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All across the Great Western territory => Buses and other ways to travel => Topic started by: ollie b on November 05, 2011, 10:59:07



Title: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: ollie b on November 05, 2011, 10:59:07
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-15603124

My thoughts are with all the people involved and their families.



Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: Super Guard on November 05, 2011, 12:54:49
Terrible accident and wouldn't have helped with people travelling home from Bridgwater Carnival  :(


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: anthony215 on November 05, 2011, 13:00:31
Very shocking just been watching this on the BBC news channel.

My thoughts are with everyone involved.


I wouldnt want to be driving through Taunton for the next day or 2 with all the traffic.


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: Timmer on November 05, 2011, 13:38:03
Thoughts go out to everyone involved in this tragic accident. From the latest reports and pictures it looks like the emergency services have had to deal with a very difficult scene of devastation. Huge respect to all they do and have to face at times like this.


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 05, 2011, 13:48:04
A horrendous crash, and it will no doubt be a harsh reminder about the potential problems with increasing the speed limit to 80mph.


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: anthony215 on November 05, 2011, 14:30:58
Slightly going off topic:

I personally see no reason to increase the speed limit.

I think the excuse that drivers drive over 70 mph already is not a very good 1, perhaps more speed camera's on motorways although it could be argued that it would be bad a drivers could slam on the brakes increasing chances of a crash or causing tailbacks

Anyway back on topic, I do agree that the scene as I have seen it on the TV looks nasty I hate to think what it was like shortly after the accident last night. Praise has to be given to the emergency services and staff in the hospitals, even heared they flew 1 doctor in from Exeter/




Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: broadgage on November 05, 2011, 14:50:40
This tragic accident does however demonstrate the differing standards accepted on roads versus railways.

Do we hear calls for a public inquiry ?
For the temporary closure of motorways, pending a review to "ensure that it never happens again"
Calls to find out who caused it, and jail them ?
For the speed limit to be reduced ?
For strict action to ensure that those who drive dangerously are banned for life.

Most unlikely.

A train driver who deliberatly and substantialy exceeded the correct speed would almost certainly be dismissed and probably not be allowed to drive a train again.
A road vehicle driver would receive a small fine.

A TOC whose trains had dangerous faults would face severe penalties, as would the persons or firms who serviced them. The operators of unroadworthy vehicles usually get away with a small fine.

By next week this accident will be forgotten except by those injured or bereaved.
A train crash with a similar death toll would be called a "disaster" and not an "accident", and would be disscussed and inquired into for years.





Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: IndustryInsider on November 05, 2011, 15:13:07
A train crash with a similar death toll would be called a "disaster" and not an "accident", and would be disscussed and inquired into for years.

Very true.  And there would be wall-to-wall news coverage on Sky for days.


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: JayMac on November 05, 2011, 16:12:55
I echo the thoughts of others in expressing my sympathy to the bereaved and injured. Also, nothing but praise for the emergency services who had to deal with a truly shocking incident.

There's also the health care professionals in Somerset, who responded to the 'major incident' call. Praise for them as well.

It has been reported on the BBC News website that North Petherton Carnival has been cancelled as a mark of respect. A sensible decision, not just out of respect but also because the Carnival route is on the A38 through North Petherton, a road being used as a diversionary route whilst the M5 remains closed.

A relative tells me that traffic today in Taunton is quite bad, particularly around Creech Castle/Bathpool and Priory Fields/Toneway. Although it does appear that many have heeded warnings to avoid the area if possible.



Finally, with my Moderator hat on and out of respect for all those involved, can I ask that forum members avoid speculation here as to the causes of this incident. Thank you.


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: LiskeardRich on November 05, 2011, 16:39:11
Thoughts are with all those affected,

My brother drove where the accident was less than 30 mins before the accident returning back to Cornwall. He commented how the fog was so thick he couldnt see the front of his car, and people were still driving at ridiculous speed.

regarding above commenter whether the speed limit is 70 or 80 i believe is irrelevant here, as in such weather conditions common sense is required that it is unsafe to do even 70!


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: old original on November 05, 2011, 16:50:58
It's being reported that there are 7 confirmed dead as a result of this tragic accident, which I believe, happens to be about the average death toll for each and every day on the roads.


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: JayMac on November 05, 2011, 17:42:51
From the Avon and Somerset Constabulary (http://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/LocalPages/NewsDetails.aspx?nsid=24543&t=4) website:

Quote
North Petherton Carnival Cancelled

Unfortunately the North Petherton Carnival has been cancelled.

The decision was made by organisers following advice from a multi-agency contingency meeting including Police, Fire and Rescue, Highways Agency, Ambulance Service and local authorities who have been dealing with the overnight incidents on both the M5 and the environmental issues in Bridgwater.

It was felt that the road network would be placed under further pressure with high volumes of traffic already diverted from the M5 following the multiple RTC.

In addition, it was felt that the logistics of ensuring emergency routes and moving the carts from Bridgwater to North Petherton would create further delays and strain on already congested roads.

The carts will now be moved from Bridgwater to Burnham-on-Sea via the A38/Taunton Road, via Highbridge to The Queensway in Burnham. This will take place from 2pm today and congestion and delays are expected on this route until approximately 5pm.

The Queensway in Burnham-on-Sea will be shut from 4pm today until approximately 11.30pm after the carnival on Monday.

Police are requesting that the public avoid these sections of the A38 between these times wherever possible.

All the emergency services and partner agencies are thanking the public for their patience and understanding regarding the road closures and delays surrounding the M5 and Bridgwater incidents.

Also from Avon and Somerset Constabulary, a video message from Assistant Chief Constable Anthony Bangham:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KoPEvNbaXc4


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: ChrisB on November 05, 2011, 18:14:26
Cause: driving faster than the drivers ability to stop in an Emergency. Obvious. Oh, an TIRs dont just jacknife on their own


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: JayMac on November 05, 2011, 18:19:17
Cause: driving faster than the drivers ability to stop in an Emergency. Obvious. Oh, an TIRs dont just jacknife on their own

Thank you for conclusions. You've been to the site and conducted a thorough investigation have you? Did you not read what I posted in bold earlier in the thread. Please reconsider your post.


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: ChrisB on November 05, 2011, 18:42:53
What else caused it then? A meteorite?!!


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: grahame on November 05, 2011, 19:07:08
What else caused it then? A meteorite?!!

I was going to come back, list some alternatives, and request that you're not so flippant.   Then I checked back in the thread and noted.

Did you not read what I posted in bold earlier in the thread. Please reconsider your post.

So I reconsidered my post.  What a great shame, ChrisB, that your reconsideration resulted not only in a decision to take a light hearted approach, but also to take an approach that was in direct contradiction to a request from one of the moderators.

At intense times like this, we can all react in different ways;  many of us (myself slightly included) have been effected by fatal road traffic accidents, and it's good that this forum can let this be used to help us get on / move forward.  But your way, Chris, has offended.   This thread has already been locked in order to prevent you posting further to it.  I'm going to modify that decision and lock your account for a while, but reopen the thread. That way, the rest of us who wish to express sympathy for the victims, thanks to the emergency services who have dealt with it, and perhaps post if personally effected, can do so.


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 05, 2011, 19:56:04
From MSN News (http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/deaths-confirmed-in-m5-fireball):

Quote
At least seven dead after M5 smash

At least seven people have been killed and 51 injured in a devastating motorway pile-up said to be among the worst UK collisions in memory.

Police said the death toll from the crash on the M5 in Somerset on Friday night was expected to rise as the recovery operation continued.

Some 34 vehicles were involved in the accident, which happened in wet and foggy conditions and was described by emergency workers as "the worst road traffic collision anyone can remember".

Assistant Chief Constable Anthony Bangham of Somerset and Avon Police said: "Seven people are confirmed to have died as a result of this tragic incident and we do believe there could be more deaths.

"Our thoughts are with those who may have lost loved ones as a result of last night's collision.

"A large-scale multi-agency operation continues at the scene to remove vehicles, check that there are no other casualties and repair the carriageway. This is a hugely complex operation because of the scale of vehicles and people involved. All vehicles will need to be removed from the scene for forensic examination and this of course takes time."

Of the casualties, 25 were taken to Yeovil District Hospital and 17 of the more seriously injured to Musgrove Park Hospital in Taunton, he said. Nine others were taken to a temporary holding unit set up by the ambulance service.

The crash, which triggered a "massive fireball", took place close to the Bridgwater Guy Fawkes Carnival and it was suggested that smoke from the event could have worsened the fog on the road.

Police could not say whether the fireworks display might have been a factor, but Mr Bangham said it was "certainly something we'll be looking at closely".

He said: "There's a number of factors that came into play. It was dark - it was about 8.25pm - it was particularly poor weather last night, we had fog banks on the motorway and we also had wet surface issues. There were also other factors coming into play: there were events going on in the evening and of course we need to have a very close look at what was going on in the area that may have caused some sort of distraction."


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on November 05, 2011, 22:45:51
I think this one has to be different, a full investigation needs to be done from the start of the m5 at Exeter upto Bristol, it is a very badly designed road poor slip roads fog often settles in dips in the road and most of the entry slips are set up so that cars mostly join with lane one in the blind spot, splatford split on the northbound is one example I did this trip every day for several years lane one out of Exeter is so badly worn down by trucks that you can actually get caught in the tyre grooves and not have to steer sorry to say this and I know we don't know exactly what happened but this was always going to happen eventually on this road, at city link the lorrys were delayed almost every Friday by rtc's on that stretch


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: devon_metro on November 05, 2011, 22:53:11
A terrible accident. I was driving through Somerset yesterday evening and hit a random fog patch which was very thick. Particularly scary when you've never driven the road at night.

As for the comment about the M5 being badly designed, I wouldn't say it was that bad. Certainly i've driven on far worse. The M271 in Southampton springs to mind, the junction onto the M27 is a traffic light controlled junction, funny considering it is illegal to stop on the motorway!!!

I'd say last nights events are simply a terrible accident.


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on November 05, 2011, 23:00:03
I'm not going to post it as it wouldn't be apropriate to start a guessing game but I'm pretty sure I know how this happened, the problem is motorways and infact driving relys on the most inconsistent unpredictable thing on the planet ... Us, it doesn't matter how safe a road is while humans are in control of the car these terrible accidents will happen, but I stand by my comment on how dangerous that road is


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: JayMac on November 05, 2011, 23:31:05
but this was always going to happen eventually on this road

I think it fair to point out that 'this' could happen on any stretch of Motorway.



Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: anthony215 on November 05, 2011, 23:44:45
I have driven on the M5 including the section where this crash  happened and it doesnt seem to be any more dangerous than other motorways.

I personally think the M4 is worse especially with some of the junctions at Margam & Port Talbot


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: LiskeardRich on November 05, 2011, 23:47:08
I agree with comments regardign the M4 around south Wales, having used the M4 daily for 2 years until i moved back to Cornwall in 2009


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: Ollie on November 06, 2011, 00:49:03
Very sad news.

Sounds a lot like the M4 crash of 1991.


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: johoare on November 06, 2011, 00:53:56
Indeed Ollie, I was thinking about the 1991 one earlier too..
Not good at all ever when this happens..


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: ollie b on November 06, 2011, 10:56:52
I mut say a big well done to all the emergency services and agencys involved and the weather was definately not on their side i was at J27 where the northbound slip road had been closed and it was very foggy there i can only imagine what it would have been like next to a fireworks display too.


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 06, 2011, 11:44:26
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-15610140):

Quote
M5 crash police find no more bodies

No more bodies have been found at the scene of the crash on the M5 which killed seven people, police have said.

It had been feared the death toll from Friday evening's crash in Somerset could rise and emergency services had been searching for more victims. But Avon and Somerset Police said on Sunday morning all vehicles had been removed from the site and their "worst fears have not been realised".

A stretch of the M5 is expected to stay closed for the rest of the weekend. The 34-vehicle pile-up left 51 people injured.

Assistant Chief Constable Anthony Bangham said: "Overnight all the vehicles involved in this tragic incident have been removed from the scene. Our worst fears have not been realised and the number of those that sadly lost their lives remains at seven.

"Extensive work has been carried out to identify those people and families are being appointed family liaison officers to support them. Formal identification has not taken place - this will happen in the coming days."

Samworth Brothers, which owns Cornwall-based pasty firm Ginsters, said two of its vehicles, a Ginsters and a Samworth lorry, were involved in the crash. A spokesman for frozen food retailer Iceland confirmed one of the firm's lorries had also been involved.

Officers are examining whether fog or smoke from a nearby bonfire and fireworks event may have been a factor in the crash, which happened at junction 25, near Taunton.

Four private ambulances left the site of the crash late on Saturday.

People concerned about relatives should call the emergency helpline on 0800 092 0410.

The motorway remains closed between junctions 24 and 25.

Officers said the pile-up, which happened on the northbound carriageway at about 20:30 GMT, had led to a "massive fireball" at the scene.

Investigators are looking into what caused the crash, which witnesses said happened as the road was wet and foggy in patches.

Witnesses described how smoke had been produced from a fireworks display at Taunton Rugby Club, near the motorway.

The club made no comment on the matter, but confirmed the display had taken place between 20:00 and 20:15 GMT on Friday.

Of the injured, 25 were taken to Yeovil District Hospital, 17 of the more seriously injured are being treated at Musgrove Park Hospital in Taunton and nine were treated at the scene.

Twenty-three of those taken to Yeovil have since been discharged.

Mr Bangham said: "Once the carriageway is clear, a large operation will take place to repair the road surface and clear fuel spillages." He said the issue of whether nearby fireworks events were a factor in the crash was "certainly something we'll be looking at closely".

"There are a number of factors that came into play," he said. "It was dark, it was particularly poor weather... we had fog banks on the motorway and we also had wet surface issues. There were events going on in the evening and of course we need to have a very close look at what was going on in the area that may have caused some sort of distraction."

On Saturday, he described the crash scene as "horrific" and said the incident had been "very, very challenging" for emergency crews.

He also praised the bravery of members of the public who had tried to help others caught up in the crash. "The intensity of the fire - it was a fireball on the carriageway - made it incredibly difficult for people to approach. People did their very best."

Police have not confirmed the age or sex of the people killed but Mr Bangham said four of the casualties had been in one vehicle.

Witness Tom Hamill, 25, from Wells, Somerset, described how he helped a woman and her child to safety over the central reservation in the aftermath of the crash. He said: "I clambered out of the car and the first thing I heard was a mother of a small 18-month-old baby shouting 'take my baby, take my baby - my husband's trapped inside the car.' So I took the baby and carried it over the central reservation."

Mr Hamill, who had been travelling with his father and girlfriend, said that at the time of the crash he slowed down and veered into the central reservation, which he thought had "saved our lives".

He added: "The thing that made me realise how bad it was, was you could hear the thud of cars hitting into lorries. One car overtook us going at about 60 or 70 miles an hour and just crashed straight into a lorry."

Transport Secretary Justine Greening said on Saturday it was too early to consider what measures could be taken to prevent similar accidents. She paid tribute to emergency crews, saying there had been "real acts of heroism", and expressed her "deepest sympathies" with the affected families.

Hundreds of people have paid tribute to the dead and injured and their families on Facebook.

Quote
Britain's worst road crashes

20 October 2008: Family-of-six killed in crash on the M6.

7 May 2007: Six people killed on the M25 when a rescue truck carrying a minibus collides with a lorry.

10 July 2003: Seven people killed when a minibus collides with a car on the M56.

17 November 1993: Crash on the M40 leaves 12 children dead.

March 13 1991: Ten people killed in a 51-car pile-up on the M4.

28 October 1987: Truck collides with stationary traffic on the M61 killing 12 people.

21 October 1985: Coach collides with stationary traffic on the M6 killing 13 people.

27 May 1975: Coach carrying pensioners comes off bridge in North Yorkshire, killing 32 people, in Britain's worst ever road accident.


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: SandTEngineer on November 06, 2011, 12:36:24
In another thread I mentioned that I visited the Bridgwater Carnival on Friday night.  I passed the site of the accident (going North) at about 1800 and at that time the road was clear but it was raining slightly.  However, on reaching the top of the hill just after the Taunton junction traffic was coming to a standstill due to holdups on turning off at Bridgwater.  At the time I commented to my wife about the idiots driving in the overtaking lane (I refuse to call it the fast lane) and the distances (or not) between the vehicles.  People were also trying to weave in and out because of the hold up.

During the Bridgwater Carnival at about 2000 Fog suddenly descended and this was it now seems about the time of the accident.

My heartfelt condolences go out to all those involved.  It certainly shook me up when they announced the accident at the end of the carnival.

Post Edited to comply with Moderators Wishes.


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: Phil on November 06, 2011, 12:53:59
It would appear the following needs repeating - possibly because it's slipped to the previous page. Thanks.


Finally, with my Moderator hat on and out of respect for all those involved, can I ask that forum members avoid speculation here as to the causes of this incident. Thank you.



Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: Devon Big Bird on November 06, 2011, 13:39:46
It would appear the following needs repeating - possibly because it's slipped to the previous page. Thanks.


Finally, with my Moderator hat on and out of respect for all those involved, can I ask that forum members avoid speculation here as to the causes of this incident. Thank you.



It's a shame you couldn't have got the same message to the Mail on Sunday who IMO have not been helpful.


Title: Re: M5 Crash 04/11/2011
Post by: grahame on November 07, 2011, 22:06:25
As we're now moving on beyond the immediate accident and its aftermath, with Justine Greening commenting in the Commons and police talking about their lines of enquiry, it seems a good time to start a fresh thread for this phase.   I have split off the final post into a new thread, which is open for comment - see

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=9774.0





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