Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 04:15 07 Feb 2023
- Trial of scrapping train return tickets extended
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 01/03/23 - WWRUG AGM
30/03/23 - Railfuture Annual, Leeds
31/05/23 - WWRUG meeting
08/07/23 - WWRUG Weymouth trip

On this day
7th Feb (1855)
Boiler explosion, Gloucester (link)

Train RunningDelayed
23:32 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
PollsThere are no open or recent polls
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
February 07, 2023, 04:18:27 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[91] Shawford station building reopens after 40 years
[76] Return rail tickets to be scrapped
[75] OTD -5th February (1971) - Taunton to Minehead foundation meet...
[53] May 2023 timetable
[46] Aberthaw Power Station and Decarbonisation
[38] Lorry driver crisis made worse by Covid - Shapps
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14 15 ... 27
  Print  
Author Topic: Class 180s return to the Cotswolds  (Read 189083 times)
IndustryInsider
Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9561


View Profile
« Reply #180 on: December 11, 2012, 12:18:54 pm »

There has been an alteration to the diagrams at Oxford at that time. 2Y94, 1522 Great Malvern-Didcot Parkway forms 2E95, 1715 Didcot Parkway-Great Malvern. 1D43, 1450 London Paddington-Oxford after a layover in Oxford Carriage Sidings now forms 2P74, 1706 Oxford-London Paddington. The services have effectively swapped round with inbound services now forming different outbound services, but all are still booked 180s. The diagram for the 1706 Oxford-London Paddington is now one which has been a 180 much more reliably so far.

Spot on with the diagram changes, though I'll disagree with the 17:06ex Oxford reliably being a Class 180 - can't remember the last time it was, and the 'Halts' diagram has been a Turbo quite often recently.  Perhaps things will change over the coming weeks, but the two diagrams you mentioned are the two that are regularly Turbo operated, in the case of the 'Halts' train in the evening that means that (for the last two days at least) the 07:00 OXF» (Oxford - next trains)-PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains) has been a 2-car Class 165 (hellishly overcrowded) and the 12:21 PAD-GMV is formed by the same set (badly overcrowded as far as Oxford).  The 'Halts' train just about copes as a 2-car as it has done for years as it's only full to bursting as far as Hanborough, though the back working (19:44 GMV-PAD) gets pretty full after Oxford.

The other Turbo-tised diagram the last two days is at least a 3-car and works the 07:21 OXF-PAD, 09:21 PAD-WOF, 12:06 WOF-PAD, 14:50 PAD-OXF, 17:06 OXF-PAD, 19:18 PAD-OXF.  All of which can cope with a 3-car Turbo as well as they can with a Class 180 (if not slightly better in the case of the peak hour trains), but this still means poor facilities on the longer distance trips.

The other two diagrams have been Class 180s this week, and usually have been over the past couple of weeks.  It remains a most unsatisfactory position though!
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
lordgoata
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 415



View Profile
« Reply #181 on: December 11, 2012, 12:54:25 pm »

in the case of the 'Halts' train in the evening that means that (for the last two days at least) the 07:00 OXF» (Oxford - next trains)-PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains) has been a 2-car Class 165 (hellishly overcrowded)

Hey II, is this temporary arrangement or permanent with the new timetable? Although I am pleased we have the 165/166's back in the morning (yay!), being a 2-car is a nightmare (boo!) Cheesy
Logged
IndustryInsider
Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9561


View Profile
« Reply #182 on: December 11, 2012, 07:20:00 pm »

Temporary.  It remains a Class 180 diagram in principle!
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
IanL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 347


View Profile
« Reply #183 on: December 11, 2012, 08:25:56 pm »

Tonights evening halts train was a 165, 10min late to arrive (from Didcot?) and very overcrowded. CIS (Customer Information System) on board still though it was the Malvern to Didcot train though.
Logged
Southern Stag
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 984


View Profile
« Reply #184 on: December 11, 2012, 08:53:16 pm »

There has been an alteration to the diagrams at Oxford at that time. 2Y94, 1522 Great Malvern-Didcot Parkway forms 2E95, 1715 Didcot Parkway-Great Malvern. 1D43, 1450 London Paddington-Oxford after a layover in Oxford Carriage Sidings now forms 2P74, 1706 Oxford-London Paddington. The services have effectively swapped round with inbound services now forming different outbound services, but all are still booked 180s. The diagram for the 1706 Oxford-London Paddington is now one which has been a 180 much more reliably so far.

Spot on with the diagram changes, though I'll disagree with the 17:06ex Oxford reliably being a Class 180 - can't remember the last time it was, and the 'Halts' diagram has been a Turbo quite often recently.  Perhaps things will change over the coming weeks, but the two diagrams you mentioned are the two that are regularly Turbo operated, in the case of the 'Halts' train in the evening that means that (for the last two days at least) the 07:00 OXF» (Oxford - next trains)-PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains) has been a 2-car Class 165 (hellishly overcrowded) and the 12:21 PAD-GMV is formed by the same set (badly overcrowded as far as Oxford).  The 'Halts' train just about copes as a 2-car as it has done for years as it's only full to bursting as far as Hanborough, though the back working (19:44 GMV-PAD) gets pretty full after Oxford.
I meant that it should now be a 180 more reliably. The service most often previously formed of a Turbo was the 1221 out of London, which used to form the 1706. It now forms the Halts train instead, with the 1706 formed off the set which work the 0921 and 1450 out of London. Perhaps they will swap now though with the 1221 becoming a 180 more reliably than the 0921 and 1450.
Logged
IndustryInsider
Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9561


View Profile
« Reply #185 on: December 12, 2012, 11:36:17 am »

I meant that it should now be a 180 more reliably. The service most often previously formed of a Turbo was the 1221 out of London, which used to form the 1706. It now forms the Halts train instead, with the 1706 formed off the set which work the 0921 and 1450 out of London. Perhaps they will swap now though with the 1221 becoming a 180 more reliably than the 0921 and 1450.

Ah, right, sorry, I see what you mean.  We'll have to wait and see on that one then - for the third day in a row there have only been two 180 diagrams covered, so it remains to be seen which of the other two diagrams remains the priority to cover first!  I'd take a guess that it'll be one that does the 07:21 OXF» (Oxford - next trains)-PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains), 12:21 PAD-GMV, 15:22 GMV-DID» (Didcot Parkway - next trains), 17:15 DID-GMV, and 19:44 GMV-PAD as running a 2-Car Turbo on that diagram is totally unacceptable.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
mjones
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 408


View Profile
« Reply #186 on: December 12, 2012, 12:31:53 pm »

Is there any prospect of this situation improving? As far as I can tell the availability of the 180s has been dire ever since their return. How long can FGW (First Great Western) carry on like this? Apart from anything else, it must be a nightmare for planning, causing problems elsewhere on their network.
Logged
Southern Stag
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 984


View Profile
« Reply #187 on: December 12, 2012, 02:30:02 pm »

Ah, right, sorry, I see what you mean.  We'll have to wait and see on that one then - for the third day in a row there have only been two 180 diagrams covered, so it remains to be seen which of the other two diagrams remains the priority to cover first!  I'd take a guess that it'll be one that does the 07:21 OXF» (Oxford - next trains)-PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains), 12:21 PAD-GMV, 15:22 GMV-DID» (Didcot Parkway - next trains), 17:15 DID-GMV, and 19:44 GMV-PAD as running a 2-Car Turbo on that diagram is totally unacceptable.
Indeed, and it's a 2-car 165 again today. But if the problem resourcing that diagram is crew related rather than due to faults with the 180s perhaps it will have to remain a 2-car for now.
Logged
IndustryInsider
Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9561


View Profile
« Reply #188 on: December 12, 2012, 02:43:55 pm »

Yes, I'm not sure how much of this is due to the training backlog (mostly drivers as the TM(resolve)'s are in a much better state), and how much is due to the 180s themselves.  I'll do some digging!
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Andy W
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 267



View Profile Email
« Reply #189 on: December 14, 2012, 08:27:02 am »

Yes, I'm not sure how much of this is due to the training backlog (mostly drivers as the TM(resolve)'s are in a much better state), and how much is due to the 180s themselves.  I'll do some digging!

Hi II how many drivers would need to be trained? I would have thought First would have had ample time to get the training completed.

At what time do they give up and recognise that the 180s are simply not fit for purpose?
Logged
mjones
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 408


View Profile
« Reply #190 on: December 14, 2012, 01:27:58 pm »

Three parked at Old Oak Common around 9ish this morning. I wonder if any of them will make it out today?
Logged
IndustryInsider
Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9561


View Profile
« Reply #191 on: December 15, 2012, 01:52:28 am »

Hi II how many drivers would need to be trained? I would have thought First would have had ample time to get the training completed.

In terms of numbers, there are roughly 100 drivers who should drive the 180s (as well as their other routes/traction) which are all covered from either Oxford or Paddington LTV (London [and] Thames Valley) depots.  About 25% of those are only required to drive them between Oxford and London, with the rest signing to either Worcester or Malvern as well.  I reckon roughly 75% of those have been trained, but not all who have been trained know all the routes they should and/or have other traction knowledge outstanding.   The Train Manager situation is much better with most if not all those who cover the work from Paddington, Reading and Worcester depots being passed out on them.

They would have had ample time to get the training completed had the training programme not been cobbled together on the back of an envelope and organised incredibly badly!  Added to that a general backlog of training (new drivers being passed out but not signing all their required routes for example), a general shortage of drivers anyway, and the huge burden of other additional training requirements unique to this year - such as GSM-R (Global System for Mobile communications - Railway.) training where every driver has had to be released for at least one day, some for a second day as there was more than six months between their original course and using the equipment in anger! 

All of a sudden we find ourselves in the position where we can barely cover the trains with drivers because not all drivers can cover their own work because of a lack of training, but can't release drivers for training because otherwise the trains wouldn't get covered and they'd be mass cancellations.  Vicious circle.  Can't see it improving much before next Easter as after Christmas there will need to be more training for everyone on the new Reading layout as well as preparations for the diversionary routes for the Easter blockade.  Thank goodness a little thing called Rest Day Working is allowed as we'd be in meltdown otherwise!  Rant over.   Lips sealed
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Andrew1939 from West Oxon
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 535


View Profile Email
« Reply #192 on: December 15, 2012, 04:22:58 pm »

Quite frankly I cannot see that any TOC (Train Operating Company) with a franchise expiring in a little over 3 months time and with a temporery extension for the next year or two whilst franchise tendering arrangements are being sorted out by DafT, investing any more than it can get away with. Training staff means that there must be adequate staff remaining to take over duties while staff are actually being trained and this costs plenty of money. It is more likely that unfilled posts due to staff turnover are left unfilled to save costs as much as they can be, so that shareholders' rewards can be maximised.
Logged
ellendune
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4248


View Profile
« Reply #193 on: December 15, 2012, 04:49:12 pm »

Quite frankly I cannot see that any TOC (Train Operating Company) with a franchise expiring in a little over 3 months time and with a temporery extension for the next year or two whilst franchise tendering arrangements are being sorted out by DafT, investing any more than it can get away with. Training staff means that there must be adequate staff remaining to take over duties while staff are actually being trained and this costs plenty of money. It is more likely that unfilled posts due to staff turnover are left unfilled to save costs as much as they can be, so that shareholders' rewards can be maximised.

Cynical, but partly true I suspect. Yes they have absolutely no incentive to invest in the long or even medium term, but they will not want their day to day performance to drop too much or that might impact on their winning the next franchise.

Logged
Chris from Nailsea
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 17845


I am not railway staff


View Profile Email
« Reply #194 on: December 16, 2012, 05:22:31 am »

On the other hand, we have seen no credible evidence to date to suggest that any particular Train Operating Company's past performance (good or bad) has had any impact on their acceptability in any new tender for any new franchise. Roll Eyes
Logged

William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14 15 ... 27
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page