situation still as critical as it was immediately after the timetable introduction?  Chiltern have made some minor changes to strengthen a few of the problem trains, and promise more in December:

From 19 September 2011 we made some changes to train formations:
 
    0654 Bicester North to Marylebone was lengthened from 5 carriages to 6
    1825 Marylebone to High Wycombe was lengthened from 2 carriages to 3

We also made some additional changes from Monday, 3 October:
 
    0717 Banbury to Marylebone (0801 from Beaconsfield) was lengthened from 6 carriages to 7 carriages
    0542 Banbury to Marylebone was lengthened from 2 carriages to 3
    1822 from Marylebone will now call additionally at Beaconsfield

The next changes will be made for our December timetable and we will inform you of these changes in the last week of October.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on October 15, 2011, 17:19:22
Overcrowding still critical on roughly 6 six trains in each peak. Unfortunately for the poor commuters (but fortunately for Chiltern's business plan, it seems), extra pax are appearing West Midlands, meaning fewer seats & now overcrowding at Banbury / Bicester on one train too.

It's all very well to attract more long distance pax, but you've got to have sufficient capacity provision to carry all in comfort. Unfortunately, it isn't the new pax that is paying for it, but their captive commuters now not getting regular seats....

From my soundings, I'm not hearing (m)any major changes in Dec11 either. The two further 'silver trains' not due until May12, and that will start capacity problems at MYB where a 4car clubman & an other train can fit on one platform, but turn the 4car clubman into a silver train & that other train needs a different platform!

I'm not sure their stock/station infrastructure can cope once the Oxford services kick in too!

Re those punctuality figures - the posters state the following - there may be confusion between passenger charter punctuality (within 5 minutes in each peak) and the MAA punctuality (all trains within 5 minutes)

Pass Charter -
Period 6 - 83.7%
Annual - 92.1% (charter for compensation 92%)

MAA
Period 6 - 87.0%
Annual - 93.0%

Reliability figures on the poster were only quoted for charter, not MAA.

Period 6 - 98.6%
Annual - 99.1% (charter for compensation is 99%)

So, both pass charter marks are only 0.1% above payouts.

Period 7 finishes today - I'm told that the reliability has risen over the period, but punctuality hasn't, so 5% discount on renewals from next Saturday once published.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 16, 2011, 11:02:17
OK, so you misread the poster originally and the 'Reliability' figure on the poster was not saying 87% then?  I thought that was an incredibly low figure!

From my soundings, I'm not hearing (m)any major changes in Dec11 either. The two further 'silver trains' not due until May12, and that will start capacity problems at MYB where a 4car clubman & an other train can fit on one platform, but turn the 4car clubman into a silver train & that other train needs a different platform!

I too share your concerns on Marylebone being able to cope with the extra burden having more LHCS services will cause.

Period 7 finishes today - I'm told that the reliability has risen over the period, but punctuality hasn't, so 5% discount on renewals from next Saturday once published.

As for punctuality, I'd be surprised if it hasn't risen a fair bit since the previous periods 83.7%, but not enough to stop the MAA falling below the 5% discount trigger level.  I would guess the MAA will remain below that trigger level for several months, given the poor figures in the mid-80's% recorded earlier this year in Jan & Feb.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on October 16, 2011, 14:54:13
Its needed, commuters are definitely entitled to a discount fir the crap we've had since mid-August


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: paul7575 on October 16, 2011, 15:39:03
I'm not sure their stock/station infrastructure can cope once the Oxford services kick in too!

Isn't the idea that the Oxford services are diversions of existing services that terminate elsewhere, such as at Bicester or Banbury - so shouldn't increase the actual number of trains handled at Marylebone?

I agree completely with your point about the LHCS taking up more platform space though, and preventing 'top train working'...

Paul


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on October 16, 2011, 19:56:28
Only some of them....


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: albertvie on October 16, 2011, 21:18:35
Overcrowding still critical on roughly 6 six trains in each peak. Unfortunately for the poor commuters (but fortunately for Chiltern's business plan, it seems), extra pax are appearing West Midlands, meaning fewer seats & now overcrowding at Banbury / Bicester on one train too.

It's all very well to attract more long distance pax, but you've got to have sufficient capacity provision to carry all in comfort. Unfortunately, it isn't the new pax that is paying for it, but their captive commuters now not getting regular seats....

From my soundings, I'm not hearing (m)any major changes in Dec11 either. The two further 'silver trains' not due until May12, and that will start capacity problems at MYB where a 4car clubman & an other train can fit on one platform, but turn the 4car clubman into a silver train & that other train needs a different platform!

I'm not sure their stock/station infrastructure can cope once the Oxford services kick in too!

Re those punctuality figures - the posters state the following - there may be confusion between passenger charter punctuality (within 5 minutes in each peak) and the MAA punctuality (all trains within 5 minutes)

Pass Charter -
Period 6 - 83.7%
Annual - 92.1% (charter for compensation 92%)

MAA
Period 6 - 87.0%
Annual - 93.0%

Reliability figures on the poster were only quoted for charter, not MAA.

Period 6 - 98.6%
Annual - 99.1% (charter for compensation is 99%)

So, both pass charter marks are only 0.1% above payouts.

Period 7 finishes today - I'm told that the reliability has risen over the period, but punctuality hasn't, so 5% discount on renewals from next Saturday once published.

The full length of the platforms are rarely used currently. Silver sets can and do share platforms 1,2 and 3 and I'd expect 5 and 6 to be added to that list as they will be allowed 9 cars as soon as the paperwork allows


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 16, 2011, 21:23:49
Silver sets can and do share platforms 1,2 and 3 and I'd expect 5 and 6 to be added to that list as they will be allowed 9 cars as soon as the paperwork allows

Are Marylebone's platforms 5/6 not passed out for their full length yet then?  That would certainly counter problems caused by any additional loco-hauled services.  Welcome to the forum by the way.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: albertvie on October 16, 2011, 21:47:24
Silver sets can and do share platforms 1,2 and 3 and I'd expect 5 and 6 to be added to that list as they will be allowed 9 cars as soon as the paperwork allows

Are Marylebone's platforms 5/6 not passed out for their full length yet then?  That would certainly counter problems caused by any additional loco-hauled services.  Welcome to the forum by the way.

Thanks for the welcome :-)

5 and 6 have had 9 cars in but it's not officially passed. They've recently been remeasured to check the track circuits and the signal sightings and the paperwork is in progress...


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: paul7575 on October 17, 2011, 17:29:54
Only some of them....

The draft timetables published with the 73rd supplementary agreement are all I've got to go by, and in them all the morning peak arrivals (at least) at Marylebone from Oxford arrive at identical times to trains from Bicester North that have been removed.

I appreciate this may have been overtaken by more recent ideas, so if you know different perhaps you could explain a bit more?

Paul


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on October 18, 2011, 09:23:59
Interesting - does that include off-peak too?

They've made the Mainline TT work with that proposed in the supp agreement then....


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: paul7575 on October 18, 2011, 11:20:34
I don't think the current timetable is exactly the same as that consulted on in 2009, in particular the idea of regular Gerrards Cross all stations stoppers (expected to be run by the 172s IIRC) seems to have fallen by the wayside.  However the basic principle of no additional trains can be seen by comparing the Phase 1 and Phase 2 versions side by side.

Here's the link to save you another search - they include separate 24 hr timetable files by direction, day, and with and without Oxford:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browseDirectory.aspx?root=&dir=%5cTrack%20Access%5c2%20Completed%20Consultations%5c2009%5c2009.10.27%20Chiltern%20Railways%2073rd%20Supplemental%20Agreement%20-%20consultation%20closed%2023%20November%202009 (http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browseDirectory.aspx?root=&dir=%5cTrack%20Access%5c2%20Completed%20Consultations%5c2009%5c2009.10.27%20Chiltern%20Railways%2073rd%20Supplemental%20Agreement%20-%20consultation%20closed%2023%20November%202009)

Paul



Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Chafford1 on October 31, 2011, 19:34:00
Guy Gorton's excellent photos of the changing layout at Gerrards Cross shows why trains can run so much faster now:

http://www.meadwaypark.co.uk/ChilternGX/


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on October 31, 2011, 20:45:07
The Inspector reported to the Secretary of State a couple of weeks ago on the TWA application by Chiltern for their proposed Oxfotd services. The SoS has 6 months to decide, I believe


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 01, 2011, 04:09:48
Any clues as to the inspector's findings, or will that remain secret until a decision?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on November 01, 2011, 06:07:21
No clues unfortunately


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 05, 2011, 16:58:34
The latest monthly figures show that Chiltern had a much better period for punctuality and reliability.

Punctuality:  91.48% (last month 83.70%), though, as ChrisB predicted, that result was not enough to stop the Moving Annual Average drop below the all-important charter discount trigger of 92%.  With leaf-fall problems and possible bad weather to come over the following few periods, I wouldn't be surprised if they continue to trigger a discount for several months.

Reliability:  99.37%


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Chafford1 on November 07, 2011, 19:47:07
Chiltern's December timetable is published here:

http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/sites/default/files/December%202011%20Timetable%20booklet.pdf


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Chafford1 on November 08, 2011, 20:07:10
With extra carriages and more seats on some services  :)

http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/news/december-timetable
 


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: paul7575 on November 08, 2011, 20:14:29
Interesting how they can juggle the finite amount of stock and strengthen all those services.  I wonder if there is a comparable list of trains that are shrinking?  ???

Paul


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on November 08, 2011, 21:06:34
I suppose by advertising the trains with extra seats, they'l hope people rush for them, lessening the crush on the other services.

Are they adding more carriages to loco hauled trains/ using more loco hauled services?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: paul7575 on November 08, 2011, 21:20:35
Are they adding more carriages to loco hauled trains/ using more loco hauled services?

Neither, as far as a comparison of the linked table and the linked timetable is concerned.  (LHCS services being shown by an S or B in the column header.)   Previous discussions elsewhere suggest there is no more hauled stock available to Chiltern until May 2012 anyway.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on November 12, 2011, 21:20:00
The old unrefurbished LHCS stock is being replaced by one of the extra 'silver' LHCS sets in May12, so only a net gain if one, not two sets next year.

Not sure why they dont keep it on


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: paul7575 on November 12, 2011, 21:39:40
Maybe it is going in for refurbishment itself by then - I always thought the real deadline for needing all the LH stock they've gathered up was the start of the Oxford service?

(Not to be used FOR the Oxford service though, for clarification.  The Oxford service will use 168s - more LHCS will be needed for Birmingham services.)

Paul 


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on November 13, 2011, 17:46:46
Agreed...although they badly need to reassess their LHCS provision - more 16x series already needed elsewhere on their network, so the sooner they are introduced, the less overcrowding they'll suffer


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 16, 2012, 13:15:38
Some fairly major changes to the Chiltern service from May.  Designed to improve punctuality and reduce crowding there are full details here:  http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/sites/default/files/01_0%20CRCL%20May%2012%20Timetable%20Introduction%20Public.pdf (http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/sites/default/files/01_0%20CRCL%20May%2012%20Timetable%20Introduction%20Public.pdf)

Some real positives including a super quick 34 minute London to Haddenham peak service in the evening, as well as targeted train lengthening. Though one area of concern is that they are reducing the off-peak service levels at Seer Green and Northolt Park from two trains per hour, to one train per hour.  I can see Barry Doe being negative about this as one of his bees in his bonnet is the level of services at the inner Chiltern stations!  This will hopefully help punctuality as there will be one less stopping train path per hour operating between Gerrards Cross and High Wycombe.  Personally, I don't think that the reduction at Seer Green is too much of an issue, but the Northolt Park one is disappointing - given that the train will still be running past the station.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on March 16, 2012, 14:47:07
The current loadings are very disappointing.....use it lose it is never truer in times of austerity....

I'm againstthe HDM improvement - they've already got a decent-enough service while those using that train further up the line see it get slower & slower, and fuler & fuller....


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: paul7575 on March 16, 2012, 14:58:35
Wasn't there some debate a while back about why they weren't actually terminating more services at Gerrrards Cross, which after all is why they provided a new turnback siding and certain details of the resignalling. 

IIRC one of the earlier timetable proposals that appeared with the relevant track access application suggested that the 172s would be dedicated to a Marylebone - Gerrards Cross all stations stopper, and it was a bit of a surprise that this never happened...

Paul


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on March 17, 2012, 16:50:39
IIRC one of the earlier timetable proposals that appeared with the relevant track access application suggested that the 172s would be dedicated to a Marylebone - Gerrards Cross all stations stopper, and it was a bit of a surprise that this never happened...

As I remember, in the earlier timetables (for both phase 1 and 2) there was 1tph stopper from Gerrards Cross, and another 1tph starting at West Ruislip (using the 172s).  Both of those were supposed to make a Northolt Park stop to retain the twice-hourly service.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: paul7575 on March 17, 2012, 17:26:36
That's right - this was the phase 1 version of the timetable for weekdays southbound:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20documents/track%20access/2%20completed%20consultations/2009/2009.10.27%20chiltern%20railways%2073rd%20supplemental%20agreement%20-%20consultation%20closed%2023%20november%202009/eg3%20phase%201%20weekday%20bhm-myb.pdf

...and this was the relevant 73rd TAA (Nov 2009) wording about 172s:

Quote
Faster new Class 172 rolling stock for the inner London station calls south of Gerrards Cross facilitate some of the additional capacity, by enabling an increased number of train paths to run with main line services having fewer station calls. The timetable structure has been designed to maximise capacity by running the new class 172 units on stopping services to Gerrards Cross and West Ruislip enabling the majority of other services to run non stop to Gerrards Cross or beyond.

Paul


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on March 17, 2012, 18:03:39
Looks as though they've changed their minds then? THey can. running what was in the application isn't necessary....


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: paul7575 on March 17, 2012, 18:14:34
Looks as though they've changed their minds then? THey can. running what was in the application isn't necessary....

I know - as you keep reminding us. 

But what I was suggesting is that they are getting nearer to the detail of what was in that application, for whatever reason...

Paul


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on April 05, 2012, 11:46:42
Worth a watch, and just shows how straight the track is between Bicester and Princes Risborough, but I'm not sure what the stop at Bicester North and sheep noises are all about?

http://railwayeye.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/chiltern-railways-orchestra-of-swan.html (http://railwayeye.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/chiltern-railways-orchestra-of-swan.html)



Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on April 05, 2012, 12:15:41
Indeed! Bit of a continuity problem at Bicester North methinks....


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on April 08, 2012, 13:20:10
Noticed this a while back, but forgot to post.

The 25, 50 and 75 fares have already changed to 25, 50 and 85.

http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/content/more-ticket-information

I have to say, I dislike having the same price fare for multiple stations. It's ridiculous that it costs the same for a Super Off Peak return from KID and Warwick with over an hour's journey time!


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on April 08, 2012, 14:49:19
Would be a little ridiculous if it were true.

Kidderminster - London Marylebone with Chiltern - Anytime Return ^95 (^55 SVR, ^25 SSR)
Warwick - London Marylebone with Chiltern - Anytime Return ^85 (^50 SVR, ^25 SSR)

When the ^75, ^50, ^25 fares were introduced by Chiltern last July, stations beyond Birmingham to Kidderminster were not included. Prior to January's price rises, Kidderminster - London Terminals via High Wycombe was ^85 SOR, ^55 SVR, ^25 SSR.

 ;)


EDIT NOTE: This reply was in response to Btline's post, before it was edited, that mentioned the Anytime fare from Kidderminster and made no mention of Super Off Peak Returns. I was pointing out that there is a difference between fares from Kidderminster and Warwick at two of the three walk-up price points.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on April 08, 2012, 16:03:42
I understand that, I was talking about a Super off Peak return. ;)

Anyway, my main point is the neat 25 / 50 / 75 has gone! I thought it would last  bit longer!

What will happen in future? Wait a few years and then raise by ^5?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on April 08, 2012, 16:16:01
The SSP is the regulated fare, so up to RPI+?% in future


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on April 08, 2012, 16:45:04
I understand that, I was talking about a Super off Peak return. ;)

Who were you talking to about that then? I didn't hear or see it.

You posted:
Quote
The Anytime is 95 for Kidderminster

 ::)



Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on April 08, 2012, 17:59:59
Have edited my post to make it clearer. I'm talking about the ^25 fare that is the same for many stations, some an hour apart.

It's also interesting that there are increases in the Anytime fares, I expect passenger numbers have increased a lot. The car park at Warwick Pway is due to be expanded yet again!


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on April 08, 2012, 21:32:52
As is Solihull - its getting a deck


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on April 08, 2012, 22:13:00
As is Solihull - its getting a deck

So Solihul gets taken over by Chiltern and then immediately gets a deck. I wish Chiltern took over more stations! :'(


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on May 03, 2012, 15:51:59
Passengers have been deserting Virgin and LM in their droves. Passengers on Chiltern Mainline are up 53% - a jaw dropping figure in the current economic climate.

Chiltern have proved so popular with commuters from Solihull and Warwick Parkway that multimillion pound car park extensions are taking place to cope with the surge in numbers. Further extra capacity will be introduced later this year in a programme of improvements:

*newly refurbished carriages with automatic doors to reduce delays
*an extra carriage for each loco hauled train adding hundreds of seats per day
*an extra loco hauled train adding further seats
*enhanced WiFi for busy commuters
*improved catering with Credit Card facilities introduced
*new restaurant at Birmingham Moor Street
*barcode tickets available

All this, of course, is following the ^250 million Evergreen 3 investment which was achieved without any direct Government subsidy.

Some services are now so packed that Anytime fares will have to increase by ^10 later this year to prevent sardine conditions, albeit a modest increase compared to Virgin's sky high prices and draconian restrictions.

Well done Chiltern! :)


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: EBrown on May 03, 2012, 15:59:18
*newly refurbished carriages with automatic doors to reduce delays
*an extra carriage for each loco hauled train adding hundreds of seats per day
*an extra loco hauled train adding further seats
*enhanced WiFi for busy commuters
*improved catering with Credit Card facilities introduced
*new restaurant at Birmingham Moor Street
*barcode tickets available
What was your source pleas?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on May 03, 2012, 16:34:57
I suspect a bastardised press release / briefing.

Although as always with BTLine, slightly exaggerated.....(e.g. headline % only at one station, not in total)


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on May 03, 2012, 16:49:14
Passengers have been deserting Virgin and LM in their droves. Passengers on Chiltern Mainline are up 53% - a jaw dropping figure in the current economic climate.

Nicely done quoting a figure like that without context. The 53% refers to Solihull station only. The only source of that figure I can find is from a blog post (see below). Even then that is way more than the increase in official station usage figures. The latest figures released in February 2012 for the year to April 2011 show that Solihull's footfall was 1,535,210. Up from the previous year's figure of 1,487,994. An increase of 6.99%. Now of course passengers using Chiltern at Solihull could have increased by 53% and that could be over a different time period than station usage statistics, but without a source it's difficult to take Btline's figure seriously. Particularly when he states that the 53% refers to Chiltern Mainline.

Some services are now so packed that Anytime fares will have to increase by ^10 later this year to prevent sardine conditions, albeit a modest increase compared to Virgin's sky high prices and draconian restrictions.

That really is badly out of context. How can you compare Chiltern's Anytime fare with Virgin's 'sky high prices and draconian restrictions'? The correct comparison is with Virgin's Anytime fare which has no restrictions, draconian or otherwise.  ::) I'll  slightly concede the point about 'sky high' though. ^154 (Virgin Anytime Return) is a bit steep compared to ^95 (Chiltern Anytime Return). BUT if you're comparing price only then London Midland comes out on top with an Anytime Return of ^65.

Do note also that Chiltern's Anytime Return has gone through two price increases since September 2011. From May 20th it will have increased ^20 from ^75 to ^95. That's a 26.7% increase in just 8 months, and you call it modest Btline? Over the same period Virgin's Anytime return will have increased by 3.6% and London Midland's by 0%.
(Fares information from previous, current and the next National Fares Manuals)

What was your source please?

Btline's source appears to be a blog post here: http://birmingham2london.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/more-good-news-from-chiltern-railways.html There's very little information as to who the writer of the blog is.

Btline appears to have lifted text, rewritten bits of it and hasn't attributed the source. Fine if Btline wrote the blog post himself, borderline plagiarism if he didn't.  ::) :-\

I can find no direct information from Chiltern Railways regarding the list of improvements Btline lifted from the blog post so until such time as Chiltern explicitly state all these improvements are coming it would, I believe, be merely conjecture.

I suspect a bastardised press release / briefing.

Although as always with BTLine, slightly exaggerated.....(e.g. headline % only at one station, not in total)

Slightly exaggerated? You are too kind ChrisB.



Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on May 03, 2012, 17:26:23
Btline's source appears to be a blog post here: http://birmingham2london.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/more-good-news-from-chiltern-railways.html There's very little information as to who the writer of the blog is.

I know & can vouch for the blogger.....

Quote
Btline appears to have lifted text, rewritten bits of it and hasn't attributed the source. Fine if Btline wrote the blog post himself, borderline plagiarism if he didn't.  ::) :-\

Borderline plagiarism I reckon. I read the blog just after it was posted last night and conversed with him about it. THe only thing I didn't do was ask him his source as I assumed Chiltern had put out a press release. Assuming you've checked Chiltern's website press release page and there's nowt there, I'll ask him tonight - I'm sure he'll be informative about it....


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on May 03, 2012, 17:31:46
Sorry, forgot to add the link. http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/westmidlands/news/317382-chiltern-plans-mainline-growth-but-warns-fares-will-rise.html

Don't you think it's an excellent achievement? Have scanned the above, but it seems rather negative to me.
I think these passengers rises are amazing, and relevant to FGW territory with the forthcoming Evergreen 3!


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on May 03, 2012, 17:47:32
For those that don't wish to go through the full registration process (which is free) to read the full article Btline has just linked to, I've taken the trouble.

From TheBusinessDesk.com (http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/westmidlands/news/317382-chiltern-plans-mainline-growth-but-warns-fares-will-rise.html?)

Quote
CHILTERN Railways^ Mainline services to London have continued to prove popular with Birmingham^s business community with the company seeing a 41% year-on-year growth in passenger numbers in the six months since launch.

Such is the growth, that the rail company has announced it will introduce extra capacity on the service from later this year.

However, it has said ticket prices will have to rise in order to fund a programme of improvements.

Figures released by the company show passengers using the Mainline service from Solihull and Warwick Parkway have also grown during the first six months, up by a respective 53% and 32% year-on-year.

Improvements planned for the remainder of this year include:
^    A new, completely refurbished additional ^Silver^ train will be operational from December.
^    Chiltern^s current intercity-style silver trains will be refurbished and fitted with automatic doors.  The first of these updated trains will arrive later this month.
^    Silver trains will be lengthened by a carriage by the end of the year providing 70 more seats per train.
^    Free Wi-Fi on the silver trains will be upgraded to ensure faster connections.
^    Onboard catering will be overhauled.
^    Birmingham Moor Street will gain a bar/restaurant.
^    Car parks will be expanded accommodate the growth in passenger numbers. 
o    A new parking deck at Solihull will open this month, creating 163 additional spaces.
o    A new parking deck will also open at Warwick Parkway, delivering 222 additional spaces.  To provide sufficient capacity during the build, Chiltern has already opened a temporary car park at the station.
^    All West Midlands to London services available via the company^s smartphone app, allowing passengers to move away from paper tickets altogether.

Thomas Ableman, Chiltern^s commercial director, said: ^We^re absolutely delighted to announce our 2012 improvements at the same time as publishing record results. 

^Mainline was created in Birmingham by the business community and our figures prove this type of service is what the market wants.  Our 2012 improvements are in response to customer feedback and we^ll continue to listen and innovate as Mainline grows.^

As with the ^250m investment in Mainline, the 2012 improvements will be funded without taxpayer support.

However, the company said that as it received no Government subsidy, it would have to put up peak fares in order to support the new investment.

This means the Anytime ticket for passengers arriving in London before 10am will increase by ^10 to ^95 (^90 from Leamington Spa) from May 20.  The firm said it still believed the new ticket offered value for money.

Off-peak and super off-peak fares are not affected by the changes and remain at ^50 (^45 from Leamington Spa) and ^25 respectively.

No reason now to doubt the veracity of the story and the list of upcoming improvements, but as yet, and as far as I can ascertain, Chiltern haven't said anything or issued a press release. A slightly obscure Business website seems a bit of a strange place to have these improvements announced.

You'll also note I've not selectively rewritten or quoted out of context and I have included the source. It's not difficult.  :-X


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on May 03, 2012, 17:52:43
You'll note I have included the source. it's not difficult.  :-X

Sorry, I forgot. I was too excited by the proposals and jawdropping figures!  :'(

I prefer summaries - who wants to read all the spin in that article. ;D Glad you believe me now.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on May 03, 2012, 18:00:13
Glad you believe me now.

I believe the article now that I've read it at source. I didn't believe your additional hyperbole and lack of context for facts and figures.

If you get a little excited about things like this, do please consider this forum's wider readership. Much better to be factual and accurate and quote source material then add your personal opinions.

Are you also excited about the jawdropping price increase on the Birmingham to London Chiltern Anytime Return? Up 26.7% since September 2011.....  :o :P

You'll note I have included the source. it's not difficult.  :-X

Lawks. Even I'm being selectively rewritten.....  :o ::) :(


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: TonyK on May 03, 2012, 18:03:50
This is excellent news, and shows what can be done without demanding public cash - I hope. I am perplexed by the logic that too many passengers must mean higher fares. OK, you have to lease a new carriage to get an extra 70 seats per train, which costs money, but unless I've missed something, you get 70 extra fares per train.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on May 03, 2012, 18:34:09
OK, you have to lease a new carriage to get an extra 70 seats per train, which costs money,

Will it cost Chiltern money though? The current Mk3 spares they intend to use are already owned by Chiltern's parent company Arriva Trains UK, the UK arm of DB Regio.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on May 03, 2012, 18:54:49
The mouth watering car parking expansions will also get bums on seats! People will switch to rail if they know they can park without the stressful drive around, searching for a space, mopping their brow as the departure time approaches...

Chiltern currently get passengers from Shropshire at Warwick Parkway, who knows where they'll extend their sphere now...!


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: inspector_blakey on May 03, 2012, 19:14:41
Btline, you are Tom Ableman, and I claim my five pounds.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Southern Stag on May 03, 2012, 19:33:10
OK, you have to lease a new carriage to get an extra 70 seats per train, which costs money, but unless I've missed something, you get 70 extra fares per train.
Useful extra capacity in the peaks but off peak the 70 extra seats aren't needed in my experience. I recently travelled on one of the Loco Hauled 'Silver Trains' which are being lengthened for a round trip from London to Birmingham and back. I took the 1337 service from London Marylebone and it was very lightly loaded, that was despite some very cheap fares, my ticket was 25p each way. The 1555 return service was much busier, but still plenty of seats to go round.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on May 03, 2012, 20:38:44
Btline, you are Tom Ableman, and I claim my five pounds.

<Like>  ;D

http://www.transportxtra.com/magazines/new_transit/news/?ID=23374


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on May 03, 2012, 20:42:46
you're wrong

i actually work for fgw my love

 :P


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on May 03, 2012, 21:09:17
you're wrong

i actually work for fgw my love

 :P

Very good riposte. Even matching the style and poor grammar. Made I laugh.  ;D

OK, you are 'maryfgw' (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?action=profile;u=44142;sa=showPosts) and I want the fiver.  ;) :P ;D


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Ollie on May 03, 2012, 23:51:09
Glad you believe me now.

Are you also excited about the jawdropping price increase on the Birmingham to London Chiltern Anytime Return? Up 26.7% since September 2011.....  :o :P

Seems as if Btline missed it ;P


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: inspector_blakey on May 04, 2012, 03:27:04
you're wrong

i actually work for fgw my love

 :P

Very good riposte. Even matching the style and poor grammar. Made I laugh.  ;D

OK, you are 'maryfgw' (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?action=profile;u=44142;sa=showPosts) and I want the fiver.  ;) :P ;D

Nice one Btline! Although are we sure maryfgw would know the difference between "your" and "you're"...?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: MrBusyBob on May 09, 2012, 20:47:04
Does anyone know if the 2000 Marylebone - Moor St loco-hauled? Saturday 12th May I'm travelling.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: paul7575 on May 09, 2012, 21:11:45
Does anyone know if the 2000 Marylebone - Moor St loco-hauled? Saturday 12th May I'm travelling.

The loco hauled sets don't operate on Saturdays or Sundays normally, only as per the Mon - Fri timetabled services.

Paul 
 


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 09, 2012, 21:14:07
Welcome to the Coffee Shop forum, MrBusyBob.  :)


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on May 12, 2012, 18:37:08
The first set of Chiltern Mk3s to be fitted with powered plug doors has left Doncaster's Wabtec works and is now at Wembley LMD. A picture of the set heading toward Wembley can be seen here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/65580215@N02/7177766646/

ECS testing of the set begins on the Chiltern route from Monday. Timings as follows:

5R00 Wembley LMD - Birmingham Moor St M-F 14/05/12-25/05/12

Wembley LMD dep 1059
Wembley Stadium arr 1100 dep 1101
Sudbury & Harrow Rd arr 1104 dep 1105
Sudbury Hill Harrow arr 1107 dep 1109
Northolt Park arr 1111 dep 1112
South Ruislip arr 1115 dep 1130
Denham arr 1135 dep 1135
Denham Golf Club arr 1136 dep 1138
Seer Green +Jordans arr 1143 dep 1145
Beaconsfield arr 1147 dep 1147
Saunderton arr 1157 dep 1158
Princes Risborough arr 1203 dep 1210
Haddenham +Thame Parkway arr 1215 dep 1217
Warwick arr 1301 dep 1302
Hatton arr 1307 dep 1309
Widney Manor arr 1318 dep 1319
Solihull arr 1322 dep 1323
Birmingham Moor St arr 1336

Returns as:-

5H02 1424 Birmingham Moor St - Wembley LMD

Birmingham Moor St dep 1424
Dorridge Up Goods Loop arr 1434 dep 1443
Leamington Spa arr 1455

Timings courtesy of Anthony263 over at RailUK forums.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 16, 2012, 13:38:50
Anyone (ChrisB?) got any news as to how the public enquiry re-opening is progressing?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on May 16, 2012, 14:01:20
It hasn't reopened yet!

Next Tuesday week, I think, just before the ultra-long Jubilee bank holiday!


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on May 16, 2012, 14:03:48
Many thanks.  Any updates you (or others) get throughout it would be appreciated.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: mjones on May 16, 2012, 20:00:37
No doubt some obscure point of law will be raised, enabling our learned friends to request an adjournment for another few months, the legal bills mounting while nothing useful gets built...


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on May 16, 2012, 23:37:08
Why can't they relocate the Newts like they have with Airport Junction. >:(


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 16, 2012, 23:48:42
Who said anything about newts??  :o

Calm down, dear!  ;D


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on May 28, 2012, 08:03:49
A selection of photos of the refurbished Chiltern Mk3s, showing the interiors and vestibules and a range of shots of the retrofitted powered doors:

http://plumbloco.smugmug.com/Trains/May-2012/22831126_ZKDCtK#i=1842699282&k=xr8Ctr7

(There's five pages of photos via that link, although some are of other railway scenes)

Looking good, although I would have liked to see the IC70 seats in Standard Class replaced with something a bit more modern, rather than just refurbishing and reupholstering. Those fixed armrests and the low seat height can be a pain in the, er.... butt.

Chiltern Railways have said on Facebook that the refurbished and retrofitted Mk3 set has entered revenue earning service this morning. One assumes they've put it on the flagship 90 minute service from Moor Street to Marylebone at 0655.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: anthony215 on May 28, 2012, 19:15:37
I think it was booked the 06:19 from Birmingham - London Marylebone this morning.

A word of warning though is that the set is currently in reverse formation


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Southern Stag on May 28, 2012, 19:44:14
Reverse formation is the new standard formation apparently, first business class will lead towards London now, to do with the use of the new generators in the DVT apparently.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on May 29, 2012, 08:57:32
Allows them to stable loco away from houses in Wembley depot


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on May 29, 2012, 09:50:48
It makes sense, as commuters who have shelled out for business class won't want an extra walk at London. They'll want to be straight through the barriers.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: paul7575 on May 29, 2012, 11:54:21
A word of warning though is that the set is currently in reverse formation

Why 'warning'?   ???

Is it more risky having it that way round or something?

Paul


Title: Chiltern December 2012 Timetable Consultation
Post by: Chafford1 on June 04, 2012, 12:35:49
Here:

http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/news/december-2012-timetable-consultation


The current 90 minute 6.55 train from Moor Street arriving Marylebone 8.25, now starts at 6.56 and has an additional stop at Leamington Spa at 7.22 arriving Marylebone 8.30 (94 minutes in total).


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on June 04, 2012, 12:40:05
Indeed - fewer trains means more stops....they seem to have given up on the 90 minute headline journey.

btw - the powered door set was the 'right' way around this morning, on the 0615 ex BMO, but no quiet zone coach at the front. BZ at the rear.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Southern Stag on June 04, 2012, 16:45:38
The 90 minute London-Birmingham train is a sham anyway. Booked to arrive in the Working Timetable at 18:02 1/2, booked to arrive in the public timetable at 1800, necessary for the 90 minute timing. The train before through the platform at Birmingham Moor Street is booked to leave at 17:59 1/2, so the chances of it ever arriving at 18:00 are pretty slim.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on June 04, 2012, 17:18:44
The train before through the platform at Birmingham Moor Street is booked to leave at 17:59 1/2, so the chances of it ever arriving at 18:00 are pretty slim.

Bear in mind the LHCS service uses the terminating platforms at BMO, not the through platform. So could be over the points at 1759 potentially.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on June 04, 2012, 18:55:01
It would be better for Chiltern to redistribute the stops on B'ham trains, so both take the same time to get to London (bar peak time expresses).

Both should also run through to Snow Hill as they did before so commuters can reach the Snow Hill business area more easily.

The Leamington Spa - Moor Street service should be axed, and given over to London Midland to integrate into their Snow Hill core service.

Did someone say FEWER TRAINS? How does this work. I though the problem was that they needed more trains?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Southern Stag on June 04, 2012, 19:19:38
The train before through the platform at Birmingham Moor Street is booked to leave at 17:59 1/2, so the chances of it ever arriving at 18:00 are pretty slim.

Bear in mind the LHCS service uses the terminating platforms at BMO, not the through platform. So could be over the points at 1759 potentially.
Not the 90 minute service though. It's the 1630 London Marylebone-Birmingham Snow Hill, so has to use the through platform at Moor Street as does the service half a minute before. It's formed of a 168 rather than the LHCS as well, the LHCS services on the London-Birmingham services don't run the super fast 90 minute services.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ellendune on June 04, 2012, 19:38:34
I thought that the Moor Street terminal platforms were brought back into use because of lcak of capacity either at Snow Hill or in the tunnel.  If this is the case you can't have all trains going through to Snow Hill. 


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Southern Stag on June 04, 2012, 19:59:35
Chiltern wanted to start services at Moor Street so passengers who'd been shopping in Birmingham could turn up early and get on early, like they would on Virgin at New Street.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on June 05, 2012, 10:20:01
btw - the powered door set was the 'right' way around this morning, on the 0615 ex BMO, but no quiet zone coach at the front. BZ at the rear.

The BZ coach has now gone for repair! so its running as a 4 coach train now.

Fewer, but supposedly longer trains.

Take your point about the 1630.....


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: mjones on June 05, 2012, 21:50:37
Many thanks.  Any updates you (or others) get throughout it would be appreciated.


According to this local paper:

http://www.buckinghamtoday.co.uk/news/business/decision-due-over-130m-rail-scheme-1-3911268

"The inquiry is due to end on June 13, and the planning inspector^s recommendations could be published in the autumn."

'could be', by the autumn! How on Earth can this be dragged on for so long?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ellendune on June 05, 2012, 22:23:55
'could be', by the autumn! How on Earth can this be dragged on for so long?

Because every unpopular decision (in areas where people have enouugh money) is now challenged by judicial review.  This has now made up for any saving  in time for planning!


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 05, 2012, 22:24:27
Thanks for that 'mjones' - sadly the wheels roll very slowly for decisions over everything these days and the railways are one of the worst affected it seems!

As for additional Leamington Spa stops, I'm not surprised.  There is very little time penalty in stopping a train at Leamington Spa as the speed on the through lines is a very slow 35mph maximum, so why miss out custom at one of your larger centres on the route when very little actual time is gained by missing it?  Banbury is a different case though, with a linespeed of 75mph, so I would be surprised to see stops there added on the current fast services that pass by in the peaks.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 13, 2012, 10:41:09
Good to see Chiltern's punctuality back to acceptable standards following the post-Mainline launch dip.  The last three months have been well over 94% with 95.59% recorded for April.  They've been meeting charter payment season ticket discount thresholds for 'punctuality' for the last three months now (just) and 'reliability' never did dip below that threshold and is now way ahead of it at 99.34% - higher than it was before the Mainline services started.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on June 13, 2012, 13:27:06
The power doors should help even more. And the new timetable.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 13, 2012, 13:55:20
The power doors should help even more. And the new timetable.

...with its reduction in total number of trains serving the suburban stations.  :-\


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on June 13, 2012, 15:05:21
Yes, those people will be so hard done by, having to walk a few hundred yards to their nearest Tube station or catching the number 32 that runs every 3 minutes... ::)


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: grahame on June 13, 2012, 17:15:06
Yes, those people will be so hard done by, having to walk a few hundred yards to their nearest Tube station or catching the number 32 that runs every 3 minutes... ::)

Bus route 32 only runs every 12 minutes ... and my geography of north west London is poor, but I don't think that Kilburn and Edgware are on the Chiltern line.  I suspect you're suggesting an alternative that doesn't exist.  Perhaps better in "the Rumour Mill" ...



Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on June 13, 2012, 17:28:37
It was a made up bus number, reflecting the high frequency of buses in London, even in the suburbs.
Although, Kilbrun isn't **that** far away from the area I was tlking about, so good guess I say.
Every 12 minutes is still better than most rail services.
Kilburn station is one that will probably close in the future when the Bakerloo is extended to Watford.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on June 17, 2012, 22:03:57
It was a made up bus number ...

... as is so much of your posting, Btline: it has been pointed out before that, if you do want to be taken seriously on this forum, you really ought to rein in your imagination and post rather more factual items ...  ::)


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on June 18, 2012, 01:18:48
Why does it matter? I was quite clearly pointing out the fact that there are very frequent bus services in London, especially central London. The number is 100% irrelevant to the post.

If I'd known, I'd written bus X. But I don't see the problem. Had someone else written this, I would not have immediately checked my guide to London buses, I would have understood the point being made and moved on. Whether the number is correct, a mistake or made up doesn't make a difference.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: grahame on June 18, 2012, 05:57:52
Quote
Why does it matter?

OK ... I was the one who followed up in this case and posted "err - not the 32", so I'll tell you why it mattered to me

Quote
Had someone else written this, I would not have immediately checked my guide to London buses, I would have understood the point being made and moved on.

So - why did I take a look at a guide to London bus routes?   Because I wanted to move on and check the transit time from suburban station to near Marylebone of the mythical route 32.  You may have a point, Btline, but I wanted to take a look at journey duration too which was something you hadn't raised. A bus service that takes a little longer but runs very frequently indeed may compensate for an infrequent train service, but I needed to find how long the bus took prior to commenting ...

My research told me that the No, 18 bus runs, frequently, from Sudbury and Harrow Road to Baker Street, and takes about 45 minutes (offpeak) to about 60 minutes (peak) to make that journey. As it doubles the time in the rush hour, and as my geography of Sudbury / Harrow doesn't tell me how "Sudbury and Harrow Road" relates to "Sudbury Hill Harrow", I decided I didn't have a strong case to post (accurately) further and let it go.  I much prefer a strong technical discussion (had the original post been accurate) to which questions and discussions could have followed up than answering an earlier post where I would have been in further "correction mode".

Side story We've had a very serious look at the direct bus alternative from Trowbridge to Swindon to the direct train - this crossover option is an interesting one. The direct bus takes over 60 minutes, the train just 34.  The former is an impractical commute for many, that latter very practical indeed if there are services in both directions at the time the commuter wishes to use them.

Summary - a high standard of accuracy makes for a stronger case, and gives a degree of authority to what you post.  A history of impractical suggestions and inaccuracies wastes the time of others in providing corrections to poorly research article, to the extent that they get frustrated and may not even bother.

You've brought back memories of a delightful flight I took from Mexico City to Gatwick - rather than sleeping, I spent almost all of the night discussing the social status and interaction of forum members (on forums in general) with the person next to me ... and how the posting habits of individuals can effect the way the rest of the group views them, over and above their official status that's based on the number of posts. In fact she was coming back to London from Argentina to complete a thesis on it - and a split ticket at Mexico City was a cheaper way to fly.  Which brings me to thinking about the fares consultation  ;D


ref:
http://www.londonbusroutes.net/times/018N018.htm
http://www.wellho.net/mouth/2317_How-to-make-a-Risotto-PHP-build-style-.html
http://www.wellho.net/mouth/3641_Swindon-to-Trowbridge-transport-and-travel-options.html


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 21, 2012, 10:36:26
All is not well at other stations either with proposed cuts at Beaconsfield of 22% of their daily trains causing anger:

http://www.buckinghamshireadvertiser.co.uk/south-buckinghamshire-news/local-buckinghamshire-advertiser-news/2012/06/20/82398-31225761/ (http://www.buckinghamshireadvertiser.co.uk/south-buckinghamshire-news/local-buckinghamshire-advertiser-news/2012/06/20/82398-31225761/)


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on June 26, 2012, 00:26:46
Quote
New multi-million pound station car park at Warwick Parkway to create additional 222 spaces

Today Chiltern Railways is commencing work on a ^2.5 million car park deck at Warwick Parkway, creating an extra 222 much needed spaces.
The new decking area, which is due to be opened in December, will bring the number of spaces at the station up to 959, helping to accommodate present and future rail passengers from the region.
This follows the ^250 million upgrade of the Chiltern line that has seen huge growth in the number of people travelling from the station.  Since the launch of Chiltern Mainline, Warwick Parkway has grown by 32% year on year.
To minimise disruption during the build Chiltern Railways have opened an additional temporary car park at the station with 171 spaces.
Malcolm Holmes, General Manager Mainline at Chiltern Railways said:  ^The launch of Mainline has resulted in a dramatic increase in passengers travelling from Warwick Parkway with thousands of commuters using our service every week.^
^The new deck will create an additional 222 spaces to meet the rise in demand and demonstrates our commitment to providing the best travel experience.^
The expansion has been financed and delivered by Chiltern Railways with ^1 million funding from the Department for Transport.
Rail Minister Theresa Villiers added:
^I am delighted that we are able to announce the investment for this considerable car park extension at Warwick Parkway, there is no doubt that this will encourage more people to travel by train.^
^Adding additional car park capacity will mean more spaces for passengers, easing congestion and helping improve overall journey satisfaction.^

Excellent innovation by Chiltern, opening a temporary car park during the construction to ease the effect on already stressed commuters.

http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/news/new-multi-million-pound-station-car-park-warwick-parkway-create-additional-222-spaces-0


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: devon_metro on June 26, 2012, 02:27:55


Excellent innovation by Chiltern, opening a temporary car park during the construction to ease the effect on already stressed commuters.


Are Chiltern passengers generally quite stressed then? I was under the impression that Chiltern was gods gift to the earth!


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on June 26, 2012, 09:34:19
To be fair, at Warwick Parkway there is the land available to open up a temporary car park, which is not the case at many locations - Charlbury, for example.  Though you have to be impressed with a 1000 space car park at a station which is only 12 years old!  I'd be interested to see how many extra car park spaces have been provided at Chiltern stations over the last five or so years.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Bristolboy on June 28, 2012, 21:05:29
To be fair, at Warwick Parkway there is the land available to open up a temporary car park, which is not the case at many locations - Charlbury, for example.  Though you have to be impressed with a 1000 space car park at a station which is only 12 years old!  I'd be interested to see how many extra car park spaces have been provided at Chiltern stations over the last five or so years.

Would be interesting to see and not only for chiltern. Surprised such a big subsidy was required to build it though-i would have thought the revenue of increased parking charges and ticket sales etc would have been enough to cover it!


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on July 07, 2012, 11:13:05
It probably is - but then Chiltern wouldn't see the revenue as profit, which they say they badly need.

btw - reverting to the Inspector's report from the Oxford enquiry, he can only submit his report while the House is sitting. As they break up next week until after the Party conferences (other than a week or so before), October is about as early as it can be accepted.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Richard Fairhurst on July 07, 2012, 18:11:56
To be fair, at Warwick Parkway there is the land available to open up a temporary car park, which is not the case at many locations - Charlbury, for example.
There was a temporary car park at Charlbury during the redoubling work: FGW used the cricket club car park opposite. We're a little puzzled as to why they haven't done the same during the current car park extension works.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: paul7575 on July 07, 2012, 18:49:42
btw - reverting to the Inspector's report from the Oxford enquiry, he can only submit his report while the House is sitting. As they break up next week until after the Party conferences (other than a week or so before), October is about as early as it can be accepted.

Are you completely sure about that? 

TWA Order enquiry inspectors reports (that I've found online) are all addressed to the Secretary of State. I just found for instance that the Hitchin flyover report went to the S of S dated 06 August 2010 - well into the summer recess.  I can't see why parliament sitting is necessary - the reports are dealt with by the S of S, who works all year round surely?

I've subsequently found decision letters published in late July and September, so during the recess.  They seem to be normally signed by the civil servant head of the TWA Order unit, on behalf of the S of S...

Paul


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on July 07, 2012, 20:25:22
The SoS is an MP. Do they work all year round, or only when House is sitting? Does the Permanent Secretary (a civil servant) not run the Dept during recess?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ellendune on July 07, 2012, 20:40:40
The SoS is an MP. Do they work all year round, or only when House is sitting? Does the Permanent Secretary (a civil servant) not run the Dept during recess?

The SoS does indeed work all the year round except for normal holidays.  When she is not working a junior minister is in charge of the department. 


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: paul7575 on July 07, 2012, 20:51:31
AIUI this is the difference between being in parliament, and being in the government.  Effectively all the latter (which includes the cabinet and all the various levels of Minister of State etc) are full time jobs with fairly normal holidays, and if a Minister or 'Secretary' is away an appropriate political deputy takes over.  The supporting civil servants cover all year anyway.

Paul


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on July 08, 2012, 23:31:12
Looks as if all the investent has paid off:

http://www.kidderminstershuttle.co.uk/news/business_daily/9793198._Chiltern_Railways_rated_top_for_stations_/?ref=rss

Quote
Chiltern Railways rated top for stations
PASSENGERS have rated Chiltern Railways as the top operator in the country for overall satisfaction with the stations, with 88 per cent of passengers ^satisfied^ or ^very satisfied^ with the standard of the stations, according to findings of the National Passenger Survey (NPS).

The survey, commissioned by the independent consumer watchdog Passenger Focus, represents the views of morethan 100,000 rail passengers on a broad spectrum of issues and is conducted twice a year.

Chiltern Railways also ranked in the top six for overall customer satisfaction, with 90 per cent of passengers satisfied with the level of service.

Chiltern Railways^ managing director, Rob Brighouse, said: ^We are delighted that passengers have found us to be the top operator in the UK for overall satisfaction with our stations.

^We are also proud of the fact that we have improved on our high level of customer satisfaction, ranking among the top six train operators in the country. The findings reinforce our commitment to providing a high quality passenger experience.^

Greatly deserved! :)


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: smokey on July 09, 2012, 11:31:13
With reguards to the "NEW" power operated MK III doors on Chiltern Loco and Coaches stock, I'll guess from photo's I've seen that only 2 doors per coach have been modified whilst the other 2 doors are now Emergency exits.

Better send the MK III's back to Doncaster for painting in the correct livery!

The Emergency Exits should not be in "Door" highlighted livery, example being FGW Emergency Exit doors on HST Buffet Cars are NOT painted Pink like the other public doors.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on July 09, 2012, 11:34:01
Apart from the doors by the buffet, which is 'Staff Only' and Emergency exits, all the exit doors are converted.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: smokey on July 09, 2012, 11:49:54
That the point Emergency Exit doors are in the wrong colour.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Southern Stag on July 09, 2012, 17:16:45
Not unique though, Midland Mainline livery MK3s had the TGS and buffet doors painted the same colour as the others, highlighted from the rest of the livery.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 29, 2012, 14:58:41
btw - reverting to the Inspector's report from the Oxford enquiry, he can only submit his report while the House is sitting. As they break up next week until after the Party conferences (other than a week or so before), October is about as early as it can be accepted.

Any updates on the enquiry's progress, Chris?  The recess ends next week, any rumours that it will be shortly after that, or whether we will indeed be waiting until at least October?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on August 29, 2012, 15:01:47
Not heard anything recently - will make enquiries....


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on December 03, 2012, 21:34:50
From December 9th the fastest service from Moor Street to Marylebone is slowed to 94 minutes. Most journeys will be around 100 minutes. Somewhat of a reversal from the much heralded 90 minute journey time advertised in September 2011.



Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Southern Stag on December 04, 2012, 00:00:34
Is there even a 90 minute journey time in the current timetable? It was a fiddle anyway, the working timetable had the train arriving at Birmingham Moor Street in around 92 minutes, only the public timetable had a 90 minute journey time anyway. Usually a difference between working and public timetables is the opposite way round, the publicly advertised arrival being later, which gives the impression of slack in the schedule.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: JayMac on December 04, 2012, 00:33:23
The current 0655 from Moor St arrives Marylebone at 0825. WTT an PTT show the same times. From Monday 9th arrival will be 0829. Again, both WTT and PTT show the same times.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Southern Stag on December 04, 2012, 08:15:07
Ah, it was the down service which was the one with the WTT and PTT difference.The 1630 from Marylebone was the train I believe, now booked to arrive at Moor Street at 1803, until May it was 1800 in the PTT.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Timmer on December 04, 2012, 17:18:11
And where is Btline to defend Chiltern and their new timetable?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: paul7575 on December 04, 2012, 17:28:44
Interesting that there's an 0609 train in the new Chiltern timetable to Marylebone that starts at Kings Sutton.   :o

Paul


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on December 04, 2012, 23:12:17
And where is Btline to defend Chiltern and their new timetable?

Off on one of his sabbaticals it seems!


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on December 18, 2012, 14:37:15
Interesting that there's an 0609 train in the new Chiltern timetable to Marylebone that starts at Kings Sutton.   :o

Too many ecs movements at BAN around 0600, means that it departs Banbury east sidings ecs following the 0559 to MYB, rather than as a service from BAN.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: chuffed on December 18, 2012, 19:52:54
Perhaps BTline is esconced in one of those Chinese escape pods after reading about the end of the world due to take place on Friday. Just rememeber you read about it   in the Daily Mail/ Daily Express first !


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: birm2lond on December 29, 2012, 12:29:57
Whatever one may think of the 'padding' in Chiltern's Mainline timetable, it is still significantly better that waht was offered in 1956 (and at a cheaper price for most of the day...)

http://birmingham2london.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/february-1956-past-is-foreign-country.html


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: birm2lond on January 17, 2013, 18:31:04
Chiltern tell me that the following range of meals is being made available on the Silver Set Mainline services for ^3.50 each:

Chinese Style Chicken Curry with rice;
Chicken Tikka Masala with rice;
Meatball in tomato sauce with pasta;
Chilli Con Carne with rice;
Sweet Chilli Chicken with noodles;
Vegetable Chow Mein.

More details to follow.

Chiltern's 'Tweet the Manager' and 'Tweet the boss' session dates can be found at http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/tweet-us

The 2013 Meet the Manager dates are at http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/about-us/meet-the-managers


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: TonyK on January 17, 2013, 20:15:09
And I thought Vesta had had its day!


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: chuffed on January 17, 2013, 21:41:27


Mind you when this Bristolian  (at training college in the 70s) was looked after by what he called VESTAL virgins, he found he could never get through to the contents, cuz of all the wrapping.....

If all this promised snow materialises, I think I might be glad of a VESPA if the train don't turn up !


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: TonyK on January 17, 2013, 22:25:42
For which I shall pray, at Vespers (and Matins, and Laud,and Prime, and...)


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: chuffed on January 18, 2013, 10:42:25
Oh... they must be processioning via Monks-eaton  ;D


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: birm2lond on February 19, 2013, 21:57:53
Finally got to try the Chicken Tikka Masala today (http://birmingham2london.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/hot-meals-on-chiltern-silver-sets.html) Very nice and amazing value at ^3.50. However, as Chiltern seem not to want to publicize the meals, I would suggest that you try them soon before they're withdrawn through 'lack of demand'


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: eightf48544 on February 20, 2013, 11:46:27
There's an interesting comment in March Modern Raiways. Roger Ford notes German taxpayers are subsidising Chiltern a ^1m a week.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on February 20, 2013, 11:56:13
Hmm - that can be interpreted in more than one way.

Happy to discuss further by DM - but Starbucks jumps to mind!


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on August 03, 2013, 00:26:25
How is Chiltern going to cope over the next few years after the Oxford services start?

Many of the trains are now packed from Warwick Parkway and there is no room to squeeze more on!


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: grahame on August 03, 2013, 01:29:31
Many of the trains are now packed from Warwick Parkway and there is no room to squeeze more on!

Is that services like the 07:17, 07:36, 08:18 and 09:21 which are probably the ones you travel on, or does it extend to services such as the 06:59, 08:00 and 09:02?   How about services later in the day such as the 12:15, the 13:40, the 19:46 and the 20:43.   I suspect that "Full at Warwick Parkway" applies to the first group - which run express from around Banbury to Marylebone, and doesn't apply to the second group which stop at Bicester and arrive into Marylebone just a minute ahead of the first group.  As for the third group ... are they really that full?   As an educated guess, I would be surprised if more that 15% of services southbound from Warvick Parkway with destination Marylebone are "packed and there is no room to squeeze more on", and those are likely to be the ones that don't stop further south anyway.  Sources / counts / specific data please  :D


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on August 04, 2013, 18:46:41
Plenty of services are packed from Warwick Parkway (obviously not at off peak times). By packed, I mean Chiltern packed, with everyone seated but all seats taken.

Just look at the massive passenger increases at Solihull and Warwick Parkway and the fact that desperate commuters now drive all the way from Shropshire and Worcestershire, enduring the congested A46 everyday.

With few spare paths, limited platforms and platform lengths at Marylebone, I cannot see how they'll cope. Even if you extend the services which currently terminate at High Wycombe or Bicester to Oxford, these trains are already packed and many must be at full length.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: John R on August 04, 2013, 21:19:30
Just look at the massive passenger increases at Solihull and Warwick Parkway and the fact that desperate commuters now drive all the way from Shropshire and Worcestershire, enduring the congested A46 everyday


As it's "fact" what is your source?



Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: TonyK on August 04, 2013, 21:28:43
With few spare paths, limited platforms and platform lengths at Marylebone, I cannot see how they'll cope.

I bet they will. The modelling for what goes where and when will have been done before work commenced.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: James on August 04, 2013, 23:28:43
So Chiltern are the best rail company in the UK...
If so is commuting a dream from Beaconsfield to London Marylebone compared with Maidenhead or Twyford into Paddington?
After reading local newpapers it seems it not all that great after all.
Less seats, Less fast trains, sounds similar to the thames valley oh and not to mention air con problems on chilterns trains also similar to fgw problems.
Forget nice, fast, and comfortable and rather thing, slow, annoying and full to bursting, or am i wrong?
At the end of the day theres NO perfect rail operator, man the railways are seriously messed up, oh well lets try the road. Opps just hit a traffic jam.. Now what? Long live travelling in first class life style cause its sure not to last, oh dear what will people say then?



Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on August 06, 2013, 15:28:04
Chiltern still supply a far better service than FGW - as evidenced by tweeters saying so to Chiltern every so often.

The Oxford services will be extensions/diversions of current services - they will need no extra paths.

They will need further stock - I reckon 5 Clubman units to run a 30 minute service. The Silver sets were introduced originally for that reason - to release Clubmans, for refresh into silver Clubmans and then deploy to Oxford. BUT the increase in pax means the Clubmans are now in use on Mainline duty and they're now looking at sourcing further Mk3 sets. To that end, they've placed a contract for new locos (being built in Spain) - they have plenty of Mk3s for conversion in store at Kineton. I reckon 3 more silver Mk3 sets are required by 2016.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ellendune on August 06, 2013, 20:20:16
At the end of the day theres NO perfect rail operator, man the railways are seriously messed up, oh well lets try the road. Opps just hit a traffic jam.. Now what? Long live travelling in first class life style cause its sure not to last, oh dear what will people say then?

Of course there is no perfect operator, there are not enough trains an not enough track capacity, particularly as you get closer to London. That leads operators into difficult decisions balancing slower stopping services and faster long distance on the same tracks.  Ideally we would separate them with an extra set of tracks for say the fast trains.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on August 07, 2013, 11:18:39
I reckon 3 more silver Mk3 sets are required by 2016.

I reckon you're about right there.  Those 8 LOROL Class 172s might come in handy later in the decade when Gospel Oak to Barking electrification releases them - and if London Midland don't snap them up.

To that end, they've placed a contract for new locos (being built in Spain)

Have they actually placed a contract for their own locomotives?  I know they were looking at leasing new locomotives, and that the Class 68s being built in Spain for DRS were a distinct possibility?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on August 07, 2013, 11:39:06
The contract is placed for construction, I have it on very good authority. Whether direct for purchase, or via third-party for lease, that I don't know.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 31, 2013, 23:56:02
From the Witney Gazette (http://www.witneygazette.co.uk/news/wgheadlines/10634110.Chiltern_stays_out_in_front_as_Oxfordshire_s_most_punctual_rail_operator/?ref=nt):

Quote
Chiltern stays out in front as Oxfordshire's most punctual rail operator

(http://www.witneygazette.co.uk/resources/images/2195085.jpg?type=articlePortrait)
A Chiltern Railways Clubman train

Chiltern Railways remains one of Britain^s most punctual train operators over the past year.

In the 12 months to August 17, 95.4 per cent of its trains, which link Bicester and Banbury with London Marylebone and Birmingham, were on time, against a national average of 90.8 per cent.

The figure is based on trains arriving within five minutes of their scheduled time for commuter services or 10 minutes for long-distance services.

Only London commuter operators c2c and London Overground had better on-time performance figures, of 97.3 and 96.7 per cent respectively. Merseyrail shared third place with Chiltern.

In the same period, First Great Western, which which links Oxford and Didcot with London Paddington, recorded 89 per cent.

CrossCountry, which links Oxford and Banbury with the South coast and the North of England recorded 87.4 per cent.

From July 21 to August 20, Chiltern was the third most punctual operator, with a figure of 93.9 per cent, the same as in the same period last year. CrossCountry and First Great Western achieved 88.9 and 88.6 respectively, compared with 88.1 and 87.4 a year ago.

Chiltern^s operations and safety director Andrew Munden said: ^Ensuring passengers have a punctual service is incredibly important and these statistics reinforce the dedication of our staff to provide a first class experience.^


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on September 13, 2013, 23:50:57
I travelled through Chiltern land in the middle of the day today. Normally I travel in peak hours or at weekends.

I was flabbegasted at how all their car parks were full to bursting point. Can the line take much more of a strain? At least a brand new mega car park opens in Banbury soon!


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: trainer on September 14, 2013, 16:08:10
Can the line take much more of a strain?

I most interesting point BT, in view of a comment made today on Radio 4's Any Answers phone in.  An opponent of HS2 was quoting the Chiltern Line as an example of where there is plenty of spare capacity and need for line improvement.  As it was said, I told him (yes, sadly, I sometimes speak back to the radio) that he was several years out of date.  Your point proves to me that I was right.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on September 14, 2013, 20:06:02
Chiltern are only full in the peak, and even then that's only running a maximum length of 7car trains. Extension to full 12car length ought to be possible at most stations, but would eat into the platform capacity at MYB. There is a little mount that Chiltern could still do, by lengthening platforms & lengthening trains (after obtaining an operators licence for 12car [7 at the moment] trains & increasing depot space to cater for them, and then obtaining more stock....

So hurdles, but it could be done. Wouldn't last a decade though, before it would be full to capacity again.

But BTLine, that "mega car park" is purely replacing 'temporary space' elsewhere. The actual increase in spaces is.......20.


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: Btline on September 14, 2013, 20:33:15
Surely a new platform is possible at Marylebone by shaving a bit off Platform 1, shoving the Platform 1 track and the siding across a bit and slapping a new platform down?

Once Oxford is open, off peak services are likely to be rammed. I've been on plenty of packed off peak services.

Only 20 spaces, oh lord. Perhaps Banbury station should be moved to the fields to the South near the M40, where 4 through platforms could be built plus several car parks.

Or upgrade the Metropolitan line and extend to Aylesbury, removing those pesky via Amersham services which are such a waste of space! :p


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on February 26, 2017, 08:17:12
Errr....Oxford is *already* open! Keep up at the back? :-)

You've not been to Marylebone then? The stanling line behind platform 1 is used a lot during the off-peak day time. Regularly see three trains in there nose to tail. Shaving 'a bit' of platform 1 would be nowhere mear enough to get another platform in by the wall...don't you think others would have thought of that already?


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 26, 2017, 08:27:54
Errr....Oxford is *already* open! Keep up at the back? :-)

Errr....It wasn't in September 2013 when Btline made that post!


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: ChrisB on February 26, 2017, 08:59:09
Argh! So why did it flag as a new post? :-)


Title: Re: Chiltern Mainline: Nice & Fast!
Post by: IndustryInsider on February 26, 2017, 09:11:13
To catch people out early on a Sunday morning?  ;)



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