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All across the Great Western territory => Buses and other ways to travel => Topic started by: ellendune on December 04, 2011, 21:22:51



Title: 'Boris Island' airport discussion - merged posts
Post by: ellendune on December 04, 2011, 21:22:51
Of course if Ms Greening supports a replacement airport at Boris Island then this would all be waste of money. 

But then Boris Island is a scheme invented by people who don't think things through. (Bird strikes on aircraft, LPG depot just next door, low lying site just outside the proposed new Thames Barrier).  It all seems very good - just don't cloud the issue with facts.


Title: Re: 'Boris Island' airport discussion - merged posts
Post by: eightf48544 on December 05, 2011, 14:39:52
Plus 1400 tons  of wartime explosive in a the sunken Liberty Ship SS Richard Montgomery nearby.


Title: Re: 'Boris Island' airport discussion - merged posts
Post by: Wilf19 on December 06, 2011, 09:56:04
We've gone off topic now I know, but I can't see Boris Island working. Surely it has to be the wrong side of London for a good chunk of the population and if the Govt. stated aim is to reduce internal flights then Boris Island will need a whole shed load of new rail infrastructure to go with it.

And as ellendune says, surely the USAir Hudson River ditching and an emergency landing in Amsterdam back in the summer due to an engine out caused by it swallowing a goose should suggest that putting a major airport near large bird populations probably isn't a good idea!


Title: Re: 'Boris Island' airport discussion - merged posts
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 14, 2011, 23:16:18
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16187496):

Quote
Greening clashes with MPs over 'Boris Island' airport

Transport Secretary Justine Greening has clashed with MPs about the idea of a new airport for London.

She was asked by the transport select committee whether she backed the plan for an airport in the Thames Estuary, dubbed "Boris Island" due to its backing by London Mayor Boris Johnson.

But she said MPs had not appeared to understand Mr Johnson's stance and had "no details" behind their questions.

The chair of the committee told her that her remarks were "out of order".

Ms Greening was giving evidence to the committee on the transport plans outlined in last month's autumn statement.

But the hearing became heated when Louise Ellman, the Labour MP who chairs the committee, asked the transport secretary whether she was going to "explore the Boris Island idea".

In response, Ms Greening asked the cross-party committee whether they had read any of the witness statements provided by Mr Johnson as part of a "call for evidence" on airport capacity in London.

"If anyone has, I would be interested if you could raise your hands," she said.

But Mrs Ellman said this was not the way the committee conducted its hearings, telling her: "No, no, no, we are asking you the questions."

Ms Greening went on to suggest that if the MPs "had actually read that evidence", they would know that the London Mayor had not explicitly called for a new airport to be located in the Thames Estuary, east of the capital, but rather for a new "hub airport" in the south-east of England.

Mrs Ellman told the transport secretary that "it is not for you to suppose or assume or think anything" but to answer the committee's questions about the issue raised.

But the transport secretary said the MPs were trying to "pin her down" on a subject that she preferred not to discuss as she did not want to "jump a process that is already under way"

And she added: "I think it is also incumbent on the committee to, in a sense, have some kind of details behind questions".

But Mrs Ellman told her: "Secretary of State. That is not in order. This meeting, we ask you the questions. You may have whatever thoughts you wish but your role is to answer questions."

Conservative MP Kwasi Kwarteng, whose Spelthorne constituency includes Heathrow airport, said the transport secretary had failed to address the issue.

"You are head of a very important department," he said. "This is a major strategic issue and you simply flannelled and have not given any kind of direction or what your way of thinking is on this."

The transport secretary rejected this and said ministers were "considering all the proposals that have been put to us", adding "of course that includes proposals from people like the mayor".

The government has ruled out building a new runway at Heathrow and there are restrictions on further expansion at Gatwick and Stansted.

Business groups have warned that London will lose out to other European countries if more airport capacity is not built near the capital.

But Ms Greening said she was looking at ways of making better use of existing capacity and it would be wrong to draw conclusions on future plans ahead of the publication of the government's draft strategy on aviation expected in the Spring.

"I do think it is incumbent on us to come up with a strategy which is well thought through... and will stand the test of time," she said.


Title: Re: 'Boris Island' airport discussion - merged posts
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 14, 2011, 23:47:20
I've merged a few posts here in this new topic - purely in the interests of clarity and continuity, as ever ...  :)


Title: Re: 'Boris Island' airport discussion - merged posts
Post by: JayMac on December 15, 2011, 00:40:25
Ms Greening asking those assembled to 'raise your hands'.

Should someone point out that she is no longer (no matter how briefly) a teacher?


Title: Re: 'Boris Island' airport discussion - merged posts
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 15, 2011, 00:47:19
Her coolness towards the idea, though, does suggest that her Department is not exactly enamoured of the concept?  :-\


Title: Re: 'Boris Island' airport discussion - merged posts
Post by: JayMac on December 15, 2011, 00:54:10
One wonders though what Dave thinks.

Old school tie.....


Title: Re: 'Boris Island' airport discussion - merged posts
Post by: paul7575 on December 15, 2011, 11:23:51
What never seems to get mentioned in the discussions of Heathrow is the massive area around the airport where nearly all those businesses that support the airport are located.  Just think of all the warehousing and transport companies that deal with distribution of incoming freight.

Are they going to transplant all the surrounding businesses, workforce, housing and schools etc into the Thames Estuary as well?

Paul


Title: Re: 'Boris Island' airport discussion - merged posts
Post by: Btline on December 15, 2011, 11:42:45
It would leave a massive void in West London. But that could be a perfect opportunity to solve the South East's housing shortage! With 2 rail lines and the Tube it could be very green!


Title: Re: 'Boris Island' airport discussion - merged posts
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 11, 2013, 21:15:27
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24895965):

Quote
'Boris Island' London Airport designs unveiled

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71041000/jpg/_71041169_12135_106_elevated_britannia-hires.jpg)
The consortium behind the airport said it could be built in seven years

Designs and details of how a Thames estuary airport would work have been unveiled.

London Britannia Airport, the proposed six-runway airport formerly known as Boris Island, would cost ^47.3bn.

The consortium behind the scheme claims it could be built within seven years.

The Davies airport commission is currently reviewing potential sites for more airport capacity in the South East, including additional runways at Gatwick and Heathrow.

Testrad (Thames Estuary Research and Development) said the island scheme avoided the problems of other land-based airport developments.

A spokeswoman said those included demolition of houses, removal of green field sites, bird strikes, acquisition of private land and demolition of industrial infrastructure.

She said a key point was "separating people from planes" by giving passengers the benefit of air travel but without noise because all aircraft landing and departures would be over the estuary rather than residential areas.

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71041000/jpg/_71041170_12135_201_interior_concourse_03.jpg)
Testrad said opportunities for housing, employment and the economy were huge but Heathrow would probably have to close

"Most importantly it avoids flying over densely populated areas of London and the South East, removing completely the noise contours and impact which have bedevilled millions of people throughout and around London over the past 40 years," she said.

The consortium has said that although Heathrow would probably have to close, the opportunities for new housing, employment and economic regeneration were huge.

It said ^47bn would be recouped from the real estate value and closure of Heathrow.

Testrad said there could be a new London borough in the Heathrow area with 300,000 new houses and about 200,000 new jobs, along with economic regeneration of east London, Kent and Essex.

It said the runway configuration would allow three or four aircraft to operate at the same time, 24-hours-a-day in all weather conditions.

Logistics operations would be at Sheerness and the A249 would be upgraded to provide a new M2 connection.

Passenger check-in and arrival terminals would be at Ebbsfleet, next to the high speed rail link, and at King's Cross railway station in London.

There would be a long-term option of a check-in at the Royal Docks in east London and central London.

Testrad said check-in terminals would be linked to the airport by high speed rail tunnels and the estuary airport would be "car free with no private car access".

The London Britannia Airport is on the same site as the former "Boris Island" plan but the project was a new "iteration" of research conducted years ago, the spokeswoman added.

Testrad is the original agency formed by London Mayor Boris Johnson to look at the estuary airport option, but it now involves more partners including architecture, marine, environment, transport and aviation experts, she said.

Medway, Kent and Southend councils, the RSPB and environmental campaigners have opposed the estuary airport plans.

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/71042000/jpg/_71042044_londonbritannianoisereduxfrompng.jpg)
Testrad said all aircraft landing and departures would be over the estuary


Title: Re: 'Boris Island' airport discussion - merged posts
Post by: Kernow Otter on November 11, 2013, 21:22:29
Yet another transport infrastructure proposal with the needs of the South West at the heart of its thinking..... ???


Title: Re: 'Boris Island' airport discussion - merged posts
Post by: ellendune on November 11, 2013, 22:37:03
And even more expensive the HS2!


Title: Re: 'Boris Island' airport discussion - merged posts
Post by: JayMac on November 12, 2013, 00:09:58
Aside from cost, it makes far more sense than expanding Heathrow.


Title: Re: 'Boris Island' airport discussion - merged posts
Post by: ellendune on November 12, 2013, 00:19:39
You mean apart from the risk of sea bird strikes, being on the wrong side of London to most of the country and the job losses in West London


Title: Re: 'Boris Island' airport discussion - merged posts
Post by: paul7575 on November 12, 2013, 10:34:15
All the usual guff about 'possible remote check in'.   How come every time they've tried that so far, e.g. at Paddington or Victoria, it has always been abandoned later on.   Is that because the complexities of modern security and biometric passport checks etc don't really work for remote locations?

Paul


Title: Re: 'Boris Island' airport discussion - merged posts
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 02, 2014, 22:29:16
An update, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29021459):

Quote
Boris Island airport plan 'to be rejected'

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77313000/jpg/_77313538_77313537.jpg)
An artist's impression of the airport proposal on the Isle of Grain in the Thames Estuary

A plan for an island airport in the Thames estuary will be rejected, the BBC understands.

In response, an adviser to London mayor Boris Johnson, Daniel Moylan, said if true, it is "sadly short-sighted".

Known as "Boris Island" because of Mr Johnson's backing, it was one option being considered by the Airports Commission on how to expand airport capacity in the UK.

An official announcement is expected on Tuesday.

"Airports policy has been stalled for nearly five decades, ricocheting like a billiard ball between Heathrow and Gatwick," said Mr Moylan, aviation adviser to Mr Johnson. "We have only one opportunity to break out of that but it seems the Commission has taken us back to the same old failed choice."

He added that the final decision would rest with the government. "The key question now is whether the Airports Commission will play much of a role," he continued.

Earlier, the Financial Times reported that Whitehall sources had confirmed the "Boris Island" plan would be ruled out.

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77314000/jpg/_77314923_77314919.jpg)
The airport plans on the Isle of Grain were designed by Lord Foster's architectural firm

It would have led to the development of a four-runway airport on the Isle of Grain in the Thames Estuary.

The commission, led by Sir Howard Davies, was set up by the government to consider ways of expanding the UK's airport capacity. Its final report is expected next summer, after the general election.

The decision to eliminate Boris Island as an option would leave the commission with three alternatives: Adding a third runway at Heathrow, lengthening an existing runway at Heathrow, and a new runway at Gatwick.


Title: Re: 'Boris Island' airport discussion - merged posts
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 20, 2016, 20:37:46
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35855676):

Quote
Boris Johnson refloats Thames Estuary airport plan

Boris Johnson has refloated the idea of an island airport as an alternative to a third runway at Heathrow.

Plans to create a hub airport in the Thames Estuary were rejected by the Airports Commission (AC) in 2014.

In a report entitled Landing The Right Airport, the mayor says a four-runway airport east of London is the only way to secure enough capacity.

Opponents previously described "Boris Island" as "financially, geographically and environmentally wrong".

"If we are to secure the connectivity we need to support our future growth and prosperity and do so without dire impacts on public health - then we must do better than Heathrow," Mr Johnson said.

Building an airport at one of two locations in the Thames Estuary or expanding Stansted in Essex "away from populated areas" was the "only credible solution", according to the Mayor of London.

In his forward to the 78-page document, he added: "Each could accommodate the four-runway hub that London and the UK needs. Our analysis predicts that they would offer around double the number of long haul and domestic destinations served by Heathrow today, while exposing 95% fewer people to significant aircraft noise. A four-runway hub to the east of London, rather than jarring with the growth of London will support it, catalysing regeneration and housing to the east."

In July, the AC recommended building a new runway at Heathrow rather than providing a second runway at Gatwick. But it did not completely rule out another runway at Gatwick or doubling an existing runway at Heathrow.

(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/022B/production/_88555500__85942350_44f03f10-f6f6-4113-92fe-5a3aaa14631d.jpg)
Plans for the third runway include a new terminal and road layout

The government has delayed its decision on airport expansion in the South East until the summer at the earliest, saying more work needed to be done on the potential environmental impact.

In September 2014, Sir Howard Davies, chairman of the commission, said the cost, economic disruption and environmental issues made the Thames Estuary airport plan unviable.

Daniel Moylan, aviation adviser to Mr Johnson, said a hub airport to the east of London would cost ^20bn to ^25bn - with an extra ^25bn required to building road and rail connections.

Constructing a third runway at Heathrow is estimated to cost ^18.6bn, but Mr Moylan said that did not take into account the amount of money needed on surface access and measures to stop congestion, which the new report claims could be as high as ^20bn.



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