Go-Op Cooperative - update

[whole diary]

[grahame]

On the path to a new train service there are both steps forward and setbacks, and if we look back at the Go-op Cooperative plans and schedules from a few years back, it would seem that the weight of the setbacks and delays along the way wasn't realistically factored in - if "2 years from now" in 2010 had been correct, their service would have been up and running, and it would also have helped in the credibility of their case.   Indeed they have been surprised by just how long some of the matters have taken, but at the same time they presented their team as being fully versed in these matter and thus (one assumes) knowing how long to schedule.   They are also in something of a quandary, I suspect, by being caught between being a co-operative / community lead outfit on one hand, and challenging (for commercial reasons) requests by others for paths which will provide services for that very community from which they wish to draw their co-operative members.

... and the one part of the route where they could genuinely have provided a service is about to have a meaningful service reinstated.

Yes indeed .... BUT 

Go-op trains added to the Westbury to Swindon section won't now make such a dramatic, life changing difference that they would have done added to a line served at 07:18 and 19:47 only.   But - added to a line served at 0720 0748 1004 1203 1430 1631 1848 1947 - a couple of early trains - 05:48, 06:48 then 08:48, 10:48, 13:48, 17:48 and 20:48 shall we say, you're getting up to an hourly service and I suspect that the traffic would actually be higher per train than on the two hourly (yes, we have done some maths on this and a big question in early 2011 was whether an appropriate service was hourly or twohourly on the line).    I remember talking to a jeweller who's competitor had just gone out of business.  "But isn't it great - you get the business" I commented.   He looked at me sadly as he replied "but with two jewellers in competition, people came into town to visit us both - now they don't because there's only the one player in town".

I'm also going to point out the Swindon - Oxford flow that's still not covered.   I took at early train last Saturday from Chippenham to London.   As we pulled in to Didcot, still in the dark, I could hear the Thames Turbo pulling out as it left for Oxford, and there is a flow that could and perhaps should be watered and grown.

I'm not commenting on the likelihood, but rather on the case.   I'll leave the likelihood and technical matters to Go-op people, some of whom read and occasionally post here, and who are informed and invited to TransWilts meetings as potential operators with an active interest in services in the future.  I did note that paperwork distributed to every seat at the Railfuture meeting in Oxford a few weeks back talked about the possibility of a service starting in 2014, though the lady from Wantage (there's another station / flow for them to cover) did say when I asked that it's probably more like 2015 now.    These things can - once the ducks are all in a line - progress very well.

[eightf48544]

Grahame's anecdote "  "I remember talking to a jeweller who's competitor had just gone out of business.  "But isn't it great - you get the business" I commented.   He looked at me sadly as he replied "but with two jewellers in competition, people came into town to visit us both - now they don't because there's only the one player in town".

Reminds me of a very early economics lecture where we were posed the question, There is long beech with currently one ice cream seller along the whole length. You have just won a licence to open a second stall where do you site it? The answer surprised me next to the exisitng one. But when expalined it was the same reason Graham quoted it gave people a choice.

Not sure it's quite the same with public transport hopefully we've got away from the rival 08:30 buses on the same route, but I do agree that a near hourly service is going to attract more passengers than a two hourly one whoever runs the trains.

[grahame]

... But when expalined it was the same reason Graham quoted it gave people a choice.

Not sure it's quite the same with public transport hopefully we've got away from the rival 08:30 buses on the same route, but I do agree that a near hourly service is going to attract more passengers than a two hourly one whoever runs the trains.

The biggest selling factor on public transport is the time at which it runs, if it follows a similar route. "Right in front" works competitively / commercially for the front operator, unfortunately.  Fare income isn't important during the day, as most people riding are on concessionary passes.   It's an odd model.   The ice cream and jeweller models differ in that there are product factor that separate the products even in the same physical location.  It all a matter of degree though.

It could be "all change" on our rival bus routes around Melksham from January.   Faresaver have registered changes for most of their routes. It's possible to see the title boxes like

PH0004798/3 JOHN VALENTINE PICKFORD T/A FARESAVER, THE COACH YARD, VINCIENTS ROAD, BUMPERS FARM CHIPPENHAM SN14 6QA. Operating between CHIPPENHAM, BUS STATION and FROME, SAINSBURYS given service number X34 effective from 02-Jan-2014. To amend Timetable.

but the actual timetables come by post or fax on payment and clearance of a fee by cheque - or at least they did six months ago - and I'm not following that route.   The following routes / route sets are listed
X83/68/Zigzag
77/87/L1
X72
X31
228

Back to the trains ...

[grahame]

Latest Newsletter - http://www.go-op.coop/workspace/uploads/files/going_forward8.pdf

It has also not escaped our notice that, while we strive to bring our product to market, the market itself continues to grow. The travelling public^s demand for rail is unstoppable. Indeed the investment being made by Network Rail to meet that demand ^ including the electrification of much of our intended route ^ can only be good for the rail industry.

Alex Lawrie, who wrote this is part of his report, is correct in identifying the public's demand - and indeed the growth of passenger numbers on the Westbury - Swindon section that is part of the Go-op has been working on has been spectacular.

[Btline]

Surely now that Melksham has a decent service, this proposal will come to nothing?

I doubt it would make a profit anyway!

[Rhydgaled]

Surely now that Melksham has a decent service, this proposal will come to nothing?

I doubt it would make a profit anyway!

Maybe now Melksham has a service to speak of, Go-Op will change their plan to run from Bristol, providing the Bristol - Oxford service some on this fourm have mooted in the past?

[TeaStew]

Personally from a work perspective decent Melksham -> Oxford rail links would be fantastic and being able to go further to Birmingham would be no bad thing. At the end of the day I wouldn't say no to a renewed Bristol -> Oxford from GO-OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter) if that happened instead.

Nothing not roughly echoed by other forum members in that I would imagine. I would be interested to know if anyone on here has decided to become a GO-OP member though...

[grahame]

There are a noticeable number of passengers travelling between Melksham and Birmingham / north thereof (yes, myself included) ... but that's just one flow.  I was taking [hotel] bookings from Milton Keynes earlier today, and Oxford is a very popular destination.

Make no mistake - the current service on the TransWilts, with passenger numbers running at several times target, still has a long way to grow and will surely need additional stock / seats / services if it's not to become stifled like a plant that's pot-bound. Passenger numbers have already overtaken other single-train lines with similar end to end running times in the South West.

All options / approaches have their good and bad points ...

I made a conscious decision quite a long time ago that it wouldn't be wise for me to become a member / shareholder in any of the companies who might be providing train services that call at Melksham, as it could lead to suggestions of a potential conflict of interest.  I would probably make an exception in the case of a charter train company (such as the one who's steam trains have called here), and I would have little option but be a shareholder if Direct Operated Railways provided services, as in effect we're all shareholders in them.

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

On rail privatisation 20 years ago the then government said that privatisation would enable new entrants to provide new rail services and give competition to the existing franchise holders.
Since then govenments seems to have done everything it can to prevent new entrants to the rail industry and protect present franchise holders who have protested that new entrants would cream off their trade.
Go-op seems to have been caught up in these problems. I know nothing about potential Melksham traffic but I feel sure there are many people from Oxford, my local area, Banbury and further north that would like the opportunity of direct rail travel to and from Swindon but years after first proposed, nothing much seems to be happening.

[John R]

I'm not sure Go-op have got far enough to encounter the problems that you suggest are an entry to open access operators.

Isn't their problem lack of capital, lack of rolling stock, and lack of experienced railway management that can go through the necessary process to establish a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)?

[Chris from Nailsea]

Posting here in a personal capacity: that was certainly the impression that I formed, too. 

[Oberon]

This seems to be their latest update: -

http://www.go-op.coop/info/

[IndustryInsider]

So, a two-page newsletter, one page of which is devoted to the town of Swindon, and the other with a couple of short articles blaming a whole host of things for there being very little progress on their intended open access franchise and a promise of things moving forward in the next year - but very little detail and certainly no clearly defined targets.  I wonder how the Annual General Meeting (AGM^▸ (Annual General Meeting)) went?

I'd still rate the chances of this coming to anything as somewhere between 0 and 5%.   

Edit: VickiS - Clarifying Acronym

[Essex exile]

In view of the recent push by 10 MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) including Duncan Hames to introduce a Bath to Bedford service - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29430204 -would it be worth considering pushing for a link up to the Trans Wilts service? Perhaps literally, attaching/detaching the two at Chippenham using bimodal units? After all, Duncan Hames has been heavily involved with the Trans Wilts too.

[grahame]

The issue about rolling stock is interesting, I thought they were looking at ordering some trains from CSRE which would have given the chinese manufacturer a chance to prove that they could build good reliable trains  ...

Reuters report CSR^▸ (Cab Secure Radio) and CNR (chinese rolling stock suppliers) to merge ...
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/12/30/china-cnr-ma-csr-corp-idUKL5N0SN05020141230?rpc=401

A joining of the firms - which have so far competed against each other to sell trains abroad - will help solidify China's campaign to sell its high-speed technology abroad.

On the main subject of this thread (Go op) - I have no recent update; the latest news I've read is their newsletter No. 8 mentioned above.   Several prominent people in Go op are members and occasional posters, and we would love an update - and especially to co-ordinate on responses to the Route Consultation which closes in a few days.  Growing traffic in several sectors already puts a strain on resources, especially between Chippenham and Trowbridge, and there are indications that additional capacity is needed both in terms of services to handle freight and passenger flows, and in terms of infrastructure to handle those services.