MPs to meet minister over Worcestershire to London rail services

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Knife and fork - "Full Restaurant Service"
Just a fork (in rest of timetable - not used in my post) - "Light refreshments, drinks and hot dishes"
Cup and saucer - "Snacks and Drinks"

Notes
D - Restaurant (SX), Snacks (SO) from Worcester
H - Restaurant and Snacks from Newport
K - Snacks on Saturday Only

[IndustryInsider]

Many thanks to Industryinsider for being so courteous as to have overlooked the errors in my post. 6:35 should have course have read 5:35 and 6:28, 5:28.  However, despite these errors, my point remains the same, ie once slack is introduced into the timetable, for whatever reason, it seems to remain there indefinitely.  For example, so far as I can recall, the Paddington Station Re-signalling was undertaken in the early 1990's, some years prior to the tragic Ladbroke Grove crash of 1999, but the additional time allowed between Reading and Paddington remained throughout the 90's.     

Generally there hasn't been much, if any, time allowed between Reading and Paddington.  The re-signalling was completed in 1993 if I remember correctly, but had no material affect on potential journey times.  Ladbroke Grove in 1999 meant that there was a PSR^▸ (Permanent Speed Restriction) of 50mph as I described in my previous post - again this had very little impact on the potential journey time.  It will be things like 4x Heathrow Express trains and double the service to places like Bristol/Cardiff that means trains don't get the clear runs they used to that has caused any journey time increases.

For comparison, the journey times on fast (non-stop) journey times over the period (on trains leaving Reading between 10:00 and 12:00) are given below:

1974:  Number of trains: 8  Journey times between 35-38 minutes
1984:  Number of trains: 5  Journey times between 29-35 minutes (HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s now introduced on majority of trains)
1990:  Number of trains: 10  Journey times between 29-33 minutes
1995:  Number of trains: 8  Journey times between 32-35 minutes
2005:  Number of trains: 12  Journey times between 27-31 minutes
2012:  Number of trains: 8  Journey times between 28-37 minutes

Trains from London since the introduction of HST's has remained constant at 25 minutes (for HST operated non-stop trains) for many years now, though up until the early 90s a few were timed at only 22 minutes.  Again, that's mostly due to ATP^▸ (Automatic Train Protection) restrictions and other trains getting in the way rather than the Paddington resignalling.

Faced with the figures above, I'll question again where you get your figure of 'up to 10 minutes' from, as from that sample the average has remained pretty stable since the introduction of HSTs.  There might be slightly larger discrepancies in the peak though, and the number of trains making stops at Slough (and sometimes Maidenhead/Twyford) has increased over time, especially in the peaks.

[Andy W]

For comparison, the journey times on fast (non-stop) journey times over the period (on trains leaving Reading between 10:00 and 12:00) are given below:

1974:  Number of trains: 8  Journey times between 35-38 minutes
1984:  Number of trains: 5  Journey times between 29-35 minutes (HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s now introduced on majority of trains)
1990:  Number of trains: 10  Journey times between 29-33 minutes
1995:  Number of trains: 8  Journey times between 32-35 minutes
2005:  Number of trains: 12  Journey times between 27-31 minutes
2012:  Number of trains: 8  Journey times between 28-37 minutes

Interesting II,

So why is the variance in times so great now -

1974:  35-38 minutes - variance 3 mins
1984:  29-35 minutes (HST's now introduced on majority of trains) ^ variance 6 mins
1990:  29-33 minutes - variance 4 mins
1995:  32-35 minutes - variance 3 mins
2005:  27-31 minutes - variance 4 mins
2012:  28-37 minutes - variance 9 mins

I understand 1984 (mixed stock) but 2012 9 mins is that a Heathrow Express factor?

[Andy W]

Yesterday I decided to go to London from Pershore rather than driving to Warwick Parkway.

I took the 5:46 out returning on the 12:21.

Observations:-

On the outbound to compare it with the Cathedrals Express I used to take in days past

1) It had additional stops at Pershore (I used to get on at Evesham), Hanborough, Didcot & Oxford so semi-fast now rather than Express
2) The environment is far worse since the refurbishment. Interestingly there were only 2 people in the carriage when I boarded - both in seats with seats facing around a table, far preferable to sitting in a tombstone (IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion))
3) Despite the fact that I cannot buy a ticket at Pershore my debit card was refused on the train. My account has good funds in it so not got a clue why. Fortunately I had cash.

The return was in a Turbo - 3+2 suburban stock is not fit for purpose for a 2+ hour trip - fine for short run stoppers.

At Evesham we arrived at 14:12 and departed at 14:26 after the up service cleared the single line.
The up service was due at 14:26 and arrived at 14:23 (early).

I timed the Evesham - Pershore leg & it is 5 mins not the 8 timetabled which is why the up service arrived early, so there is padding on each leg not just when sitting in the station.

More importantly we sat in Evesham for 14 minutes 'padding' however if the up service had been late then we would have been held even longer until the single line had cleared. Therefore the padding has little value in terms of minisising the effects of late running on the single line & there is padding, padding and more padding. No wonder they call the terminus Paddington!

Wholly unimpressed & Chiltern can rest assured I will not dessert them again.

[IndustryInsider]

So why is the variance in times so great now -

1974:  35-38 minutes - variance 3 mins
1984:  29-35 minutes (HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s now introduced on majority of trains) ^ variance 6 mins
1990:  29-33 minutes - variance 4 mins
1995:  32-35 minutes - variance 3 mins
2005:  27-31 minutes - variance 4 mins
2012:  28-37 minutes - variance 9 mins

I understand 1984 (mixed stock) but 2012 9 mins is that a Heathrow Express factor?

The trains in the current timetable during that period now take the following: 29, 38, 29, 29, 30, 35, 28 and 30 minutes (sorry for slight mistake in previous post as quickest is 29 minutes not 28 as I quoted).  The two slower ones are the two services from Bedwyn, both Turbo operated.  They do conflict slightly at Airport Junction with an 'up' HEx service (xx:27 from Heathrow), and because they're Turbos they'd obviously take a little longer than a HST anyway.  So, the 35-38 minutes is made up of about 2-3 minutes of pathing allowances and 4-5 minutes of padding, whereas the HST services just have the 4-5 minutes of padding - and that appears to have been the case in all the timetables I've got, give or take a minute or two, since HSTs were introduced.

Back in 2005 the same Bedwyn Turbo services typically left Reading at xx:51 (though they didn't run as often) which was a better path with very little padding (2-3 minutes) hence they only took 31 minutes.  Prior to 2005 the services from Bedwyn ran relief line from Reading with extra stops at Maidenhead, Slough and Ealing Broadway (and in later years Hayes & Southall as well), so took much longer.

For comparisons sake, if you get a clear run from Reading to Paddington, there's no speed restrictions, and the train is running well you can do the journey in a Turbo in around 28m 30s, that reduces in a HST to about 24 minutes, with a further reduction of about 30 seconds in a Class 180.

No wonder they call the terminus Paddington!

Brilliant!   

[Andy W]

Excellent explanation ............. thanks II

[IndustryInsider]

I took the 5:46 out returning on the 12:21.

The return was in a Turbo - 3+2 suburban stock is not fit for purpose for a 2+ hour trip - fine for short run stoppers.

Of course the return should be a Class 180, though that diagram is the first to go if they are short.  Best day of the week today with three Class 180 diagrams covered properly, though the 12:21ex PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) diagram is the one that's been sacrificed.  So, rather than 4 diagrams a day, this week they've actually covered 2, 1, 2, 2, and 3 from Mon-Fri.  I'll report back next week to let you know if availability has improved.  Driver training is still well behind with, at a guess, over a third of the drivers who should drive them so far trained and with the busy run up to Christmas starting I can't see any more being released for training until the new year. 

[stebbo]

The reply about cautious driving makes me recall a trip from Oxford to London (non-stop of course) in November 1976. The Cathedrals Express, with class 50 haulage, was reported 20 minutes late from Shrub Hill - so, as I was going for a job interview, I got nervous, then 15 minutes down at Moreton, 10 minutes late from Charlbury arriving some 6 minutes late at Oxford. Needn't have worried as we were 4 minutes early at Paddington - except when sitting with a cup of hot coffee through Reading worrying about my suit and clean tie as the driver just piled on the power and took it flat out at 100 mph. Never seen coffee vibrate so much

Ah the joys of reminiscing. Reminds me of a class 45 - oddly - on a Sunday run Oxford to Paddington in about 1978 frightening the life out of an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) as we came off the curve at Didcot and flew past this startled HST driver south of the station, well for a minute ot two until the HST got really cranked up.

[Richard Fairhurst]

It will be things like 4x Heathrow Express trains and double the service to places like Bristol/Cardiff that means trains don't get the clear runs they used to that has caused any journey time increases.

That's exactly my recollection (as a regular commuter on that part of the line back then): HEx was what made the biggest difference to journey times out of Paddington.

Trains from London since the introduction of HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s has remained constant at 25 minutes (for HST operated non-stop trains) for many years now, though up until the early 90s a few were timed at only 22 minutes.

And even as late as 1998 it was very common for HSTs to do Paddington to Reading in 22 minutes. I was commuting from London to Wokingham at the time, catching the 0800 to Swansea every morning, and it would often arrive in enough time for me to sprint down Platform 4 from Carriage A and catch the 0824 SWT^▸ (South West Trains) service from 4a.

[RodC]

Apologies to Industryinsider for not having earlier responded to his query as to where I got "an additional 10 minutes" from. The answer is that regrettably I do not have any evidence, or at least, I do not readily have to hand, the timetable data which he clearly has. I'm afraid that I was relying on my memory - of commuting from Kingham to Paddington in the late 80's/early 90's on the 7:27am, which used to arrive into Paddington at 8:44. This would enable me to get to my desk in Victoria by 9am, thanks to the completely manic 16 and 36 Routemaster drivers from Peckham Garage who would invariably take the Hyde Park Corner roundabout on two wheels, flat out! 

I appreciate that my recollection would probably not qualify as firm evidence, but my case is that following the Paddington re-signalling, the Oxford to London timings never recovered. For example, the scheduled timing from Kingham to Paddington now seems to allow 1 hour, 32 minutes, whereas at the time that I was referring to (above), it was 1 hour, 17 minutes. Admittedly, there is now an additional stop at Hanboro', but does this require an additional 15 minutes on the journey time?

Finally, a couple of quick additional points: first, the fascinating extract of the 60's Hereford & Worcester to Paddington timetable, for which many thanks, reminded me of the very welcome introduction of the M-i-M stop in the late 60's, which meant that I could start my working day driving 10 miles in the right direction, rather than 6 miles away from my intended destination. But I don't know whether many people will remember that the Moreton stop enabled the two Class 31's (necessary to get the train up Campden Bank) to be uncoupled there and the leading locomotive to be taken off, ready to return to Worcester?

Secondly, one or two contributors have quoted the best timings of the early HST^▸ (High Speed Train) services from Paddington to Reading as being 22 minutes. The best timings were in fact, 19 minutes. In 1978, it was possible to arrive at Reading less than 20 minutes after departure from Paddington, nip across to Platform 8 and catch a local service to Oxford.

Finally, may I say how much I enjoyed reading stebbo's tale of a hair-raising experience behind a Class 50. As I said in my previous post, these locomotives were incredibly quick (I recall a railwayman telling me at the time that they were capable of 125mph, but had to be restricted to 100mph because of the coaching stock), but nevertheless, I remember keeping myself amused by putting the stop-watch on the mile-posts on Class 50-hauled services from time to time and certainly some of the drivers would have been in trouble if their exuberance had been detected by the British Rail management.  Those were the days!                 

[IndustryInsider]

Secondly, one or two contributors have quoted the best timings of the early HST^▸ (High Speed Train) services from Paddington to Reading as being 22 minutes. The best timings were in fact, 19 minutes. In 1978, it was possible to arrive at Reading less than 20 minutes after departure from Paddington, nip across to Platform 8 and catch a local service to Oxford.

For those interested in timings the Railway Performance Society is a great resource as its members have been logging timings for many decades.  Their fastest logged start/stop time from Paddington to Reading is 20 minutes 46 seconds, by a HST back in 1988.  That's not to say that 19 minutes wasn't ever achieved, but that's the fastest time they've recorded.

As I said, with the introduction of ATP^▸ (Automatic Train Protection) and safer defensive driving techniques, and more restrictive speeds out of Paddington and on the approach to Reading, that sort of time won't be possible today, but they have logged 22 minutes 12 seconds by a Class 180 in 2006, which is just about the best you could do nowadays - and would require an Adelante that goes like stink!

The section on their website with Great Western timings can be viewed here:  http://www.railperf.org.uk/fast/Great_Western-CrossCountry.pdf, oh and the Chiltern page is also interesting as many of the old timings have been smashed thanks to the 'Mainline' upgrade work:  http://www.railperf.org.uk/fast/Chiltern.pdf

[Nottage_Halt]

But I don't know whether many people will remember that the Moreton stop enabled the two Class 31's (necessary to get the train up Campden Bank) to be uncoupled there and the leading locomotive to be taken off, ready to return to Worcester?
...
Those were the days!                 

I "took-on" as a signalman at Moreton in Marsh in 1974 and remember well the feeble Cl.31s which were the alleged replacements for the Cl, 35 Hymeks on the Worcester road.  The two early morning Hereford to London trains (about 5:55 from and 7:00 from Hereford if I remember) were usually 8 or 9 Mk1 coaches, often with a van up front returning to Paddington off the 01:10 down News.  The usual motive power was a Cl.47 Brush Type 4, which could keep time.  The Cl.31s were useless and could not keep time on anything more than 6 Mk 1s with slacker timings.

So, when we knew one or both of the early fast trains had a Cl.31, the usual thing was to negotiate with the crew of Cl.31 on the 05:45 Worcester to Long Marston trip that they'd leave their wagons either at Evesham, Honeybourne or Moreton and be available to assist the express(es) up Campden bank.  The bobbies would sort this out for themselves and tell control about it afterwards.

Those mornings at Moreton could get very busy, even with the limited infrastucture.  When the above happened you could have an express passenger train on the Up, a 3 car DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) on the Down, a bubblecar standing in the Up siding and a Cl.31 about, sometimes with a string of vanfits in the Down Refuge waiting to be shunted into the Goods Shed road at the same time.  Good times.

Nick

[stebbo]

A couple of friends and I once thought up some imaginary names for class 31s (based on class 50 names) - Timorous, Feeble, Useless, Sparrow, Splutterer...... You get the drift.

[RodC]

Oh dear!  I can see from the responses that I'm going to get into trouble from either (a) all contributors to this site or (b) past employees of the  railway network.

So far as (a) is concerned, I don't want to be accused of turning the site into "All our Yesterdays", but I don't suppose that many "customers"will believe me when I say that in the late 1970's the Restuarant Car staff in their splendid uniforms used to walk down to the far (2ndClass) end of the Worcester to Paddington train (Cathedrals Express, or the service an hour earlier, can't remember which) dispensing coffee from a silver coffee pot and hot milk jug into proper cups and saucers and (b), I used to be, on most days, the one and only passenger on the M-i-M to Oxford "bubblecar" that your contributor "Nick" referred to.  I am very embarrassed to admit that I was very often late for that train and used to career into the station car park at the very last minute. If I was lucky, the guard used to delay leaving until after the appointed time (7:54?) and if I was very lucky, he would get the driver to set back, if he saw me racing into the car park, even if the train was half-way out-of-the bay platform          

[stebbo]

It's called service when "passengers" were "passengers" not "customers" ie "cattle".

To add to the reminiscences, I recall driving from Hereford to Bristol Parkway one fine spring morning in 1991 (partly because I needed to be in London before the first Hereford direct train and partly because in those days you needed 2,500 business miles per year on a company car to avoid a tax hit and it was less built up round Parkway then) to catch the 0700. I had a good run - at least the tyres I noticed that the tyres smelt good - and I arrived in the car park at 0626 or thereabouts. I made the 0630 with the guard pulling me in to the guards van at the back of the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) as it started moving. None of this let's lock the doors early.

Good advert for VW Passats as well.