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Author Topic: Class 180s return to the Cotswolds  (Read 188868 times)
johoare
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« Reply #150 on: September 30, 2012, 09:25:44 pm »

Alas, not a good weekend. I carefully organise to travel earlier on Sunday so as to catch the 12:42 - but the HST (High Speed Train) that's in the timetable is actually a Turbo. Nothing listed on 'journeycheck', so I assume that's what's supposed to happen. Correct?

Meanwhile, only two out of the six doors appear to be working.

Might be worth contacting FGW (First Great Western) re Journeycheck.. The same thing happened to me the other day travelling to work.. I always check JourneyCheck before I leave home believing it would alway tell me this sort of thing and it didn't on that occasion...
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Worcester_Passenger
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« Reply #151 on: October 01, 2012, 05:30:55 am »

Might be worth contacting FGW (First Great Western) re Journeycheck.. The same thing happened to me the other day travelling to work.. I always check JourneyCheck before I leave home believing it would alway tell me this sort of thing and it didn't on that occasion...
Will do. I'd seen your post about either the trains or JourneyCheck should be working.

The replacement still hadn't appeared on Journeycheck by the time I got off in Worcester 2 1/2 hours later.

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stebbo
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« Reply #152 on: October 01, 2012, 05:50:56 pm »

Travelled on one for the first time in a couple of years last week. Seemed a bit shabby to me; the toilet was a mess, the boarded up buffet looked all forlorn like an out of season seaside kiosk.
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IanL
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« Reply #153 on: October 01, 2012, 10:23:36 pm »

Also, every time I manage to ride on one of the 180's the automatic announcements are out of phase with the actual stops.
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #154 on: November 20, 2012, 10:59:35 am »

Availability has dipped again with only two out and about yesterday and just the one at the moment today.  The 09:20 PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-WOF and return is going to be very snug as a 2-car Turbo!
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« Reply #155 on: November 28, 2012, 01:21:10 pm »

Going for a new record this week.  Two sets out on Monday, one yesterday and none so far today!  That could be a deliberate plan based on maximising Train Manager availability (Turbos run DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) between Oxford and Paddington), or it could be that they are all just knackered!
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ray951
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« Reply #156 on: November 28, 2012, 02:52:23 pm »

Going for a new record this week.  Two sets out on Monday, one yesterday and none so far today!  That could be a deliberate plan based on maximising Train Manager availability (Turbos run DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) between Oxford and Paddington), or it could be that they are all just knackered!
And one of those running on Monday had a problem according to the train manager when I got on it due to it running late, and this was the 06:48 from Paddington to Great Malvern.

And I should add that the service I usually catch home from work is diagrammed for a 180 but over the last couple of months I think I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times that has happened. They have not exactly been a success:-)
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 03:01:45 pm by ray951 » Logged
Andrew1939 from West Oxon
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« Reply #157 on: November 28, 2012, 07:07:19 pm »

Quite agree that today no Adelantes have been seen today on the CL. They seem to a pretty disastrous re-introduction.
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stebbo
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« Reply #158 on: November 28, 2012, 07:51:34 pm »

What exactly is the problem with the Adelantes as they seem never to have performed. Is it the mechanical drive system as, though I'm not an engineer, the Voyagers seem to be better with electric transmission? Or is it bad maintenance? Either way, not showing FGW (First Great Western) in the best light.

That said I prefer the interior of the Adelantes - if done up properly with buffet section open - to a Voyager.
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JayMac
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« Reply #159 on: November 29, 2012, 12:45:33 am »

I think it is just a jinx on them in operation on the FGW (First Great Western) network.

After a few early teething troubles, Hull Trains and Grand Central seemed to have got a handle on them. But perhaps because they are both small operators we don't get to hear of their problems with the 180s.

Ultimately I think it boils down to them being a small fleet and somewhat of an afterthought to the Class 175 fleet. Originally the Class 175s were to be 2 and 3 car 100mph units and 3 car 125mph units (First North Western had plans on reaching Euston). There was some contractual jiggery pokery between Government, First Group and Alstom (First North Western had ordered the original Class 175s) that saw the 175 order changed to just 100mph 2/3 car units for FNW and a separate class of 125mph 5 car units, the 180s, for FGW. There was also some concern about the crashworthiness of the proposed 3 car 125mph Class 175s. These would have had very little space between the cab front and passenger saloons.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 02:35:11 am by bignosemac » Logged

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« Reply #160 on: November 29, 2012, 09:05:48 am »

Ultimately I think it boils down to them being a small fleet and somewhat of an afterthought to the Class 175 fleet. Originally the Class 175s were to be 2 and 3 car 100mph units and 3 car 125mph units (First North Western had plans on reaching Euston).

Originally Great Western Holdings, which was majority-owned by a bunch of railway managers (and only 25% or so by First), won the Regional Railways North West franchise and promised new services to London - from Manchester Airport, Rochdale and Blackpool, I think. They did actually start these services (as North Western Trains), running with 158s and 322s, but if I remember rightly the pathing via Northampton was pretty terrible and they never really took off.

Great Western Holdings' original bid for Great Western had envisaged splitting HSTs (High Speed Train) into 1+4 trains to provide shorter but more frequent services. (Virgin obviously did something similar with CrossCountry, replacing hourly 8-coach services with half-hourly Voyagers, and the Sprinterisation of Regional Railways had been along the same lines.) But the idea was eventually dropped - several reasons have been cited, partly wasting train paths, partly practical considerations, and partly that passenger growth was above what a four-coach train could accommodate. So the 180s were ordered instead, as you say, as part of the NWT order.

The 175s never actually got to Euston: the service had been dropped by then. I don't recall the details of how the GWT/NWT order chopped and changed into what we have now, but there's some interesting recollections - including some artists' impressions! - in this WNXX (Stored Unserviceable, Mainline Locos HQ All Classes) thread.
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #161 on: November 29, 2012, 11:14:41 am »

One diagram covered today.  One of the problems with supposedly having them is that when they're not available inner-LTV (London [and] Thames Valley) commuter services then go short-formed as Turbos have to be provided instead, and not only that, but the Turbos that are provided are often Class 165s (sometimes only a 2-car), which on Cotswold Line workings is a huge step down in comfort - especially in first class where you don't even get a table!  You won't find many people happy to pay the ^130 for a 1st Class open return from Moreton-In-Marsh to Paddington if they think it might be a Class 165, but if it's a Class 180 (or HST (High Speed Train)) it is a much more reasonable fare - to those who aren't short of a few quid!.

I hope this is a temporary shortage - up until a couple of weeks ago often all four diagrams were covered (or at least three of them).
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To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Western Enterprise
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« Reply #162 on: November 29, 2012, 02:58:48 pm »

What exactly is the problem with the Adelantes as they seem never to have performed. Is it the mechanical drive system as, though I'm not an engineer, the Voyagers seem to be better with electric transmission?

Hydraulic transmission has always been cursed on the Western, ever since they overengineered the original Warships, back in 57/58.
Other Hydraulic's were designed like Lotus cars of the day, lightweight with good power to weight ratio, but usually turned out to be Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious!

Seriously though, there does seem to be appalling availability on the 180's recently. They seem to have disappeared from the 8.34 from Maidenhead to Pad. Is this a result of cutbacks in servicing/maintenance with First's potential future difficulties, I don't know? Luckily I'm only an commuter.....
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #163 on: November 29, 2012, 03:13:24 pm »

I should imagine the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) will start to ask questions shortly - presumably there was some kind of agreement on service levels following their lease from East Coast?
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To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
CLPGMS
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« Reply #164 on: November 29, 2012, 06:00:35 pm »

The Cotswold Line appears to have been almost completely re-turbo-ised in the last few days.  Today, even the 1022 Paddington to Hereford and its 1514 return was formed by a 3-car Turbo instead of a HST (High Speed Train).  Also, for several days now, the 1551 from Paddington to Worcester Shrub Hill has been a 3-car Turbo which started its journey at Oxford instead of a HST from London, as has the 1750 from Paddington to Worcester.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 07:18:52 pm by CLPGMS » Logged
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