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Author Topic: Railway bridges struck by road vehicles - merged topic, ongoing discussion  (Read 73378 times)
Adelante_CCT
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« Reply #225 on: January 09, 2019, 10:24:14 am »

We have those on the approach to the Cow Lane bridges in Reading, doesn't do any good!

Also didn't help for a few weeks a couple of years ago when one of the sensors near to Tesco had been knocked down but was still functioning, meaning every vehicle that went passed triggered the sign
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #226 on: January 09, 2019, 10:27:12 am »

I've never managed to find any clear rules mandating where signs must be present, just the manual that prescribes what they are look like. So the size and content (with alternatives) of the sign and chord marker on the arch are set out, but with these words:
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Mandatory signs are not used at arch bridges, as the main risk to these comes from vehicles which, although low enough to pass through the central part of the arch, might strike the curved shoulder of the structure.
Those "mandatory signs" must be the ones with just the headroom in a triangle.

What the manual says "should" be provided is enough advance signage, including routes avoiding, to fit with that principle that the markings on the bridge are not there to keep totally overheight vehicles from hitting it.
I think "mandatory signs" refers to the ones in a red circle which mandate the prohibition Ė the red triangle signs are merely a warning.
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stuving
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« Reply #227 on: January 09, 2019, 03:50:47 pm »

I've never managed to find any clear rules mandating where signs must be present, just the manual that prescribes what they are look like. So the size and content (with alternatives) of the sign and chord marker on the arch are set out, but with these words:
Quote
Mandatory signs are not used at arch bridges, as the main risk to these comes from vehicles which, although low enough to pass through the central part of the arch, might strike the curved shoulder of the structure.
Those "mandatory signs" must be the ones with just the headroom in a triangle.

What the manual says "should" be provided is enough advance signage, including routes avoiding, to fit with that principle that the markings on the bridge are not there to keep totally overheight vehicles from hitting it.

I think "mandatory signs" refers to the ones in a red circle which mandate the prohibition Ė the red triangle signs are merely a warning.

You're right - I was thinking about the other meaning of "mandatory", as that was the subject of that post.

In fact there's a load of stuff about the (round) advance mandatory signs and how they should not be put where a vehicle might need to pass for access to somewhere not via the bridge, since the prohibition has legal force. That's one of the reasons for using the blue information signs, where the embedded mandatory sign provides advance warning that there is a maximum height but isn't a mandatory height limit itself.

While I can see the point of the bit I quoted above, about signage at the bridge guiding vehicles as a priority, I fail to see why the advance sign containing the maximum height for passage under the top of the arch isn't mandatory.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #228 on: January 09, 2019, 11:19:16 pm »

Presumably the advance sign has to reflect the signage at the actual point. To be, in effect, a "repeater" of the sign not of the obstacle.

Some arch bridges have three height limit signs Ė one for the central portion of the arch and one for each side. I guess it has to be a reasonably wide arch for there to be point in that, but it seems to me that perhaps the current way of signing arch bridges is not entirely satisfactory. It's the shoulders that are the main problem, I think, because high vehicles tend to also be wide.
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stuving
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« Reply #229 on: January 09, 2019, 11:32:21 pm »

Presumably the advance sign has to reflect the signage at the actual point. To be, in effect, a "repeater" of the sign not of the obstacle.

Some arch bridges have three height limit signs Ė one for the central portion of the arch and one for each side. I guess it has to be a reasonably wide arch for there to be point in that, but it seems to me that perhaps the current way of signing arch bridges is not entirely satisfactory. It's the shoulders that are the main problem, I think, because high vehicles tend to also be wide.

I think you need to read the manual to judge - there is more to it. For one thing, the central (or only) chord is at least 3 m wide.
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LiskeardRich
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« Reply #230 on: January 10, 2019, 05:14:21 am »


He came past a 12ft triangle height sign. only in imperial.

Well did she, thought? I can see the 12 shilling sign at the bridge - prominently displayed behind the branch of a tree - but I couldn't see any others when I googled up and down the lane...

The sign is at the start of the lane, in the village next to the pub. Itís a couple of miles from the bridge, but the lane is continuous with no other roads joining. Thatís where any advanced warning would be, itís too late half way down a narrow lane.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #231 on: January 10, 2019, 08:30:06 am »

Aha, that's what I was hoping for - thank you, LiskeardRich.

Can we all agree that it would be helpful if these signs had to also gave the height in metres? Which units are used on the in-cab signs other posters have mentioned?
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Clan Line
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« Reply #232 on: January 10, 2019, 09:12:31 am »


He came past a 12ft triangle height sign. only in imperial.

Well did she, thought? I can see the 12 shilling sign at the bridge - prominently displayed behind the branch of a tree - but I couldn't see any others when I googled up and down the lane...

The sign is at the start of the lane, in the village next to the pub. Itís a couple of miles from the bridge, but the lane is continuous with no other roads joining. Thatís where any advanced warning would be, itís too late half way down a narrow lane.

I think it has to be said that the "warning" sign does not do its job particularly well. The sign appears to be placed in the middle of a "Y" junction - which leg of the "Y" does it refer to ? It is not a particularly large sign (to keep the locals happy ?), there appears to be both a shop and a pub close by. It would not take much in the way of distraction from other traffic or pedestrians for a passing driver to miss the sign completely.
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LiskeardRich
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« Reply #233 on: January 10, 2019, 12:13:51 pm »

Aha, that's what I was hoping for - thank you, LiskeardRich.

Can we all agree that it would be helpful if these signs had to also gave the height in metres? Which units are used on the in-cab signs other posters have mentioned?


Having driven both LGVs and buses, I believe the cab signs have been in both metric and imperial in everything Iíve driven. Although I can recall the feet and inches sizes of vehicles I drove 12 months ago I canít remember the metric! The last vehicle I drove yesterday was 14í6 for example.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #234 on: January 10, 2019, 12:28:03 pm »

I'm struggling to find chapter and verse on this, but it looks like by law the in-cab height indicator has to be in feet and inches - though it's not illegal to use post-Victorian units as well if you wish to. Very bizarre. Do lorry drivers have to pay their road tax in guineas?
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Adrian
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« Reply #235 on: January 10, 2019, 08:59:18 pm »

One solution is the height scanning beam approaching the bridge under the railway at Pontrilas on the A465 between Abergavenny and Hereford.    Overheight vehicles travelling towards Hereford get a big warning sign.

And despite of that, it still gets hit.  Just last week, I think.
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« Reply #236 on: January 10, 2019, 09:56:07 pm »

One solution is the height scanning beam approaching the bridge under the railway at Pontrilas on the A465 between Abergavenny and Hereford.    Overheight vehicles travelling towards Hereford get a big warning sign.

And despite of that, it still gets hit.  Just last week, I think.

I wonder every day how many bridges suffer careless drivers?.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #237 on: January 11, 2019, 05:34:21 pm »

A lorry has hit Whitby Road bridge (this one: https://goo.gl/maps/7ENUhHcdV1k) this afternoon (11 Jan 2019). You can read all about it here: https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/heavy-traffic-building-lorry-gets-2420746

There are warning signs on the approaches to this bridge - though there is a lack of consistency; approaching from the east you'd see this sign: https://goo.gl/maps/CkX1FmunWez (you might want to bring your hedge trimmers). though as you get nearer you'll see this https://goo.gl/maps/SKndAqZwUBu; approaching from the west (as this lorry seems to have) you'd see this: https://goo.gl/maps/2JVZB9GVxkr
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