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Title: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: Devon Big Bird on December 07, 2011, 20:11:48 Apologies if this is old news, but good to see that the Heathfield branch is coming back to life (and it even appears the 142 didn't chew the line up too badly :D)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-16069387 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-16069387) Note the quote - "The branch has not seen a train for many years and needed to be capable of taking freight trains again," I could be cruel here! Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: Umberleigh on December 14, 2011, 12:54:01 Good news indeed. Always thought that this branch would be a good candidate for a steam heritage railway; mainline connection and a charming route, much of it through a Devon Wildlife Trust site. However, would much rather see it continue as a revenue earning freight line - the wider area is not short of steam!
Credit where due to the relevant local authorities for including this branch in their transport plan(s), even when there were no freight traffic flows. Shame that the sidings were lifted at Lapford, as this station used to handle timber from Eggesford forest up until the 80's (amongst other freight) and thus might have attracted similar freight traffic today. If you google "Heathfield timber freight" there are a number of sites with photos and operational info. Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: Devon Big Bird on December 14, 2011, 20:10:44 Or another option, I know that the Trading Estate in Heathfield is currently in full recession mode however longer term, what about an option for light rail, pushing towards Bovey Tracey (and it's catchment of commuters to Exeter and Plymouth). Stops at Stover (and even a branch to 'Devon Disneyland' a.k.a. Trago Mills?)
One step further (light blue touchpaper), run from Bovey / Heathfield to Paignton (or Churston for Brixham). I know it would mean sacrificing mainline services to my local branch but if it meant a more regular service with light rail? There would be the problem of crossing the Main at NTA but... Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: grahame on February 20, 2014, 23:22:55 Quote The weekly freight train, consisting of 14 wagons, will carry about 600 tonnes of timber. Patrick Hallgate from Network Rail said rail freight could offer businesses a cheaper, quicker and more practical alternative to moving goods by road. "Without the railway, the anticipated growth in freight traffic over the next 30 years would mean an extra 1.5m lorry journeys on Britain's roads each year," he said. "Each freight train can take about 60 lorries off the roads and by shifting traffic from already congested roads to rail will bring greater future benefits." We've talked a great deal about passengers along the seawall ... how much freight uses the line in a typical week, and what's happening with that for the next couple of months? Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: ReWind on February 21, 2014, 11:31:51 Quote The weekly freight train, consisting of 14 wagons, will carry about 600 tonnes of timber. Patrick Hallgate from Network Rail said rail freight could offer businesses a cheaper, quicker and more practical alternative to moving goods by road. "Without the railway, the anticipated growth in freight traffic over the next 30 years would mean an extra 1.5m lorry journeys on Britain's roads each year," he said. "Each freight train can take about 60 lorries off the roads and by shifting traffic from already congested roads to rail will bring greater future benefits." We've talked a great deal about passengers along the seawall ... how much freight uses the line in a typical week, and what's happening with that for the next couple of months? As a regular visitor to Dawlish (in particular, Gays Creamery), I rarely see any freight traffic along the sea wall. The little I do see tends to be short China Clay trains or engineers trains. A bit of speculation now admittedly, but I would presume freight from Cornwall is being transported by road to Exeter Riverside whereby a possible return to rail for the remainder of the journey is possible? Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: trainbuff on February 21, 2014, 15:47:16 I certainly have not seen any freight being transferred from road to rail at Exeter Riverside or Taunton either. I think once the logs are place on lorries they will stay on them. Sad to say but this could be another reason we need an alternative. I fear freight from Devon AND Cornwall......and I know there is not much.....will be lost to the roads.
That may also be a reason why little freight is carried in Devon and Cornwall. It is not reliable to do so. Either due to Cowley Bridge (2012-2013) and Dawlish Sea Wall this year. I sincerely hope I am wrong with my pessimism Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: des5564 on February 21, 2014, 20:22:33 I work in the road haulage industry and know local hauliers are being paid well over the going rate to take clay from St Austell to Stoke.
Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: Cynthia on February 21, 2014, 21:30:41 Quote The weekly freight train, consisting of 14 wagons, will carry about 600 tonnes of timber. Patrick Hallgate from Network Rail said rail freight could offer businesses a cheaper, quicker and more practical alternative to moving goods by road. "Without the railway, the anticipated growth in freight traffic over the next 30 years would mean an extra 1.5m lorry journeys on Britain's roads each year," he said. "Each freight train can take about 60 lorries off the roads and by shifting traffic from already congested roads to rail will bring greater future benefits." We've talked a great deal about passengers along the seawall ... how much freight uses the line in a typical week, and what's happening with that for the next couple of months? I love the last paragraph of the quote, it got me wondering what percentage of freight is carried by rail nationwide. Anyone got any figures? Mod Note: Edited to fix quotes Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: Umberleigh on February 22, 2014, 11:08:58 Sadly, freight traffic in Devon & Cornwall has been decimated in recent years:
Meldon stone Moorswater cement Bitumen from Plymouth The Fawley tanks The china clay (?) from Tavistock Junction Scrap metal from Plymouth Some lost to road transport, some due to closures of plants. What remains is the clay traffic in Cornwall, some limited clay traffic into Devon and beyond, aggregates to Newton Abbot and Exeter, and limited MoD traffic on the Gunnislake line, and possibly Alphington scrap metal. Oh, and nuclear flasks from Devonport. Heathfield has now ceased as all timber has been moved, although reasonable to assume this might re-commence in the future. A sorry tale compared with much of the rest of the country, where rail freight operators are investing in new 66's and those 'Bulldog' electric locos. Rumours include Co-op and Tesco looking to run containers in the future, although 'South-West' could literally mean anywhere from Bristol to Penzance (!) Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: Cynthia on February 22, 2014, 21:44:00 Depressing reading. As an active Co-op member I rattle their cage every now and then on the subject of transport. Any other Co-op members out there might have had a mail from the Co-op asking them to complete a survey, about the future of the Co-op. If you haven't already completed it, now's your chance to mention transport, specifically rail. I noticed a while back a thread mentioning 'Go-op', but there doesn't seem to be a lot of action from the embryonic transport Co-op. We need more investors/members!
Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: johnneyw on June 17, 2017, 23:14:14 http://m.devonlive.com/railway-group-want-to-reopen-the-heathfield-branch-line/story-30394003-detail/story.html
Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: Pb_devon on August 05, 2017, 12:06:01 Not at all understanding the "and connect to Buckfastleigh" bit.
This idea has been discussed at length on another forum (RMweb) with large dollops of informed sceptisism. Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: johnneyw on August 05, 2017, 12:44:57 Seems to be that the Buckfastliegh bit was reporting error by the local press.
Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: Andy on August 05, 2017, 14:01:06 Thanks for clarifying that Buckfastleigh was a reporting error. It made no sense. If there was to be a hook-up with any 'heritage' line, It'd be more sensible to run through from Heathfield to Kingswear via Newton Abbot and Paignton, I'd have thought. With the South Devon and Paignton-Dartmouth lines so close by, a separate heritage operation at Heathfield operation would struggle.
Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: grahame on August 05, 2017, 16:43:31 Thanks for clarifying that Buckfastleigh was a reporting error. It made no sense. If there was to be a hook-up with any 'heritage' line, It'd be more sensible to run through from Heathfield to Kingswear via Newton Abbot and Paignton, I'd have thought. With the South Devon and Paignton-Dartmouth lines so close by, a separate heritage operation at Heathfield operation would struggle. A heritage operation needs some traffic "drivers" to being people and passengers (so does a regular public service railway, come to that) and I'm struggling to see the drivers for a Newton Abbott to Heathfield service at the moment. Drivers might be scenery, provision of steam or heritage diesel in a part of the UK where there was none, access to an attraction or attractive area, especially if car parking at that attraction was limited. Alas, I've not seen any of those factors here in great enough quantity / clearly enough proposed to make it work. A park and ride station on the A38 with through trains to Torbay and Kingswear for Dartmouth might be worth a serious look - but what cost crossing the West of England main line? I posted the "oddities and peculiarities" weekend from the Ffestiong yesterday - and one wonders about a similar standard gauge running an test track. You could look at covering over the Heathfield line bay / having 2 tracks in there and use it for heritage EMUs - that would being a specialist EMU market and (?) the first electric trains in Devon. Using MLVs (nearly all of which are preserved) with enhanced battery capacity perhaps, no need for catenary or third rail? Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: Andy on August 07, 2017, 12:03:33 Thanks for clarifying that Buckfastleigh was a reporting error. It made no sense. If there was to be a hook-up with any 'heritage' line, It'd be more sensible to run through from Heathfield to Kingswear via Newton Abbot and Paignton, I'd have thought. With the South Devon and Paignton-Dartmouth lines so close by, a separate heritage operation at Heathfield operation would struggle. A heritage operation needs some traffic "drivers" to being people and passengers (so does a regular public service railway, come to that) and I'm struggling to see the drivers for a Newton Abbott to Heathfield service at the moment. Drivers might be scenery, provision of steam or heritage diesel in a part of the UK where there was none, access to an attraction or attractive area, especially if car parking at that attraction was limited. Alas, I've not seen any of those factors here in great enough quantity / clearly enough proposed to make it work. To be honest, neither have I. Thanks for clarifying that Buckfastleigh was a reporting error. It made no sense. If there was to be a hook-up with any 'heritage' line, It'd be more sensible to run through from Heathfield to Kingswear via Newton Abbot and Paignton, I'd have thought. With the South Devon and Paignton-Dartmouth lines so close by, a separate heritage operation at Heathfield operation would struggle. A park and ride station on the A38 with through trains to Torbay and Kingswear for Dartmouth might be worth a serious look - but what cost crossing the West of England main line? I posted the "oddities and peculiarities" weekend from the Ffestiong yesterday - and one wonders about a similar standard gauge running an test track. You could look at covering over the Heathfield line bay / having 2 tracks in there and use it for heritage EMUs - that would being a specialist EMU market and (?) the first electric trains in Devon. Using MLVs (nearly all of which are preserved) with enhanced battery capacity perhaps, no need for catenary or third rail? I can't see much (any?) enthusiasm for a heritage EMU set-up in South Devon. There's no local tradition/nostalgia to draw on and there's stiff competition in the form of the nearby South Devon and Paignton & Dartmouth lines. Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: johnneyw on August 08, 2017, 09:46:10 I'm not totally pessimistic about it's prospects. To start with, it runs parallel to the Stover canal for a good deal of it's route which is itself being restored. This, together with the lengths of stone tramway being unearthed there gives a fairly unique heritage appeal.
Additionally, I walked the stretch from the northern edge of Newton Abbot to Ventiford along the canal just before the reopening group appeared in the local press and it is quiet pleasantly scenic. The other point to make is that the group interested in the reopening are not just looking at a heritage line but are looking at local transport options too. In fact, they appear to be pretty open minded about it thus far with the emphasis at this early stage of seeing if they can secure the line. Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: Andy on August 08, 2017, 12:46:32 While the paralysis regarding the sea-wall issue persists (i.e. for as far into the future as I can see), I think the Heathfield line will be protected to a certain extent, even if it is mothballed.
Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: johnneyw on August 08, 2017, 21:52:54 While the paralysis regarding the sea-wall issue persists (i.e. for as far into the future as I can see), I think the Heathfield line will be protected to a certain extent, even if it is mothballed. The Heathfield line formation rather peters out around Bovey Tracey, Mortonhempsted at best. The proposed fall back route goes from Exeter through Okehampton so the Heathfield line has little value to NR, apart from it's land value of course. Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: Umberleigh on August 10, 2017, 19:44:11 The Stover Trail cycle path follows the route of the line for much of way, then diverts until Bovey Tracey. If the line does eventually get lifted, then perhaps a 15" railway with seating and cycle wagons along the old standard gauge formation, then extended into Bovey Tracey? Would be significantly cheaper than a new standard gauge formation.
That way families could cycle one way then chuck the bikes on the train for the journey back (especially useful for families with small kids). Whatever operates will need to be a simple set-up as I can't see there being many volunteers, what with the two nearby steam railways. Diesel or electric (as in electric car engine) locos and wagons, very seasonal timetable. Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: johnneyw on August 15, 2017, 23:14:20 There is a second public meeting being held by the group looking to reopen the line on 2nd Sept at 7pm in the Newton Abbot Royal British Legion according to their Facebook page.
It could be interesting to see what they are looking to use the line for. Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: grahame on September 13, 2017, 20:08:10 Update article from Devon Live (http://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/study-see-reopening-disused-railway-361935)
Quote A feasibility study into whether a plan to reopen a disused railway line would be possible is to be carried out. Passenger trains have not travelled on the Teign Valley line between Newton Abbot to Heathfield since 1959, and in recent years, use of the line has dwindled to just the occasional freight train. But Michael Cooke, chairman of the Newton Abbot to Heathfield Railway Revival Group, wants to see the line reopened as a way of easing transport pressures in the region, to give the tourist industry a boost, and as a commercial line. Mr Cooke says that a feasibility study into the line is set to be carried out and that they have had a lot of backing from the public since they announced their plans. He said: “We have also heard back from Network Rail that the line is classed as being mothballed, which is good news for us, because it means that they have no plans to use the line. We have a lot of support from the public and we will be carrying out a feasibility study into the future of the line. “We want to work with train operators to be able to run a train service from Heathfield to Newton Abbot and we are forming a committee to have a look at our next move.” He said that anyone interested should come along to a meeting on Saturday, September 2, at 7pm, at the Royal British Legion in Newton Abbot. A Network Rail spokesman said that although it would be possible to reopen the line for passenger services, significant investment would be needed. He added: “There has been interest in the line by local stakeholders, including the operator of the People Parry Mover. “The line has previously been a freight only line and it would require significant investment to bring it up to standard for passenger services, although it is possible. “Additionally, there is a level crossing at Teigngrace which would need upgrading or closed to allow any services to operate.” [article continues Anyone got any reports from that 2nd September meeting? Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: johnneyw on September 19, 2017, 09:31:44 My "man on the ground" couldn't make the meeting but there's a bit of commentary on their Facepack page although not a massive amount more than mentioned above. One of the attendees seems to know Pete Waterman quite well so there may be some publicity mileage in that.
Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: johnneyw on September 23, 2017, 14:41:01 For those who would like to see something being down with the line there is an online petition currently on:
https://www.change.org/p/local-councils-rail-operaters-and-network-rail-to-work-together-to-re-open-the-newton-abbot-to-heathfield-railway-line Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: johnneyw on October 12, 2017, 18:34:56 Looks like Network Rail may have something to say about the Heathfield Line shortly:
http://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/network-rail-consider-plans-reopen-612775 With plans announced to build more homes in Bovey Tracey it looks like the case is growing. Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: bradshaw on November 07, 2017, 18:37:44 Possible reopening of the Heathfield branch has just featured on BBC Spotlight this evening about 4 minutes in, after piece on breakup of GWR.
Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 07, 2017, 23:36:09 What?? They've been reading our forum again! :o ;D
Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: johnneyw on November 19, 2017, 21:51:23 Possible reopening of the Heathfield branch has just featured on BBC Spotlight this evening about 4 minutes in, after piece on breakup of GWR. Facebook recording of it here, sound quality not great though: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10214030915667759&id=1257325527&ref=m_notif¬if_t=group_activity Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: johnneyw on January 15, 2018, 20:54:07 The team negotiating with Network Rail for access to the line announced today that they had reached an agreement. Apparently, NR will allow the group to lease the line with a later buy out option should the circumstances be suitable. Maintenance will still be through NR but with help from the group. This allows much more detailed planning and structuring to take place.
Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: GBM on January 17, 2018, 06:59:30 On BBC TV Spotlight yesterday evening
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b09m6p81/spotlight-evening-news-16012018 Starting at 10 minutes 30 seconds in. Expires 19h00 this evening it seems. Not sure why Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: johnneyw on January 17, 2018, 21:16:34 Local press:
http://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/new-rail-line-could-reopen-1077055 Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: ChrisB on January 17, 2018, 22:15:42 Daiy news programmes all expire after24 hours to make way for the folowing days edition
Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: eXPassenger on January 18, 2018, 18:49:09 Local press: http://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/new-rail-line-could-reopen-1077055 I love the idea of reopening a new line. Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: Oberon on January 18, 2018, 21:59:10 I love the idea of opening a new line, if it will form part of the national network. But if it's just more heritage guff, allowing adults to play trains and kiddies to think steam engines once had human-like faces, then forget it. Grrr!!
Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: johnneyw on January 21, 2018, 12:41:38 I love the idea of opening a new line, if it will form part of the national network. But if it's just more heritage guff, allowing adults to play trains and kiddies to think steam engines once had human-like faces, then forget it. Grrr!! To me what makes this interesting is the potential multiple purposes of reopening and most of the talk so far has been to explore it's potential for passenger traffic. This would include commuter use between Bovey Tracey and Neutron Abbot (including the industrial estate potentially served by the line). It would also look to include shopper traffic to Newton Abbot, perhaps even school traffic. Being on the course of the Templer Way to Dartmoor it also has tourist potential. Recreationally it may be able to complement the adjacent Stover canal currently under restoration which once again forms part of the Templer Way. Oh yes, don't worry, there is the intention of a heritage element as well. Get your Thomas Tee shirt ready! 😀 Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: devonexpress on June 16, 2018, 12:10:00 Potential for ex-GWR 143's to run the service from the bay platform at Newton Abbot? ;D
Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: grahame on June 16, 2018, 12:41:38 Potential for ex-GWR 143's to run the service from the bay platform at Newton Abbot? ;D I HAVE noted the smiley face. Seriously, when we get to "final units" and "EX-gwr', they become an operation nightmare to keep serviced and running; that has been done before - Lymington and the last of the slammers, for example. And they need accessibility mods too, unless you take out the loo. For the length of run involved, mind you, not sure a loo would be needed. Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: devonexpress on June 16, 2018, 18:45:16 Potential for ex-GWR 143's to run the service from the bay platform at Newton Abbot? ;D I HAVE noted the smiley face. Seriously, when we get to "final units" and "EX-gwr', they become an operation nightmare to keep serviced and running; that has been done before - Lymington and the last of the slammers, for example. And they need accessibility mods too, unless you take out the loo. For the length of run involved, mind you, not sure a loo would be needed. The way I see it, its either going to be them or a Class 153, even if it is going to be a heritage railway, I would of thought a modern train would be required for a daily service? Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: johnneyw on June 17, 2018, 22:53:32 According to their Facebook page, they have already had a conversation with Party People Mover and Vivarail. They were informed by Vivarail that purchasing a two car deisel/battery unit would be something in the region of 2.5 million if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: grahame on June 18, 2018, 05:52:19 According to their Facebook page, they have already had a conversation with Party People Mover and Vivarail. They were informed by Vivarail that purchasing a two car deisel/battery unit would be something in the region of 2.5 million if I recall correctly. And having a single unit still leaves the question "what do we do when it needs an overhaul or is otherwise unavailable?". I love the idea of a "Party People Mover". I know that's an unintended autocorrect ... but it set me wondering about the idea of special trains for parties and other big events. Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: martyjon on June 18, 2018, 06:31:46 According to their Facebook page, they have already had a conversation with Party People Mover and Vivarail. They were informed by Vivarail that purchasing a two car deisel/battery unit would be something in the region of 2.5 million if I recall correctly. And having a single unit still leaves the question "what do we do when it needs an overhaul or is otherwise unavailable?". I love the idea of a "Party People Mover". I know that's an unintended autocorrect ... but it set me wondering about the idea of special trains for parties and other big events. Why not trial a Parry People Mover as a tourist attraction like they did on the Bristol Harbour line a few years ago, caused quite a stir at the time if I remember. Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: JayMac on June 18, 2018, 07:10:45 Was it really 20 years ago?!
http://friendlycreatives.co.uk/ppm/news/bristol-railcar/ Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: trainer on June 18, 2018, 12:04:18 I wonder if the optimism from the journalists about the wonderful return of trams to Bristol was perhaps as grounded in reality as a return of commercially viable trains to the Heathfield branch?
Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: johnneyw on June 18, 2018, 21:35:34 According to their Facebook page, they have already had a conversation with Party People Mover and Vivarail. They were informed by Vivarail that purchasing a two car deisel/battery unit would be something in the region of 2.5 million if I recall correctly. And having a single unit still leaves the question "what do we do when it needs an overhaul or is otherwise unavailable?". I love the idea of a "Party People Mover". I know that's an unintended autocorrect ... but it set me wondering about the idea of special trains for parties and other big events. I would love a Party People Mover! Now all we need is 'Newton Abbot, European Capital of Parties'. 😀 Title: Re: Heathfield Branch Line - freight use and campaign to restore passenger services Post by: johnneyw on February 29, 2020, 16:50:18 Gary Taylor, Portfolio Holder for Planning, Teignbridge District Council has made an announcement of the Heath Rail Link Facebook Page today.
"As Portfolio Holder (PH) for Planning, I am very pleased to advise that Teignbridge District Council has been successful in gaining sponsorship from MP Anne Marie Morris in our bid to support the Heath Rail Link (HRL) through the Government's 'Restoring Your Railway' Ideas Fund, which closed for submissions yesterday." The article continues and is followed by another post giving a brief description of proposed development work. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |