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Author Topic: Filming of station staff  (Read 26847 times)
vacmanfan
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« on: April 16, 2012, 21:00:43 »

Hi

Sorry - wasn't sure where to post this thread..

Can anyone shed any light on the following matter, which unfortunately, I can't go into too much detail.

Member of station staff is deliberately filmed without authorisation on station premises by somebody with no intention of travelling.   

Sorry for being vague but cannot go into any more detail at this time.  Could I walk into.an estate agents and openly film the staff at work? 

What is the law and more importantly specific to the railway. 
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Tim
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« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2012, 21:34:31 »

AIUI (as I understand it),  Filming in a public place is legal.  It might not be polite but it is legal.   A station counts as a public place, but presumably a member of staff could ask a person with no intention of travelling (loitering) to leave and failure to comply with such a request is I think a by-law request.

AIUI,  you could walk into an estate agents or shop and film the staff, but they could ask you to leave.
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grahame
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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2012, 21:51:46 »

Hmmm ...

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/777.aspx#photography says

Quote
Photography

You can take photographs at stations provided you do not sell them. However, you are not allowed to take photographs of security related equipment, such as CCTV (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) cameras.

Flash photography on platforms is not allowed at any time. It can distract train drivers & train despatch staff and so is potentially very dangerous.

Tripod legs must be kept away from platform edges and behind the yellow lines. On busy stations, you may not be allowed to use a tripod because it could be a dangerous obstruction to passengers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photography_and_the_law says

Quote
Persistent or aggressive photography of a single individual may come under the legal definition of harassment

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EBrown
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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2012, 21:55:46 »

Filming in a public place is legal.  It might not be polite but it is legal.   A station counts as a public place, but presumably a member of staff could ask a person with no intention of travelling (loitering) to leave and failure to comply with such a request is I think a by-law request.

AIUI (as I understand it),  you could walk into an estate agents or shop and film the staff, but they could ask you to leave.
On private land you can prevent photography. Someone who persistently takes photographs (with direction not to) is liable to a harassment charge.
Taking a photo of anybody in a Court is contempt.

The station owner can tell you not to take photos. Failure to stop could well be a criminal offence.
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EBrown
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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2012, 21:59:05 »

Darn, Graham beat me to the harassment charge.

Worth noting that almost all commercial filming requires the written consent of a TOC (Train Operating Company).

FGW (First Great Western) Guidelines for filming.
Quote
GUIDELINES FOR FILMING / PHOTOGRAPHY ON FIRST GREAT WESTERN (FGW)
PROPERTY OR TRAINS

General points
FGW^s service to their customers will always remain the priority when considering filming requests.
FGW reserves the right to interrupt or halt any filming and photography in progress without notice.
FGW train and station jurisdiction covers the following areas: trains & stations on all parts of the FGW network with the exception of London Paddington Station and stations in Wales.
Customers/staff may not be filmed or interviewed without the prior written permission of FGW.
Branding and signage of business partners must not be filmed without the permission of the business concerned.

Scheduling
FGW have identifiably busy times of the year when filming requests cannot be considered.  These are primarily December (when the new timetables are introduced) and January (when the new fares are announced.)   Outside those periods filming requests will be considered and local Station Managers consulted over preferred dates.  An example when filming at, for instance Bristol Temple Meads, would be refused is on a weekend when there is an event at the Millenium Stadium in Cardiff due to the high volume of customers using the station.
Filming and photography will be discouraged during busy peak times 07.00 ^ 10.00 and 16.00 ^ 19.00 Monday ^ Fridays.  We try to discourage filming work at the weekends due to engineering works, however these are organised some time in advance and advice can be given on this.
Start and end times for filming must be agreed in advance and must be strictly adhered to.

Health & Safety
FGW may occasionally require film crews to be accompanied by an escort from FGW and the production will be required to pay for this in addition to the agreed filming fee.
Health and Safety requirements must be complied with at all times. A full risk assessment must be undertaken by the film company and this assessment plus plans and filming schedules must be submitted in advance.
Safety briefings are mandatory prior to any filming / photography being allowed and productions/companies must allocate the appropriate time within their filming schedule for this to happen.  All members of the production team must attend this briefing; failure to do this will mean that they cannot be part of the crew working on FGW property.
A copy of your insurance policy must be submitted. A level of ^5 million is required, with no exceptions.
For safety reasons the use of film lights of any kind shall not be permitted on FGW property or trains. 
Tripods and camera track may be allowed by discussion with the Press Office and Station Manager and staff, but are generally discouraged,
No trailing cables that might create a trip-hazard will be allowed and normal safe working practice should be followed at all times.

Other points:
Filming on a train will usually be arranged to take place in carriage H (First Class carriage on high-speed trains (HST (High Speed Train)) in order to minimise disruption to our customers.  It is unlikely filming will be permitted on other types of train.
Filming fees will be negotiated on an individual basis and will depend on the type of production.  It is FGW^s policy that all filming fees will be paid to green or children^s charities.
FGW would appreciate contact with the production / company after filming / photography so that they can be kept informed over transmission / publication dates of material shot on their property / trains.  When possible a DVD copy of material shot should be provided so that it can be internally promoted.  Feedback from shoots would also be much appreciated.
To book filming, A minimum of 10 working days notice is required for photographic / documentary shoots.
      A minimum of 15 working days notice is required for drama / feature film requests.

For further information please complete the Initial Enquiry Form and return it to:
John Ratchford
Press Officer
First Great Western Communications
Macmillan House
Paddington Station
LONDON
W2 1FT
 (t)  0845 410 4444
(e) john.ratchford@firstgroup.com
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Btline
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« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2012, 22:03:25 »

Why can't you take photos of CCTV (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) cameras? Obviously, no-one normally would want to, but it seems like paranoia to me.

What about armed police at stations? Does it make the station safer from suicide bomber? Does it re-assure or scare the public?

Debatable where the line should be drawn.
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EBrown
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« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2012, 22:06:12 »

Why can't you take photos of CCTV (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) cameras? Obviously, no-one normally would want to, but it seems like paranoia to me.

What about armed police at stations? Does it make the station safer from suicide bomber? Does it re-assure or scare the public?

Debatable where the line should be drawn.
It is an offence under section 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000 to take a photograph of a kind likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism.
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paul7575
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« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2012, 22:24:42 »

Whenever these debates come up, I can't help feeling that photography and filming have different day to day meanings.  Hence when the TOCs (Train Operating Company) talk about people 'filming' they mean something different to what I'd call 'photography'. 

The FGW (First Great Western) quote above seems to me to aimed clearly at professional/commercial end of the business - but the correct guidelines for taking pictures of trains etc will presumably be the normal ones agreed by ATOC» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) and BTP (British Transport Police)?

It is important to be clear what sort of 'filming/photography' is taking place before getting into a detailed debate...

Paul
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vacmanfan
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« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2012, 22:36:50 »

AIUI (as I understand it),  Filming in a public place is legal.  It might not be polite but it is legal.   A station counts as a public place, but presumably a member of staff could ask a person with no intention of travelling (loitering) to leave and failure to comply with such a request is I think a by-law request.

AIUI,  you could walk into an estate agents or shop and film the staff, but they could ask you to leave.

Who defines public place? 
Anywhere the public can go?  As such could you walk into a police station and film?
I always classed the railway as private property?
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paul7575
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« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2012, 22:41:58 »

I think that's a good point.  Stations are 'open to the public' - but they aren't 'public places', because signage is normally in place explaining that access is only permitted to those having business on the railway.  (Those may not be the exact words though.)

Paul
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TonyK
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« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2012, 22:47:10 »

I like a common sense view of this. I am sure not all railway staff join with the ambition of starring in videos, and some may feel the same sense of reluctance to be filmed at work without being asked as I would. Nevertheless, it is a public place, the normal rules apply. Anyone who tries to take a picture of an armed policeman without his consent is either very brave or very stupid. They probably won't shoot you, but there are other things they can do that will make you uncomfortable for a while.

Taking photos of CCTV (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) cameras must be one of the most pointless activities on this planet, unless you are looking for weak links in the security systems with evil in mind. Until digital cameras, no-one would ever bother, and I'm not sure why anyone would do so now. I may be in a minority with this view.
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bobm
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« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2012, 23:04:41 »

I take the view that I wouldn't be too keen to be filmed or photographed when I am at work without being asked first.  By the same token when I was involved with an incident on the railway last year (cows on the line) and I had some photos which unavoidably included railway staff I, with the help of someone else on this forum, had them pixelated to preserve their anonimity before posting them to a wider audience.
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BerkshireBugsy
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« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2012, 05:45:24 »

I take the view that I wouldn't be too keen to be filmed or photographed when I am at work without being asked first. 

Hear hear ! When I arrive back in Reading on my journey home I have wanted to take pictures of the progress ref platform 5 for posting on this forum but have avoided doing so because I respect the "privacy" of the workers (members of te public wouldn't be present in the photos).

Although I have the ability to pixel out any workers faces I feel it is wrong to do so in the first place without asking permission.besides I'm in too much of a rush to use the loos on the main concourse Smiley
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Phil
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« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2012, 07:59:27 »

My first reaction was that I wouldn't care to be filmed without my permission whilst I am at work either. But then, thinking about it further (possibly too much, as is my wont!) - what about the common situation where I am sat on a train doing some work on my laptop. I glance up, and there is the unwinking eye of a security camera recording my every move. Have I given that camera permission to film me? Is it in the conditions of carriage somewhere?
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vacmanfan
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« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2012, 08:25:22 »

To shed some more light on this matter, a passenger arrived with no ticket or money and details were taken to process a TIR (Travel Irregularity Report), parent then arrived with ticket and TIR was binned with no further action - parent then still persued matter and filmed member of staff even when.asked to stop also claiming he had every right as he was a police officer. 
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