Go-Op Cooperative - proposals for additional rail services (merged posts)

[whole diary]

[Celestial]

I see the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) also think the application is rather vague and woolly.

https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/41593/go-op_economic_equilibrium_test_notification.pdf

(Sorry, I can't paste a quote, but the first paragraph of the DfT's letter says so, although in more polite terms.)

[grahame]

I have the tools now that you have supplied the link - thank you

The information available at this point is clearly limited and high-level, providing a number of options for proposed routes and extremely limited information on the service pattern and rolling stock. Therefore, it is challenging to understand the extent of the impacts (and whether they would be substantial) upon the economic equilibrium of numerous public service contracts.

[grahame]

From Transport Extra

Prospective open access train operator Go-Op Co-operative Ltd has submitted new applications to the Office of Rail and Road for services in southwest England from May 2021.

The primary application covers a service between Taunton and Swindon via Castle Cary, Frome, Westbury, Trowbridge, Melksham, and Chippenham.

Trains would operate no more than every two hours and two services each day could be extended beyond Taunton to Exeter St David’s and beyond Swindon to Bristol...

[Celestial]

And another service application from Taunton to Watchet, one of which may start from Castle Cary or Frome, and another from Castle Cary to Yeovil, some of which may, or may not, be extended to Dorchester or Gillingham.

I didn't think there was much spare capacity on the lines around Yeovil for a Viva Rail 230 to trundle around getting in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and SWR^» (South Western Railway - about)'s way, especially now SWR has filled in some of the gaps. 

[IndustryInsider]

Good to see the plans are at such an advanced stage after all these years.  I’m looking forward to travelling on the first train in 18 months time, though I won’t book any overnight accommodation yet as I’ve no idea where the train will be running to or from!   

[TonyK]

And another service application from Taunton to Watchet, one of which may start from Castle Cary or Frome, and another from Castle Cary to Yeovil, some of which may, or may not, be extended to Dorchester or Gillingham.

I didn't think there was much spare capacity on the lines around Yeovil for a Viva Rail 230 to trundle around getting in GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and SWR^» (South Western Railway - about)'s way, especially now SWR has filled in some of the gaps. 

Taunton to Watchet? Why not Minehead?

[grahame]

For completeness of proposal, following from forms on the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) website.

https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0014/42044/go-op-open-access-economic-equilibrium-test-form-november-2019.pdf

Taunton – Castle Cary – Bruton* - Frome* - Westbury – Trowbridge – Melksham – Chippenham – Swindon
Two services each day may be extended beyond Taunton to Exeter with Exeter St David – Tiverton Parkway – Taunton; and two extended beyond Swindon with Swindon – Bristol Parkway.

No more than every two hours; southbound from Swindon at xx08, northbound from Westbury at xx15. First departure from Westbury after 0630, last arrival at Westbury before 2130. Stations marked * may be passed on some trips.

Class 319 IPEMU^▸ (Independely Powered Electic Multiple Unit (train running on batteries))

https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0013/42043/go-op-open-access-economic-equilibrium-test-form-2019-11-15.pdf

1. Taunton – Bishops Lydeard – Williton - Watchet (national network to Norton Fitzwarren Junction, West Somerset Railway beyond). Once per day each way, this will be extended with Taunton - Castle Cary or Taunton – Castle Cary – Frome.

2. Castle Cary – Yeovil Pen Mill – Yeovil Junction. Once per day each way, this may be extended with Frome – Castle Cary. Twice per day each way, this may be extended with Yeovil Junction – Sherborne – Templecombe – Gillingham; twice per day each way it may instead operate Castle Cary – Yeovil Pen Mill – Thornford – Yetminster – Maiden Newton – Dorchester West. These extensions may be needed to make efficient use of capacity, or to add regularity to services from market towns.

No more than every two hours; timings will be subject to discussion with GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) with the aim of approaching an hourly clockface service for Yeovil Pen Mill. First departure from either Frome or Castle Cary between 0500 and 0630, last arrival at Frome or Castle Cary between 2100 and 2230. This service is dependent on GO-OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter) securing rights for mainline Taunton – Swindon services which are the subject of a separate application.

Class 230 IPEMU

[Rhydgaled]

For completeness of proposal, following from forms on the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) website.

https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0014/42044/go-op-open-access-economic-equilibrium-test-form-november-2019.pdf

Taunton – Castle Cary – Bruton* - Frome* - Westbury – Trowbridge – Melksham – Chippenham – Swindon
Two services each day may be extended beyond Taunton to Exeter with Exeter St David – Tiverton Parkway – Taunton; and two extended beyond Swindon with Swindon – Bristol Parkway.

No more than every two hours; southbound from Swindon at xx08, northbound from Westbury at xx15. First departure from Westbury after 0630, last arrival at Westbury before 2130. Stations marked * may be passed on some trips.

Class 319 IPEMU^▸ (Independely Powered Electic Multiple Unit (train running on batteries))

https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0013/42043/go-op-open-access-economic-equilibrium-test-form-2019-11-15.pdf

1. Taunton – Bishops Lydeard – Williton - Watchet (national network to Norton Fitzwarren Junction, West Somerset Railway beyond). Once per day each way, this will be extended with Taunton - Castle Cary or Taunton – Castle Cary – Frome.

2. Castle Cary – Yeovil Pen Mill – Yeovil Junction. Once per day each way, this may be extended with Frome – Castle Cary. Twice per day each way, this may be extended with Yeovil Junction – Sherborne – Templecombe – Gillingham; twice per day each way it may instead operate Castle Cary – Yeovil Pen Mill – Thornford – Yetminster – Maiden Newton – Dorchester West. These extensions may be needed to make efficient use of capacity, or to add regularity to services from market towns.

No more than every two hours; timings will be subject to discussion with GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) with the aim of approaching an hourly clockface service for Yeovil Pen Mill. First departure from either Frome or Castle Cary between 0500 and 0630, last arrival at Frome or Castle Cary between 2100 and 2230. This service is dependent on GO-OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter) securing rights for mainline Taunton – Swindon services which are the subject of a separate application.

Class 230 IPEMU

Interesting choice of rolling stock. Both 230 and 319 are suffixed IPEMU. The only other train that has been given that designation as far as I can recall is the class 379 battery prototype unit. In other words, IPEMU means battery trains without on-board diesel generator. Vivarail has their rapid-charge concept for the 230s, but the 319 would only have a little bit of OverHead - Line Equipment (OHLE) between Chippenham and Swindon to charge up the batteries. I didn't think that battery technology had advanced enough to allow such range.

Edit: VickiS - Clarifying acronym

[IndustryInsider]

I wonder how detailed their discussions with suppliers of said types of rolling stock have been?  You would imagine they are about to announce the deal(s) if they are to be working their trains within 18 months.

[ChrisB]

They won’t sign on the rolling stock dotted line until they get a favourable response from the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) applications

[IndustryInsider]

Indeed.  And that probably won’t happen.  Though I still wonder how detailed their discussions have been thus far.

[grahame]

Missed this video - over a year old; sadly, a year is not a long time in setting up a rail service, so still worth a read.

Building a co-operative train line: Alex Lawrie of Go-op

[bobm]

There is a transcript of the video here

https://www.lowimpact.org/co-operative-train-line-alex-lawrie/

[Celestial]

Missed this video - over a year old; sadly, a year is not a long time in setting up a rail service, so still worth a read.

Or maybe that should be a decade in Go-Op's case?

[eightonedee]

He talks a good game, but never mind what has actually happened, stating that his class 769 rolling stock would be delivered on time is possibly symptomatic of a lack of appreciation of what is really involved?  Even this time last year it seemed clear from information on this forum that the timescale was constantly slipping.  Anyone out there think he would have got his trains by January?