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Author Topic: M4 closed in London due to CRACKS on viaduct!  (Read 24223 times)
JayMac
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« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2012, 11:29:25 »

As far as I can see the publicising that FGW (First Great Western) did whilst the Hammersmith Flyover was closed only amounted to details on their website and a press release that was only picked up by one travel news website (Breaking Travel News) and one local paper (Maidenhead Advertiser). This wasn't really much use in attracting additional custom as it was after the fact.

The evidence that the closure of the Hammersmith Flyover contributed to increased loadings is anecdotal at best. There are no statistics. Just FGW saying they were a bit busier than the same time in the previous year. FGW didn't need to strengthen any services at that time as it was during the quieter period between Christmas and New Year. They just had healthier loadings that they were able to cope with using existing stock and diagrams.

The week ahead is still a busy commuting week and the schools have yet to break up for the summer. Little room to 'hang an extra set on to a Turbo'. That extra set has to come from another service and doing that for just a few days would, to my mind, be a little pointless. The logistics and cost/benefit of doing so are also a factor.  Yes, you may pick up a few extra people at Theale if FGW advertise widely, but you risk alienating a larger customer base when they see their normal service reduced to provide the extra unit elsewhere.

There's nothing wrong with FGW advertising their services in an attempt to attract people out of their cars, I'm all for that, but I don't think it is right that they should be inconveniencing their regular customers to provide additional capacity on one part of the network for just a few days.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 13:36:55 by bignosemac » Logged

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ChrisB
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« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2012, 11:48:59 »

This is meant ti be completed by Thursday. The Hammersmith flyover went on for longer....it would take at least two days to reallocate stock & issue instructions, si that's 3 days max. For that period, I think the rubbishing of this idea stands up frankly.

Also agree with the other points msde here. Just not worth thinking about.
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Btline
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« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2012, 15:12:03 »

Well I disagree about rubbishing an idea in such a way.

Thankfully I'm no longer put off by such posts, but it must be so off-putting for newbies especially when threads are hijacked due to people being pedantic, looking to score points. It creates a bad atmosphere for all and it's pretty poor show, IMO (in my opinion).

The idea that one of the UK (United Kingdom)'s busiest stretches of motorway being closed might just affect loadings on FGW (First Great Western) services is certainly not one that deserves such a response. Anyone travelling to London from the West will have to divert onto the busiest stretch of the M25 and then onto other already bust arteries into the City.

Ok, I accept the arguments that it is probably not worthwhile FGW moving stock around for a few days, but I'm sure a display on the M4 advertising nearby stations would be good to poach custom! Grin
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ChrisB
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« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2012, 15:23:22 »

If you weren't quite so histrionic with your posts, you might just get taken more seriously. I think that's the lesson you & other newbies might gain from this thread
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Btline
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« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2012, 15:29:36 »

If you weren't quite so histrionic with your posts, you might just get taken more seriously.

My original post.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18751083

Let's hope FGW (First Great Western) seize the initiative and put extra carriages on.

I'll continue posting how I like, thank you. Newbies should not be scared off posting in case they are leapt on straight away, either ridiculed or sneerely corrected over some minuscule detail!
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Gordon the Blue Engine
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« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2012, 15:38:01 »

Indeed. It is depressing that a reasonable post is rubbished, and I agree with BTline that it is unfortunate that some newbies appear to have been put off by "oldies" hostile responses to their posts.  

Just to clarify a couple of points....:

1. ChrisB, it doesn't take 3 days change the plan.  FGW (First Great Western) have "real-time" controllers at Swindon to deal with current issues eg train failures, staff sickness, out of course running etc.

2. BNM, you have selectively quoted me to misrepresent what I said, and omitted my words immediately following "hang an extra set on to a Turbo" which were ("if any are available, no short platforms etc)".  I would have thought as a global moderator you would be trying to raise the level of the discussion, not the reverse.  
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 15:55:39 by Gordon the Blue Engine » Logged
Gordon the Blue Engine
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« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2012, 18:57:48 »

Grahame, let me be the first to acknowledge that I have read and understood your comments. 

I still think there is an interesting discussion to be had as to whether the M4 J1-J3 closure is a marketing opportunity for FGW (First Great Western).  I wonder what Richard Branson would have done if Virgin ran the service into Padd?

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Andy W
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« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2012, 09:20:32 »


But ... as members become our golden oldies, they should grow somewhat from uninformed posts / unresearched and undocumented ideas, especially where those ideas have been discussed during the time of their active membership.  It can get a bit tired otherwise, and indeed those oldies can discourage others from posting in frustration that they'll so often be "hit"  by said oldies.  We have lost valued members because of that - a matter of great regret.


Firstly, Grahame, I think you have provided an excellent forum here and probably do not get all the thanks and praise you deserve. That goes for your team of administrators as well (BNM is particular gets a 'gold star from me).

As you say there are a variety of contributors and it is really good to hear from all aspects - there is always going to be significantly differing opinions.

I share almost all of Btlines concerns - we both come from the same area and I prefer to drive from Pershore to Warwick Parkway and use Chiltern rather than endure FGW (First Great Western).

That doesn't mean I wouldn't rather use FGW, I just don't see them as a customer focused service organisation.

I appreciate Btline does rather over state his case however if you strip away the hyperbole the point he is making is very valid. It seems to me that there is far more comment on the over statement (and sometime toungue is cheek comment) than the basic point he is raising. Given his (assume he but maybe she?) frequent contributions surely people should accept this and tolerate - and then discuss the salient points. The points he raises are in essence very valid.

In this case the salient point is that the M4, a major road into London, will be closed for some period of time. His point is that this should be an opportunity for the train company that serves ' the M4 corridor' to leverage some advertising and increased custom.

This then descends (due to Btlines reputation) into whether it should be crack or cracks - well the motorway is closed regardless. Surely Btlines point of exploiting this is wholly valid.

Regarding the loss of a certain member - who was undoubtedly a very valid contributor - he and I locked swords on various occaisions regarding the Cotswold line [snip / edit]. It is very regretable that he left but I feel that some of the anti Btline rhetoric is due to this person departing.

Out of interest has anyone sent him (and any others) a 'we miss you and you would be very welcome back' invitation?

At the end of the day sometimes when there are genuine inaccuracies that should obviously be put right - but sometimes the best way to deal with postings is to either ignore or a simple -yeah, yeah, yeah Btline may well get the point across and then get down to the basic issue.

End of rant - and again, Grahame and the team, well done, and excellent forum.

Oh and while I'm at it can I give a special mention to Industry Insider who, in my opinion, is a excellent contributor.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 05:09:34 by grahame » Logged
smokey
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« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2012, 09:42:40 »

If ANY major road is closed in a TOC (Train Operating Company) area (where trains are an alternative) then any seriously well run TOC would make hay whilst the Sun shines
I remember when Thick fog hit for several days Airports closed and East Coast (not sure who had the Keys, Seacontainers or NX) had large Ads in National Papers saying,

" Why do people fly London to Scotland, we haven't the FOGGIST"

It's the job of a TOC to run trains with as many BOS as possible, an advert in the press, that tempts a Motorist from his car when problems hit, may make that Motorist consider the train as a alternative even if they only use trains 2 or 3 tines a year, it's a good gain when a Motorist HASN'T used Trains or Buses for over 30 years!

Indeed some Motorists may well find that the relaxing train or extra work time of the train is enough for them to switch over from Car to Train.

But lack of action by FGW (First Great Western), Just shows to Me that FGW are now winding down ready to hand over to Arriva, NX or Stagecoach. Grin
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grahame
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« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2012, 10:13:52 »

Many of the points raised - on all the various sides of this discussion itself - are valid.  And the various TOC (Train Operating Company) companies are all very different; just how different has been brought home to me recently as our TransWilts team discusses the future shape of TransWilts services with the five companies who hope to be responsible for scheduled passenger trains there in the future.

From a purely personal view, I can't see that putting resources into moving already-stretched trains around for a few days, together with all the negatives that would have where they were "pulled", would have been practical for anyone.  A short and sharp marketing campaign, of the sort that Virgin are renowned for, would have cost far more than it brought in, sort term ... but could long term have been significant how it was noticed and brough some long term converts.  But that's not the "First way" as I understand it and, heck, they can't be getting too much wrong on the marketing said when the trains are already packed, can they?  And they do have a lot more on their plate ...

We've had several members leave us over the years due to the 'crossing of Swords' with other members. And in each and every case, it's made clear to them that they'll be welcome back should they wish to return.  Quietly, this has happened - I can think of several cases.  By the way - it's a quite different matter when, very occasioanally indeed, members leave us following a clash with the forum agreement and AUP, especially where their departure is tinted (or strongly coloured) with malice on their part; in such cases they'll be welcomed back too - but only if the team's sure that they're unlikely to cause the same issues again; sometimes this is an insurmountable hurdle.

Quote
It's the job of a TOC to run trains with as many BOS as possible

It's the job of a TOC to run trains as specified in the service level committment ... even if that means a service that doesn't get as many BOS as possible. And when there aren't enough S-es to take the B-s, it's arguable as to whether it's good to encourage even more standing.
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Gordon the Blue Engine
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« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2012, 10:37:38 »

I did a search on the FGW (First Great Western) website for "M4" , and got this:

Hammersmith Flyover

A4/M4 Hammersmith Flyover has reopened with one lane in either direction for cars, vans and other light traffic. This will continue to be the case for the next four months. Drivers are still advised to avoid the area and it is advised to consider using the train. First Great Western operates four stations within 3.5 miles of the M4, all with car parking facilities and fast times into London Paddington:
 ^Theale Station (Ideally situated off Junction 12 of the M4).  Fastest Journey time during the morning peak is 43 minutes
^Slough Station (1.5 miles from junction 6 of the M4). Fastest Journey time during the morning peak is 19 minutes.
^Reading Station (3.5 miles from Junction 11 of the M4). Fastest Journey time during the morning peak is 29 minutes.
^Taplow Station (2 miles from junction 7 of the M4, via the A4). Fastest Journey time during the morning peak is 35 minutes.

There is also car park capacity at:
 ^Tilehurst
^ Aldermaston
^ Didcot Foxhall
^Oxford
^Chippenham (both car parks)
 
To plan your journey book your tickets here.

Otherwise, keep up to date with our live updates via Twitter or download our free mobile app - available from the App Store on iPhone, Blackberry, Nokia & Android or text* FGW to 86688 and we'll send you the link.


So this time FGW haven't taken the opportunity for free marketing (not a costly campaign) which they thought was worthwile for the Hammersmith Flyover closure.  Why? FGW's website is there as a marketing tool, and they appear to be asleep.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2012, 10:43:52 »

Because the media aren't all over complaining about gridlock on the roads.

If drivers aren't aware, or the media isn't complaining, why would drivers look at FGW (First Great Western)'s website?
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2012, 10:57:10 »

Oh and while I'm at it can I give a special mention to Industry Insider who, in my opinion, is a excellent contributor.

Of course you can, and thanks.   Cheesy
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smokey
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« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2012, 11:04:28 »


Quote
It's the job of a TOC (Train Operating Company) to run trains with as many BOS as possible

It's the job of a TOC to run trains as specified in the service level committment ... even if that means a service that doesn't get as many BOS as possible. And when there aren't enough S-es to take the B-s, it's arguable as to whether it's good to encourage even more standing.

[/quote]

It is the job of a TOC to run the MINIMUM amount of Trains as specified in the service level commiittment, the TOC is free to run extra services subject to NR» (Network Rail - home page) paths being avaiable!

Indeed whilst I'm not a fan of FIRST, I will give credit that First run services on some Branch lines above the specified level, one example is that Plymouth-Gunnislake has a service of 9 trains a day Monday to Friday where as the MSL (Miniature Stop Lights (foot crossing)) is 8 trains.
The logic is good the Train is Hired, the Train Crew being paid so might as well work rather than sit in a Mess room, so the cost of the extra train is Fuel and Train path, but more trains means more passengers, and the Extra Branch line trains, which generally run good to time help push up the Trains run to time performance figures. All very good business sense.

Yet at the same time I consider (and hope others will agree) that Melksham in Wiltshire has been very badly served by FGW (First Great Western), when First took over from Wessex, the almost decent level of service was to cut back to a level NOT fitting for a town of Melkshams size.
Yet it's an Issue FGW just ignored, I'm sure that it wouldn't have hurt if one or two of the daily Plymouth, Paington, Exeter or Taunton to London services (and vicky versa) were routed via Westbury and Swindon calling at Melksham.
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matt473
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« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2012, 11:32:01 »

Given that there are already current overcrowding issues around the M4 corridor with fgw into London, then encouraging people onto services may have short term gains but severe long term losses. Services even more overcrowded this week may make current users decide enough is enough and revert to driving to work. To counter that, first could delay some maintenance by a week to offer increased capacity, but this in turn would lead to the week after having a shortage of units that could see cancelled and short formed services, again increasing overcrowding on services a week later possibly leading to more regular users deciding enough is enough and no longer travel by train again. A lose lose situation where fgw should focus on keeping its current users happy, not a few extras for a few days only.

Tbh I believe that first is pretty proactive in providing extra capacity if possible as seen by hst's for football fans for certain games and even providing more capacity in Wales for rugby internationals than the local Toc with extra hst's and strengthened units from Bristol. If it was possible then I believe fgw would have made suitable arrangements but it is not possible.
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