Class 180s return to the Cotswolds

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

Also, I notice that the evening halts train has performed much better this week.  A little too early to tell for sure, but starting it at Didcot has helped it get off of Oxford on time most days.  Also, several minutes have been added to the running time - as a Class 180 it always seemed to lose about 5+ minutes en-route from Oxford to Evesham where it stood for 9 minutes, well that dwell time has been swallowed up by progressive extra minutes added at the intermediate stops.

[Network SouthEast]

Let me add a curved ball here on the subject of nationalisation or not.

The class 180s have not been a success I think it's fair to say. The Voyagers (Virgin/Cross Country) have I think been relatively successful (though not entirely my cup of tea as a traveller). The two types of train are designed roughly to cover similar diagrams yet they are very different, not least in terms of their drive - one being mechanical, the other diesel electric.

So with franchising etc we end up with two types of train designed for similar operations and with different end results in terms of quality of operation - and presumably more expensive to produce as a larger order for one type ought to cost less.

So now I've lit a potential fuse, I'll retreat and cover my ears.

That said, you make a very fair point: in the south east for example mark I third rail stock was replaced with a mixture of Bombardier and Siemens units: the Electrostar and Desiro families have both been very successful, but there is no interoperability (i.e. you can't couple one up to the other) with a consequent loss of operating flexibility.

I have to disagree with both of the above posts. BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) were just as bad for interoperability. The Networker Turbos were not compatible with the Sprinter fleets. The Networker electric were incompatible with 319/321s which were incompatible with the slam-door/442/455/456 fleet and so on.

[CLPGMS]

Although the 1715 DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains)-GMV left Oxford on time this evening, it was still 4 minutes late at Ascott-u-Wychwood.  This is despite 5 minutes being added to its timings between the two stations.  In the process, it delayed the UP "Cathedrals Express" steam train at Charlbury by about 5 minutes.

[BerkshireBugsy]

When I pass through Reading at about 615 am on a weekday there are normally a couple of services which are scheduled to be based on 180 diagrams. I think they are the 619 to Oxford and the 622 to Worcester Forest Gate

From memory this week so far the 180s have been there for the above services. It's not that I have been looking out for them, but you can't miss hearing them !

[stebbo]

Fair enough but the doesn't the general point hold?

I've long thought that it ought to be possible to design three or four standard classes of train/locomotive which could be adapted for overhead electrification/third rail/diesel.

Of course the new electric/diesel job destined for the Great Western merely highlights the need to get on with overhead electrification. As I've said in other posts (and I think others have) why spend large amounts of juice lugging some underfloor diesel units around? Madness to my mind, but then politicians (of all colours) and civil servants.......

[IndustryInsider]

Just an update on Class 180 availability.  I'm told that part of the reason for the poor availability throughout early December was that the fleet needed fitting with GSM-R^▸ (Global System for Mobile communications - Railway.) radio equipment before the NRN^▸ (National Radio Network) gets switched off at the end of the year.  There have not been any out in the last few days due to the other service disruption and the need to keep as many Train Manager's available as possible, so running a Turbo DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) between Oxford and London instead of a Class 180 gives you spare staff to play with. 

Does seem like any excuse to pull them out of service though, and it doesn't help the poor sods who are expecting to have a nice reserved seat awaiting them and instead have to fight it out for space on a Turbo.  This is the reservation list for one train, the 09:21 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-WOF this morning:

[paulo999]

Travelling on this line for over ten years now, on occasional weekends and days either side of Christmas.

I think it's three years or so since I've seen anything other than turbos.

The last was an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) where the buffet was partially accomodated in a converted toilet.

Today's seat reservation was the fiction I expected. Another turbo. People standing all the way to Moreton. My morning tube journey is better.

I'm assuming the seat reservation I have for the 27th will, at the appointed hour, vanish cinderella-like into the all too familiar no-arms train.

Is there anything (meaningful) passengers can do in response to this, or can a toc just downgrade with impunity?

[grahame]

Travelling on this line for over ten years now, on occasional weekends and days either side of Christmas.

I think it's three years or so since I've seen anything other than turbos.

The last was an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) where the buffet was partially accomodated in a converted toilet.

Today's seat reservation was the fiction I expected. Another turbo. People standing all the way to Moreton. My morning tube journey is better.

I'm assuming the seat reservation I have for the 27th will, at the appointed hour, vanish cinderella-like into the all too familiar no-arms train.

Is there anything (meaningful) passengers can do in response to this, or can a toc just downgrade with impunity?

Welcome to the forum , Paulo.

The system always runs close to limit of the service that can be provided with stock / crews / infrastructure - that's the effect of the franchising system. And that leaves little or nothing (or negative resources!) for times when there are unusual passenger flows, or operating incidents such as we had last week out from Paddington, and have ongoing at 8 or 9 locations where the lines are blocked by floods.  I suspect that there are too many HSTs down in Laira (Plymouth), effectively blocked there, and that's meant that your Cotswold service was "Turbo"ed ...

There's a decision that's been made (or to be made) as to how much slack you have in the system to cope with things - would you want higher fares and / or less frequent trains to make them more reliable?  At the same time, I'm conscious that the experts talk about "once in 100 years events", and I wonder if some of those calculations might need revision due to the changing climate;   there's been an awful lot of those long-odds events in the past month!

What can we / you do?  Well - you've started by expressing your frustration and reminding everyone on this public forum - which is quite widely read - of the frustrations caused to passengers at times - too frequent times.  It takes a lot of effort to take things further, but it can be done and has been done.  I've learned to work with the railway folks (and local government and central too), to make suggestions that are in everyone's interest and - slowly - little things that become big things can happen.

[grahame]

I'm assuming the seat reservation I have for the 27th will, at the appointed hour, vanish cinderella-like into the all too familiar no-arms train.

Is there anything (meaningful) passengers can do in response to this, or can a toc just downgrade with impunity?

P.S. You can help your concerns be noticed by reporting back on your journey on 27th ... have a good Christmas, and we look forward to hearing from you later in the week

P.P.S. That does not stop you responding even on Christmas day.   The forum is here, running, available 24 x 7 ... typically we get around a dozen posts even on 25th December.

[Chris from Nailsea]

From First Great Western JourneyCheck:

Line problem: at Moreton-In-Marsh.

Owing to flooding at Moreton-In-Marsh all lines are affected.

Train services running through this station may be delayed at short notice. An estimate for the resumption of normal services will be provided as soon as the problem has been fully assessed.

Message Received: 24/12/2012 17:50

 

[paulo999]

Travelling on this line for over ten years now, on occasional weekends and days either side of Christmas.

I think it's three years or so since I've seen anything other than turbos.

The last was an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) where the buffet was partially accomodated in a converted toilet.

Today's seat reservation was the fiction I expected. Another turbo. People standing all the way to Moreton. My morning tube journey is better.

I'm assuming the seat reservation I have for the 27th will, at the appointed hour, vanish cinderella-like into the all too familiar no-arms train.

Is there anything (meaningful) passengers can do in response to this, or can a toc just downgrade with impunity?

Welcome to the forum , Paulo.

The system always runs close to limit of the service that can be provided with stock / crews / infrastructure - that's the effect of the franchising system. And that leaves little or nothing (or negative resources!) for times when there are unusual passenger flows, or operating incidents such as we had last week out from Paddington, and have ongoing at 8 or 9 locations where the lines are blocked by floods.  I suspect that there are too many HSTs down in Laira (Plymouth), effectively blocked there, and that's meant that your Cotswold service was "Turbo"ed ...

There's a decision that's been made (or to be made) as to how much slack you have in the system to cope with things - would you want higher fares and / or less frequent trains to make them more reliable?  At the same time, I'm conscious that the experts talk about "once in 100 years events", and I wonder if some of those calculations might need revision due to the changing climate;   there's been an awful lot of those long-odds events in the past month!

What can we / you do?  Well - you've started by expressing your frustration and reminding everyone on this public forum - which is quite widely read - of the frustrations caused to passengers at times - too frequent times.  It takes a lot of effort to take things further, but it can be done and has been done.  I've learned to work with the railway folks (and local government and central too), to make suggestions that are in everyone's interest and - slowly - little things that become big things can happen.

Thanks for your patient reply Grahame.

My first post perhaps seemed like I'd come here only to sound off, but I've been reading here for a few years now. I think it was here I found out the behind the scenes story of the 'toilet-buffets'.

In the case of the turboed train today, I'm assuming it was a missing Adelente rather than HST, looking at what was advertised for the 14:21 (never an HST normally? but advertised with seat bookings?). Maybe the Adelente I spotted in the yard was one of the ones waiting a radio upgrade.

Is there any value in emailing FGW^▸ (First Great Western)? Does anything get logged as part of the franchise record? Or, alternatively, do they have to provide some kind of partial refund?

Or does FGW have no franchise obligation to run anything more than suburban-configuration trains on it's long distance routes?

(sorry, I'm really not aiming this at you. Right now I get the feeling I might find out more sense/truth here than by phoning FGW).

[Southern Stag]

The 14:21 is indeed booked for a 180, which do provide seat reservations. The reason it was a Turbo today was mentioned above. If a Turbo is used there is no need to provide a guard between London and Oxford, whereas if a 180 or HST^▸ (High Speed Train) is used a guard is required for that section of the journey. When there is major disruption as there has been the last couple of days using Turbos means guards which would otherwise be used between London and Oxford can work other services, minimising the disruption to others. The Cotswold line has a less comfortable journey, but at least it has a service, if a 180 was used there is more chance the service would be cancelled because of a lack of staff.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Is there any value in emailing FGW^▸ (First Great Western)? Does anything get logged as part of the franchise record? Or, alternatively, do they have to provide some kind of partial refund?

Or does FGW have no franchise obligation to run anything more than suburban-configuration trains on it's long distance routes?

(sorry, I'm really not aiming this at you. Right now I get the feeling I might find out more sense/truth here than by phoning FGW).

Firstly, my own 'welcome to the forum', paulo999.

Yes, I think it is worth e-mailing (or indeed posting) a comment to First Great Western: such responses from their customers do get logged, and are considered - even if they are unable to do much about such issues immediately, First Great Western do care, and they can use such feedback in their negotiations for improved resources with the Department for Transport.

Personally, I have reservations about the value of telephoning: you will be answered in a call centre, and your comments will not necessarily be recorded as accurately as you would wish.  That is all I will say on the subject. 

In your e-mail / postal comment, you should of course ask for a refund: the worst they can do is say, 'no' - but you may get an appropriate seasonal gesture from First Great Western, if your request is reasoned and reasonable! 

[grahame]

(sorry, I'm really not aiming this at you. Right now I get the feeling I might find out more sense/truth here than by phoning FGW^▸ (First Great Western)).

I'm not feeling aimed at in the slightest ... I am a passenger (or wannabe passenger) who's business was severely influenced when the train service to our local station was to be cut back to just 2 trains each way per day and I asked the question "for a town of 25,000, is a two train service appropriate?".   And the initial answer was "you're too late to ask".   But that's a long story for me to point you at another day, and we're optimistic for the next franchise period.

It turns out, though, that the poacher and the gamekeeper are far more on the same side than you would imagine, and with a case made with appropriate data and local input, the case under which more / better timed services, better information, sanitised fares which get rid of absurdities, more people will ride the train.   We're talking with the bidders for the future service on our particular line (all of them).   This time they have the best researched case in the South West, not an unresearched one to make the best decision.    Based not on 0.8% annual growth but a more realistic figure that reflects the 80% growth in passenger train journey in West Wilts in 10 years.

Anyways ... I didn't intent to get going "long" on this ... better go and move the fireguard so that Santa can get down the chimney  

[Chris from Nailsea]

Erm ... grahame: hobby horse.