W.I.H.I.H? - Delays 09/07/12

[whole diary]

[gpn01]

Had an important meeting this evening, so left the office early to allow for any possible delays.  So, check website- no delays showing.  Receive daily email notification - no delays.  Get to Paddington at 17:00 to see a theme developing of trains showing as 'on time' and then 'delayed' as the departure time gets closer.  Elected to go for the 17:12 (or 15?) slow, stopping, train to Maidenhead as it looked like there was something brewing - and there was no clue as to cause of delays other than delays being due to ...earlier delays!  Train departs and chugs along until it reaches Hayes.  Sits at platform for a while and I'm wondering how much longer it's going to wait and is it normal.  Eventually member of station staff boards train and announces train is now cancelled because of a fault.  Great, so now I'm stuck at Hayes....and timed perfectly to watch several trains out of Paddington whizzing past!  Fortunately the 17.42 (now delayed until 17:49) arrived but it was only a 3 carriage train (and the cancelled train, whose passengers were now standing on the platform) was a six carriage set I think....end result, frustration by passengers who'd been disgorged at Hayes without a proper explanation were now expected to squeeze onto an already busy train. 

Eventually made it to Maidenhead somewhat later than expected and none the wiser as to what had caused the original delay, what caused us to be disembarked at Hayes, why a train hadn't stopped en-route through Hayes to pick the passengers up (several went past).  Ho hum!

[johoare]

My 16 year old son and his friend (same age) had exactly the same experience as you.. First time travelling on their own properly too (!). They are none the wiser either.. They assumed it was the train they/you were on had broken down.. Sounds like it might not be the case?

[johoare]

oh and I'm sure you know as I imagine it was the same for you but they eventually got back to Maidenhead.. having not got on the next train through Hayes but the one after.. about 6.40.. Not bad for a 5.15 departure from Paddington 

[Southern Stag]

There had been a problem ongoing all afternoon and still isn't resolved yet. There was a track circuit failure near Langley on the down main line from around 1445. All trains were originally using the down relief line, which will have caused delays to all down trains and services using the up fast line. In the evening peak trains started using the down main line again but they had to stop at a signal and ring the signaller for authorisation to pass it whilst it was stuck showing a red aspect, this obviously delays trains quite a bit still, and limits how many services can be run via the main lines. I imagine a number of services that would usually run on the main lines to Slough or Maidenhead were instead running on the relief lines as there was not the capacity on the main lines for them. That problem should have been notified to people, it was well known and ongoing. The 17:15 London Paddington-Maidenhead failed at Hayes and had to be terminated there, but it was due to a pa fault, which is probably why information was poor on the failure, the driver couldn't communicate to the passengers.

[johoare]

It sounds like the communication re the ongoing problem was non existent at Paddington then?

[LiskeardRich]

Southern Stag, why would a PA^▸ (Public Address) fault require a service to be terminated, i have been on numerous services where it is at fault and is not audible, or is just crackles.

[Southern Stag]

It's in the rulebook, a train cannot operate with defective PA^▸ (Public Address) equipment. It's an important piece of equipment in the event of an emergency.

[grahame]

It's in the rulebook, a train cannot operate with defective PA^▸ (Public Address) equipment. It's an important piece of equipment in the event of an emergency.

I could show my age here.  I don't ever remember any announcements in the 4EPBs - nor door locking, come to think of it. Mind you, in the early days only the brake van had brakes - not even the locomotives, and it would be unthinkable these days for the driver to have to ask the train manager to stop the train for him ...

[bobm]

I would be interested to know what the definition of "defective PA^▸ (Public Address)" is.  In the last six months I have been on HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) where it seems that one of the PA microphones is not working properly.  Thus when the Train Manager made annoucements from this position he could not be heard, but when he used another it was fine.  On one occasion I did mention it as he passed through and he was grateful even though it meant he had to announce a short platform from a different handset and then move swiftly down the train to be at the correct panel to work the doors.

[Electric train]

I would be interested to know what the definition of "defective PA^▸ (Public Address)" is.  In the last six months I have been on HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) where it seems that one of the PA microphones is not working properly.  Thus when the Train Manager made annoucements from this position he could not be heard, but when he used another it was fine.  On one occasion I did mention it as he passed through and he was grateful even though it meant he had to announce a short platform from a different handset and then move swiftly down the train to be at the correct panel to work the doors.

There is a difference between a 165/6 DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) train and an HST with a TM^‡(resolve), DOO needs a PA the drive dose not have the ability to walk through a train to advise on problems where as on an HST the TM can walk through.

I caught the 16:27 from Padd yesterday arrived Maidenhead on time

[JayMac]

It's in the rulebook, a train cannot operate with defective PA^▸ (Public Address) equipment. It's an important piece of equipment in the event of an emergency.

The entry in the Rule Book regarding Public Address Systems can be read here, which is part of Rule Book module TW5.

On a DO train, passengers must only be allowed to travel in vehicles on which the public address system is working.

Further reading (if you've got lots of time to spare!) on the Rule Book and Railway Group Standards, which covers all aspects of safe and correct operation on the rail network and its stations, depots, yards, signal boxes/signalling centres etc. can be read at rgsonline.co.uk.

[IndustryInsider]

Always been a bit of a silly rule as the driver of a DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) train (and indeed TM^‡(resolve)'s on non-DOO trains) often won't be aware if the PA^▸ (Public Address) in a particular carriage isn't working.  It's not something you can easily check.

[JayMac]

It would appear then that, had there not been existing problems following the TC^‡(resolve) failure, this unit with the faulty PA^▸ (Public Address) may well have continued as booked - the driver having no need to use the PA to inform passengers about delays.

But then I suppose once a safety critical issue becomes known the Rule Book has to be followed to the er, rule.

[gpn01]

It does beg the question of how did the driver become aware of a defective P.A. and how is it tested once the train is in service?

[IndustryInsider]

In almost all cases regarding DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) services the failure is a complete failure throughout the entire unit, rather than an individual carriage.  Something like the cab handset failing would be something the driver would be aware of and would need to act on, whereas something like the speakers not working in the middle carriage would usually only be detected whilst testing on depot.