Bristol Temple Meads Station redevelopment

[whole diary]

[Red Squirrel]

NR^» (Network Rail - home page) have submitted plans to replace the lighting inside BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) ( see http://planningonline.bristol.gov.uk/online-applications/search.do?action=simple&searchType=Application, and search for 15/02789/LA ). My observations, for what they're worth:

1. Either of my 9-year-olds could have done better drawings of the light fittings;
2. Any hope that BRI is to be refurbished to a standard befitting its historic significance is starting to evaporate - from their aesthetics, one might be forgiven for wondering if NR bought the lights cheaply after German reunification made the border floodlights surplus to requirements.

[ellendune]

I'll add my thanks for all that interesting information.  Off course there will also be implications for the current side entrance to Temple Meads once the track goes down over what is now part of the public access, short to middle term at least.

I think that is part of the passenger flow considerations in the new design

[TonyK]

NR^» (Network Rail - home page) have submitted plans to replace the lighting inside BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) ( see http://planningonline.bristol.gov.uk/online-applications/search.do?action=simple&searchType=Application, and search for 15/02789/LA ). My observations, for what they're worth:

1. Either of my 9-year-olds could have done better drawings of the light fittings;
2. Any hope that BRI is to be refurbished to a standard befitting its historic significance is starting to evaporate - from their aesthetics, one might be forgiven for wondering if NR bought the lights cheaply after German reunification made the border floodlights surplus to requirements.

Harsh, but possibly fair. I don't think we can expect the return of atmospheric gas lighting. Hopefully, LEDs will evolve further before the lamps for this job are ordered - they can have a cold light that looks out of place almost anywhere. The benefit is, as you know, they are cheap to run, using a fraction of the power of an incandescent lamp, and lasting many times longer. The downside is that we will be stuck with whatever is installed for a long time, waiting for it to go wrong so we can replace it.

[ellendune]

NR^» (Network Rail - home page) have submitted plans to replace the lighting inside BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) ( see http://planningonline.bristol.gov.uk/online-applications/search.do?action=simple&searchType=Application, and search for 15/02789/LA ). My observations, for what they're worth:

1. Either of my 9-year-olds could have done better drawings of the light fittings;
2. Any hope that BRI is to be refurbished to a standard befitting its historic significance is starting to evaporate - from their aesthetics, one might be forgiven for wondering if NR bought the lights cheaply after German reunification made the border floodlights surplus to requirements.

I disagree. In fact I could not disagree more.
1. The drawing that is a sketch is perfectly serviceable.  Why does it need to be anything more than that for this purpose?
2. a) You do not see the lights at that height - you see the effect of the lighting.  As an example of good use of modern LED lighting in a listed
        building I would suggest you look at Tewkesbury Abbey.  The fittings are not hidden, but they are hardly visible. If LEDs can be made to work in a
        medieval grade 1 listed abbey, Temple Meads should be a doddle!
    b) From my (limited) experience of lighting schemes in listed buildings I am encouraged.  Particularly the use of uplighters to light the architectural
        features of the roof.  In my experience this removes the feeling that you have a hanging darkness above you.

[Red Squirrel]

I don't think we can expect the return of atmospheric gas lighting

Well...

I disagree. In fact I could not disagree more.
1. The drawing that is a sketch is perfectly serviceable.  Why does it need to be anything more than that for this purpose?
2. a) You do not see the lights at that height - you see the effect of the lighting.  As an example of good use of modern LED lighting in a listed
        building I would suggest you look at Tewkesbury Abbey.  The fittings are not hidden, but they are hardly visible. If LEDs can be made to work in a
        medieval grade 1 listed abbey, Temple Meads should be a doddle!
    b) From my (limited) experience of lighting schemes in listed buildings I am encouraged.  Particularly the use of uplighters to light the architectural
        features of the roof.  In my experience this removes the feeling that you have a hanging darkness above you.

It's true that the drawings don't need to be much cop if the scheme is a fait accompli and their only purpose is to tell people where to put the lights and ensure they don't fall on anyone. But it's also true that they don't really give much of an impression of how the lights will actually look, beyond 'basic'.

A key difference between Temple Meads and Tewkesbury Abbey is that Temple Meads had a lighting scheme when built, and we know what it looked like because we have photos. I think that something like the original pendants, coupled with modern discrete LED uplighters, would better reflect the building's heritage than simply leaving out a key part of it's original look. I'm not trying to reverse history; I just think it's a shame to lose an opportunity to enhance Temple Meads which, like Tewkesbury Abbey, is Grade 1 listed.

[johnneyw]

Again many thanks for all the information. Jury is out with me as to the lighting but the above discussion is what I love about this forum. Should be interesting to see how the current side access is actually resolved, hardly use anything but that entrance these days. There's a lot of the heritage of the station that needs preserving but I'm open to new improvements being able to actually enhance the heritage features. After all some of our most celebrated stately homes and cathedrals are the product of centuries of embellishment.

[ellendune]

It's true that the drawings don't need to be much cop if the scheme is a fait accompli and their only purpose is to tell people where to put the lights and ensure they don't fall on anyone. But it's also true that they don't really give much of an impression of how the lights will actually look, beyond 'basic'.

I contend that the sketch is perfectly adequate, together with the other illustrations,  to tell you what the fittings will look like. at the distance they will be from the viewer I doubt they will see very much anyway. 

A key difference between Temple Meads and Tewkesbury Abbey is that Temple Meads had a lighting scheme when built, and we know what it looked like because we have photos. I think that something like the original pendants, coupled with modern discrete LED uplighters, would better reflect the building's heritage than simply leaving out a key part of it's original look. I'm not trying to reverse history; I just think it's a shame to lose an opportunity to enhance Temple Meads which, like Tewkesbury Abbey, is Grade 1 listed.

Tewkesbury had an atmospheric lighting scheme when built.  It probably involved a mixture of tallow candles, beeswax candles and rush lights.  It was probably vey atmospheric (i.e. smokey in this case). No one would suggest recreating that.  To recreate the original atmosphere of Temple Meads we would also need to do away with diesels and reintroduce stream engines as they undoubtedly contributed to the atmosphere both visually and nasally.  If you just want the colour of gas lights then I am sure the LED people could do something near - at least nearer than the existing lighting.  Do you really want authenticity or a good lighting scheme that really shows off the architecture of the grade 1 listed interior?

[PhilWakely]

This should be made a 'listed, protected vista' (OK - without those temporary fences to the left and chimney to the right) 

I am not sure what I'd prefer if I had the choice...... this; this+PO conveyor; or this + loadsa wires!

[Red Squirrel]

Do you really want authenticity or a good lighting scheme that really shows off the architecture of the grade 1 listed interior?

That's a false dichotomy: we could have both; prominent period-style pendants coupled with discrete LED uplighters.

[TonyK]

That's a false dichotomy: we could have both; prominent period-style pendants coupled with discrete LED uplighters.

I've seen it all now. This is surely one for the Pendants' Thread. 

[Red Squirrel]

This should be made a 'listed, protected vista'

Not before the truncated section of the Terminus Shed is rebuilt!

[johnneyw]

I've been curious for a while to know what the scaffolding between platforms 1 and 3 at Temple Meads is for. It's been there a while with no visible sign of work on it. I suspect its a temporary fix for something until the new platforms to the old Digby Wyatt extension are got started on. Anybody got any idea?

Also saw today that the work on the now demolished conveyor bridge buildings is looking nearly ready, lighting just about installed and metal caps on the lift shafts being fitted.

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the Western Daily Press:

Great-great-great grandson of Isambard Kingdom Brunel set to visit Bristol Temple Meads in honour

The great-great-great grandson of Isambard Kingdom Brunel will tomorrow follow in his footsteps by visiting the iconic train station he designed as part of a project to honour him.

The famed railway engineer designed Bristol's Temple Meads station and his descendant Isambard Thomas, 51, will be returning to the landmark tomorrow.

The graphic artist has been commissioned to create a print of the Bristol to Paddington line - one of his relative's greatest achievements.

Workaholic Brunel engineered the line by walking for miles and miles to expertly plan the route on the flattest land for the Great Western Railway.

Now First Great Western, who run trains on the route, is taking on the company's name, and as part of the re-branding have asked Isambard junior to create a modern print.

Isambard said: "It is a great honour to work on a project which was so close to my great, great, great grandfather's heart. I have prints from the time which show how stations and the line used to look and I can compare them with how they look now.

"I have recently visited the Box Hill tunnel, which was a remarkable feature at the time. To build it they had to build 14 shafts down through a hill. All the earth was taken out through the shafts. The brickwork in those shafts is still beautiful and the tunnel is still in good condition, a testament to the work carried out at the time."

The re-branding by First Great Western is part of a massive investment in stations, trains and infrastructure to restore the route to its former glory.

It will be renamed the Great Western Railway, the name of the company which employed Isambard, on September 20.

[Red Squirrel]

Slightly peripheral to this topic, but there's a YouTube vid of the Arena Island (why do they call it that?) bridge being slid into place here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSnn2_Dwk2A

[TonyK]

Slightly peripheral to this topic, but there's a YouTube vid of the Arena Island (why do they call it that?) bridge being slid into place here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSnn2_Dwk2A

Good to see - I have been watching that bridge grow during my visits to Temple Meads.

...Arena Island (why do they call it that?)...

Because it's going to have an Arenal on it. D'uh!