London Underground - the Circle Line (or not, according to the Guardian)

[whole diary]

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the Guardian:

Unthinkable? Bring back the Circle line

Since 2009, trains no longer do that useful loop, so passengers have to change at Edgware Road

We would not lightly provoke those readers who are vigilant for any hint of London bias in this proudly One Nation newspaper. Yet, the upcoming 150th anniversary of the capital city's underground railway is of more than parochial importance. The date marks the start of the service from Paddington to Farringdon in 1863. It also marks the start of modern urban rapid transit itself. Londoners have an intense relationship with the underground. They love it but are exasperated by it ^ especially when it goes on strike. There was an example of their love when seats went on sale for January's commemorative steam trip from Earl's Court to Moorgate. Even at ^180 each, the tickets sold out, as Simon Jenkins put it, faster than a Stones concert ^ perhaps to some of the same people. Yet there is exasperation in the fact that Transport for London has unilaterally done away with the Circle line service, which had ringed the heart of the capital ever since 1884. Since 2009, trains no longer do that useful loop; now they run back and forth between Edgware Road and Hammersmith. So, passengers have to change at Edgware Road, often dragging luggage they may have brought from Heathrow via the Heathrow Express up and over a Victorian footbridge to await, with negligible public information, another train. History and passengers should demand the return of the Circle line. Either that, or rename it the Not the Circle Any More line, which is what it now is.

[ellendune]

From the Guardian:

Unthinkable? Bring back the Circle line

Since 2009, trains no longer do that useful loop, so passengers have to change at Edgware Road

We would not lightly provoke those readers who are vigilant for any hint of London bias in this proudly One Nation newspaper. Yet, the upcoming 150th anniversary of the capital city's underground railway is of more than parochial importance. The date marks the start of the service from Paddington to Farringdon in 1863. It also marks the start of modern urban rapid transit itself. Londoners have an intense relationship with the underground. They love it but are exasperated by it ^ especially when it goes on strike. There was an example of their love when seats went on sale for January's commemorative steam trip from Earl's Court to Moorgate. Even at ^180 each, the tickets sold out, as Simon Jenkins put it, faster than a Stones concert ^ perhaps to some of the same people. Yet there is exasperation in the fact that Transport for London has unilaterally done away with the Circle line service, which had ringed the heart of the capital ever since 1884. Since 2009, trains no longer do that useful loop; now they run back and forth between Edgware Road and Hammersmith. So, passengers have to change at Edgware Road, often dragging luggage they may have brought from Heathrow via the Heathrow Express up and over a Victorian footbridge to await, with negligible public information, another train. History and passengers should demand the return of the Circle line. Either that, or rename it the Not the Circle Any More line, which is what it now is.

If they came from Heathrow via Paddington then they went to the wrong end of Paddington Station.  If they used the Piccadilly line how did they end up at Edgeware Road?

[johoare]

I do agree that the story is a little incorrect... However I do think the circle line does need re-instating.. If I want to get from Paddington to South Kensington, which I do daily, it can often be a ten or 15 minute wait for a circle line.. I'm not sure if it used to be that bad however... But the fact they start at Edgware road/Hammersmith rather than circulating round suggests to me (and experience shows) that there can now potentially be bigger gaps in the service..

I end up getting the bus each day as it takes the same time each day generally... I definitely don't have to quite often wait 15 minutes for a bus..

[ellendune]

I do agree that the story is a little incorrect... However I do think the circle line does need re-instating.. If I want to get from Paddington to South Kensington, which I do daily, it can often be a ten or 15 minute wait for a circle line.. I'm not sure if it used to be that bad however... But the fact they start at Edgware road/Hammersmith rather than circulating round suggests to me (and experience shows) that there can now potentially be bigger gaps in the service..

I end up getting the bus each day as it takes the same time each day generally... I definitely don't have to quite often wait 15 minutes for a bus..

If it is only 10 to 15 minutes that is an improvement.  Before, in my experience, the normal was 20 minutes or more.  The planned interval is supposed to be 10 minutes. 

I used to walk to Imperial College in 30 minutes. Much more reliable even than the bus.  and nearly as quick as a tube even if you did not have to wait at all. 

 

[johoare]

I am about 10 mins walk from South Ken towards Sloane Sq which is 40 odd minutes walk from Paddington so bus still beats that as that takes about 30 consistently (including the walk from the bus stop)

Another problem, not created by the "non" circle line, as it has always been the case, is the not knowing which train is coming next at the junctions on the circle line including Paddington (heading away from Edgware road).. If I got to the platform and knew I had a 15 minute wait for example I'd leave and get the bus.. If I knew it were 5 minutes or less I would wait...

[eightf48544]

Inner rail (towards High Street Ken) at Padd was always a problem in that you didn't know how long you had to wait as the train was only displayed leaving Edgware Road and almost in the station.

[Southern Stag]

I do agree that the story is a little incorrect... However I do think the circle line does need re-instating.. If I want to get from Paddington to South Kensington, which I do daily, it can often be a ten or 15 minute wait for a circle line.. I'm not sure if it used to be that bad however... But the fact they start at Edgware road/Hammersmith rather than circulating round suggests to me (and experience shows) that there can now potentially be bigger gaps in the service..

But generally when there is disruption the service will return back to normal, with the correct roughly ten minutely service, quicker. Circular services with little recovery time are very hard to return back to normal after disruption because they can't be turned back early, or skip trips out. For journeys from Paddington to Euston/Kings Cross direction I find it's better now, as there is only one place trains run from rather than two previously. Heading to the H+C platforms will always get you the fastest service.

[johoare]

I do agree that the story is a little incorrect... However I do think the circle line does need re-instating.. If I want to get from Paddington to South Kensington, which I do daily, it can often be a ten or 15 minute wait for a circle line.. I'm not sure if it used to be that bad however... But the fact they start at Edgware road/Hammersmith rather than circulating round suggests to me (and experience shows) that there can now potentially be bigger gaps in the service..

But generally when there is disruption the service will return back to normal, with the correct roughly ten minutely service, quicker. Circular services with little recovery time are very hard to return back to normal after disruption because they can't be turned back early, or skip trips out. For journeys from Paddington to Euston/Kings Cross direction I find it's better now, as there is only one place trains run from rather than two previously. Heading to the H+C platforms will always get you the fastest service.

Although quite a trek and not quite as easy to get to as previously as I found the one time I tried it... :-)

[Southern Stag]

It's certainly a bit of a trek nowadays, you have to walk right round outside and in through the new H+C concourse. Previously just walking past Platforms 12/13/14 on the footbridge was a lot shorter. If you're coming off an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) in Standard Class though there probably isn't much difference in the distance to tube platforms if you use the middle footbridge to access the H+C. If you circulate via the main exits from the platform it does seem a lot further.

[paul7575]

Later in the rebuild there'll be a more direct route reopened via the P12/13/14 footbridge, which will be extended at its north end, although you'll still pass out of the NR^» (Network Rail - home page) paid area and back in through the new LU gate line...

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=8302.msg107070#msg107070

Edit:  Link added to earlier post showing this link for anyone who hadn't seen it already...

Paul

[Electric train]

I think the pan and handle is an improvement on the old circle it does allow better regulation of the service.  The real issues for the circle line services is the fact they are the interloper in to the 2 primary users the Metropolitan Line and the District Line.  The flat junction at Baker St causes problems around the North side as does the Earls Court Triangle on the West and then there is the Aldgate area all these pose conflicts on the Circle services which used to be added to by Edgeware Rd.

When all the signalling, power supply upgrade and new "S7" and "S8" stock is fully in-service on all four lines (Met, Circle, Dist H & C) the circle will be greatly improved especially when ATO^▸ (Automatic Train Operation) is operational

[paul7575]

LU have already provided the statistical proof to back up their decision to run the circle down to Hammersmith. (As someone once said, 'they would say that wouldn't they'.) Although none of the fairly regular 're-introduction proposals' that are typical of the populist London media ever seem to mention the 12 tph service that was achieved on the Hammersmith part of the route. 

In any case, anyone heading for Kings Cross via the Praed St platforms is not following the pretty clear signage around the mainline station, it's not been done without any follow up changes to the information provided. 

But as said earlier the frequency change for those heading to the south side of the circle is trivial - it has only reduced from a fairly unreliable 7 to 6 tph, or 8.5 to 10 mins between trains.  However the end state in 2018 following the resignalling has the frequency of the Circle increased to 8 tph - with the H&C also at 8 tph that gives 16 tph through P15/16.

The TfL^» (Transport for London - about) SSR resignalling report is here: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/04-lines-Proposed-Service-Changes.pdf

This was issued in 2009 prior to the changes. For anyone who's interested it gives the overall rationale and the final frequencies - one subsequent change though is the removal of the weekday Olympia service to reduce conflicts at Earls Court.

Paul

[grahame]

I used to dread the frustration - coming in to Paddington, travelling onwards to King's Cross, or the City, and having to guess whether the next tube would be from the Praed Street platforms or the Hammersmith line ones. Then waiting longer that I felt necessary for the tube.   And that was compounded by the long wait at Edgware Road or Baker Street on Circle line trains, where (without a route end as such) there was a timetables staff change over / recovery time / loo break, with all the hapless commuters rushing to get to the city left standing with door open in a stationary train in the bleak midwinter ...

How things have changed ... with the concentration of all King's Cross services onto the Hammersmith platform, and "Circle" line trains now having their natural break when they've terminated, things got much better.  Teething troubles in the new system meant that there was a new frustration, though - queues and crown control to get onto the tube platform (!) but with the new station entrance on the H&C lines that seems to have been cleared - at the expense of a longer walk.  Glad to hear that the distance will again be shortened in the future.

One remaining issues is queuing to get out through the ticket barriers on the bridge from peak hour arrivals on platforms 2 to 5 - most of an 8 coach train seems to be going through just 2 ticket barriers, with commuters lined up all up the stairs.  Will this issue too be addressed in following stages?

[paul7575]

Yes - there was a mention a while ago in NR^» (Network Rail - home page)'s initial industry plan for CP5^▸ (Control Period 5 - the five year period between 2014 and 2019) of a ^9.4million rebuild of the country end footbridge area, Industry Insider quoted it in the earlier 'Paddington Wow factor' thread here:

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=8302.msg108445#msg108445

Fortunately I think it does also come up in the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)'s CP5 illustrated options document as 'Paddington station passenger capacity improvements,' as well - so that looks good for it actually making the cut...

Paul