Class 180s return to the Cotswolds

[whole diary]

[Southern Stag]

If the 15:51 wasn't a 180 it would probably have to be a Turbo on Fridays this summer to provide the extra HST^▸ (High Speed Train) for the additional service to Exeter.

[Worcester_Passenger]

My own experience is that the 15:51 carries a heavier load during the summer holidays on account of Cheap Day ticket availability.

Of course, the problem about there being too many passengers can be easily solved using the Virgin solution - by extending the peak period so that Cheap Day tickets are no longer valid.

[Btline]

Or use the Chiltern solution and run more trains!

And before anyone moans about Evergreen 3 / Mainline or about not enough stock/paths, Chiltern have done this with their small fleet and two track railway for years:

Pre-Mainline: 1800 running non stop to Banbury, and the 1803 covering the "axed" stops that would normally be on the xx00.
Now the situation is even better, with 1807 non stop to Warwick Parkway, 1810 non stop to Banbury then stopping to Brum, and 1813 covering "axed" stops to Banbury.

Works wonders.

[Louis94]

Or use the Chiltern solution and run more trains!

With what carriages? Or are we planning to use Chilterns solution, and just decrease the number of carriages on current services to run additional services with the non-existant paths available?

[Southern Stag]

Doing the equivalent of Chiltern would be removing some of the London-Reading stopping services and using the Turbos freed up to run fast services to Worcester. Chiltern Mainline is all good and well if you live in Birmingham or Warwick but it doesn't seem to be popular with those fleeced commuters from Beaconsfield and the like.

[Btline]

Or use the Chiltern solution and run more trains!

With what carriages? Or are we planning to use Chilterns solution, and just decrease the number of carriages on current services to run additional services with the non-existant paths available?

Doing the equivalent of Chiltern would be removing some of the London-Reading stopping services and using the Turbos freed up to run fast services to Worcester. Chiltern Mainline is all good and well if you live in Birmingham or Warwick but it doesn't seem to be popular with those fleeced commuters from Beaconsfield and the like.

Have you not read my post? Even BEFORE the new timetable, Chiltern ran a relief to allow fewer stops. 1800 non stop to Banbury, 1803 to cover removed stops. This was before the 172s or the loco hauled stock.

Or the Virgin way. Despite their VHF timetable adding loads of extra services with the existing stock, Virgin run a relief in the morning peak to enable Brum Int and Coventry stops to be removed from the 0730 service.

In FGW^▸ (First Great Western) land it would be the equivalent of cutting places like Reading & Didcot, and then running a extra behind covering those calls, which could be first stop Maidenhead/Slough.

[Louis94]

Have you not read my post? Even BEFORE the new timetable, Chiltern ran a relief to allow fewer stops. 1800 non stop to Banbury, 1803 to cover removed stops. This was before the 172s or the loco hauled stock.

Or the Virgin way. Despite their VHF timetable adding loads of extra services with the existing stock, Virgin run a relief in the morning peak to enable Brum Int and Coventry stops to be removed from the 0730 service.

In FGW^▸ (First Great Western) land it would be the equivalent of cutting places like Reading & Didcot, and then running a extra behind covering those calls, which could be first stop Maidenhead/Slough.

You used a quite poor example to start with, the lines out of Paddington are far from anything like the lines out of Marylebone in terms of number of trains and also destinations.

Although cutting Reading and Didcot stops on services would be nice, there just isnt the stock - the only way it would be possible is if FGW decided to convert a service from 5 cars to 3 cars and cut a few stops, and then use the spare 2 cars to run an additional service which would take on the cut stops. With the already few paths out of Paddington, this is a huge waste of paths, and also means an extra driver would be required - meaning a higher cost of running 2 seperate services. This extra path used, could be used to run to a different destination entirely, so these extra services could result in the cutting of a service to say Henley-on-Thames or Bourne End.

Something I don't think commuters will be very happy with - especially if it means an increase in fares.

[Btline]

Well maybe, but it's worked for years on Chiltern, on a two track line, with a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) with much less stock.

[Louis94]

Well maybe, but it's worked for years on Chiltern, on a two track line, with a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) with much less stock.

Much Less?! I make it that Chiltern has more Turbo style carriages than FGW^▸ (First Great Western).

Chiltern
39 165/0 (28 x2, 11 x3)
19 168 (9 x3, 10 x4)
Total 58 trains, 156 carriages

First GW^▸ (Great Western)
36 165/1 (16 x3, 20 x2)
21 166 (21 x3)
Total 57 trains, 151 carriages

[Btline]

Yes, but we're not talking solely about Turbo services are we? Nor are we about local stopping services, so the above is irrelevant.

[Louis94]

Yes, but we're not talking solely about Turbo services are we? Nor are we about local stopping services, so the above is irrelevant.

I thought we were, given you can't really relate any of the faster HST^▸ (High Speed Train) or 180 services to Chiltern.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Although cutting Reading and Didcot stops on services would be nice

No, it wouldn't. Not Reading, at any rate. Reading is a huge centre of employment these days, and plenty of those employees live in the Cotswolds. One of the best things that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) has done to the Cotswold Line service is add Reading stops to the peak-time trains.

In Thames Trains days, the only peak service to stop at Reading was the 17.50 (17.18 from Paddington) - a slow (7-minute wait at Didcot), overcrowded Turbo. Commuting between Reading and Charlbury was no fun at all - believe me, I did it for five years. Now, the 17.22/18.22 from Paddington are both available to the many people who work in Reading. Sure, it would be nice if they were pick-up only at Reading... but then again I'd like free beer on the train as well.

[Btline]

Yes, but we're not talking solely about Turbo services are we? Nor are we about local stopping services, so the above is irrelevant.

I thought we were, given you can't really relate any of the faster HST^▸ (High Speed Train) or 180 services to Chiltern.

No, we're talking about Chiltern's fast services to Brum, which - even in the days of 168 operation - bear no resemblance to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) thames turbo services out to Reading.

I agree that cutting Reading stops on peak trains is not good (unless there is a relief to mop up the commuters). I expect that they'll be a few peak services to Bristol in the future without Reading as the service becomes so much more frequent.

[IndustryInsider]

Apparently the 05:48 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-WOF and 08:26 WOF-PAD will be an Adelante from Monday -
that's the first part of the diagram that's already in place, so not a new diagram as such.  It's also the train which will really have its capacity truly tested as we've discussed.

Also, worryingly, next Friday the 15:51 PAD-WOF and return is booked for a 180.  I did hear that might be the case a few weeks back but dismissed it because we were promised no HST^▸ (High Speed Train) diagrams would be taken over by 180s.  I certainly hope this is not going to set a precedent!

That is how it's panned out.  180108 has been covering the usual diagram all week, with a varying degree of success.  180103 is booked on the 15:51 PAD-WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) and return today.  I suppose we should celebrate the first day when two units have been out and about in revenue earning service, but I doubt many passengers on the 15:51 will be! 

[Southern Stag]

180108 does seem to have had its fair share of technical problems this week. So has the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) fleet though, the 1750 from London has been a Turbo at least twice this week.