Extending Crossrail to Reading - ongoing discussion, merged topic

[whole diary]

[Shazz]

Crossrail says its a connecting service, so why not extend it to Reading and connect Reading, Henley-on-Thames, Basingstoke, as well as even Birmingham (connected to Reading by CrossCountry) to Essex?.

Whilst your at it, extend it to Cardiff! 

[jane s]

There is no point unless you will be able to get a FAST^▸ (Federation Against Software Theft) train from Reading to Paddington which then stops at the Crossrail stops between Paddington & Liiverpool Street.

Otherwise why not just change at Paddington onto Crossrail, in which case what difference would it make if it went from Reading or Maidenhead?

[tom-langley]

That is a fair point if you are going beyond Paddington from Reading, and all people coming from further than that. My point is that Reading is already used as a terminus for some FGW^▸ (First Great Western) local services, for people travelling from intermediate stops between Paddington and Reading, currently if they want to got long distance they either have to go to Paddington or Reading (depending on which is closer) to catch a long distance train.

Lets say someone wants to travel from Slough to Bristol, according to Network Rail travel planner, catch a train to Reading and then change onto a fast to Bristol. When crossrail is introduced an extra change at Maidenhead will be introduced, making journey time infact longer. Seems pointless to me when crossrail could easily be extended to Reading where nearly all the long distance trains stop making a much smoother interchange. I don^t think that FGW/Government/network rail (who ever does the timetable) will have the organisation to make interchange at Maidenhead any good and we will end up waiting half and hour for the next train at Maidenhead.

I also think that electrifying the track to Reading would give the government the stepping-stone to electrifying the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) at least if not the whole network. Even Network Rail want to do this and have urged the Government to re-consider its choice in replacement for the 125/225 intercity train, which is currently set to be both diesel and electric

[Btline]

I agree! They say that "people from Reading can get expresses to London."

What about the people who want to go from their local station to reading? A change has changed to changes!

Extension is vital.

The reason why GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) won't be electrified, is because the Severn Tunnel can't have overhead wires, making the project less viable (2 tph fewer would be electric).

Nonsense in my opinion! If anything, they should install a 3rd rail from Bristol Parkway to Newport, and have the trains switch at these stations!

Electrification is vital!

[devon_metro]

Third rail cannot be installed on new lines/electrification schemes. Besides, there is not third rail stock that exceed 100mph and surely a third rail would face the same problems as OHLE, or is the tunnel too low?

[Btline]

I am not sure of the details!

I just thought a bit of 3rd rail and an electrified GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) would be better than HST^▸ (High Speed Train) on the old track!

[jane s]

Lets say someone wants to travel from Slough to Bristol, according to Network Rail travel planner, catch a train to Reading and then change onto a fast to Bristol. When crossrail is introduced an extra change at Maidenhead will be introduced, making journey time infact longer.

So basically are you saying then that when Crossrail is introduced, there will be only two speeds - "fast" i.e. non-stop to Paddington, & "Slow" stopping at every single stop?

I was assuming that the present semi-fast services, stopping at just Twyford, Maidenhead, Slough & Hayes, would also be continuing, so that the issue of having to change at Maidenhead would not really arise.

If I am wrong about this, what a nightmare this would be - NO fast services to Paddington at all from anywhere beyond Maidenhead!

[tom-langley]

All local FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services between Maidenhead to Paddington, will be replaced my Crossrail. In the case of the semi, fast services, I don^t know. As far as I am aware, FGW will not be running on the relief lines, this will be Crossrail only and I have not seen that Crossrail will be running any semi-fast services. FGW may continue to run some from further away, but in the case of Slough they are not that often, and it is often quicker to get a slow anyway cause of the wait for a fast train.

The example I raised is also valid for other stations that are not served by semi-fast services, which still means that it is an extra change at maidenhead.

There is no definite timetable for corssrail, and I expect it will be a few years before we see on, but the information so far is that they will provide 4 trains per hour between Maidenhead and Hayes, presumably all local stopping services.

[chemphys]

This indicates there will be semi fast services similar to the present day. Of course, whether things will be the same in 8 years is another matter 

(Department for Transport - about)-Apx4-E5.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/s18-xrail-DfT-Apx4-E5.pdf (see page 5)

[tom-langley]

Here is something interesting

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7230375.stm

So it looks like it might be an option.

[Lee]

Here is something interesting

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7230375.stm

So it looks like it might be an option.

More in the quotes below :

Latest links from the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/regional/policy/lt/metronetmou.pdf

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/regional/policy/lt/tflsettlementletteroctober.pdf

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/regional/policy/lt/trlsettlementletterfebruary.pdf

http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/speechesstatements/statements/crossrailupdate

http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/speechesstatements/statements/fundingtfl

Nice to see that on the Crossrail link that the route from Maidenhead to Reading is being 'safeguarded' should future expansion of Crossrail be deemed appropriate to this more logical terminus.

Worded very carefully to ensure that there is no cause for further delay to the commencement of works, of course, but I would not be too surprised to see the opinions of the westerly terminus change over the next few years.

[Shazz]

i thought it was supposed to be 3rd rail all the way?

[swlines]

CrossRail will be OHLE - new third rail lines are not permitted unless its "under" power collection.

[eightf48544]

The main problem is Crossrail is that it is basically a TFL^▸ (Transport for London) project.

Ken has been to Paris and seen the double deck RER services which crisscross the city.

What Ken doesn't realise is that Paris is relatively small in area and the RER only extend about 10 miles out of the centre. Whch means crosrail should only come Hayes/airport. Maidenhead is 23 miles out and Reading 36.

The problem is that the Relief lines cannot take 24tph beyond Paddington which is why around half the trains coming WEst through teh city will terminate Paddington and why there is special platform being built at Westbourne Park for passengers to alight that fail to get off in Eastbourne Gardens. 

It works (just) to the East as its splits with 12 tph to Shenfield existing service frequency and the other 12 to Abbey Wood (new station no conflict).

The other issue that has been mentioned before is that Crossrail is paying for electrification West of Hayes. As an asside it would be interstign to know how much they are paying BAA for use of teh wires out of Padd. Thus they could only afford enough copper to get to Maidenhead.

Which leads to another question why are one of few major countries in Europe without an rolling electrification programme. If we had such a thing wires would stetch to Bristol Plymouth Cardiff etc. So Crossrail would make use of existing infrastructure.

Severn tunnel is intersting re electrification maybe you could use ridgid bar conductors (as in the low  level at Berlin Hbf at say 6.25KV (1/4 25kv) as used on the original Glasgow and Liverpool Street 25Kv schemes. It should be possible with modern semi conductor controls to manage to necessary voltage change without blowing up the transformers as happened on Glasgow and Liverpool street lines. All the major loco manufacturers offer 4 voltage locos including D and AC plus different frequencies 50 cycles most of Europe 162/3 cycles Germany Austria Switzerland. So adding 6.25Kv shouldn't be a problem




 

[Lee]

An interesting article entitled "Electrification: Time for battle lines to be drawn?" (link below.)
http://www.railnews.co.uk/2008/01/opinions/200801_alanmarshall.html