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Author Topic: Theresa May calls for fast Twyford & Maidenhead trains to London to be maintained  (Read 18360 times)
eightf48544
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« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2012, 11:17:47 »

Industry Insider is right in his previous post that Crossrail should run to Reading and the turnback sidings at Maidenhead scrapped (saving money yippe!).

But in order to maintain the current fasts from Twyford/Miadenhead/Slough then the money  needs to be spent remodeliing the Ladbroke to give parrellel access from Up Main/Line 6 Line 5/Down main to enable them to get into the Crossrail tunnels. Ideally one would like a grade separated junction. B with one crossover there is room to do SN120 (junction signal for Up Main to lines 2/3) to Line 4, giving a parrallel move for Line 3 (SN109) to the Down Main. There would then be a need to for a double left junction from Line 4 to 6 with a parrllel Line 5 to 3. That coupled with a full  parrel double right juction (as at Dolphin jn)  at Stockley Brook would give a lot of flexibility.

Left and right looking from Paddington down the line.

However, the problem is that Crossrail and GWML (Great Western Main Line) electrification (with Reading Rebuild) are being treated as two separate projects. Therefore, when it started Crossrail only had the money to wire from Airport Junction to Maidenhead and build turnback sidings but now Networkrail has money to electrify the GWML and is rebuilding Reding to increase capacity.

Now to my mind any sensible person would say right we are in whole new ball game in Thames Valley we will have elctrification to Reading, Oxford and Newbury and we will have two tracks connecting at Paddington from the Crossrail tunnel. So what local services do we need and which go to Padd and which pop down the tunnel. Bearing in mind that Crossrail will be running 24tph down the tunnel of which only 10tph can come from the GWML. So what extra Main Relief Crossovers do we need and Industry Insider has suggest a full set at Stockley  Brook and I've suggested another set between Ladbroke Grove or slighly further out and the  tunnel mouth.

Basically Crossrail as such should be scrapped of West of  Westbourne Park and incprporated in GWML electrification/Reading rebuild, which should be in place before the first train pops out of the tunnel at Westbourne Park.

But that's too easy.

I always tell people we don't want Crossrail in the Thames Valley we want an electric railwy (including wires over Maidenhead Bridge!) which if there happens to be tunnel at Paddington that a train can pop into then that's to the good, but not at the exspense of the existing travel patterns in the Thames Valley which include a lot of intermediate travel in both direction which doses't include Paddington or Central London , basically being to and from most stations West of Ealing.   
 
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« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2012, 13:47:33 »


True, but if that meant you were a commuter from Maidenhead to the City and all peak hours Crossrail trains from Maidenhead did stop at Taplow, Burnham, Slough, Langley, Iver, West Drayton, Hayes & Harlington and Ealing Broadway then that would mean slower journey times than a change at Paddington on one of the current 22 minute (or thereabouts) non-stop service to Paddington - so I foresee there still being a demand/need for them.
Yes, you have a point, although I would add that there is a lot to be said for having access to a seat for the entire journey to the city, as well as not having to make interchange at Paddington. For some, it might be worth an extra 15 minutes to get to Paddington.

I think the future GW (Great Western) franchise will still want to run fast trains from places like Twyford and Maidenhead however. Let's not forget, that there's going to be an extra track provided between West Drayton and Langley, electrification and ETCS (European Train Control System) introduced on the GWML (Great Western Main Line).

There will also be 2TPH from Reading calling at Twyford, Maidenhead, Slough, Hayes & Harlington, Ealing Broadway and Paddington, which should also provide a service quicker than Crossrail to Paddington.
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bobm
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« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2012, 14:30:36 »

That coupled with a full  parrel double right juction (as at Dolphin jn)  at Stockley Brook would give a lot of flexibility.

Sorry, just trying to follow this.  Would Stockley Brook, in your proposal, be a new crossover?  I am trying to work out where that is.

When was the Longfield crossover, scene of the derailment in the 1970s, removed?  I remember seeing the nameboard for it in the late 1970s but can't remember when I stopped seeing it.
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eightf48544
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« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2012, 14:56:45 »

To be aparrallel junction Stockley Brook would require two crossovers, Up Relief, Down Relief, Down Relief Up main space liked dolphin sot ath a trains cold run Down MAin Down Relief and Up relief down Amin in parrallell.

Not sure when Longfield was removed but it was in the latter days only Down Main to Down Releif like the existing Stockley Brook one.
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« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2012, 18:33:06 »

There are more significant changes on there way other than electrification called ETCS (European Train Control System) and ETRMS these will significantly improve train paths in the TV so much so it may mean that some of the slow, to accelerate, diesel powered trains from the West Country may have to terminate at Reading, they will just eat up too many train paths.


........ Electric Train puts his tin hat on and ducks  Grin
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
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« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2012, 09:56:21 »

Why should Maidenhead residents get a non-stop service just because their MP (Member of Parliament) is a Cabinet Minister?

If I lived at (say) Langley or Acton, I would like a non stop to Liverpool St, if I (say) worked there.
 
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paul7575
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« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2012, 10:22:00 »

To be aparrallel junction Stockley Brook would require two crossovers, Up Relief, Down Relief, Down Relief Up main space liked dolphin sot ath a trains cold run Down MAin Down Relief and Up relief down Amin in parrallell.

Not sure when Longfield was removed but it was in the latter days only Down Main to Down Releif like the existing Stockley Brook one.

Any chance of a translation of the first paragraph?  That must be the most casual typing in months...

Paul
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paul7575
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« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2012, 10:27:30 »

Why should Maidenhead residents get a non-stop service just because their MP (Member of Parliament) is a Cabinet Minister?

Is that really what she's implying?  It's not really any different to any MP's position on their local rail service, similar quotes can be found for just about every constituency when/where there's a change proposed, normally the MP acts all surprised despite being sent a personal copy of the consultation document. 

The public line then taken is almost always 'no reduction in services', with no question of allowing change for the greater good.

Paul
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« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2012, 16:14:33 »


Electrification will also allow more/speeded up services to be shoehorned in on the GWML (Great Western Main Line).

I heard that "speeded up" argument from First when they took over in 2004/5.
Absolute rubbish as it turned out.
I'm not sure electrics will be the panacea that may be placed upon them.
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Western Enterprise
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« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2012, 16:19:01 »


True, but if that meant you were a commuter from Maidenhead to the City and all peak hours Crossrail trains from Maidenhead did stop at Taplow, Burnham, Slough, Langley, Iver, West Drayton, Hayes & Harlington and Ealing Broadway then that would mean slower journey times than a change at Paddington on one of the current 22 minute (or thereabouts) non-stop service to Paddington - so I foresee there still being a demand/need for them.
Spot on, just witness the crush on the fast trains vs the slowers.
In crossrail mode they will be probably be jammed full across the city ; little chance of a seat.
At least with a start at PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains) means more chance or a seat on the way home. I wouldn't want to stand for 30/40 mins on a swaying train to the outer suburbs.
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« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2012, 16:29:13 »

Why should Maidenhead residents get a non-stop service just because their MP (Member of Parliament) is a Cabinet Minister?



Theresa campaigned for M'head commuters when First first f***ed up the timetable, when she was deep in opposition, so there is nothing new here....
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swrural
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« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2012, 17:35:15 »

I only mentioned her because her lobby on this was the article I read.  Doubtless, all other MPs (Member of Parliament) on the Crossrail trajectory will be saying the same.  The issue is what decides whether one gets a fast or slower commuter service?

Just by the way, I assume that if you do not have to change trains at Paddington, a slower through service could beat a faster one that terminated there.

But what criteria should be used?  Why do travellers on suburban trains such as the bus-like ones pay the same (perhaps more) than those on swish express trains?
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« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2012, 10:02:02 »


Electrification will also allow more/speeded up services to be shoehorned in on the GWML (Great Western Main Line).

I heard that "speeded up" argument from First when they took over in 2004/5.
Absolute rubbish as it turned out.
I'm not sure electrics will be the panacea that may be placed upon them.
It's a fact that electric trains have faster acceleration than diesel ones.

Electric trains have been around for a century. Whenever services have been converted from steam or diesel, services have been speeded up. Are you denying 100 years of history?
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« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2012, 11:31:06 »

Electric trains have been around for a century. Whenever services have been converted from steam or diesel, services have been speeded up. Are you denying 100 years of history?

I'm sure journey times will come down as a result of electrification, and in the case of IEPs (Intercity Express Program / Project.) replacing HSTs (High Speed Train) the power operated doors will help with reducing station dwell times enormously as well.  Though I'll be interested to see whether (and how often) the 17 minute reduction from Cardiff to London and 22 minutes from Bristol to London claimed in the original electrification documents is achieved. 

As for Crossrail, I think only modest journey time increases will be achieved - and a great deal will depend on calling patterns which we don't know much about yet.  For example if you're going from Maidenhead to Ealing Broadway, the Crossrail website suggests it will take 29 minutes, that's against the current journey time of 31/32 minutes (a few more in the peak hours).
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To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
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« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2012, 10:40:08 »

As for Crossrail, I think only modest journey time increases will be achieved - and a great deal will depend on calling patterns which we don't know much about yet.  For example if you're going from Maidenhead to Ealing Broadway, the Crossrail website suggests it will take 29 minutes, that's against the current journey time of 31/32 minutes (a few more in the peak hours).

That is spot on II, its all about dwell times at stations. Stations on the WR are not that far apart, so acceleration savings won't be too great. Stations will have to be rebuilt to allow more access to more doors on more longer trains. Try getting 40/50 people onto a Mk3 carriage and it takes several minutes.

Given Brunels legacy, the WR is pretty level and straight (east of devon anyway) compared to say the WCML (West Coast Main Line), with its ups and downs and curves, so replacing the old hand fired Duchess^s with 5,000hp electics in the early 60^s had far more affect than would be replacing 4,400hp HST (High Speed Train)^s.





Edit note: Quote marks fixed. CfN.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 17:30:21 by chris from nailsea » Logged
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