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Author Topic: Fares overhaul urged as Wales' most expensive stretch of rail track revealed  (Read 6545 times)
Chris from Nailsea
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« on: January 08, 2012, 16:09:10 »

From WalesOnline:

Quote
Rail passengers in some routes in Wales are being charged 10 TIMES more than those in other parts of the country after the latest round of inflation-busting fare rises.

Commuters on the country^s most expensive stretch of track ^ between Cardiff Bay and the capital^s Queen Street station ^ are now forced to fork out an eye-watering ^1.46 per mile.

Travelling from Cardiff to Edinburgh at the same rate per mile would cost more than ^600.

By contrast, passengers travelling from Bridgend to Rhoose ^ the cheapest route surveyed by a WoS study ^ pay just 14p per mile.

Both routes are operated by Arriva Trains Wales.

The huge discrepancy last night prompted calls for a ^complete overhaul^ of railway fares in the UK (United Kingdom).

A standard fare between Cardiff Queens Street and Cardiff Bay stations will cost you ^1.90 for a journey of around 1.3 miles, or ^1.46 per mile.

However a trip from Bridgend to Rhoose, the station for Cardiff Airport, will cost you ^2.20 for a approximately 16 mile journey, or 14p per mile.

The AA estimates that running a car that cost less than ^12,000 would cost 69p a mile if you drive less than 5,000 miles a year, falling to 34p if you do more than 20,000 miles.

Gareth Marston, chairman of the Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth Rail Passenger Association, said he could foresee a day when driving becomes the default cheaper option.

He said: ^I don^t think we^ve got there yet.

^It^s certainly because the cost of motoring has gone up so much. Part of the reason why there^s so many people travelling by train is because the cost of motoring has got a lot more expensive.

^There^s probably a tipping point somewhere, if they keep ramping the fares up, there will come a day when people are forced to chose between very expensive motoring and very expensive rail travel.

^There^s no consistency anywhere, it^s based on historical factors, what they thought they could get away with.

^The fares system is a complete pig^s ear and needs a complete overhaul.^

Mr Marston said the way the fares are set up discourages people from travelling, with a ticket to Cardiff from his hometown of Newtown only around ^10 cheaper than a journey to London.

He said timetables can also make journeys unattractive, while travelling from Newtown to Manchester is around ^20 cheaper than going to Cardiff, long times waiting for changes at Shrewsbury put passengers off.

John Rogers, chairman of the South Wales branch of Rail Future, said the anomalies and complexities in the system put people off travelling by train.

He said: ^It^s almost harking back to the British Rail days of management by price increase where they didn^t have the rolling stock to cope with passenger demand so they simply started raising the fares.^

Mr Rogers said his organisation had been lobbying the Welsh Government to set up a non-dividend paying rail operator to take over when Arriva^s contract ends, in order to ensure fares go back into the service rather than to pay shareholders.

And David Sidebottom, Passenger Focus director, said:^Less than two-thirds of passengers in Wales are happy with value for money, so they will be frustrated by this January^s fare rises.

^2011 saw the rail industry^s inefficiencies highlighted in a number of reports, so it must do better at delivering more punctual and reliable services for less money.^

But the train firm behind Wales^ cheapest and most expensive routes insisted its prices offered ^excellent value for money^.

Mike Bagshaw, commercial director for Arriva Trains Wales said: ^The change in fares reflects the rising costs together with the continuing investments to further enhance services.

^We continue to offer some of the cheapest rail fares in the UK for both daily and long distance journeys, and our average fare is still only ^3.70.

^Our prices offer excellent value for money and can represent a huge saving when compared to the cost of driving.^

An Arriva spokesman said a Hay Group study had also found that season tickets in Cardiff were the cheapest in comparison to salaries compared to other cities in the UK.
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Btline
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2012, 20:39:29 »

Rail passengers in Wales have been shocked to realise that they are paying TEN TIMES more than other parts of the Country. Stunned commuters turning up at Cardiff Bay this week to travel to Queen Street were forced to fork out an eye-watering ^1.46 per mile.

These fares have been branded "daylight robbery" and angry commuters are demanding a "complete overhaul" of the system. A source said: ^There^s no consistency anywhere, it^s based on historical factors, what they thought they could get away with..."

Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2012/01/08/fares-overhaul-urged-as-wales-most-expensive-stretch-of-rail-track-revealed-91466-30077831/?#ixzz1itweFXlB
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JayMac
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2012, 20:58:22 »

Btline. We have tabloids that are fine at doing the hyperbole. Is there really any need for you to add your own silly efforts?

By posting a link saying 'Read More' you are giving the false impression that what you have written is the same as the linked source. It isn't, as you well know. You do a disservice to the journalist who wrote the article by adding in your own bombastic language. And the quote you included is not from some mystery 'source' (another bit of silly apeing of tabloid style), it is attributed to a real identifiable person. There's no mention of 'angry commuters' or 'daylight robbery' in the article either.

For the benefit of all could you make clearer your own opinions and separate them from the articles you are linking to.

If you are doing it just for a reaction, then you've got one from me.  Roll Eyes Angry

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Btline
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2012, 22:35:11 »

Why the reaction? Cry

The "read more" was added in automatically when I copied a quote from the website (not sure how they do it - presumably to stop people plagiarising).

I always feel it is better to write a summary rather than paste the whole article due to copyright - indeed some websites tell you not to paste it into a forum. I feel the summary I wrote was consistent to the article, not intending to insult the journalist at all. I certainly think a summary is better than a link and mysterious title.

Bow Crow has recently branded the dare rises as "daylight robbery". I forgot to put his name in. I added this background info to provide perhaps more perspective than the original article.

I don't see what the problem is (except my omissions). As far as the person is concerned, I did not feel it was necessary to put the name here. If you want to know, follow the link.

Huh
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JayMac
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2012, 23:33:13 »

With regard copyright, there's little problem quoting news articles posted online. Nearly every news outlet with an online presence has a 'share' facility and copy and pasting news items is just another way of sharing. Myself and other moderators do it all the time. This website is non-commercial. You'll note that the topic you started has been combined with a thread already started where the full, unembellished, article has been quoted. Transforming articles (or extracts of articles passed of as a 'summary') may be more problematical, you are then potentially in the realms of plagiarism.

Provide a summary by quoting an extract by all means but I don't feel it necessary to embellish as you did. Best to quote articles or extracts verbatim (using a 'quote' box) and then comment on any particular points where you feel the need.

Initially I was confused. I read and re-read the article and used Google cache to check for an earlier version, to see if your 'summary' matched what was in the article. It didn't.
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matt473
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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2012, 01:36:49 »

Of course this is sensationalist that is purely about selling papers than looking at facts. The local train service from Ammanford to Swansea for example is more than a pound cheaper than travelling by bus and the price a reuturn on the train would barely cover parking in Swansea. Why do they show rail fares in comparison to other forms of transport which would give a more true reflection. Yes I know frequency, convience etc. over car use comes into play but if rail is cheaper than other forms of travel, then there is no problem about fare increases that are reasonable. The problem of fare rises occurs when it makes driving or catching bus services cheaper which is when a problem occurs or prices become to great preventing people getting to work, travelling cheaply for meetings etc. Then a valid complaint can be made about negative effects this would have on the economy. To me it seems everyone complains about fare increases for the sake of it as a basis for a good moan.

(Btw I actually don't agree with fare rises and rail needs to be cheaper with greater capcity to encourage usage. However a balanced approach to fare rises, why they rise and the comparison to other transport methods is essential to not seem like complaining for the sake of it)
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Rhydgaled
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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2012, 11:20:54 »

Matt is right that a comparison with other modes is more important than the comparison between different parts of the rail network the headline is talking about. However, with such disparity between cost per mile in different areas, unless the cost of the alternatives also rise in these areas, it could mean rail is more expensive than the other modes in those areas.

While the continued above inflation rail fare rises are frustrating, I wouldn't mind so much if the cost of motoring and aviation was going up at least as fast. However, with the government now throwing several billions a year (to put that in perspective their half-hearted GWML (Great Western Main Line) electrification scheme is ^1bn in total from the day they start work right through to 2017) at the petrol pumps to keep fuel prices down the cost of rail travel looks like climbing above that of road transport.

As for aviation, I assume a flight to Ireland must consume more fuel than the Stena Lynx fast ferry crossing from Fishguard to Rosslare. However, the cost of the fuel for the Lynx has forced Stena to sell it and drop the fast ferry service, yet the airlines don't seem to struggle with the cost of their fuel.

Also, the title of Bt Line's topic says fares WILL be overhaulled in Wales. Is an overhaul actually going to happen?
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inspector_blakey
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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2012, 17:18:02 »

However, the cost of the fuel for the Lynx has forced Stena to sell it and drop the fast ferry service, yet the airlines don't seem to struggle with the cost of their fuel.

I'm not familiar with the technical specifications of the Lynx vessel but it may well be that it can't use the same kind of heavy fuel oil as traditional ships: this is relatively inexpensive as it's not much use for anything other than marine applications.

The airlines get by in two ways: firstly the bigger ones get through so much Jet A-1 that they have massive buying power, enabling them to negotiate favourable terms and hedge prices. Although Stena's a large ferry operator I would guess that they don't have the same negotiating power. The other way is by slapping fuel surcharges on the price of tickets; for a return transatlantic ticket I bought last week the fare component was $193 with a fuel surcharge of $396  Undecided
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grahame
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2012, 19:22:58 »

a) On Stena ... the ferry market is shaking out and thinning - over the past few years, Cambeltown to Ballycastle, Mostyn to Dublin, Birkenhead to Dublin, and perhaps others have been lost across the Irish seat. Just today there's news of the loss on Sea France, and goodness only knows how many other routes have gone or been cut back.  I remember using Newcastle to Stavanger, Harwich to Oslo and Dover to Oostende.   The cost of fuel may be one reason, but I suspect there's simply too muh capacity, and the calculation's probably been made that not-much business will be lost by cutting Lynx, with people using the ferry instead. 

b) On Cardiff Bay fares.  There's an interesting thought here - if rail fares were to be sorted out, then one possible algorithm would be fixed ticket cost + amout per mile (let's say 2 pounds per ticket transaction + 18p / mile) and if that's the case the journeys that are so short that you think "couldn't you just walk",  such as  Covent Garden to Leicester Square will end up very expensive if you work it out just as pence per mile.  BUT I actually support the fixed amount + pence per mile formula.  It's realistic in that it makes a charge for ticket issue, station use, etc and a secnd charge for the actual carriage.  It tempts people not to do split tickets;  it tempts them to book returns as they're 2 pounds cheaper than two singles.  And it avoids cross-line comparisions in the way we sometimes see. Of course, it wont happen even if the pence-per-mile means the scheme is revenue neutral, as those who have  to pay more will scream and shout long, and those who get a reduction will quickly forget their good fortune.  And the formula would need other elements to deal with First Class, offpeak and other load-balancing techniques, etc, and of course a whole load of valid route tables ...
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matt473
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2012, 22:47:23 »

Tbh I find the fare between Cardiff Bay and Queen Street to be a relateively pointless fare as from what I've gathered a ticket to Central or Queen Street costs the same as to the bay so most rail users will be through travellers anyway from further afield. Local people that will travel between the Bay and the Centre would probably use the bus which would be more convenient and cheaper. Having just looked at the price of Filton Abbey Wood to Bristol Parkway it is of a similair level so should we demand a price overhaul in the Bristol area? This puts emphasis on the point that context is everything here as yes fares are expensive, but journailists should use look at realistic fares on routes people mainly use, not high fares for short distances that few people actually purchase. As Graham has pointed out, these fares are for stations in walking distance but this info is of no releveance to journalists with papers to sell.
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